The Recession - A DNC Unified Message

Shooter McGavin

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When it’s cheaper to pay people to get the congress to reduce your tax rate than to pay tax, there’s a problem. It’s also harmful to a competitive free market for some of the largest companies to have special tax incentives. But that’s a small problem compared to our spending problem that will crash this country. Let it burn...
Corporations only pass the taxes along to their consumers, so in reality corporations don't pay taxes. This is one way the government increase your tax burden and they even get you to cheer them on when they do it. Another way to tax people without saying your increasing taxes is to do quantitative easing. The government will have more money printed making the money you already hold worth less. So, basically stealing from your savings account or home value.
 

MtnCreek

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Corporations only pass the taxes along to their consumers, so in reality corporations don't pay taxes. This is one way the government increase your tax burden and they even get you to cheer them on when they do it. Another way to tax people without saying your increasing taxes is to do quantitative easing. The government will have more money printed making the money you already hold worth less. So, basically stealing from your savings account or home value.
Correct. But they're not paying lobbyists so they can save the end user a couple bucks. They are looking to reduce costs and gain an advantage for either their company or industry.

FWIW, I support the Fair Tax. Sales tax on retail only. The gov will likely never pass it because it takes a ton of power away from DC.
 

Vodoun daVinci

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It's why when I see all these headline news about "trade wars" and "oh my god" I laugh my ass off. You guys do realize that the market is being played by Billionaires in power, right? For instance some politician/world leader does just what SilentStalkr says and quietly sells off a significant amount or *really* good stock at record high prices and the price begins to fall....then he tweets about how China or whoever is getting blitzed in a "trade war" and the whole market freaks out and drops like a rock as they see this as the harbinger of the Final Crash.

Then a week later the same jackass tweets that all the issues have been amicably settled or are stable for now (after he buys all the stock back at shattered rock bottom prices) and rides the same stock right back up to where it was two weeks ago making millions.

The market is not a toy unless yer worth billions and have people pooping when you tweet. None of what you hear - half of what you see. When it comes to investing and the world markets you *are* being played and groomed by professionals and they have sophisticated ways of playing you and fleecing you. Don't sell...if all these companies go completely broke and you lose all your money you'll have bigger problems than having lost all yer money.

VooDoo
 
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Shooter McGavin

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Correct. But they're not paying lobbyists so they can save the end user a couple bucks. They are looking to reduce costs and gain an advantage for either their company or industry.

FWIW, I support the Fair Tax. Sales tax on retail only. The gov will likely never pass it because it takes a ton of power away from DC.
They need those saving to increase the value of their stock so that share holders make dividends. A large part of their share holders are 401K investments. I support a consumption tax too, only after the income tax is destroyed.
 
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pmclaine

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@pmclaine Is this the one?

I can't say I totally disagree with what he's saying. Business should have a conscience.

The idea that share value is the ultimate gaol of a business has perverted a lot of corporations. JMHO.

Note none of these CEOs are taking in a family of poor or reducing their net worth to the median net worth...



 

pmclaine

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@pmclaine Is this the one?

I can't say I totally disagree with what he's saying. Business should have a conscience.

The idea that share value is the ultimate gaol of a business has perverted a lot of corporations. JMHO.

Business should have a purpose - The improvement of the country and providing a good life for its workers and customers.

They are lucky they live in a free market economy.

Problem is we have allowed businesses to conglomerate to a point that now a few behemoths control everything.

The competition and choice that should drive innovation and force down costs doesnt really exist.

Now these guys that are left want to "park" everything in the status quo.
 

Vodoun daVinci

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it used to be that a company existed to "make a better mousetrap" or supply a necessary service that people would pay for. Now we have companies owned and operated by multimillionaires whose whole purpose is to dupe the market and sell for billions.

Some companies make absolutely nothing and get filthy rich.

It used to be craftsmen and entrepreneurs made a lot of money supplying quality goods and services. Now spin and hype can make more money faster than any good product or service. The world is changing and it's not going back. Like the guys who used to build ice houses and harvest ice or the guys who used to run livery stables and build carriages (or fix TV's) that world is gone never to return. Us working folks need to get a return on our savings more than .09% leaving it in the bank.

That involves risk. If we want to make money on money we have saved we'll have to play a game that has few rules and is owned by Billionaires. Money (capital) is just a place marker....we can't eat it, we can't shelter in it. We can't even burn enough to keep warm. Yet we worship it and will sell our neighbor to get more than he has.

I'm looking forward to the evolution of Capitalism. The love of money is the root of all evil but if you don't indulge you live like a dog. Sucks to be US in this century.

VooDoo
 
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kthomas

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Lots of good advice in here. With a solid strategy, ignore the "noise" and stay strong on your investment course.

Timing the market is for fools. To be successful in each trade when timing the market, you have to be right twice. Not to mention, the professionals don't even get it right most of the time.

I myself have a preference to purchase indexes, index funds that track an index such as the S&P 500. When the markets go up, I buy, when the markets go down, I continue to buy. There'll be corrections and blips, but the general long term trend will always be up.

People are emotional creatures, and making decisions based solely on emotions, especially in such things as the stock market, generally aren't the best ones. All these headlines are doing are playing off of our emotions, and people will be making rash and bad decisions from it. Plenty of good examples have been illuminated here.
 

8pointer

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I have 2 friends in the finserv industry who left big name broker dealers after the dot.com bubble to work for small boutique firms b/c they couldn't stand the duplicity of the double speak. Neither of them would/did invest their own money the way their broker suggested clients invest. The finserv industry uses a lot of terms that *sound* complex coupled with the emotions tied to money to make the general public think they need a managed approach with fees and expenses attached(the silent killer).

For the amount of time we invest into shooting pursuits, ballistic charts, scope reticles, barrel twist and reloading specs the average joe could easily learn all they need to know to manage their own money confidently, competently and at less cost than a managed account in under a year and probably sooner depending on the appetite. Caveat would be someone with higher net worth who needs a CPA constantly patrolling tax law changes, estate planning changes etc. I have a friend in this boat and it can pay to have that kind of pro at your back at a moments notice and looking ahead especially in this day and age(AOC/Warren)war. First time you heard 'MIL' and looked at a reticle with all those lines and dots 'oh man this is gonna be insane'.....and it wasn't. Same with finance.....dare ya to try it! If nothing else put on CNBC app, listen live on radio and digest a little every day in the car.......truyl...it ain't rocket webbertry. Maria Bartiromo on Fox Business is incredibly insightful and dumbs things down for people like us she is my fav. I'm coming at LR shooting from having learned to manage my own money first and I can tell you from my chair learning this LR craft b/t the ears AND in practical use is more difficult.
 
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SilentStalkr

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I have 2 friends in the finserv industry who left big name broker dealers after the dot.com bubble to work for small boutique firms b/c they couldn't stand the duplicity of the double speak. Neither of them would/did invest their own money the way their broker suggested clients invest. The finserv industry uses a lot of terms that *sound* complex coupled with the emotions tied to money to make the general public think they need a managed approach with fees and expenses attached(the silent killer).

For the amount of time we invest into shooting pursuits, ballistic charts, scope reticles, barrel twist and reloading specs the average joe could easily learn all they need to know to manage their own money confidently, competently and at less cost than a managed account in under a year and probably sooner depending on the appetite. Caveat would be someone with higher net worth who needs a CPA constantly patrolling tax law changes, estate planning changes etc. I have a friend in this boat and it can pay to have that kind of pro at your back at a moments notice and looking ahead especially in this day and age(AOC/Warren)war. First time you heard 'MIL' and looked at a reticle with all those lines and dots 'oh man this is gonna be insane'.....and it wasn't. Same with finance.....dare ya to try it! If nothing else put on CNBC app, listen live on radio and digest a little every day in the car.......truyl...it ain't rocket webbertry. Maria Bartiromo on Fox Business is incredibly insightful and dumbs things down for people like us she is my fav. I'm coming at LR shooting from having learned to manage my own money first and I can tell you from my chair learning this LR craft b/t the ears AND in practical use is more difficult.
So, what did you learn? Instead of just saying you learned something why not offer something specific?
 

8pointer

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So, what did you learn? Instead of just saying you learned something why not offer something specific?
Nothing that hasn't been mentioned here already fo rthe most part. The 30,000 foot view is try to aim for hitting singles and not HR's. If you hit one great, but there are no get rich quick schemes. My buddy didn't want to manage my money, but set me on a learning path so I could feed myself one day. He started sending me info as a basic education and it became a pet project then morphed into something I loved. For instance at the time I looked at the only way to make money with a position was share price appreciation. Dividend? What the hell is that?(told you I was stoopids) Dividend reinvestment is a powerful tool and dollar cost averaging with DRIP's is fun to watch! Dividend income well heck yes that's a great option too. Companies in a growth mode can be fun and explosive, but typically starved for cash and not dividend attractive for me by and large(doesn't mean they maynot be great investments, just not my cup of tea). Well established companies with a ton of cash may reinvest it too which isn't bad either...just gotta figure out what you want. Looking at leverage ratios are they levered to the max of what the cmpany covenants aloow? Leverage isn't bad, but abusing it is a recipe for disaster. Preferred shares vs common stock.....that has been a heavy focus for me in recent years. I still call my buddy a LOT and ask him to walk me through balance sheet minutia...the more I learn the more I want. It's never ending I learn more every day and know it will never stop. Not sure if that is what you were looking for. Or maybe a sector I never looked at before? Midstream is getting killed this year. In my mind it's because many if not most believe they are tied helplessly by the nuts to the price of oil. There are a ton of great midstreams who are essentially a toll booth and eveyr time someone wants a drop of oil to move down the line.....bingo....pay the toll.....and there is no shortage of product passing through pipes. Bargain bin share prices and dividend machines.
 
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SilentStalkr

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Nothing that hasn't been mentioned here already fo rthe most part. The 30,000 foot view is try to aim for hitting singles and not HR's. If you hit one great, but there are no get rich quick schemes. My buddy didn't want to manage my money, but set me on a learning path so I could feed myself one day. He started sending me info as a basic education and it became a pet project then morphed into something I loved. For instance at the time I looked at the only way to make money with a position was share price appreciation. Dividend? What the hell is that?(told you I was stoopids) Dividend reinvestment is a powerful tool and dollar cost averaging with DRIP's is fun to watch! Dividend income well heck yes that's a great option too. Companies in a growth mode can be fun and explosive, but typically starved for cash and not dividend attractive for me by and large(doesn't mean they maynot be great investments, just not my cup of tea). Well established companies with a ton of cash may reinvest it too which isn't bad either...just gotta figure out what you want. Looking at leverage ratios are they levered to the max of what the cmpany covenants aloow? Leverage isn't bad, but abusing it is a recipe for disaster. Preferred shares vs common stock.....that has been a heavy focus for me in recent years. I still call my buddy a LOT and ask him to walk me through balance sheet minutia...the more I learn the more I want. It's never ending I learn more every day and know it will never stop. Not sure if that is what you were looking for. Or maybe a sector I never looked at before? Midstream is getting killed this year. In my mind it's because many if not most believe they are tied helplessly by the nuts to the price of oil. There are a ton of great midstreams who are essentially a toll booth and eveyr time someone wants a drop of oil to move down the line.....bingo....pay the toll.....and there is no shortage of product passing through pipes. Bargain bin share prices and dividend machines.
So, did he tell you any books and whatnot to read or what? There is a lot of bad info floating around out there on the net!
 

8pointer

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I sent you an email for a web page I love.....devour it....endless lifetime of learning. While I have read a ton of books many of them had a chapter worth remembering. The web link in email will keep you busy for life and you won't ever be dumber when ur done. Go get 'em!
 
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acudaowner

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The dnc could easily explain there whole party's message in 2020 to mental Illness or dirrrrp . every lie they say today is as retarded as the lies they told yesterday . There message is trash , socialist propaganda and tall tales of how to destroy this country . I wish them happiness in the land of misfit toys , but not in this country or in the real world .
 

8pointer

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I'm interested to see how bad the algos lose their minds the next time Europe sends a shockwave of bad news our way and everyone jumps into Treasuries sending the 10 into the shitter. Gonna be more great bargains to be had and it will be blamed on a TDS 'event'. I heard an interview recently can't remember who it was that there are people lab testing AI in the algos to read body posture, tone of voice? WTF.
 

Soulezoo

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Here and there
And 10 years ago “the news media “ told us all the oil on the planet was going to be used up 4 years ago - as the oil companies posted record profits day, after day, after day.....🤬🤬🤬

News media =💩 and lies
Do you know who makes the largest profit from oil? Hint, it's not the oil companies.

It's .gov.
 

gigamortis

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About 6 months before the next presidential election, you can bet your ass that the Deep State will start lighting the fuses on the financial markets so that Trump gets the blame. They have realized from the last presidential election that voter fraud alone can't win it for them.
 

candyx

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Democrats politicians as fucked up as they are they are able to stick to a daily scrip which they must email to everyone because they all repeat the same sound bites word for word. Normally a group of people would never use the same words describing an event or things unless reading from a script or talking points.
 

pmclaine

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Do you know who makes the largest profit from oil? Hint, it's not the oil companies.

It's .gov.

Yes.

I asked our local rep to make it mandatory that on the gas pump they show the break down

1. Cost of product to get to this pump.
2. Sellers profit.
3. Oil company profit
4. Taxes


By and far taxes exceed line items 2 and 3
 

8pointer

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So, did he tell you any books and whatnot to read or what? There is a lot of bad info floating around out there on the net!
Did you get on Seeking Alpha at all? Interested to know what you thought about it after the past few weeks....bulls, bears, contrarians.....but these guys with the subscription models are online all day answering questions putting their money where their mouth it. It's not the daily stock picker/trader, but their method for learning how to digest a balance sheet and look at the trends of the sector, macro as well. It's drinking from a fire hydrant at first, but then the flipping to google for defnitions goes away and at some point you go 'oh dang!'.
 

8pointer

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So, did he tell you any books and whatnot to read or what? There is a lot of bad info floating around out there on the net!
I just got my copy back recently of The Millionaire Next Door. Not a book about investing, but it goes to that line of thinking. Old old book a great source of mindset on how the vast majority of wealth is built in American households. Lent this book out so many times it's crazy
 

7.62willdo

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I saw this coming last couple of weeks and today it's going full stride.
The Democrats are beginning to catch on that their collection of misfits have zero chance of defeating Trump in a booming economy, so they are trying to drum up a recession by convincing investors and consumers that one is coming.

Cut across the "news" outlets and social media today, and they are hitting hit hard. "Experts" predicting an economic stumble in the near future.

Democrats need victims, or at least people who have been convinced they are victims, to get votes.
Mueller was a clusterfuck and they are desperate. This is their unified approach and the media is copying and pasting.
Make no mistake..... their not trying to cause one, their just laying the ground work for when they DO cause one.....Don’t fool yourself by thinking they can’t, they control enough of the stock market to do just that, I promise........
 

pmclaine

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According to the Dems the years 2008 through 2016 were the Bush Economy.

The White House occupant was given a bad hand of cards during that error.

The present good economy is the Obama economy. Everything he did in his term is now taking effect and we see the genius of his error.

On the first Wednesday after the first Tuesday after a Monday in November of 2020 should we wake up and see the Communists have stolen the Presidency and the stock market has crashed we will than be in the Trump economy.
 

pmclaine

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So technically......hooverville....was more aptly Coolidgeville?
As they were both Republicans the Dems believe time and space warps so that whatever bad thing occurs during their administration Republicans are solely responsible.

Unlike when bad things happen in a Dem administration time and space are bent by quantum physics and responsible either to the past Republican administration or some as yet unelected future Republican administration.

This is proved in how the Republicans are responsible for Japanese internment camps, George Wallace, all the riots related to the civil rights marches in Democrat controlled southern states and applying black face to Governor Northam.
 

SilentStalkr

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Did you get on Seeking Alpha at all? Interested to know what you thought about it after the past few weeks....bulls, bears, contrarians.....but these guys with the subscription models are online all day answering questions putting their money where their mouth it. It's not the daily stock picker/trader, but their method for learning how to digest a balance sheet and look at the trends of the sector, macro as well. It's drinking from a fire hydrant at first, but then the flipping to google for defnitions goes away and at some point you go 'oh dang!'.
Honestly, I haven’t had a chance to dive into it just yet. Looking forward to it when things slow down. Not sure they ever really do tho.
 

8pointer

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Honestly, I haven’t had a chance to dive into it just yet. Looking forward to it when things slow down. Not sure they ever really do tho.
I understand completely....life gets nuts. Been a ride lately! China showing slowed growth all around, exports down, banks suffering defaults left and right their credit bubble is percolating on consumer, corporate you name it. Oh and by the way CNBC's Never Trumpers, progressives and Dems are even changing their tune now that the 10 year is showing signs of a 'bullish' trend now that the artificial bond buying is pulling back. Well duhhh....as if they didn't know the yield curve mantra was external pressure from people around the world freaking out at their own negative interest rate fiascos. They just pump the lies until they can't any longer then pretend they have found something no one else has. Sigh.
 

Dunraven

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Business should have a purpose - The improvement of the country and providing a good life for its workers and customers.

They are lucky they live in a free market economy.

Problem is we have allowed businesses to conglomerate to a point that now a few behemoths control everything.

The competition and choice that should drive innovation and force down costs doesnt really exist.

Now these guys that are left want to "park" everything in the status quo.
Please read Atlas Shrugged to address your statement on the 'purpose' of a business.
 

pmclaine

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Please read Atlas Shrugged to address your statement on the 'purpose' of a business.

You are right I do have to read it.....understand Ayn Rand is a little heavy in her style but I understand Atlas Shrugged is that important I need to read it.

Business has one purpose "Be profitable" so that it survives.

What I have noted from the best businesses is that the owners have a sense of "noblesse oblige" toward their workers.

A relationship results whereby the business works in the interests of the workers while in order to ensure the ultimate purpose "the survival of the business through profit at least able to keep the doors open" workers will sacrifice for the business.

Our local Democrats recently had their annual state meeting and touted the strength of unions as exampled by the unionized baggers, stockers, etc of Stop and Shop going on strike.

Stop and Shop is the highest priced grocery store around I infrequently visit it and just so happened to do so when they were on strike. Didnt even notice the strikers picketing until one of them called me out as I entered the store....."Look at him with his BIG American Flag on his T shirt going in the store".......Hey I needed some Bok Choy and truth be told bagging groceries is something high school kids should do at minimum wage but if everyone wants China making our shit this is where you end up.

The Stop and shop workers eventually won their strike and Im sure prices jumped even more in that grocery store. Now the workers lord their adverserial win against their management.

I contrast that to an incident with another local Supermarket chain - Market Basket.

Market Basket is a family owned chain that was run by two brothers. They went huge in this area, they have the best prices, I was a bagger/grocery stocker there during high school circa 1980s.

One of the brothers died and his side of the family decided to milk the cash cow and sell their interest of the business to the highest bidder. A "Shaws" or "Stop and Shop" would have had controlling interest in the company.

The other brother wanted to continue running the business knowing customers would lose out on a competitively priced shopping experience and he was concerned for the workers. Many workers had stories of bonuses given during hard times or just general great relationships with this brother.

As the negotiations to sell more than 50% of the family shares were on going all the workers walked off the job stating they would not be back unless the surviving brother ran the business.

Every one of the 80 stores was dead in the water. The company value dumped and if the surviving family was looking to milk the cow they were fucked.

Took some time but the brother was able to buy the other shares and control 100%. He had to borrow so much he was sad he might actually have to raise his prices. All the original workers came back and I think they received back pay. I dont think he ever raised prices and last I heard support for the business was such he has repaid his loans.

That is a great business model.

You didnt hear about it though and the Communists wont celebrate it.

It doesnt fit the narrative. Capitalism is supposed to create slave like working conditions because management is always at odds with the interests of the workers.

Not always so....


Capitalism succeeds at supplying to the market what it needs when it needs it.

Communism supplies to the market what it thinks the market needs.
 
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pmclaine

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Please read Atlas Shrugged to address your statement on the 'purpose' of a business.

Been thinking more about Atlas Shrugged.

Economics is very impersonal and totally motivated by self interest.

Every interaction is motivated by "Whats in it for me".

The utility of any concern for customers or workers is purely driven by what it returns to the provider.

Sometimes cash is the exchange.

At some point a person may have so much cash it loses its value and some sort of "prestige" or "social recognition" becomes the exchange.

True altruists disregard "cash" no matter their holdings and always seek the "soul feeding".

No exchange ever occurs unless both sides view the exchange as "Getting one over on the other guy".

Whatever item is exchanged has less value than the item received in return at that moment.

This is pretty impersonal and cut throat self interest when boiled down to its bare bones.

No matter how "progressive" you think your business is it is all motivated by "Whats in it for me?"
 

W54/XM-388

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The problem occurs when you decide to go whole hog into one dogma or another.
Ayn Rand's "Selfish" philosophy while good was also not without it's flaws when taken a bit too extreme.
Her "Heroes" were a bit inhumanly 2 dimensional and not really like actual real people who almost always have flaws.
Her books almost fully ignore that a vast array of dedicated people are needed to let the "heroes" stay at the top and accomplish their goals.
Those underlings also have their own self interest to think about and unless they are treated / compensated in what they feel is fair, they are not going to support you.

Like most dogmas and philosophies, you need to look at the whole picture and sometimes adjust things.

Humans don't seem to like to do that and it's why history is now repeating itself.

Back in the late 1800s the economy was very much ruled with an iron fist by a bunch of elitist "industrialists" who believed in only doing things for their own good and treating others as badly as possible to maximize their profit.

That eventually led the public to push towards socialist policies and socialist government practices.

Then eventually things kind of swung back towards the middle.

Now once again big business is trying to keep all the money for themselves, treat their workers as disposable animals and destroy the middle class and all smaller business so once again you get just the super rich elites and everybody else is the poor / low class.

So once again the public is pushing towards communist / socialist governments / politicians / practices.

On both sides, the problem is once money & power get involved, nobody ever seems to think they have enough, they always need more and more.
Be it labor unions or politicians or businessmen etc.
 

Dunraven

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The problem occurs when you decide to go whole hog into one dogma or another.
Ayn Rand's "Selfish" philosophy while good was also not without it's flaws when taken a bit too extreme.
Her "Heroes" were a bit inhumanly 2 dimensional and not really like actual real people who almost always have flaws.
Her books almost fully ignore that a vast array of dedicated people are needed to let the "heroes" stay at the top and accomplish their goals.
Those underlings also have their own self interest to think about and unless they are treated / compensated in what they feel is fair, they are not going to support you.

Like most dogmas and philosophies, you need to look at the whole picture and sometimes adjust things.

Humans don't seem to like to do that and it's why history is now repeating itself.

Back in the late 1800s the economy was very much ruled with an iron fist by a bunch of elitist "industrialists" who believed in only doing things for their own good and treating others as badly as possible to maximize their profit.

That eventually led the public to push towards socialist policies and socialist government practices.

Then eventually things kind of swung back towards the middle.

Now once again big business is trying to keep all the money for themselves, treat their workers as disposable animals and destroy the middle class and all smaller business so once again you get just the super rich elites and everybody else is the poor / low class.

So once again the public is pushing towards communist / socialist governments / politicians / practices.

On both sides, the problem is once money & power get involved, nobody ever seems to think they have enough, they always need more and more.
Be it labor unions or politicians or businessmen etc.
[/QUOTE
business 'treats their employees like animals'?! What's your evidence? Wages are rising, unemployment at record lows, especially for minorities. Workers enjoy unprecedented mobility and opportunity. There are numerous stories of businesses passing on their tax breaks to employees. Only government can destroy the middle class through taxation. The point of Atlas Shrugged is that if every individual looked out for themselves, took care of themselves, instead of looking to take it from others, that is also best for society as a whole. Read it.
 

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business 'treats their employees like animals'?! What's your evidence?
At a certain point in time people are going to have to learn to read more and remember what is going on or at least how to search.
Try starting on your preferred search engine for something like "amazon employee bathroom breaks" and then see where your reading takes you.
Or try "Apple China worker conditions"
(I mean when your subcontracted employees have to have a riot to get a big corporation to stop using chemicals toxic enough that some workers died, to clean the screens on rich westerner's fondleslabs, you might be a bit evil).

I've probably read, studied & debated Ayn Rand's works more than most have. But I get her fanatic followers a bit upset because I learned long ago to never take everything you read at face value since rarely does one person have a complete and full picture of how things should be. Most systems imagined have been tried somewhere in history and usually the more dogmatic it was practiced the worse the outcome.

Rather than looking for someone to hand you a prepackaged dogma that is the perfect solution, you want to read what they have to say, then do your own thinking on how it can be applied & the benefits / problems / limitations and virtues of it.
 
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tomcatmv

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This is a good summation of critical thinking (which is sadly lacking in our country).