They finally went for it all NO LEAD AMMO AT SHOOTING RANGES IN CA

Kiba

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There's already another thread for it...


And those of us that live here and pay attention knew this was the next step after they implemented the initial lead ammo ban for hunting in the condor zones and expanded that to a statewide ban on lead ammo for hunting a few years later.

Coming soon to your state!
 

W54/XM-388

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It's a pretty interesting end run to make all the people that stockpiled ammo ahead of the ammo restrictions basically sit on ammunition they can't use.

If this passes none of the ranges will let you shoot all that ammo you stockpiled because if they do and get found out, they get shut down by the state.
 

Soulezoo

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It's a pretty interesting end run to make all the people that stockpiled ammo ahead of the ammo restrictions basically sit on ammunition they can't use.

If this passes none of the ranges will let you shoot all that ammo you stockpiled because if they do and get found out, they get shut down by the state.
Yes and no.

Hunting has been lead free for a number of years. So shotgun and hunting rifle ammo are already adjusted to.

Handguns however are a different story. That does present a problem currently. I am sure bullet manufacturers will adjust and fill the void. There is still frangible ammo in the interim.

Yes it sucks and another example of CA tyranny. But not the end of the world as we know it.
 

armorpl8chikn

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Yeah but there will still be Fudds that try to convince you it's for the best, and really isn't all that big if a deal.

These Fudds are usually easily duped by pictures of dead bald eagles, and retarded children.

Lead is one of the most prevalent elements in nature. It's not near as dangerous as it's made out to be.

 

SD carpenter

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Didn't see it,and yea it's not the end of the world just a bummer. Non lead ammo is expensive as hell and for a lot of calibers non existent in factory ammo.

But we'll see, it just got introduced
 

Tactical_Tom

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A lot of the lead exposure from shooting comes from the primer not the bullets. I haven't really been following things whats the deal with lead free primes right now?
 

Kiba

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Is this how you California idiots try to make yourselves feel better?

You keep telling us that your shit will be coming to our state soon and yet here we are, still waiting.
Oh, edgy.

Not surprised to see a reaction like this from you, but it was meant as a word of caution and not mockery. Perhaps a recalibration of your sarcasm detector is required.

I am not happy about crap like this that our wonderful legislature comes up with... But if you look at the trends for the last few decades, gun legislation here seems to be used as a template a few years later by like minded law makers in other states... Hence my comment. We get our freedoms restricted a little more each passing year, then it spreads elsewhere with our laws as a template, and others get their freedoms restricted similarly. We all lose, not just California residents.

It's a safe bet in the next few years we'll be seeing similar legislation in other states, especially if it gains traction here.

The shitty attitude many gun owning non-CA residents have against those of us that still live here and have to deal with this crap daily isn't helpful either. Even though it's a severely uphill and typically a losing battle against any new gun laws proposed in this state (calls and letters to our representatives don't seem to help given the majority in our legislature) we need all the help we can get-- if we could stop some of these laws in their tracks here, they would be less likely to spread elsewhere.
 
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SD carpenter

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"it doesn't affect me so it doesn't matter"
Oh, edgy.

Not surprised to see a reaction like this from you, but it was meant as a word of caution and not mockery. Perhaps a recalibration of your sarcasm detector is required.

I am not happy about crap like this that our wonderful legislature comes up with... But if you look at the trends for the last few decades, gun legislation here seems to be used as a template a few years later by like minded law makers in other states... Hence my comment. We get our freedoms restricted a little more each passing year, then it spreads elsewhere with our laws as a template, and others get their freedoms restricted similarly. We all lose, not just California residents.

It's a safe bet in the next few years we'll be seeing similar legislation in other states, especially if it gains traction here.

The shitty attitude many gun owning non-CA residents have against those of us that still live here and have to deal with this crap daily (even though calls and letters to our representatives don't seem to help given the majority in our legislature) isn't helpful either. Even though it's a severely uphill battle against any new gun laws proposed in this state, we need all the help we can get-- if we could stop some of these laws in their tracks here, they would be less likely to spread elsewhere.
 
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Kiba

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"it doesn't affect me so it doesn't matter"
Exactly.

My very pessimistic view is for better or worse (definitely for worse), California's gun laws serve as a template for future gun laws across the entire country-- with varying degrees of time delay by state. The question being, is your state 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, or 20 years behind what we're currently dealing with? One only needs to look at what has been pushed in Virginia and Arizona to catch the scent in the wind... It's coming, and they'll keep trying.

Burying your head in the sand won't help, and if this cancer continues to spread, eventually we're going to run out of places to move to keep these freedoms. What better place to stop it than at the source?

The attitudes and beliefs of many of those living inside, but especially outside of the bay area and the LA basin, may not match your stereotype... Unfortunately they don't have sufficient voting power to flip the legislature.

I plan on performing some reverse lead mining in protest tomorrow morning.
 
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little_scrapper

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Just stock up on underwood Xtreme Defender, Black Hills HoneyBadger, Inceptor ARX and NovX Engagement Extreme.

Thought they were non-lead but underwood is definately copper. Probably one of the best all around round. as it is barrier blind as well. unlike HP's which turn into FMJ's when the tip picks up a piece of sheet metal.
 

M8541Reaper

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There are already indoor gun ranges that don’t allow lead bullets to be fired and some outdoor ranges that have shorter the target distances because they weren’t able to remove the lead from impacts on the side of the mountain.

Regarding 100% lead projectiles, that’s been banned at a few ranges in FL back when I was there. I used to laugh when I’d see the sigh because I wondered if I was back in 1750. Damn boomers and their smelters. lol

You have to give it to em though. They are starting to realize that the easier way to win is to not go after the firearms themselves. Land is finite and soon (in a few generations) there will be no more public land. For you older folks in here, think back on what your towns and surrounding areas looked like as children. Control the land (by environmental regulation and infrastructure) and you control everything.
 

Nik H

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It's a pretty interesting end run to make all the people that stockpiled ammo ahead of the ammo restrictions basically sit on ammunition they can't use.

If this passes none of the ranges will let you shoot all that ammo you stockpiled because if they do and get found out, they get shut down by the state.
Do we stockpile ammo to use on the range?
I used to stockpile for different reasons. I don’t stockpile anything anymore since the tragic boating accident
 

Blue Sky Country

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Yes and no.

Hunting has been lead free for a number of years. So shotgun and hunting rifle ammo are already adjusted to.

Handguns however are a different story. That does present a problem currently. I am sure bullet manufacturers will adjust and fill the void. There is still frangible ammo in the interim.

Yes it sucks and another example of CA tyranny. But not the end of the world as we know it.

I have never looked into that part regarding California in particular but I assume hunting with black powder guns and shooting them in California is not allowed either?
So they basically fucking banned an entire class of 'sporting' firearms via indirect actions. Don't these dipshits realize that lead is the ONLY type of ammunition that can be fired from most black powder guns? It is an inherent feature of the engineering and design of these weapons. Of course I don't expect these motherfuckers to give a shit either. Fucking shame because at least 3 out of 10 Kentucky, Tennessee, and Gibbs pattern hunting/long range rifles that I had built back in the day were sold to California buyers. Now they cannot even use them at shooting ranges anymore...
 

Cuzz

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Yes and no.

Hunting has been lead free for a number of years. So shotgun and hunting rifle ammo are already adjusted to.

Handguns however are a different story. That does present a problem currently. I am sure bullet manufacturers will adjust and fill the void. There is still frangible ammo in the interim.

Yes it sucks and another example of CA tyranny. But not the end of the world as we know it.
but it is another step in the plan
 
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W54/XM-388

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Do we stockpile ammo to use on the range?
I do, it's actually a pretty good idea, that way you can buy in bulk when the deals are good and then shoot anytime you want.

Back during the ammo scare of the Obama time, I could still go out to the range and shoot .22LR .223 9mm etc for fun without worry as everyone else was frantically trying to buy more.
 

308pirate

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Oh, edgy.

Not surprised to see a reaction like this from you, but it was meant as a word of caution and not mockery.
We here in the midwest are still waiting for your california auto emission standards................It's been what, over forty years?

I'm sorry for all the shit you have to deal with. But A) don't try to warn us that it "will soon be where you live". Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see through that. And B) You have choices.
 

wpgk58

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All copper bullet kill too...
They are waiting in the wings to fly that one out...
I like the idea of northern California merging with Western Oregon and Idaho...
 

SF Architect

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Cue the 'chicken little'; OMFG, the sky is falling panic

As stated above led free hunting has been the case in CA for some time.

I would consider getting your news from somewhere other than Breitbart or Rush Limbaugh.

I'm a Californian, I world(actually volunteeer) at my local range. I don't see this bill passing. Lots of legislatures, in an act of political grandstanding propose lots of stupid s***. Getting it passed, signed into law and enacted without some lawsuits is a different thing fellas. Even in CA, the odds of this passing is pretty slim
 

DOA

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Cue the 'chicken little'; OMFG, the sky is falling panic

As stated above led free hunting has been the case in CA for some time.

I would consider getting your news from somewhere other than Breitbart or Rush Limbaugh.

I'm a Californian, I world(actually volunteeer) at my local range. I don't see this bill passing. Lots of legislatures, in an act of political grandstanding propose lots of stupid s***. Getting it passed, signed into law and enacted without some lawsuits is a different thing fellas. Even in CA, the odds of this passing is pretty slim
Its not about hunting and it effects public ranges. We know your freedom taking dems love this shit and with a solid stupidity of dems in control, it will most likely sail thru.
 

SF Architect

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right, its all the ''freedom taking dems'. . .

So do please, by all means keep voting for a guy who was court ordered to shut down his family charity after defrauding veteran's charities out of $2M. Who settled out of court for $25M after defrauding thousands of working class people out of money in Trump University. Who never misses a chance to play 'small ball' and punch down at gold star families, or a sixteen year old girl, or publicly mock a disables reporter. Keep being a single issue voter and voting against your own direct economic and social self interest and that of your children, just to stick it to the 'libs. Fine thinking' that.
 

acudaowner

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find it funny that they are so worried about lead in bullets but in drinking water lead AOK
 

SF Architect

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Wanna' talk about 'freedom taking', lets see:

You're all OK with the ubiquity of license plate readers, that surveil your daily comings and goings. You're all OK with the fact that Johnny Law and countless other makers of apps on your phones track your everyy movement 24/7/365. Some of you have so called 'smart' speakers that record literally, every, single, word, said in your homes and send them back to the corporate mother ship. Most of you are on Facebook or other social media that packages and markets your personal data every day, ago whomever is willing to pay for it. Because of their 'you have no' so called privacy agreements, they will continue to do so for the rest of your days on this earth and likely beyond. Your cars have GPS in them that tracks your driving habits and location 24/7/365. There's surveillance cameras at what percentage of places you spend your time at day in day out? Facial recognition is coming in many states. Ring doorbells allow law enforcement to create a virtual panopticon (look it up) You're all OK with, all, of that. That's really just the basics in broad brushstrokes. This is fine!

But somehow, requiring lead free ammo so condors eagles and other top sear(spelling?) predators that eat these dead critters don't get poisoned is 'freedom taking'?!

Wake up folks.
 
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Fig

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You are so ignorant and full of shit. You vote for straight up totalitarians and then tell us our lying politicians aren’t saints? No shit Sherlock. The only reason I like Trump is because he drives communist retards like you bananas. Election night will be even sweeter than the last time, but less of a surprise.

The difference is that our lying bastards betray their party platform when they vote for authoritarian shit. Yours fulfill it when they try and steal rights and steal the fruits of our labor to redistribute it to wastrels and criminals (your people).

Californians are like locusts. You destroyed your own state and are now fleeing it to destroy others. I respect the people who stay and fight the retardation of the @SF Architects.
 

Palmetto-Pride

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Wanna' talk about 'freedom taking', lets see:

You're all OK with the ubiquity of license plate readers, that surveil your daily comings and goings. You're all OK with the fact that Johnny Law and countless other makers of apps on your phones track your everyy movement 24/7/365. Some of you have so called 'smart' speakers that record literally, every, single, word, said in your homes and send them back to the corporate mother ship. Most of you are on Facebook or other social media that packages and markets your personal data every day, ago whomever is willing to pay for it. Because of their 'you have no' so called privacy agreements, they will continue to do so for the rest of your days on this earth and likely beyond. Your cars have GPS in them that tracks your driving habits and location 24/7/365. There's surveillance cameras at what percentage of places you spend your time at day in day out? Facial recognition is coming in many states. Ring doorbells allow law enforcement to create a virtual panopticon (look it up) You're all OK with, all, of that. That's really just the basics in broad brushstrokes. This is fine!

But somehow, requiring lead free ammo so condors eagles and other top sear(spelling?) predators that eat these dead critters is 'freedom taking'?!

Wake up folks.
Your forgetting one thing we have choices on most of that other shit......not so much on making a certain type of ammo illegal
 

deersniper

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right, its all the ''freedom taking dems'. . .

So do please, by all means keep voting for a guy who was court ordered to shut down his family charity after defrauding veteran's charities out of $2M. Who settled out of court for $25M after defrauding thousands of working class people out of money in Trump University. Who never misses a chance to play 'small ball' and punch down at gold star families, or a sixteen year old girl, or publicly mock a disables reporter. Keep being a single issue voter and voting against your own direct economic and social self interest and that of your children, just to stick it to the 'libs. Fine thinking' that.
Go fuck yourself you sharia blue Soros troll. 11 posts and 10 are pushing for socialism ?

You idiots failed history and economics now you want to push the 100 percent failure rate commie crap on Thisbe country.
 
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SD carpenter

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wow, we are attracting all kinds nowadays.
And the lead free for condors thing is a joke.
The hazard of "lead posioning" from shooting is a personal choice. I wonder how many less people have died from lead inhalation at a shooting range versus smoking? Both are personal choices.

And if you've live here in hell your whole life, then you know they will pass whatever the hell they want. Ha, governer newsom even overrided the statewide vote for the death penalty.
 

W54/XM-388

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right, its all the ''freedom taking dems'. . .

So do please, by all means keep voting for a guy who was court ordered to shut down his family charity after defrauding veteran's charities out of $2M. Who settled out of court for $25M after defrauding thousands of working class people out of money in Trump University. Who never misses a chance to play 'small ball' and punch down at gold star families, or a sixteen year old girl, or publicly mock a disables reporter. Keep being a single issue voter and voting against your own direct economic and social self interest and that of your children, just to stick it to the 'libs. Fine thinking' that.
Wanna' talk about 'freedom taking', lets see:

You're all OK with the ubiquity of license plate readers, that surveil your daily comings and goings. You're all OK with the fact that Johnny Law and countless other makers of apps on your phones track your everyy movement 24/7/365. Some of you have so called 'smart' speakers that record literally, every, single, word, said in your homes and send them back to the corporate mother ship. Most of you are on Facebook or other social media that packages and markets your personal data every day, ago whomever is willing to pay for it. Because of their 'you have no' so called privacy agreements, they will continue to do so for the rest of your days on this earth and likely beyond. Your cars have GPS in them that tracks your driving habits and location 24/7/365. There's surveillance cameras at what percentage of places you spend your time at day in day out? Facial recognition is coming in many states. Ring doorbells allow law enforcement to create a virtual panopticon (look it up) You're all OK with, all, of that. That's really just the basics in broad brushstrokes. This is fine!

But somehow, requiring lead free ammo so condors eagles and other top sear(spelling?) predators that eat these dead critters is 'freedom taking'?!

Wake up folks.
Go be a Communist somewhere else.
 

SF Architect

illegitimi non carborundum
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Apr 29, 2013
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Hey, despite this being a right wing echo chamber, if Sniper's Hide keeps spamming me with e-mail related to politics and not shooting, I'm gonna' weigh in here. The reason we have the housing crisis we do, is because som many companies, and people, find it such a desirable place to live.

WRT Newsom, I certainly have some issues with his ignorance about firearms. But, by and large, I'm OK with most of what he's done. I'm old enough to be all about, in the aggregate, does this person/organizaton do more good than harm? Or more harm than good. Anyone on here who's been married any time, knows you're not gonna' agree with everything someone says/does/thinks.
 

Matches Malone

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Wanna' talk about 'freedom taking', lets see:

You're all OK with the ubiquity of license plate readers, that surveil your daily comings and goings. You're all OK with the fact that Johnny Law and countless other makers of apps on your phones track your everyy movement 24/7/365. Some of you have so called 'smart' speakers that record literally, every, single, word, said in your homes and send them back to the corporate mother ship. Most of you are on Facebook or other social media that packages and markets your personal data every day, ago whomever is willing to pay for it. Because of their 'you have no' so called privacy agreements, they will continue to do so for the rest of your days on this earth and likely beyond. Your cars have GPS in them that tracks your driving habits and location 24/7/365. There's surveillance cameras at what percentage of places you spend your time at day in day out? Facial recognition is coming in many states. Ring doorbells allow law enforcement to create a virtual panopticon (look it up) You're all OK with, all, of that. That's really just the basics in broad brushstrokes. This is fine!

But somehow, requiring lead free ammo so condors eagles and other top sear(spelling?) predators that eat these dead critters is 'freedom taking'?!

Wake up folks.
I’ll never agree with anyone that tells me to wake up. The woke culture is full of stupidity.

By banning lead ammo, at ranges is banning accessibly to train and shoot. Ranges won’t be able to sell this ammo. Now if someone were to want to shoot long range, they are limited to a specific criteria of bullets that aren’t comparable to lead core bullets. California has THE strictest laws on guns. The only ones affected by them are not criminals. The California condor is still being lead poison’d even after laws went into effect with using using lead free ammo, it’s highly unlikely that there’s just mass fields of lead killing birds out there in National Forest. So yes, Its another right being taken away under the guise of some BS logic. Just like the requirement for post 1990 whatever model handguns to be micro stamped in California.

The problem with socialism in a society and why it never works is because nobody wants to pay for programs for everyone else. The money is collected in taxes. To include social security, welfare and so forth. The people able to pay these are not the ones using it. Why should the middle class pay for other people’s shit? What makes fags like you entitled to these peoples hard worked for earnings?
Apparently California thinks it’s worth giving it to Mexicans and other illegals coming in so they can have “free medical.” The money funding it is not coming from Newsom’s bank....
 

acudaowner

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why then they would move to another state and start that crap all over again there . a good old volcano could clean that mess up while leaving the ground revitalized and usable in less time .
 
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sirhrmechanic

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Do we stockpile ammo to use on the range?
I used to stockpile for different reasons. I don’t stockpile anything anymore since the tragic boating accident
When it's time to dip into the stockpiles, noone is going to care what is allowed on ranges!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 

Fig

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Hey, despite this being a right wing echo chamber, if Sniper's Hide keeps spamming me with e-mail related to politics and not shooting, I'm gonna' weigh in here. The reason we have the housing crisis we do, is because som many companies, and people, find it such a desirable place to live.

WRT Newsom, I certainly have some issues with his ignorance about firearms. But, by and large, I'm OK with most of what he's done. I'm old enough to be all about, in the aggregate, does this person/organizaton do more good than harm? Or more harm than good. Anyone on here who's been married any time, knows you're not gonna' agree with everything someone says/does/thinks.
Wow! Just wow, and you’re an architect? I now don’t believe you’re an architect at all.
California is loosing population, and you‘re about to loose a congressional seat!
The reason you’re housing if fucked is because of leftist, lay, fucktard zoning boards that have made it impossible to build affordable housing almost anywhere in your state where there is a demand. The reason there is a homeless problem is because you have the worst drug problem in America hands down. That I have to explain reality to you when you live there couldn’t illustrate the problem more acutely. Clearly the problem with California is you and idiots like you.

right click, add to spam, and you won’t here from SH again...Otherwise @Tucker301, can we stop sending this fake ”architect” emails so he fucks off? That would be nice. ;)
 

R0man

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Feb 24, 2019
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Wanna' talk about 'freedom taking', lets see:

You're all OK with the ubiquity of license plate readers, that surveil your daily comings and goings. You're all OK with the fact that Johnny Law and countless other makers of apps on your phones track your everyy movement 24/7/365. Some of you have so called 'smart' speakers that record literally, every, single, word, said in your homes and send them back to the corporate mother ship. Most of you are on Facebook or other social media that packages and markets your personal data every day, ago whomever is willing to pay for it. Because of their 'you have no' so called privacy agreements, they will continue to do so for the rest of your days on this earth and likely beyond. Your cars have GPS in them that tracks your driving habits and location 24/7/365. There's surveillance cameras at what percentage of places you spend your time at day in day out? Facial recognition is coming in many states. Ring doorbells allow law enforcement to create a virtual panopticon (look it up) You're all OK with, all, of that. That's really just the basics in broad brushstrokes. This is fine!

But somehow, requiring lead free ammo so condors eagles and other top sear(spelling?) predators that eat these dead critters don't get poisoned is 'freedom taking'?!

Wake up folks.
1582688200514.jpeg
 

Kiba

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Going to avoid getting back into the political side of this at the moment, and just point out how much this is going to cost shooters here in CA if it goes through.

The lead ammo ban for hunting initially started only in the coastal condor zones many years ago, then went state wide for all hunting, for big game and varmints, in July of 2019.

A big game hunter that only shoots maybe 50 lead free rounds per year between checking zero and hunting isn't going to be hit in the pocket book too hard, it's the high volume varmint hunters and match shooters that are going to pay dearly.

I'm a high volume ground squirrel shooter during late spring and summer to the tune of about 2000-5000 rounds per year depending on the weather and how many of the little buggers they give birth to each season.

I just had to work up all new non lead loads for my ground squirrel guns. Sucks, because I had some really, really accurate lead bullet loads and a ton of bullets on the shelf.

Sure, I found some excellent non lead loads, but the substantially higher bullet prices suck, the much lower BC for the same weight bullet sucks, and the lower density non lead bullets means if you want to run the high BC non lead bullets you'll probably have to junk all your current barrels and go faster twist to stabilize the higher BC lead free bullets because they're so much longer than the lead equivalent.

I primarily shoot 223AI, and my previous favorite squirrel load was a 75 amax or 75 eld which run about $20 for 100 for only the bullets. Inside of 500y they might not shoot as flat as a faster 53 vmax, but they do so much better on windy days for the long shots... And they still blow up the squirrels. :)

Best 2 higher bc non lead .224 bullets I found in terms of accuracy were the Lehigh 72s at $50/100 and the cutting edge 78s at $55/50. While they both were stupid accurate (sub 1" @ 300 for 5 shots) both have lower bc's than the 75 amax or 75 eld so they're going to drop more and get pushed around in the wind more.

Now for the cost delta...

Assuming an average year of 3500 rounds of 223 expended for squirrel blasting, here's just the cost of the 3500 bullets:

$700 eld-m
$1750 Lehigh 72
$3850 cutting edge 78

That's $1050-$3150 of cost increase per year for feeding *one* of my rifles... And that's the cost increase only for hunting use. Now imagine paying that kind of premium for ammo for all your rifles and pistols for range use too. I don't even want to think about how much more it's going to cost to feed the pistols for USPSA if this ends up passing...

Doesn't take a PhD in math to see this law is going to cost shooters here in CA a metric fuckton of money, and many will probably dial back or even stop shooting entirely because of the increased cost. That means less customers at gun stores and ranges to keep them in business.

Keeping my fingers crossed this doesn't pass, but won't be surprised if it does. Time to send more letters to my representatives even though I know they'll fall on deaf ears...
 
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