Sandman S POI Shift This Time...All Fixed

opus56

Online Training Member
Online Training Access
Minuteman
Apr 24, 2018
30
42
24
Utah
www.sagerssohne.com
Hey everyone,

I recently got my Sandman S and am using it on a couple of different rifles using their keymount brake on both rifles. On my 224 Grendel (AR15 platform) the POI shift with suppressor is what I would say is very normal, a .3 mil shift. But on my AR10 (.308), the shift is 8 mils right and 3 mils up. With that much change I figured there must be something else going on, like maybe scope or scope mount...but the optics are all good.

Anyhow, I put the Area 419 brake back on which I've had on the rifle since I built it, rezeroed, and the rifle shot as expected. Then I put the keymount brake on again, rezeroed, and the rifle shot as expected. But as soon as I put on the Sandman, the POI shift is huge and it's not consistent either. It's not like it prints 1/2 MOA groups at 8 mils right and 3 mils up. It won't shoot even a 3 MOA group. No evidence of a baffle strike. Everything looks normal.

The AR10 has a Lothar Walther KA profile 20" barrel and it's been a consistent 1/2 MOA shooter ever since I assembled the rifle. Could I have a bad keymount brake?

Thanks in advance for your help.
 

opus56

Online Training Member
Online Training Access
Minuteman
Apr 24, 2018
30
42
24
Utah
www.sagerssohne.com
Besides checking the barrel threads, it sounds like it could also be an issue w/ the spacers DA provides with their keymount brakes?
 

Pvt.Donut

Private
Belligerents
Apr 4, 2017
145
30
34
How is your Keymount mounted to the 308? You're using the supplied shims right and not a crush washer or something?
 

opus56

Online Training Member
Online Training Access
Minuteman
Apr 24, 2018
30
42
24
Utah
www.sagerssohne.com
How is your Keymount mounted to the 308? You're using the supplied shims right and not a crush washer or something?
Yes, I used the Dead Air shim kit. I also contacted Dead Air and they are sending me another keymount brake to try. Along with that I'm going to use a section of 19/64" drill rod to see how the suppressor lines up w/ the bore. If I don't get the results I'm looking for, I'll pull the barrel and have the thread concentricity checked.
 

opus56

Online Training Member
Online Training Access
Minuteman
Apr 24, 2018
30
42
24
Utah
www.sagerssohne.com
Got the 19/64" rod today and the suppressor is definitely not concentric to the bore. Once I get the new keymount brake, I'll take a look again. I'm hoping it's the mount and not the barrel...but I guess we'll see.7043538
 

opus56

Online Training Member
Online Training Access
Minuteman
Apr 24, 2018
30
42
24
Utah
www.sagerssohne.com
Update...

Got the new keymount brake from Dead Air, tried it and still got the same misalignment. Fortunately for me, Dead Air has an office in UT, so I paid them a visit. They took the silencer and test mounted it on several rifles they had there, used their own alignment rod and found that there was an issue with the silencer. Right then they packaged it up and shipped it to their manufacturing facility to get it fixed. I was able to chat with Mike Pappas and his guys at their office. They are a bunch of good dudes and didn't hesitate one second to get me taken care of. Once the silencer is fixed, they'll test fire it and get it back to me.

Just wanted to give everyone an update and say thanks to Mike and his guys for getting this sorted out for me...great customer service from a great company and great bunch of guys.

Edit: One more cool thing regarding their support, even though the can itself had the issue, they let me keep the replacement keymount brake they sent me for free to test. Guess I need to build another rifle. :)
 
Last edited:

opus56

Online Training Member
Online Training Access
Minuteman
Apr 24, 2018
30
42
24
Utah
www.sagerssohne.com
One last update. I received my Sandman S back from Dead Air after being repaired. I was able to take it out last night to test it with my .308 AR10 and .224 Grendel AR15. I'm happy to say everything is working as expected. The POI shift on the .308 was what I would expect, about .3 mils down, and it was about the same on the .224 Grendel. Both rifles shot great and now I can get back to tuning the handloads when shooting suppressed.

I'll also mention I added their E-Brake to the Sandman S and I'm very pleased w/ the recoil / muzzle flip reduction it provides. Going from an Area419 Hellfire brake on the .308 to just the Sandman was definitely an increase in felt recoil, but with the E-Brake, it's definitely better, but still not as good as just the Hellfire.

Thanks to Rodney and Mike at Dead Air for getting my Sandman S sorted out. Great guys and great customer support. I also ordered a Sandman K before their price increase took place at the beginning of April. It'll be fun to see how the two compare side by side.

The target is 8 shots with the .308 @ 100 yds, 3 w/ just the can and 5 with the E-Brake added.

7062258

7062259

7062257
 

Chrisp

Private
Minuteman
Mar 24, 2019
8
3
6
Thanks for sharing the positive experience, good to hear considering I recently ordered a Nomad!
 
  • Like
Reactions: opus56

awpk03s

Private
Belligerents
Jun 17, 2017
198
54
34
Ohio
Thanks for the feedback and pics of the Sandman and E Brake.
I have a Sandman-S in ATF jail now, was considering whether or not to add the Nomad brake or wait for the dedicated Sandman diameter one (which they announced some time ago) but I like the functionality of the larger one with the cover...