Zero Compromise Optic MPCT3 reticle

Dthomas3523

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I’ll write up a bit more on Sunday or so. Besides the obvious circles/dots/grid and ranging lady parts, here’s a pic of the two differences in main windage from mpct1 and mpct2.

While the windage still includes the first .2 mil hash each way, the open area around the dot has increased a little.

Once past the first mil mark each way, the .2 hashes are still same size for .2 and .8 and then the same for .4 and .6, they no longer extend north of the horizontal. .5 hashes have been added throughout which will be on the top of the horizontal.

34011FFF-19EE-4C90-8F20-842124DD6C8A.jpeg
 
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samb300

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@gebhardt02 sold me pretty good on the MPCT3. It does look really good in person. I like the additional hold over reference points, and the center area being a little more open as @Dthomas3523 mentioned above.

For me, the 2 mil mark above horizontal connecting with the ranging funnel (which starts at 3 mil) would be nice for situations where I hold under 2.2 to 2.8 mils. It was also discussed having the vertical “dashed” line that splits the ranging funnel be 0.2 mil dots or something that would facilitate both hold unders and the ranging.

I need to also think about whether or not the funnel would interfere with seeing trace. I didn’t even consider that until I re-read through the thread.
 

Dthomas3523

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@gebhardt02 sold me pretty good on the MPCT3. It does look really good in person. I like the additional hold over reference points, and the center area being a little more open as @Dthomas3523 mentioned above.

For me, the 2 mil mark above horizontal connecting with the ranging funnel (which starts at 3 mil) would be nice for situations where I hold under 2.2 to 2.8 mils. It was also discussed having the vertical “dashed” line that splits the ranging funnel be 0.2 mil dots or something that would facilitate both hold unders and the ranging.

I need to also think about whether or not the funnel would interfere with seeing trace. I didn’t even consider that until I re-read through the thread.
It definitely is a reticle people need to see in person. Night and day difference from paper.

I’ll be ordering one as soon as they are officially available.
 

samb300

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Although I could only look at it indoors, it did feel like you could “see through” the Xmas tree area of the reticle. Not that it was too thin to see, but your eye wasn’t drawn to it as much as it appears in photos.

I’ve been using a G2 Razor EBR2C for 4 years, so my eye is used to the more open center and larger Xmas tree composed of dots.
 

gebhardt02

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@gebhardt02 sold me pretty good on the MPCT3. It does look really good in person. I like the additional hold over reference points, and the center area being a little more open as @Dthomas3523 mentioned above.

For me, the 2 mil mark above horizontal connecting with the ranging funnel (which starts at 3 mil) would be nice for situations where I hold under 2.2 to 2.8 mils. It was also discussed having the vertical “dashed” line that splits the ranging funnel be 0.2 mil dots or something that would facilitate both hold unders and the ranging.

I need to also think about whether or not the funnel would interfere with seeing trace. I didn’t even consider that until I re-read through the thread.
The revision to the funnel was a big topic of conversation for us this week. Still undecided as yet if it'll happen, but we are looking at it.
 

gebhardt02

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What does the revision entail?
Nothing definite at the moment, but modifying the center dashed line to indicate how far above center. So possibly having a point at the bottom at three mils up, another at four mils, last at five mils up.

Again, we aren't positive if that change will make it in yet. The design is already pretty far along the process and pulling it out for this seemingly simple change just adds to the delay and other issues I don't need to get into here.

One other option we are considering is to thin up the center dashed line to help with visibility through the funnel instead of adding additional hold points inside it. The additional hold points inside may actually decrease visibility as that seems to be the primary concern for picking up trace. So thinning the dashed line may be better overall.

We understand that for purely PRS/NRL sport competition this ranging funnel aspect of the design isn't required. We know. But the reticle wasn't built solely for sport, it has application for other shooting situations/people also. Hence higher applicability to a broader customer base. So with that in mind we positioned the funnel at three mils up from center. This puts the top just inside the FOV at Max magnification, so it is as far away from the center as we could get it, but still be usable at 27X.

To reiterate, this isn't replacing our MPCT2, only adding another option for customers to select from. Better selection opportunity for customer preferences. Hopefully this all makes sense.
 

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So mpct3 ret was design for target/competition?
I wonder if this ret can help for hunting?
Yes, of course for target/comps but also fully functional for mil/LE also. Definitely no reason it couldn't be used for hunting. So much more with this reticle design that lends itself well throughout the entire magnification range. The open circles for example really help the whole mil points stand out in dark and cluttered background especially as the magnification is decreased. Add in the illumination, and it can still be functional at the very low end of the mag range.
 
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Dthomas3523

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So, this reticle is what I would say is an ultimate hybrid reticle. It can do most all things well. I’ll list them with explanations:

For those that like to dial and not hold unless absolutely necessary, it has .2 and .5 throughout her horizontal. And the tree with dots and circles all but disappears if you don’t look for it. It’s there if you want to use it for a utility.

For those that mostly hold or when they do hold, want a more precise hold, it has a grid style tree. For those familiar with h59 and AMR reticles, to me it’s a more eye friendly combination of those two. With the vertical dots at every mil in the tree, you can absolutely use this reticle for 100% holds. I’ll probably run a few matches without dialing my turrets just to learn this reticle better.

The ranging part works well if you’re in an environment/job where targets are large enough that a quick and rough range estimation is good enough. I doubt you will hear any real complaints from Mil/le side.

(note: after thinking about it more, I’d probably like to see this moved off to one side. Since the reticle is intended for the every man, moving it to one side or the other would let those worried with trace to be happy and the ranging part still be available. I’d like to see it moved left of center and the vertical crosshairs with .2 taken up. But it’s fine the way it is as reticle revision ain’t easy)

When you see the reticle in person, it really changes minds. On paper all you see is a white background with the circles. In the real world your eye focuses on the actual background and ignores the circles unless you look for them.

Normally when asked for reticle recommendations I ask shooters if they prefer a non tree, a tree, or a grid reticle. And ask them if they prefer to dial or hold mainly. My recommendations are usually:

Regular reticle and almost never hold: mpct1, H2cmr, skmr1, mil-c

Tree as utility: Mpct2, skmr2, ebr2c/7c, mr4

Prefer to hold: H59, tremor3, amr


This is the first reticle I have seen I will likely recommend for any of the above preferences of shooting if $3600 is within their budget.
 

Dthomas3523

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The ranging part could also be moved up higher in the main vertical. In theory, it doesn’t need to be 100% visible at 27x as when as close as 2-400yds, 27x isn’t mandatory.

Would be another way to progress the reticle more into hybrid territory.
 

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So, this reticle is what I would say is an ultimate hybrid reticle. It can do most all things well. I’ll list them with explanations:

For those that like to dial and not hold unless absolutely necessary, it has .2 and .5 throughout her horizontal. And the tree with dots and circles all but disappears if you don’t look for it. It’s there if you want to use it for a utility.

For those that mostly hold or when they do hold, want a more precise hold, it has a grid style tree. For those familiar with h59 and AMR reticles, to me it’s a more eye friendly combination of those two. With the vertical dots at every mil in the tree, you can absolutely use this reticle for 100% holds. I’ll probably run a few matches without dialing my turrets just to learn this reticle better.

The ranging part works well if you’re in an environment/job where targets are large enough that a quick and rough range estimation is good enough. I doubt you will hear any real complaints from Mil/le side.

(note: after thinking about it more, I’d probably like to see this moved off to one side. Since the reticle is intended for the every man, moving it to one side or the other would let those worried with trace to be happy and the ranging part still be available. I’d like to see it moved left of center and the vertical crosshairs with .2 taken up. But it’s fine the way it is as reticle revision ain’t easy)

When you see the reticle in person, it really changes minds. On paper all you see is a white background with the circles. In the real world your eye focuses on the actual background and ignores the circles unless you look for them.

Normally when asked for reticle recommendations I ask shooters if they prefer a non tree, a tree, or a grid reticle. And ask them if they prefer to dial or hold mainly. My recommendations are usually:

Regular reticle and almost never hold: mpct1, H2cmr, skmr1, mil-c

Tree as utility: Mpct2, skmr2, ebr2c/7c, mr4

Prefer to hold: H59, tremor3, amr


This is the first reticle I have seen I will likely recommend for any of the above preferences of shooting if $3600 is within their budget.
I can’t wait until we have these in hand...
 

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@gebhardt02 brought the scope with the MPCT3 to the house a few weeks before Shot. I had set up 28 targets set up between 300 and 900 yards. He wanted to test it in a field environment to make sure the “fatal funnel” worked and that the reticle looked right and felt right.

I had his 4-20 with MPCT2 on my rifle. He would range with the funnel system and I ranged the targets with the .1s in MPCT2. The funnel works very well. Especially for quick ranging.

I got to have some time behind the MPCT3 while he was here at the farm and I do like the reticle. I like the open feel that it has. The funnel is completely up and out of the way. I like the reference at 3 mils down. That was a great addition. I don’t think anyone shooting PRS/ NRL will have a problem using this reticle. The funnel is not in the way what’s so ever.

There was a whole lot of thought that went into this design. I believe it is a great reticle for multidisciplinary uses.

Note: I am not paid by ZCO nor do I own one. I was just doing a favor for Nick and was happy to help. If anyone knows me, they know I’m always game to go ring some steel and this gave me a great excuse to litter the field east of my house with a pile of targets. And if I thought this was a poor idea, I would say so to Nick.
 

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@gebhardt02 brought the scope with the MPCT3 to the house a few weeks before Shot. I had set up 28 targets set up between 300 and 900 yards. He wanted to test it in a field environment to make sure the “fatal funnel” worked and that the reticle looked right and felt right.

I had his 4-20 with MPCT2 on my rifle. He would range with the funnel system and I ranged the targets with the .1s in MPCT2. The funnel works very well. Especially for quick ranging.

I got to have some time behind the MPCT3 while he was here at the farm and I do like the reticle. I like the open feel that it has. The funnel is completely up and out of the way. I like the reference at 3 mils down. That was a great addition. I don’t think anyone shooting PRS/ NRL will have a problem using this reticle. The funnel is not in the way what’s so ever.

There was a whole lot of thought that went into this design. I believe it is a great reticle for multidisciplinary uses.

Note: I am not paid by ZCO nor do I own one. I was just doing a favor for Nick and was happy to help. If anyone knows me, they know I’m always game to go ring some steel and this gave me a great excuse to litter the field east of my house with a pile of targets. And if I thought this was a poor idea, I would say so to Nick.

Thank you for posting your findings! 👍👍
 

Dthomas3523

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Anyone interested near Brownsville, Texas, there is a Zero Compromise 527 MPCT3 demo at Masseys Gunshop for a couple days. Then it will be at the Rifles Only Brawl this weekend and then back to ZCompOptic.

Check it out while it’s down here.

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ZERO COMPROMISE OPTIC is excited to announce a new reticle to our already highly popular MPCT line. The MPCT3 reticle takes several steps forward in reticle design with newly developed features by ZCO.

Please check out the MPCT3 reticle at SHOT Show, booth number 3562.

We have heard the request from numerous shooters across the world for a tree style reticle option utilizing dots instead of solid lines. The dot design has several advantages with less image obstruction being the biggest advantage. Shooters using our MPCT line of reticles have also requested some other modifications which the MPCT3 has incorporated.
Advancements in reticle design include the Fatal Funnel quick ranging concept that was developed over two years ago by our staff. Our quick ranging Fatal Funnel design is the most comprehensive design on the market by being able to provide a direct range readout on four different sized target widths with only one system. These target widths encompass 100% IPSC, 66% IPSC, 50% IPSC, and any other targets with 18, 12, 9, or 6-inch widths.

Other advancements reside in the tree portion of the reticle where we utilize a series of open circles at the whole-mil locations thus speeding discrimination of reticle hold points but keeping the reticle as “open” as possible. No longer are marginally different sized dots the distinguishing factor which can be a strain to the shooters eye.

We have also integrated engraved wind hold values for both 3 mils right and left throughout the tree. These tree reticle designs provide the most advantage when holding for both elevation and wind. By incorporating an engraved 3R and 3L indicating a 3 mil hold either Right or Left, counting dots has nearly become obsolete for a proper wind hold, especially at increased elevation holds. Making an accurate wind hold just became so much faster.

Of course, we have retained all other design parameters from the MPCT line such as the center section and maintaining an uncluttered view down to two mils below center. The all new MPCT3 reticle enhances the ZCO reticle portfolio significantly with enhancements on our current reticle designs and newly developed concepts to make operator usage much easier and faster in the field.
We are taking pre-orders for all models of Zero Compromise Optics right now including deposits for the MPCT3, call us at 916-670-1103 or follow the link here: https://www.cstactical.com/Zero-Compromise-Optic
 
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samb300

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@Dthomas3523 did you end up shooting the MPCT3 at a match last weekend? Maybe I missed an after action report if you did one, but I'm curious how you liked it.
 

Dthomas3523

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@Dthomas3523 did you end up shooting the MPCT3 at a match last weekend? Maybe I missed an after action report if you did one, but I'm curious how you liked it.
I did not shoot it. It’s pretty much the only or one of the only demo models in existence. So while it’s a fully functional model, we didn’t want to take a chance of some incidental damage. It was more of a “check this out in person as it looks way better than the graphic.”

The response was very positive overall. There’s always going to be a few “this ain’t my thing” but overall most everyone either liked or loved it.

Almost no one even noticed the ranging uterus (😎😎) until they looked at the drawing and then went back and looked for it.

I spent a ton of time just staring through it and will spend another day with it before sending it back. I can absolutely say I’ll be running this over the Mpct2.
 
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samb300

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I did not shoot it. It’s pretty much the only or one of the only demo models in existence. So while it’s a fully functional model, we didn’t want to take a chance of some incidental damage. It was more of a “check this out in person as it looks way better than the graphic.”

The response was very positive overall. There’s always going to be a few “this ain’t my thing” but overall most everyone either liked or loved it.

Almost no one even noticed the ranging uterus (😎😎) until they looked at the drawing and then went back and looked for it.

I spent a ton of time just staring through it and will spend another day with it before sending it back. I can absolutely say I’ll be running this over the Mpct2.
Thanks, appreciate the feedback. I liked what I saw at shot, but looking at a wall 50yds away isn't usually the best indicator lol

I still wish it had another 1 to 2 mils of marked vertical stadia, since I like to utilize hold-unders when it makes sense to me. But as long as the funnel doesn't get in the way of seeing trace, I think it's a winner.

@gebhardt02 at SHOT you and I talked about integrating mil marks into the center dashed line of the funnel. Was that considered or implemented into the final design of the MPCT3? The only pictures I've seen so far have the vertical stadia going to 2.0 mils, then the funnel center line starting at 3.0 mils. Thanks!
 

gebhardt02

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Thanks, appreciate the feedback. I liked what I saw at shot, but looking at a wall 50yds away isn't usually the best indicator lol

I still wish it had another 1 to 2 mils of marked vertical stadia, since I like to utilize hold-unders when it makes sense to me. But as long as the funnel doesn't get in the way of seeing trace, I think it's a winner.

@gebhardt02 at SHOT you and I talked about integrating mil marks into the center dashed line of the funnel. Was that considered or implemented into the final design of the MPCT3? The only pictures I've seen so far have the vertical stadia going to 2.0 mils, then the funnel center line starting at 3.0 mils. Thanks!
Those marks didn't, but because we wanted to maintain uniformity throughout the reticle. We had a quite lengthy discussion on how to best implement some of these ideas, new sketches drawn, etc. In the end, we felt minimal changes to increase visibility through it was the best option. Also, anything more would have been enough to pull it from where it already was for getting production reticles, and that would have just led to further wait times that we didn't think we're worthwhile. Sorry.
 
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Dthomas3523

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When I spoke to Jeff Friday, he did not indicate any delays at this time. 🙂
Have a quick question about Spuhr fitment for the 36mm. The 6001 is 1.18” tall. I like the 6002 for the 1.5” height but it’s about an inch longer footprint. Will the 6002 fit properly on a ZC527?
 

Dthomas3523

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Have a quick question about Spuhr fitment for the 36mm. The 6001 is 1.18” tall. I like the 6002 for the 1.5” height but it’s about an inch longer footprint. Will the 6002 fit properly on a ZC527?
Yes. I ran a 6002 for a while.

But zero reason (unless using attachment points) to use spuhr over arc. You can put the rings anywhere you want.
 

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@ZCO, has this Coronavirus outbreak put a halt in your MPCT3 rollouts???

I just thought of this though, once the MPCT3's are released that the other reticles might take a little bit longer to receive due to all hands on deck for the MPCT3. Right now is the best time to grab an MPCT1 or MPCT2 since It will be a slight slowdown on them for a few weeks but nothing terrible :)
 
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