Virginia Intends to Ban Suppressors--Now What Do I Do???

Do-nothing

Private
Minuteman
May 29, 2019
18
21
6
Morning guys and gals. Virginia is now under the complete (jack-boot) control of the democrats after Tuesdays's election. They have made it clear they are going to pass some draconian gun laws among numerous others. Hypothetically, if one owned a suppressor--no trust--what the heck can one do? Virginia is not going to offer any buy-backs. Get rid of if and your assault weapons or become a felon after some period of time. Moving to another state is an option and we are considering that. I intend to support all of our gun rights groups but it is bleak.
 

hlee

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Jul 14, 2012
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Lieut. Colonel Smith, 10th Regiment ’Foot,

Sir,

Having received intelligence, that a quantity of Ammunition, Provisions, Artillery, Tents and small Arms, have been collected at Concord, for the Avowed Purpose of raising and supporting a Rebellion against His Majesty, you will March with a Corps of Grenadiers and Light Infantry, put under your Command, with the utmost expedition and Secrecy to Concord, where you will seize and distroy all Artillery, Ammunition, Provisions, Tents, Small Arms, and all Military Stores whatever. But you will take care that the Soldiers do not plunder the Inhabitants, or hurt private property.

You have a Draught of Concord, on which is marked the Houses, Barns, &c, which contain the above military Stores. You will order a Trunion to be knocked off each Gun, but if its found impracticable on any, they must be spiked, and the Carriages destroyed. The Powder and flower must be shook out of the Barrels into the River, the Tents burnt, Pork or Beef destroyed in the best way you can devise. And the Men may put Balls of lead in their pockets, throwing them by degrees into Ponds, Ditches &c., but no Quantity together, so that they may be recovered afterwards. If you meet any Brass Artillery, you will order their muzzles to be beat in so as to render them useless.

You will observe by the Draught that it will be necessary to secure the two Bridges as soon as possible, you will therefore Order a party of the best Marchers, to go on with expedition for the purpose.

A small party of Horseback is ordered out to stop all advice of your March getting to Concord before you, and a small number of Artillery go out in Chaises to wait for you on the road, with Sledge Hammers, Spikes, &c.

You will open your business and return with the Troops, as soon as possible, with I must leave to your own Judgment and Discretion.
I am, Sir,
Your most obedient humble servant
Thos. Gage.​
 

nn8734

nn8734
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@Do-nothing, not sure about VA but here in Nevada, it typically takes anywhere from 6 months to a year from passage for any new laws to take effect...even if some sort of ban was passed tomorrow, figure at least 90-180 days before it enters into force, not counting any pending court filings and appeals.

That should give some time to sort out your options and if need be, get any pending NFA items out of jail and in your possession before it’s too late.

My philosophy- once’s it’s in my hands, that’s where it remains.

Beyond that, get involved in the 2A support/activism structure while you remain in Virginia...many hands make light work, perhaps enough folks raise their voices to keep the worst case scenario (blanket bans) off the table.
 

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
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You'll be grandfathered in. Ex post facto laws are unconstitutional and will be struck down in the US Supreme Court.
Right......
You might try telling that to the folks that bought fully legal bump stocks and then were told to destroy them or turn them in with no other option & no compensation.....
 

TACC

Sergeant of the Hide
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Right......
You might try telling that to the folks that bought fully legal bump stocks and then were told to destroy them or turn them in with no other option & no compensation.....
Not trying to be a wiseguy, but I was thinking the same thing.
 
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ClangClang

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Same thing with magazines and a whole variety of firearms in NY, NJ, CT, etc. Grandfathering is unlikely at best. It would make an interesting Supreme Court case, but don't hold your breath.
 
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Srikaleak

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May 11, 2018
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Right......
You might try telling that to the folks that bought fully legal bump stocks and then were told to destroy them or turn them in with no other option & no compensation.....
I've been curious how that has still held up? Maybe because there were fewer people who owned such devices and there were no regulations for purchasing?

I'd hope a device that needed a special federal tax and "extreme vetting" to acquire would be protected but that is a good point.
 

Jefe's Dope

Duke Caboom
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Dec 20, 2017
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You do/will have a Federally issued Tax Stamp. It's not a random item that attempts to 'skirt' the law or use a loophole that can be closed. You went through a regulated process in order to obtain a regulated item.
 

davsco

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Jan 1, 2014
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You'll be grandfathered in. Ex post facto laws are unconstitutional and will be struck down in the US Supreme Court.
the crap they threw out there earlier this year had no grandfathering and required everything out of virginia by late 2020. what is the process and more importantly the timeline to have the SCOTUS hear and decide on a case?
 

jcam

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Imagine what would happen if legislatures require ladies to surrender their luxury handbags in a buy back.

If you follow this gun control mindset to fruition, the only way to achieve their utopia is to get rid of the law abiding gun owner.
It would be logical to Start with law abiding NFA gun owners.
 

Tx_Aggie

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Hessian
Belligerents
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Sep 3, 2017
493
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VA
You'll be grandfathered in. Ex post facto laws are unconstitutional and will be struck down in the US Supreme Court.
There doesn't appear to be any intent to grandfather anything.

As for a challenge, there's plenty of precedent ruling that if given time to sell an item, move it out of state, etc, there's no violation of the 5th amendment. Even if your only option is to sell to a licensed dealer (and dealers will still be able to buy and sell silencers, "AW"s, etc, as it will still be legal to sell to LEO/Govt).

There's also precedent that a new ban on possession isn't the same as an ex post facto criminalization of a previous purchase.

Some examples here:


There is even precedent from Prohibition that if it's in the best interest of public health and safety, it's within the government's purview to confiscate property (though that was in the context of banning alcohol possession and consumption).

Some examples here:
 
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Tx_Aggie

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Hessian
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Sep 3, 2017
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@Do-nothing, not sure about VA but here in Nevada, it typically takes anywhere from 6 months to a year from passage for any new laws to take effect...even if some sort of ban was passed tomorrow, figure at least 90-180 days before it enters into force, not counting any pending court filings and appeals.

That should give some time to sort out your options and if need be, get any pending NFA items out of jail and in your possession before it’s too late.

My philosophy- once’s it’s in my hands, that’s where it remains.

Beyond that, get involved in the 2A support/activism structure while you remain in Virginia...many hands make light work, perhaps enough folks raise their voices to keep the worst case scenario (blanket bans) off the table.

In VA laws take effect July 1 if passed during a normal legislative session, and on the first day of the fourth month following a special session. The previous draft of the bill, from the July 2019 special session, would've take effect sometime this fall (depending on how long the session might have gone) and had a provision allowing owners until July 1 to dispose of their property.

When the bill is reintroduced this January, if it passes it will take effect July 1 (as so would begin prohibiting the sale of whatever it bans on that date. It may also have a provision allowing time to dispose of banned items, for example until Jan 1, 2021. We'll have to wait and see.
 

Srikaleak

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Some examples here:


Some examples here:
Absolutely great link that counters my point. Kudos. Yea, seems like the law is written that the courts can interpret it to be constitutional even though the act of enforcing it is not.

Although DC vs Heller would overturn 2 of the precedents mentioned, it still isn't strong enough for a determined Legislature to get past.
 
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Tx_Aggie

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Sep 3, 2017
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Absolutely great link that counters my point. Kudos. Yea, seems like the law is written that the courts can interpret it to be constitutional even though the act of enforcing it is not.

Although DC vs Heller would overturn 2 of the precedents mentioned it still isn't strong enough for a determined Legislature.
Thanks. I definitely wish it weren't the case.

Here's a link to the VA bill, if you haven't already seen it: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?192+ful+HB4021

AWB, magazine, & silencer changes start towards the bottom at 18.2-308.8 (that link is to the current law, you'll have that location in the document linked above for the proposed one).

It's basically a version of the NY SAFE Act, with all of the same tricks of being vague enough that it could mean almost anything in some places and being specific enough to be a major problem in others.

For example: "has the ability to accept a detachable magazine " could mean a lot of things & could easily be interpreted to make something like an SKS or Cali-compliant AR illegal.

And: "any firearm magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device that has the capacity of, or can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition, including any such device with a removable floor plate or end plate if the device can be readily extended to accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition" -means nearly every 10 round handgun and AR magazine made, so they would almost all be banned, effectively banning many semi-auto's entirely.

It's some evil shit for sure.


And pardon the thread drift.
 

Campguy308

Gunny Sergeant
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jun 26, 2018
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Initially, you should communicate to your newly elected leadership the statistics related to suppressor use in crimes.
 

Vamike9

Patriot
Belligerents
Feb 17, 2017
855
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Virginia
Two choices, stand up for your rights or let them go forever. I choose to stay here and fight this no matter how bad it looks.
We have got to realize that there are a lot of us out here in Va.
They want us to divide, as has happened with the NRA boys and gals. It is the people that make us stronger than they are.
Write, call, get involved in a rally, man this is our last chance to at the very least reduce the impact. After that we have got to challenge it in the courts.
I am just sick of fighting but that's all we have.
Join Gun Owners Of America, very impressed with them as of late.
 
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Campguy308

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Those in distant lands plan to confiscate your legally owned items purchased with funds you worked to earn. Sounds familiar.
 
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2ndamendfan

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I am going to expound on my original comment.

We as a country, as fellow gun owners and constitutionalists we need you to fight.

California, new York, new Jersey are all lost. And were never the holy grail of freedom anyway.

Virginia is much more important as a beacon of freedom.

You need to organize and now. If you need help you need to ask. I fear what happens in Virginia will lead to other states.

The line has been drawn. We need to stop this here and now.
 
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Vamike9

Patriot
Belligerents
Feb 17, 2017
855
108
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Virginia
I am going to expound on my original comment.

We as a country, as fellow gun owners and constitutionalists we need you to fight.

California, new York, new Jersey are all lost. And where never the holy grail of freedom anyway.

Virginia is much more important as a beacon of freedom.

You need to organize and now. If you need help you need to ask. I fear what happens in Virginia will lead to other states.

The line has been drawn. We need to stop this here and now.
100% Agree!
 

Vamike9

Patriot
Belligerents
Feb 17, 2017
855
108
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Virginia
They hold the power we give them, that's it.
I'm sure that there are some Va democrats who are power hungry, and scared to lose your votes in purple districts of Va. Trust me if you call them and make your voices heard, they have to listen.
Make no mistake we are very even in our divide in Va.
No landslides, so we have to pressure!
 
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Do-nothing

Private
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May 29, 2019
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I intend to do my part to stand up for our rights and fight this as best I can. I do not intend to surrender anything but do not relish the thought of becoming a felon either. Most of my like-minded brethren that have spoken to this week believe there will be a royal shit-storm at the general assembly when it meets later this month and/or in January. How much good we can do is questionable. Gun-owners and patriots in Virginia and outside of the state need to realize that what is happening here is pure tyranny. I know for a fact that they do not intend to stop with our guns. The democrat majority believes it has won the battle and sees no limits to what it intends to do. Time will tell if they are right. Much prayer is needed. Guys, please understand, this will not stop with Virginia.
 

Campguy308

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We owe it to others to defend their God given rights as our own; otherwise, ours will be taken soon after.
We should treat the forthcoming Virginia regulations as if they were National regulations. We should start with a mail campaign outlining the acts of treason about to be comitted against free people. Not pre-written letters, but individually wtitten.
 

Campguy308

Gunny Sergeant
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Jun 26, 2018
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I intend to do my part to stand up for our rights and fight this as best I can. I do not intend to surrender anything but do not relish the thought of becoming a felon either. Most of my like-minded brethren that have spoken to this week believe there will be a royal shit-storm at the general assembly when it meets later this month and/or in January. How much good we can do is questionable. Gun-owners and patriots in Virginia and outside of the state need to realize that what is happening here is pure tyranny. I know for a fact that they do not intend to stop with our guns. The democrat majority believes it has won the battle and sees no limits to what it intends to do. Time will tell if they are right. Much prayer is needed. Guys, please understand, this will not stop with Virginia.
If you are afraid of becoming a felon because of opposition to tyranny, you have been defeated.
 
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Vamike9

Patriot
Belligerents
Feb 17, 2017
855
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Virginia
We should treat the forthcoming Virginia regulations as if they were National regulations. We should start with a mail campaign outlining the acts of treason about to be comitted against free people. Not pre-written letters, but individually wtitten.
If every freedom loving person in the country stands behind Va, we will all be stronger for it.
 

Tx_Aggie

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Sep 3, 2017
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If you are afraid of becoming a felon because of opposition to tyranny, you have been defeated. Move aside
You talk a pretty big game for someone who can sit safely behind his keyboard halfway across the country without actually having to worry about consequences.

If the most helpful thing you have to offer is calling out anyone who's actually in harms way by saying what essentially amounts to "don't be a pussy," maybe consider donating to VCDL or doing something else to actually help.
 
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Campguy308

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You talk a pretty big game for someone who can sit safely behind his keyboard halfway across the country without actually having to worry about consequences.

If most helpful thing you have to offer is calling out anyone who's actually in harms way by saying what essentially amounts to "don't be a pussy," maybe consider donating to VCDL or doing something else to actually help.
This is something that we are all likely to face eventually. My suggestion was to start a nation wide mail campaign in support of Virginia. What is your solution? Give up?
 

Tx_Aggie

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Hessian
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Sep 3, 2017
493
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VA
This is something that we are all likely to face eventually. My suggestion was to start a nation wide mail campaign in support of Virginia. What is your solution? Give up?
Nope. I'm in VA, and I have been and will continue to be active in the fight to retain our rights.
 
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Ric O'shay

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I am going to make some assumptions. Most folks here including myself, go above and beyond to do the right things in life.
As such we value or rights and go through extra measures to protect them. Part of this is common sense stuff like having a valid drivers lic. insurance and observing the general laws of the land.
Another part is exercising our right to bear arms. Unlike other sectors of society I suspect we are most likely to observe the rule of current law and safe operation, because we value these rights with passion.
The proposed shit in VA could be life changing if it were to actually take place. Good, honest law abiding citizens would become instant felons. To me that is the ultimate insult of the values we hold.
 

Vamike9

Patriot
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Virginia
We uphold the law until it is no longer lawful or just. Corrupt leadership is destroying this great nation. If we move to another state, well, they are coming sooner than you think.
Stand and fight or bow down to slavery.
 

Do-nothing

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May 29, 2019
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Good afternoon folks. I was not familiar with the Virginia Citizen Defense League and will join this week. How about those who live in Virginia that are aware of such groups, meetings, and events, post them so we can get involved. We need to band together and make sure we all are aware of those things that might make a difference. I personally appreciate the help and suggestions.

I'm mad as hell about all of this and fighting the urge to engage in hyperbolic rhetoric that could cause problems--especially if governor blackface gets his red flag laws. I would urge consideration of our language before we post. Especially if you are behind the lines here in Virginia. I worked with this bunch for years. Put nothing past them. I don't--I've seen it first hand.
 

Vamike9

Patriot
Belligerents
Feb 17, 2017
855
108
69
Virginia
Good afternoon folks. I was not familiar with the Virginia Citizen Defense League and will join this week. How about those who live in Virginia that are aware of such groups, meetings, and events, post them so we can get involved. We need to band together and make sure we all are aware of those things that might make a difference. I personally appreciate the help and suggestions.

I'm mad as hell about all of this and fighting the urge to engage in hyperbolic rhetoric that could cause problems--especially if governor blackface gets his red flag laws. I would urge consideration of our language before we post. Especially if you are behind the lines here in Virginia. I worked with this bunch for years. Put nothing past them. I don't--I've seen it first hand.
I assure you that we have each others back. We will not go gently into that good night. This is our lives, values and freedom at stake. I have just about joined everyone that can lobby against this junk.
GOA, VCDL, NRA man it doesn't matter as long as we fight together. They wanted this divide and they got it.
Now we have to join together again under the name of freedom.
 
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Campguy308

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Good afternoon folks. I was not familiar with the Virginia Citizen Defense League and will join this week. How about those who live in Virginia that are aware of such groups, meetings, and events, post them so we can get involved. We need to band together and make sure we all are aware of those things that might make a difference. I personally appreciate the help and suggestions.

I'm mad as hell about all of this and fighting the urge to engage in hyperbolic rhetoric that could cause problems--especially if governor blackface gets his red flag laws. I would urge consideration of our language before we post. Especially if you are behind the lines here in Virginia. I worked with this bunch for years. Put nothing past them. I don't--I've seen it first hand.
You are correct. I apologize for questioning your resolve. Please let your voices be heard, and do not rest on your laurels with this.
 
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