Why do democrats dislike the middle class?

SethB

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You still have not proven that property taxes are required to fund government. We're not going to accept "because I said so"
He's arguing that a tax on land is the least bad tax, since it can't be avoided through indolence and it doesn't effect consumption.

In other words it is the only tax that stands to grow the economy, rather than shrink it, as people that were content to pocket the rents their land generates now have to build things or work the land.
 

SethB

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You and him are idiots who cannot understand that a tax on real property enslaves you to government. I'd rather live in anarchy.
Anarchy is available. There are plenty of places in the world that might suit you better than the United States.
 

E. Bryant

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Don't ever forget both parties are corporations that will put good of party ahead of country.
I believe this is the most important point made so far.

I don't believe that the parties themselves have emotions. They have a mandate to win elections so they can serve their sources of funding. As such, they will try to sway middle-class voters to their side if that wins elections, and then they will try to violate as many promises as possible once elected because the wants and needs of the middle class often do not overlap with the wants and needs of the companies that finance campaigns.

While I like that Trump and the Ryan/McConnell Congress cut my taxes, that pales in comparison to the long-term effects of putting China in its place (assuming that Trump wages war until victory is achieved). We should also note that median income has risen under Trump, reversing a two-decade-long downward trend.

Unfortunately, the tax cut also pales in comparison to the long-term costs of our broken health care system (something that Republicans have promised to fix since 2009 and still haven't done jack-shit). I also fear that future costs of our rapidly-growing national debt - combined with reckless monetary policy - will fuck over my generation and many afterwards to an extent that is barely comprehensible by the typical middle-class voter. I haven't found any optimism in the policies of either party regarding this topic.

Regardless, we should all be happy that Hillary was too stupid and arrogant to bother acknowledging the plight of the middle class, because that miscalculation handed the election to Trump. Here's hoping they blow it again. And here's hoping that Republicans have a better strategy than hoping that their opponents fuck up again.
 

BLEE

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The way I see it, there are three types of Democrats: Elites, Sheep and Leeches. The elites want to rule over all, in a Marxist utopia, supported by the backs of the sheep. The sheep are the working class who want to live the American dream, in the Utopia ruled by the elite. The leeches just want to do nothing and have the same privileges and lifestyle as the sheep. It's a totally bankrupt, immoral, unsustainable system. The Democrats hate the middle class, because they cannot achieve their Marxist, global agenda, with a middle class that is united, against them. The middle class is where the power and wealth really is. Unfortunately, most of the middle class don't really understand this.
 

missed

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Have you seen the intelligence levels of recent graduates? Hell, AOC graduated cum laude from Boston University, and she's about as sharp as a bowling ball.
She graduated full of cum is what she did.

Democrats hate us cause we're not dependent on the government so we're harder to control. So now they just try to control us where they think they can by eroding away our constitutional rights.
 
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Slow Loris

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The way I see it, there are three types of Democrats: Elites, Sheep and Leeches. The elites want to rule over all, in a Marxist utopia, supported by the backs of the sheep. The sheep are the working class who want to live the American dream, in the Utopia ruled by the elite. The leeches just want to do nothing and have the same privileges and lifestyle as the sheep. It's a totally bankrupt, immoral, unsustainable system. The Democrats hate the middle class, because they cannot achieve their Marxist, global agenda, with a middle class that is united, against them. The middle class is where the power and wealth really is. Unfortunately, most of the middle class don't really understand this.
I think more accurately the elites want a form of neo-feudalism. The utopian Socialist stuff is just the elites marketing ploy for the dummies and useful idiots to get them to help break down and oppose the actual systems that would genuinely empower ordinary people like them. The other huge con is the anthropomorphic climate change nonsense. Its another angle to create totalitarian control, and while many of it's adherents are socialists, that's not it ultimate destination by those driving it from the top.
 

quietmike

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OldSalty

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If I understand what you are disagreeing with, I have a question. Where does Microsoft get the money they use to pay taxes?
2 ways primarily to maintain margins.

By increasing the cost of the good or service

And/or

Reducing the cost of producing the good or service. Layoffs, automation, no wage increases, offshoring, lower cost labor h1b, etc.
 

EddieNFL

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2 ways primarily.

By increasing the cost of the good or service

And/or

Reducing the cost of producing the good or service. Layoffs, automation, no wage increases, offshoring, lower cost labor h1b, etc.
The first generates cash, the second increases profit margin. In other words, the cash to pay taxes comes from the customer.
 

Dewey7271

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If I understand what you are disagreeing with, I have a question. Where does Microsoft get the money they use to pay taxes?
I understand your premise. I also don’t disagree with it.
I was making certain some did not assume corporations pay nothing although in a capitalistic economy every tax is ultimately some form of pass through. I.e. corporation hires or pays to have goods made, (worker, if U.S. pays income tax) distributor marks up pays taxes on profit, end user either buys with after tax income or if a business either writes off cost for use or depreciates it.
 
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BLEE

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I think more accurately the elites want a form of neo-feudalism. The utopian Socialist stuff is just the elites marketing ploy for the dummies and useful idiots to get them to help break down and oppose the actual systems that would genuinely empower ordinary people like them. The other huge con is the anthropomorphic climate change nonsense. Its another angle to create totalitarian control, and while many of it's adherents are socialists, that's not it ultimate destination by those driving it from the top.
This is truth.
 

wade2big

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This thread unraveled a bit, LoL.

But the question still somehow remains.

How do democrats reconcile my original question about increasing my taxes but say Trumps tax cut didnt help?
You are trying to understand the left using a sound mind, logic, and reason. These people are crazy, lunatic bastards.

I really don’t think you are looking for a real answer as you already know it. You feel the same as what I wrote above I bet.
 

RyanScott

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I suggested a policy that would destroy the wealth of democratic controlled urban areas and you guys are too busy talking about the size of your balls. This is why the right is losing.

For what it’s worth I know you all don’t realize this but anarchism is not a form of conservatism.
 

Darayavaus

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“The rich are getting richer and the poor poorer —- What is to be done? Uncouple the last carriage, liquidate the rich, take away their wealth and distribute it among the poor. And they start to uncouple the carriages.

”But the spoils are soon spent, and people start to notice inequality again —- again there are rich and poor. So they uncouple the next carriage, and then the next, without end, because absolute equality has still not been achieved.

”Is it really surprising that whenever you get striving for equality and fraternity, the guillotine appears on the scene?

”People attain absolute equality only in the graveyard, and if you want to turn your country into a gigantic graveyard, go ahead, join the socialists. ” - Bukovsky
 

quietmike

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I suggested a policy that would destroy the wealth of democratic controlled urban areas and you guys are too busy talking about the size of your balls. This is why the right is losing.

For what it’s worth I know you all don’t realize this but anarchism is not a form of conservatism.
A return to constitutional principles, such as ending charity at the federal level, would decimate the DNC. Nearly 70% of the entire federal budget goes to entitlement spending.
 

NY700

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So the OP asked for a Democrat’s view. I appreciate all those who are not democrats who chose to answer.
I am a Democrat.
born in NY to a middle class working family on LongIsland who paid more in taxes than most of you could imagine. The property taxes alone were astronomical.

I then went to a four year university in Michigan.Studied, lived worked with and eventually married someone from a small conservative town in northern Michigan. 17 years I lived in Michigan working and living from areas around Detroit to super rural small towns to Uber religious and conservative western Michigan.

I’ve now been in Texas for the last 5 years.

I give you this info be cause context is important.

neither I nor my family have ever regretted taxes. Not once. I make a middle class living. Being in texas I dont have state income tax but I pay higher than average property tax higher than average sales tax and besides gas which is generally below the national average (I commute 100 miles a day to work and drive a Prius as aweekday commuter car and can careless about gas prices) everything else food, water, electricity is higher than the national average. I still don’t care about taxes. Not once! My property taxes have nearly doubled in the last 5 years. My home value has also gone up $80k in those same 5 years.

the own I grew up in, my parents paid nearly $15k a year in property taxes. I also received a world class public school education with more resources available to mein high school than many colleges.

I’m a democrat because I believe:
The minimum a person should get paid for a full days labor 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year should be enough for that person to have 1. A basic home for themselves with utilities (not every cable channel) but the basics (which in this era includes internet)
2. Basic transport. Reliable simple transport (not a new sport car or monster truck, think civic or focus) with gas and insurance. 3. Food. 4. Healthcare (more on that later) 5. The ability to put a reasonable amount aside towards retirement/rainy day fund (not a cruise not a vacation. )

Education benefits all of us. One helped us achieve that which we did in the work is education and it was the public schools that helped this nation thrive. The solution for troubled schools isn’t charter schools and private schools. Good administrators with good teachers make good schools. And teachers should be paid as if they were the people shaping our children’s futures and guiding them because they are! Not paid like overpriced babysitters. When you treat them like professions and pay them like professions you can make demands of them like professionals. And those that can’t do it will leave and there will people plenty of people in the wings waiting to prove they can get the job done.

healthcare: forget about if it’s a right! Healthcare is t in the constitution. The right to own a fire arm is! Healthcare is not! But as a society we all have a vested interest in our team being the healthiest team. And we are not. We are way at the bottom. Sick, fat dieting employees cost companies money. They are a drain on our society. The easiest way to keep people from getting there is keeping them from going if therails to start. Healthcare is too all of our benefits. I work in an industry where I see the backend of medicine insurance and all the shit people think they know about. The fact is the money is there To cover it. What isn't there right now is the infrastructure to support it. As we live longer it is to all our advantages for the working class to be healthy enough to work longer and at a higher level.

social safety nets! Yes! Again it is to all of our advantage to know that when a plant closes or a person gets laid off that there is something to help them along till they can get going again. If not they will generally to turn borrowing what they can’t pay back, drugs crime alcoholism you name it. This does not however mean that people should live years off this nor should it be generational. 6-12 months sure. Depending on your work history and how much you paid into the system sure. 6-12 years no at some point the reality is you are not contributing to our society so figure it out or move on and good luck.

prison reform. Either you are a criminal who is too dangerous to be part of our society or you are a member of our society. This permanent scarlet letter shit is counter productive because we are creating a sub segment of our society nearly guaranteed to never have a job and never being able to pay for themselves. Other countries have us beet big time on this topic and we need to explore what works elsewhere. Either your a full citizen or your not.

immigration: yes. Clean up the system. Streamline it. Some simple facts like it or not we need immigrant labor. Find me a million Americans willing to work as migrant labor on farms for the pay they get...good luck. I look around dallas and love listening to bigots talk about lazy Mexicans while I watch mostly Hispanic crews working on housing developments before the sun comes up till after the sun sets 7 days a week. We could all hope to be that lazy. Illegal immigrants are not a major problem they are a small percentage and mostare college grads skipping on their visa. The fact is republican run farms and factors need immigrants and the same people stoking the fires of nationalism are the ones responsible for most of the hiring of undocumented immigrants!

I can go on for days but I’m a democrat because they talk amour the elitist things like the value of public education and public health crisis and the indentured state of most Americans because of predatory lending and systems designed to trap people.

but just because I’m a democrat it does not mean I am against border security. Absolutely we should know who comes and goes. And no I do not believe in gun control it’s nonsense.
Donald Trump is a life long Democrat from NYC born with millions. He squandered billions of his fathers money and investments and went bankrupt 3 times and only for the fact that CHase so over leveraged themselves on his investments they were forced to forgive 100s of millions in bad depression for fear of going insolvent themselves and ironically he was financially saved by a reality TV show. What I do t understand is a republican who otherwise stood on what they believed to be the high moral ground voting for this man. That I don’t see. Fact is the economy is continuing to rise at about the same rate as it was 6 years ago and will likely run this way for another 2-3 before the next major economic adjustment.
 
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NY700

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So are you a paid poster, possibly working for Bloomberg perchance?
no not even a little. I heard rumor they are paying people with large Facebook Instagram followers like $2k a week. Would t mind that type of cash I could stock up on ammo components and I always wanted an AI and I really miss my TRG42. Sire would be sweet though to cash in on bloomberg money and turnaround and by firearms! But I would probably use it for additional care for my son ABA therapy is not cheap

but in all reality what part of what I posted really falls in line with Bloomberg.

do you know what the difference is between Bloomberg and trump.
Bloomberg admits he is old and doesn’t have good hair

Bloomberg admits he is a democrat

bloomberg admits he is an elitist and says I’ve proven I can build it so let me have control.

trump is the ultimate elitist but panders to groups who 6 years ago he wouldnt have gone near for all the gold plated toilettes in NY. He was the ultimate example of a draft dodger during the Vietnam war then talks about his undying support for veterans. I mean come on.

my father who was a working artist in NYC during the Vietnam war didn’t want to go to war. He avoided the draft by enrolling in more classes until finally they said you’ve had enough school and they drafted him. To his luck he failed the physical between issues with psoriasis and a blown out knee from football they didn’t take him. Trump paid a doctor to make up shit about bone spurs. I mean get real
 
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Threadcutter308

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no not even a little. I heard rumor they are paying people with large Facebook Instagram followers like $2k a week. Would t mind that type of cash I could stock up on ammo components and I always wanted an AI and I really miss my TRG42. Sire would be sweet though to cash in on bloomberg money and turnaround and by firearms! But I would probably use it for additional care for my son ABA therapy is not cheap

but in all reality what part of what I posted really falls in line with Bloomberg.

do you know what the difference is between Bloomberg and trump.
Bloomberg admits he is old and doesn’t have good hair

Bloomberg admits he is a democrat

bloomberg admits he is an elitist and says I’ve proven I can build it so let me have control.

trump is the ultimate elitist but panders to groups who 6 years ago he wouldnt have gone near for all the gold plated toilettes in NY. He was the ultimate example of a draft dodger during the Vietnam war then talks about his undying support for veterans. I mean come on.

my father who was a working artist in NYC during the Vietnam war didn’t want to go to war. He avoided the draft by enrolling in more classes until finally they said you’ve had enough school and they drafted him. To his luck he failed the physical between issues with psoriasis and a blown out knee from football they didn’t take him. Trump paid a doctor to make up shit about bone spurs. I mean get real
1582344871673.png
 

Lapuapalooza

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Thanks for the lengthy post, I can appreciate a good discussion. You do realize that most of your solutions you laid out are for the causes/problems created by Democrats, right? I guess one of my biggest issues is that I don’t like to be robbed. At gun point or by the ballot box. If the Dems made good on their “do good” promises they would be contributing to the strength of our country. Not so much when they tell vets and their families tough luck with your struggles, but we need to give EVERYTHING to the illegals, they just need to show up to get it. Then expect me and every other hard working American they expect us to pay for it, and try to convince me that it’s for the greater good. Give me my money back and I’ll make better use of it for the greater good.
 

Threadcutter308

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Thanks for the lengthy post, I can appreciate a good discussion. You do realize that most of your solutions you laid out are for the causes/problems created by Democrats, right? I guess one of my biggest issues is that I don’t like to be robbed. At gun point or by the ballot box. If the Dems made good on their “do good” promises they would be contributing to the strength of our country. Not so much when they tell vets and their families tough luck with your struggles, but we need to give EVERYTHING to the illegals, they just need to show up to get it. Then expect me and every other hard working American they expect us to pay for it, and try to convince me that it’s for the greater good. Give me my money back and I’ll make better use of it for the greater good.
Agreed, but in addition, stealing my hard earned money and redistributing it to those who don't work/do nothing/leeching off taxpayers. And on top of everything else, dems jump up and down screaming at me, accusing me and telling the whole world that I'm a "racist" and a "nazi" when I object. The end game of the democrats being; buying votes (with my money). democrats have no interest in minorities getting a "leg up"/improving their lot in life. Minorities are nothing but cash crops to democrats. where would their votes come from otherwise ?

Fuck that noise. I'll never vote for a democrat under any circumstances. They've poisoned that well. And, the more of their shit that I'm subjected to, the less sympathy I have for those on the dole. Unfortunate, because I have no doubt there is some percentage of them that are truly needy and that I would otherwise be happy to help out. In other words dems; clean up your act, get your shit together, stop villifying me (and people like me), then we might be able to talk. I'm not going to hold my breath though.
 
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uffduh

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@NY700

Appreciate the long response so only fair to attempt to reply to same with more than just short quips. We'll see whether I can embed comments in your post, I'll put them in italics so I don't trigger you with different colors or boldface. haha



I’m a democrat because I believe:
The minimum a person should get paid for a full days labor 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year should be enough for that person to have 1. A basic home for themselves with utilities (not every cable channel) but the basics (which in this era includes internet) Minimum wage was never meant to be sustainable...you start at the minimum and grow from there through education (books, experience, OJT, I don't care). And no, you can't have internet for watching youtube and posting how sucky your job is on Instagram.
2. Basic transport. Reliable simple transport (not a new sport car or monster truck, think civic or focus) with gas and insurance. Public transport is affordable , if not free. No fucking way am I buying every twat in this country who can walk/cycle/take a bus a $20k plus vehicle...especially a Civic that's made in Canada!
3. Food. You eat what you kill
4. Healthcare (more on that later) Yep, me too
5. The ability to put a reasonable amount aside towards retirement/rainy day fund (not a cruise not a vacation. ) Savings are a function of earnings vs expenses, some will earn more than others and shouldn't be penalized for it.

Education benefits all of us. One helped us achieve that which we did in the work is education and it was the public schools that helped this nation thrive. The solution for troubled schools isn’t charter schools and private schools. Good administrators with good teachers make good schools. And teachers should be paid as if they were the people shaping our children’s futures and guiding them because they are! Not paid like overpriced babysitters. When you treat them like professions and pay them like professions you can make demands of them like professionals. And those that can’t do it will leave and there will people plenty of people in the wings waiting to prove they can get the job done. Get rid of the teachers' unions and tenure, please. The bulk of my property taxes goes to school funding and yet the quality of teachers remains shit. I'll grant you teachers are underpaid (I married one!) but the amount of administrative driftwood kept by the districts eats into the budgets too much. Old and ineffective teachers does to, every other industry has turnover with older laborers replaced with cheaper and more capable staff. I very much like the approach that VT have taken (might be other states too, I don't know) where school fees where credit from taxes can be applied to private/parochial school fees because it creates competition.

healthcare: forget about if it’s a right! Healthcare is t in the constitution. The right to own a fire arm is! Healthcare is not! But as a society we all have a vested interest in our team being the healthiest team. And we are not. We are way at the bottom. Sick, fat dieting employees cost companies money. They are a drain on our society. The easiest way to keep people from getting there is keeping them from going if therails to start. Healthcare is too all of our benefits. I work in an industry where I see the backend of medicine insurance and all the shit people think they know about. The fact is the money is there To cover it. What isn't there right now is the infrastructure to support it. As we live longer it is to all our advantages for the working class to be healthy enough to work longer and at a higher level. There isn't anyone anywhere who can't get healthcare if they need it, the quality or wait times might be debatable, but it's there. As someone who's lived overseas alot and has experience national healthcare, trust me, you don't want it! Even the VA can suck! If vets can get looked after properly using healthcare that was earned and promised to them, you really think the national on a whole has a chance on a government provided healthcare scheme? I remember going to a pharmacy in the UK to buy ibuprofen. The pharmacist suggested I go next door to the clinic and get a prescription because my 4 GBP bottle would be free. I found out that the NHS paid forty pounds for the same bottle! If it's just the 13 odd million that you're referring to without insurance, that's a different debate (though I doubt we'll agree on that one either) but don't fuck with the other 320 million people!

social safety nets! Yes! Again it is to all of our advantage to know that when a plant closes or a person gets laid off that there is something to help them along till they can get going again. If not they will generally to turn borrowing what they can’t pay back, drugs crime alcoholism you name it. This does not however mean that people should live years off this nor should it be generational. 6-12 months sure. Depending on your work history and how much you paid into the system sure. 6-12 years no at some point the reality is you are not contributing to our society so figure it out or move on and good luck. Okay, there's a middle ground on this that we can maybe find, I'm not a heartless cunt, just a cunt. But you have to be making strides to getting feet back under oneself and their have to be hard limits. If you can't work because you've just gotten pregnant for a sixth time, fuck off

prison reform. Either you are a criminal who is too dangerous to be part of our society or you are a member of our society. This permanent scarlet letter shit is counter productive because we are creating a sub segment of our society nearly guaranteed to never have a job and never being able to pay for themselves. Other countries have us beet big time on this topic and we need to explore what works elsewhere. Either your a full citizen or your not. Firstly, a beet is vegetable, beat is what you do to your meat. White there might be room for work programs and whatnot for non-violent offenders and the removal of some rights is too great due to strict classification of crimes or poor representation, the whole justice system is fucked...as is the lack of personal responsibility and acceptance of consequences. The whole no bail and release thing is just plain bullshit.

immigration: yes. Clean up the system. Streamline it. Some simple facts like it or not we need immigrant labor. Find me a million Americans willing to work as migrant labor on farms for the pay they get...good luck. I look around dallas and love listening to bigots talk about lazy Mexicans while I watch mostly Hispanic crews working on housing developments before the sun comes up till after the sun sets 7 days a week. We could all hope to be that lazy. Illegal immigrants are not a major problem they are a small percentage and mostare college grads skipping on their visa. The fact is republican run farms and factors need immigrants and the same people stoking the fires of nationalism are the ones responsible for most of the hiring of undocumented immigrants! Are you going to insist on the same 'living wage' to which voters/citizens are entitled? I think your view contradicts other things you've said and you'll keep the brown man down. Are you giving him free public education? A Civic? (better a VW, they were made in Mexico by 'Lathinos'). Do they get public aid? I have a very strong (positive) opinion of Mexicans who come to the US, even illegally, provided they want to work as they're generally doing it for a short period of time and performing labor that others won't so I don't think in most cases it takes too much out of the pockets of those who are only qualified to do that work....they'd rather collect free shit than wash dishes or mow a lawn. What I don't have anytime for is someone sneaking across the border purely for a paycheck in exchange for a vote. Mind you, alot of this is based on working in restaurants 25 yrs ago so some of it might have changed. I do know that there's a guy called Juan Morales who will have a massive SS account because probably 10 guys used his social security number!

So that's what I think. Welcome to Texas, but please leave if your intention is to turn this state in NY or any other liberal area. ..especially you support violations of 2A happening elsewhere. Oh, and I had to put it in bold to differentiate from your post, it was too difficult to read otherwise.
 
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uffduh

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Agreed, but in addition, stealing my hard earned money, redistributing it to those who don't work/do nothing/leeching off taxpayers. And on top of everything else, dems jump up and down screaming at me, accusing me and telling the whole world that I'm a "racist" and a "nazi" when I object. The end game of the democrats being; buying votes (with my money).

Fuck that noise.
I
I often think that us like minded folk should go find somewhere to civilize and live as we choose....but then I'm reminded that our forefathers did just that for us so why should I have to go to they hassle of moving and that those who disagree should just fuck right off to a socialist or commie country of their choosing.
 

Threadcutter308

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I
I often think that us like minded folk should go find somewhere to civilize and live as we choose....but then I'm reminded that our forefathers did just that for us so why should I have to go to they hassle of moving and that those who disagree should just fuck right off to a socialist or commie country of their choosing.
You racist nazi, you............;)
 

lonegunman762x51

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So the OP asked for a Democrat’s view. I appreciate all those who are not democrats who chose to answer.
I am a Democrat.
born in NY to a middle class working family on LongIsland who paid more in taxes than most of you could imagine. The property taxes alone were astronomical.

I then went to a four year university in Michigan.Studied, lived worked with and eventually married someone from a small conservative town in northern Michigan. 17 years I lived in Michigan working and living from areas around Detroit to super rural small towns to Uber religious and conservative western Michigan.

I’ve now been in Texas for the last 5 years.

I give you this info be cause context is important.

neither I nor my family have ever regretted taxes. Not once. I make a middle class living. Being in texas I dont have state income tax but I pay higher than average property tax higher than average sales tax and besides gas which is generally below the national average (I commute 100 miles a day to work and drive a Prius as aweekday commuter car and can careless about gas prices) everything else food, water, electricity is higher than the national average. I still don’t care about taxes. Not once! My property taxes have nearly doubled in the last 5 years. My home value has also gone up $80k in those same 5 years.

the own I grew up in, my parents paid nearly $15k a year in property taxes. I also received a world class public school education with more resources available to mein high school than many colleges.

I’m a democrat because I believe:
The minimum a person should get paid for a full days labor 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year should be enough for that person to have 1. A basic home for themselves with utilities (not every cable channel) but the basics (which in this era includes internet)
2. Basic transport. Reliable simple transport (not a new sport car or monster truck, think civic or focus) with gas and insurance. 3. Food. 4. Healthcare (more on that later) 5. The ability to put a reasonable amount aside towards retirement/rainy day fund (not a cruise not a vacation. )

Education benefits all of us. One helped us achieve that which we did in the work is education and it was the public schools that helped this nation thrive. The solution for troubled schools isn’t charter schools and private schools. Good administrators with good teachers make good schools. And teachers should be paid as if they were the people shaping our children’s futures and guiding them because they are! Not paid like overpriced babysitters. When you treat them like professions and pay them like professions you can make demands of them like professionals. And those that can’t do it will leave and there will people plenty of people in the wings waiting to prove they can get the job done.

healthcare: forget about if it’s a right! Healthcare is t in the constitution. The right to own a fire arm is! Healthcare is not! But as a society we all have a vested interest in our team being the healthiest team. And we are not. We are way at the bottom. Sick, fat dieting employees cost companies money. They are a drain on our society. The easiest way to keep people from getting there is keeping them from going if therails to start. Healthcare is too all of our benefits. I work in an industry where I see the backend of medicine insurance and all the shit people think they know about. The fact is the money is there To cover it. What isn't there right now is the infrastructure to support it. As we live longer it is to all our advantages for the working class to be healthy enough to work longer and at a higher level.

social safety nets! Yes! Again it is to all of our advantage to know that when a plant closes or a person gets laid off that there is something to help them along till they can get going again. If not they will generally to turn borrowing what they can’t pay back, drugs crime alcoholism you name it. This does not however mean that people should live years off this nor should it be generational. 6-12 months sure. Depending on your work history and how much you paid into the system sure. 6-12 years no at some point the reality is you are not contributing to our society so figure it out or move on and good luck.

prison reform. Either you are a criminal who is too dangerous to be part of our society or you are a member of our society. This permanent scarlet letter shit is counter productive because we are creating a sub segment of our society nearly guaranteed to never have a job and never being able to pay for themselves. Other countries have us beet big time on this topic and we need to explore what works elsewhere. Either your a full citizen or your not.

immigration: yes. Clean up the system. Streamline it. Some simple facts like it or not we need immigrant labor. Find me a million Americans willing to work as migrant labor on farms for the pay they get...good luck. I look around dallas and love listening to bigots talk about lazy Mexicans while I watch mostly Hispanic crews working on housing developments before the sun comes up till after the sun sets 7 days a week. We could all hope to be that lazy. Illegal immigrants are not a major problem they are a small percentage and mostare college grads skipping on their visa. The fact is republican run farms and factors need immigrants and the same people stoking the fires of nationalism are the ones responsible for most of the hiring of undocumented immigrants!

I can go on for days but I’m a democrat because they talk amour the elitist things like the value of public education and public health crisis and the indentured state of most Americans because of predatory lending and systems designed to trap people.

but just because I’m a democrat it does not mean I am against border security. Absolutely we should know who comes and goes. And no I do not believe in gun control it’s nonsense.
Donald Trump is a life long Democrat from NYC born with millions. He squandered billions of his fathers money and investments and went bankrupt 3 times and only for the fact that CHase so over leveraged themselves on his investments they were forced to forgive 100s of millions in bad depression for fear of going insolvent themselves and ironically he was financially saved by a reality TV show. What I do t understand is a republican who otherwise stood on what they believed to be the high moral ground voting for this man. That I don’t see. Fact is the economy is continuing to rise at about the same rate as it was 6 years ago and will likely run this way for another 2-3 before the next major economic adjustment.

Your parents paid stupid high property taxes and you received a "world class" education that didn't include a single class on grammar, composition or writing.

As a Republican, I challenge you to find a single person living in America today who works 40 hrs a week, 50 weeks a year and cannot afford a basic home, utilities, healthcare, food, clothing, a small IRA and transportation. I do not doubt for an instant you will fail and when you do, you will add caveats to explain away the drugs, alcohol, tatts, gambling, pay-per-view, parties and garbage they wasted their money on.


Speaking of education. The average teacher works about 160 days a year and makes more than the average non-teacher. The average teacher rarely works 5 days a week for more than three weeks without a holiday. The average teacher gets 4-5 days for Thanksgiving, two weeks off for Christmas, a week off at the end of March and if they can struggle thru until June 15th, they get 12 weeks off to relax. They are paid professionals, every damned one of them and yet they have failed to improve a single test score in the last 50 years. Graduation rates are flat for decades now. Kids today are practically retarded when they graduate high school. They know almost nothing about civics or history, their physical condition is garbage, they have no work ethic and for the most part have been unaccountable for their actions. Adulthood confounds them.

A "social safety net" has turned into a hammock for the sick, lame and lazy. In some homes there are three generations of trash people who have never held a full time job and never plan too. These dregs do not care about healthcare as they have never paid a dime anyway. Under Democrat leadership, the mere idea that people should be encouraged to work and support themselves provokes rage.

Healthcare is not a right, especially for people in our country illegally. Like everything else on earth if people are allowed to use healthcare without responsibility, the costs spiral out of control and the quality drops dangerously. People value something they pay for or invest in, that is a fucking fact of life champ. Everyone should have to pay something or do something to earn "free" healthcare.

Trump worked hard and got prison reform done. Try watching something other than CNN.

Trump is getting immigration under control. Again stop watching CNN.

Trump has managed to get black and minority unemployment to historic lows, the exact opposite of an Obama accomplishment.

Trump has received dozens of awards from foundations belonging to Muhammad Ali and several Jewish groups, so much for the "racist" crap.

Trump was and still is for all practical purposes a Democrat and you hate him, you despise his pride in America and you go nuts when he does something Democrats have only paid lip service too over the last 50 years.............................like prison reform.

So here we are, you are far left of Trump and you called him a Democrat. That means you are a communist.

AND, you cannot spell firearm. So I guess you are just another paid leftist shill out here on a gun board spreading your bullshit.

PLEASE, take a moment and explain why voter ID laws are bad? Do you really think black people cannot find the driver's license office? I'm a Republican and I bet you money black people are smart enough to have ID. Why? Because without ID they are not allowed in a DNC meeting.
 
Last edited:

uffduh

Private
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Oct 1, 2017
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651
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Your parents paid stupid high property taxes and you received a "world class" education that didn't include a single class on grammar, composition or writing.

As a Republican, I challenge you to find a single person living in America today who works 40 hrs a week, 50 weeks a year and cannot afford a basic home, utilities, healthcare, food, clothing, a small IRA and transportation. I do not doubt for an instant you will fail and when you do, you will add caveats to explain away the drugs, alcohol, tatts, gambling, pay-per-view, parties and garbage they wasted their money on.


Speaking of education. The average teacher works about 160 days a year and makes more than the average non-teacher. The average teacher rarely works 5 days a week for more than three weeks without a holiday. The average teacher gets 4-5 days for Thanksgiving, two weeks off for Christmas, a week off at the end of March and if they can struggle thru until June 15th, they get 12 weeks off to relax. They are paid professionals, every damned one of them and yet they have failed to improve a single score in the last 50 years. Kids today are practically retarded when they graduate high school. They know almost nothing about civics or history, their physical condition is garbage, they have no work ethic and for the most part have been unaccountable for their actions. Adulthood confounds them.

A "social safety net" has turned into a hammock for the sick, lame and lazy. In some homes there are three generations of trash people who have never held a full time job and never plan too. These dregs do not care about healthcare as they have never paid a dime anyway. Under Democrat leadership, the mere idea that people should be encouraged to work and support themselves provokes rage.


Healthcare is not a right, especially for people in our country illegally. Like everything else on earth if people are allowed to use healthcare without responsibility, the costs spiral out of control and the quality drops dangerously. People value something they pay for or invest in, that is a fucking fact of life champ. Everyone should have to pay something or do something to earn "free" healthcare.

Trump worked hard and got prison reform done. Try watching something other than CNN.

Trump is getting immigration under control. Again stop watching CNN.

Trump was and still is for all practical purposes a Democrat and you hate him, you despise his pride in America and you go nuts when he does something Democrats have only paid lip service too over the last 50 years.............................like prison reform.

So here we are, you are far left of Trump and you called him a Democrat. That means you are a communist.

AND, you cannot spell firearm. So I guess you are just another paid leftist shill out here on a gun board spreading your bullshit.

PLEASE, take a moment and explain why voter ID laws are bad? Do you really think black people cannot find the driver's license office? I'm a Republican and I bet you money black people are smart enough to have ID. Why? Because without ID they are not allowed in a DNC meeting.
Please don't pick apart my rebuttal to NP700, I wrote it from an iphone. My errors in spelling and/or grammar shouldn't reflect negatively on the public school education I received! :)
 

lonegunman762x51

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Apr 8, 2011
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Please don't pick apart my rebuttal to NP700, I wrote it from an iphone. My errors in spelling and/or grammar shouldn't reflect negatively on the public school education I received! :)
Sorry I got you in the crossfire. I'd love for one of the mysterious gun owning leftists spouting off to explain why they hate Trump. Where is NP700 when it's time to explain his twaddle?

Most of what they spout is lies, easily rebutted. Once rebuffed in the slightest way they simply crawl back under their rock. As a military veteran, I'd like to be treated with the respect and adoration the average Bernie bot treats an illegal immigrant or convicted felon. Why won't they treat a veteran as well as they treat a criminal?
 

uffduh

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Oct 1, 2017
635
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Sorry I got you in the crossfire. I'd love for one of the mysterious gun owning leftists spouting off to explain why they hate Trump. Where is NP700 when it's time to explain his twaddle?

Most of what they spout is lies, easily rebutted. Once rebuffed in the slightest way they simply crawl back under their rock. As a military veteran, I'd like to be treated with the respect and adoration the average Bernie bot treats an illegal immigrant or convicted felon. Why won't they treat a veteran as well as they treat a criminal?
No apology required! I’m with ya!

As to your question of why an illegal is more important than a vet, I can only answer that it’s down to maths...they’re unlikely to get your vote and mine. My dad and I have the same discussion with my siblings. My brother’s a lost cause because his wife worked for NPR and other liberal causes, my sisters are feninazis and have found a small grain of something they like so they vote the ticket but ignore the bigger picture. The Bernie supporter won’t be swayed, best to focus on those who can.
 

Slow Loris

Private
Minuteman
Sep 21, 2019
45
89
24
So the OP asked for a Democrat’s view. I appreciate all those who are not democrats who chose to answer.
I am a Democrat.
[...]
I assume by declaring yourself a Democrat you'll be supporting their candidate in the the 2020 elections. I'm curious who you want for President? Any members of the current clown show? Hillary? Do you think any of those candidates actually support the Constitution and Bill of Rights as written? Do you actually support the Bill of Rights?
 

uffduh

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Oct 1, 2017
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I assume by declaring yourself a Democrat you'll be supporting their candidate in the the 2020 elections. I'm curious who you want for President? Any members of the current clown show? Hillary? Do you think any of those candidates actually support the Constitution and Bill of Rights as written? Do you actually support the Bill of Rights?
I think we’ll get the same sound from.l @NY700 as we did from the Bloomberg ad where he stumped all the debate contestants over the question about building a business...crickets.
 

acudaowner

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Dec 26, 2018
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I feel like its because lazy people are easy to control , and manipulate like little monkeys people waist there life away working for the man in the company store bringing back what ever they get to the man playing the organ then give away there hard earned money at the end of each month just to start the whole rat race over again every month till they die . rats are fun to watch in a maze trying to find a piece of cheese that is not even there ... rat or little monkeys either one works and either the organ player or the company store fits for the government controlling the lives of its people with laws to make that life harder keeping the rat or monkey working for a crust of bread .
 
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quietmike

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So the OP asked for a Democrat’s view. I appreciate all those who are not democrats who chose to answer.
I am a Democrat.
born in NY to a middle class working family on LongIsland who paid more in taxes than most of you could imagine. The property taxes alone were astronomical.

I then went to a four year university in Michigan.Studied, lived worked with and eventually married someone from a small conservative town in northern Michigan. 17 years I lived in Michigan working and living from areas around Detroit to super rural small towns to Uber religious and conservative western Michigan.

I’ve now been in Texas for the last 5 years.

I give you this info be cause context is important.

neither I nor my family have ever regretted taxes. Not once. I make a middle class living. Being in texas I dont have state income tax but I pay higher than average property tax higher than average sales tax and besides gas which is generally below the national average (I commute 100 miles a day to work and drive a Prius as aweekday commuter car and can careless about gas prices) everything else food, water, electricity is higher than the national average. I still don’t care about taxes. Not once! My property taxes have nearly doubled in the last 5 years. My home value has also gone up $80k in those same 5 years.

the own I grew up in, my parents paid nearly $15k a year in property taxes. I also received a world class public school education with more resources available to mein high school than many colleges.

I’m a democrat because I believe:
The minimum a person should get paid for a full days labor 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year should be enough for that person to have 1. A basic home for themselves with utilities (not every cable channel) but the basics (which in this era includes internet)
2. Basic transport. Reliable simple transport (not a new sport car or monster truck, think civic or focus) with gas and insurance. 3. Food. 4. Healthcare (more on that later) 5. The ability to put a reasonable amount aside towards retirement/rainy day fund (not a cruise not a vacation. )

Education benefits all of us. One helped us achieve that which we did in the work is education and it was the public schools that helped this nation thrive. The solution for troubled schools isn’t charter schools and private schools. Good administrators with good teachers make good schools. And teachers should be paid as if they were the people shaping our children’s futures and guiding them because they are! Not paid like overpriced babysitters. When you treat them like professions and pay them like professions you can make demands of them like professionals. And those that can’t do it will leave and there will people plenty of people in the wings waiting to prove they can get the job done.

healthcare: forget about if it’s a right! Healthcare is t in the constitution. The right to own a fire arm is! Healthcare is not! But as a society we all have a vested interest in our team being the healthiest team. And we are not. We are way at the bottom. Sick, fat dieting employees cost companies money. They are a drain on our society. The easiest way to keep people from getting there is keeping them from going if therails to start. Healthcare is too all of our benefits. I work in an industry where I see the backend of medicine insurance and all the shit people think they know about. The fact is the money is there To cover it. What isn't there right now is the infrastructure to support it. As we live longer it is to all our advantages for the working class to be healthy enough to work longer and at a higher level.

social safety nets! Yes! Again it is to all of our advantage to know that when a plant closes or a person gets laid off that there is something to help them along till they can get going again. If not they will generally to turn borrowing what they can’t pay back, drugs crime alcoholism you name it. This does not however mean that people should live years off this nor should it be generational. 6-12 months sure. Depending on your work history and how much you paid into the system sure. 6-12 years no at some point the reality is you are not contributing to our society so figure it out or move on and good luck.

prison reform. Either you are a criminal who is too dangerous to be part of our society or you are a member of our society. This permanent scarlet letter shit is counter productive because we are creating a sub segment of our society nearly guaranteed to never have a job and never being able to pay for themselves. Other countries have us beet big time on this topic and we need to explore what works elsewhere. Either your a full citizen or your not.

immigration: yes. Clean up the system. Streamline it. Some simple facts like it or not we need immigrant labor. Find me a million Americans willing to work as migrant labor on farms for the pay they get...good luck. I look around dallas and love listening to bigots talk about lazy Mexicans while I watch mostly Hispanic crews working on housing developments before the sun comes up till after the sun sets 7 days a week. We could all hope to be that lazy. Illegal immigrants are not a major problem they are a small percentage and mostare college grads skipping on their visa. The fact is republican run farms and factors need immigrants and the same people stoking the fires of nationalism are the ones responsible for most of the hiring of undocumented immigrants!

I can go on for days but I’m a democrat because they talk amour the elitist things like the value of public education and public health crisis and the indentured state of most Americans because of predatory lending and systems designed to trap people.

but just because I’m a democrat it does not mean I am against border security. Absolutely we should know who comes and goes. And no I do not believe in gun control it’s nonsense.
Donald Trump is a life long Democrat from NYC born with millions. He squandered billions of his fathers money and investments and went bankrupt 3 times and only for the fact that CHase so over leveraged themselves on his investments they were forced to forgive 100s of millions in bad depression for fear of going insolvent themselves and ironically he was financially saved by a reality TV show. What I do t understand is a republican who otherwise stood on what they believed to be the high moral ground voting for this man. That I don’t see. Fact is the economy is continuing to rise at about the same rate as it was 6 years ago and will likely run this way for another 2-3 before the next major economic adjustment.
Wages:
I could tap a pencil on my desk, rhythmically, but that doesn't provide value to anyone, so why should I get a "living wage" to do it?
If the zenith of your life skill is dropping potatoes in hot oil and handing them to a car through a hole in the wall, you will be paid accordingly. Don't like it, improve yourself.

Healthcare:

The overwhelming majority of healthcare problems are lifestyle related. You're 5'4 280# with type 2 diabetes? There's thousands of miles of taxpayer funded roads out there. Unass the couch and go jogging.

Social safety nets:
If you can't run your life, give power of attorney to a more responsible person or join a group home where the most stressful thing you'll do is play board games or maybe crochet a potholder.

With that said, no part of the free market prevents anyone from supporting any charity they choose, so what part of taking money out a bank account and giving it to someone else is so confusing they need someone from government to intervene and help them figure it out?
Claiming benevolence while using other people's money is just another freebie.
 

EddieNFL

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Jan 11, 2006
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As a Republican, I challenge you to find a single person living in America today who works 40 hrs a week, 50 weeks a year and cannot afford a basic home, utilities, healthcare, food, clothing, a small IRA and transportation. I do not doubt for an instant you will fail and when you do, you will add caveats to explain away the drugs, alcohol, tatts, gambling, pay-per-view, parties and garbage they wasted their money on.
You forgot the lastest iphone, 26 inch wheels, sparkly nails, hair extensions, the latest Nike bling, vape pen (or whatever they are called) and the poison to put in them, 70 inch big screen for the section eight...not sure where it ends (I know you are aware of all this, I just had to say it).

Check the owners of "Obama" phones. The majority will also have an iphone/S10/whatever flavor they prefer. Guess who paid for both?

Want to be simultaneously angered and sickened? Get a job as a clerk at, say Walmart on welfare/food stamp day.

Gotta admit, LBJ was right.



PS: Anyone who doesn't care about the price of gas or how high taxes are is a very useful idiot (I don't think he's really an idiot, he's just bragging while trying to defend his Waterloo).