PVA John Hancock Rifle Status

Skeetshooter

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Feb 3, 2019
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I have emailed them for an update but no reply. I have 2 John Hancock rifles on order, April of '18 and December '18. One for me and another for my son. Would just like to know that eventually they will fill the order or ...not.
 

black5.3

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I have no dog in this fight because i have nothing on order from PVA.... i have heard good things about their quality and rifle work, have even contemplated doing a prefit through them... but i can honestly say, if i had 2 rifles on order through them from April and December of 2018 and there had been no type of correspondence regarding the status or what had been completed on the rifles then I would have pulled out about 6 months ago... this post is in no way a bash to PVA but if any gunsmith told me they were too busy or couldn’t get parts to have my rifle completed in a reasonable time then I would be on to the next one. I understand a lot of you guys never saw this coming or maybe feel kinda obligated to PVA but with these kind of wait times I would have been long gone from the wait list for a JHR.
 
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TM6

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I have emailed them for an update but no reply. I have 2 John Hancock rifles on order, April of '18 and December '18. One for me and another for my son. Would just like to know that eventually they will fill the order or ...not.

Skeetshooter,

Maybe you could get through to them on their facebook page, they seem to be active there as they have responded to individual inquires just yesterday.

Also, for those looking for prefits, they have 80-90 surplus barrels that they are clearing out, sale starts today at 2:00pm EST.


TM6
 

rth1800

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If someone is set on a PVA build I have a great Surgeon in AIAX I will part with. Like new and very accurate. Well finished.
 

SpeedyR

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Skeetshooter,

Maybe you could get through to them on their facebook page, they seem to be active there as they have responded to individual inquires just yesterday.

Also, for those looking for prefits, they have 80-90 surplus barrels that they are clearing out, sale starts today at 2:00pm EST.


TM6
I guess that shows that they have the barrels for the JH that I ordered a year ago in stock and ready to go. Not 100% sure on the contour of the JH but at this point I'd take any of the listed 6.5cm 24-26" barrels if they could get me a JH barreled action and I can get the rest of the parts on my own.
 

TM6

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I guess that shows that they have the barrels for the JH that I ordered a year ago in stock and ready to go. Not 100% sure on the contour of the JH but at this point I'd take any of the listed 6.5cm 24-26" barrels if they could get me a JH barreled action and I can get the rest of the parts on my own.

I believe the contour for the complete JHR is the #23 Marksman Contour developed by HawkHill Barrels. If you ordered a barreled receiver, you could specify your contour. Sure hope that they take care of you and the other investors that got the project off the ground(funded the project from your down payments).

TM6
 

b6graham

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I believe the contour for the complete JHR is the #23 Marksman Contour developed by HawkHill Barrels. If you ordered a barreled receiver, you could specify your contour. Sure hope that they take care of you and the other investors that got the project off the ground(funded the project from your down payments).

TM6
i was thinking it was just a medium palma, but either way its a tiny contour
 

TM6

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i was thinking it was just a medium palma, but either way its a tiny contour

You are probably correct, its been well over a year since I considered purchasing a JHR and the details are a blur at this point.

TM6
 

rth1800

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The fact that PVA has not jumped in should tell you all you need to know about their intentions of making this right.
 

bohem

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The fact that PVA has not jumped in should tell you all you need to know about their intentions of making this right.
For goodness sakes...
I found out about this thread approximately 3 minutes ago... I'm going to go read it so I can see what the rumor mill has created based on non-information and I'll be back.
 
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WVHick

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For goodness sakes...
I found out about this thread approximately 3 minutes ago... I'm going to go read it so I can see what the rumor mill has created based on non-information and I'll be back.
Here’s another one to get caught up on and reply to while you’re at it.

 

bohem

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The Hancock is late and as folks call we have been offering the option to them that started this thread. I get that folks don't want to wait. We told everyone up front and reiterated it months ago that we took the nominal deposit to cover the taxes on the order. Since that's toast we're offering folks a $275 store credit if they want to cancel.

We've spent the better part of the last 6 months catching up from a number of pains that plagued us for 2 years. Growing pains some would call them, though they're rathertorturous to experience firsthand. We talked about it months ago with not getting barrels, not having actions, not having stocks, etc. We also put new machinery in place, moved the shop, expanded capabilities, put new processes for quality control in place, et al. THere have been thousands of hours spent in the last 2 years just getting to where we process orders in a reasonable time with the ability to support customers.

We pushed the business in another direction after the last 2+ years of struggling with getting parts for various projects. We are focusing on what folks need to shoot. That would be barrels and barrel accessories that support folks getting to do their own rifle assembly at home. It cuts down on how many vendors and avenues we divert attention to in order to facilitate customers.

We started contouring in house last year, there were problems with that but we are in solid shape on it now. We've also started lapping all our own barrels in house; this cuts down on lead times for supplies. It's hard to cut what you don't have. Which brings up barrel orders:

Barrel orders were really bad a year ago, going on 8 months for a simple prefit. It's pretty hard to cut what you don't have.
So we cut down on certain options. Lengths are limited to 26" max, you can get a button or a cut rifled barrel. Folks have also gotten a lot of experience with our button spec in the last 2 years and it shows. Folks know the quality of a good button barrel is no different than what the internet might say about it. We cut a LOT of button barrels for folks and the lead times are generally running about 2-3 weeks on them. Some are longer, it's inevitable when we're talking about custom barrels.

Brakes, barrel nuts, mag kits, thread protectors and all the other stuff that we make in order to support cutting barrels take time and we've put stacks of those on the shelf.

There's a lot more to running through what's happening here than I have time to sit and detail. I don't spend my days on this forum. In fact, while I spend a lot of time working on computers each day it's mostly on CNC controls and in CAM software working through and streamlining our capabilities.

Our products are better than they have been at any other time and the lead times are below what they've been... they're also a lot lower than the majority of other shops turning out custom barrels at even higher prices. We ran a sale to help Rock Creek move some inventory they got screwed over this summer, over 200 barrels ordered and shipped in 30 days. People still call and say "hey, I got one of those and it's the best barrel I've ever had. Do you have any more?"

I made a promise to customers this summer that barrels are going to be on time, we put a lot of blanks on the shelf in a stockpile to make that happen. We've stopped trying to stock other people's parts, being the middle man in this industry has proven impossible. We can barrel anything and we make a wider range of pre-fit barrels (shouldered or barrel nut style) than anyone else out there. Our prices are also substantially lower than anyone else who is selling a comparable product.

I went through 3 different barrel makers this year. All 3 took PO's, claimed 10-12weeks for cut rifled barrels and kept pushing the delivery. We actually got product from 1 of them, 12 weeks late, and only 75% of the order actually showed up. So to those counting, that's 24 weeks from when we issued a PO to get the barrels an incomplete order.


I don't have time to sit on a forum and post dildo pics. Instead I'm cutting barrels and making sure our products go out the door correctly. I don't want our customers to end up with things like burrs stuck in the muzzle like others have experienced with someone else on here... incidentally which I was asked to diagnose and fix.

Our communications have improved drastically as Joe came on board. He's been here for 6 weeks. In the past 4 weeks I have not seen the inboxes out of touch by more than an hour or two at most. First thing in the morning, sure, but that is fixed by 830 or 9am. THe phones are answered, folks get the answers to questions and things are going much more smoothly than they have in the past.

I know folks had a lot of problems with us. There doesn't seem to be a way to convince people that we're putting the growing pains behind us except by showing it. For those quoting experiences from a year ago or even 6 months ago, I think we've made huge strides in where we were. Old experience isn't always relevant.


I believe the contour for the complete JHR is the #23 Marksman Contour developed by HawkHill Barrels.
The contour is not a Marksman, it's a Medium Palma. I think our website actually says Medium Palma but it's been long enough since I read the description that I don't remember for sure. The Marksman is appx 0.88 at the muzzle and the MP is about 0.83

Here’s another one to get caught up on and reply to while you’re at it.

THanks. I replied over there as well.
 

Sheldon N

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I don't have time to sit on a forum and post dildo pics.
I just have to say this made me laugh. Always good to have a bit of levity in the day. :)

Kudos to you Josh for putting your head down and working on it. A couple years of smooth running on the business and all these gripes will be a thing of the past and a long forgotten memory.

Heck, if things go well enough the business will run itself and you can have more free time to design cool stuff like Flatlines or new products...... or sit on forums and post dildo pics. Whatever floats your boat. :)
 

Long Range 338

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bohem

Glad to see you able to post here and clear the air. What is your expectation concerning the JHR? Are they going to be trickling out or are you going to try to focus a big push? Sounds like you are focusing your efforts on barrels and such. As this thread is specific to the JHR I didn't see that you addressed the JHR delivery.

By the way I'm not waiting on a JHR, I purchased one second hand and it is amazing. I would definitely consider purchasing another at some point depending on lead times.

Glad to hear you are pushing forward.
 

WVHick

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So I may have missed the answer, but what’s the word on people’s JHR they’ve been waiting forever on? It’s been stated in this thread by other industry folks that the actions are readily available, you’ve stated you have a surplus of barrel blanks available, I can find every color of KRG Bravo in stock around the internet so they’re clearly available.

So why are people still waiting on these rifles? Why is not filling these orders people have been waiting on for a year not being given priority?@bohem
 

rth1800

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You need to keep watching the shells so you will know which one the ball is under. 😉
 

spife7980

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I think this means to call in and cancel your Hancock order.
Put the credit towards a barrel.
You may regret the Hancock transaction but I doubt you regret the barrel.
 
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bohem

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bohem

Glad to see you able to post here and clear the air. What is your expectation concerning the JHR? Are they going to be trickling out or are you going to try to focus a big push? Sounds like you are focusing your efforts on barrels and such. As this thread is specific to the JHR I didn't see that you addressed the JHR delivery.

By the way I'm not waiting on a JHR, I purchased one second hand and it is amazing. I would definitely consider purchasing another at some point depending on lead times.

Glad to hear you are pushing forward.

Thank you for reminding me about the Hancock update, in all the writing above I missed it.
We are currently trickling them out. The Hancocks take a lot more work to get out the door than originally envisioned and that workload has grown as we assemble rifles and then have no-pay from customers. We've been trying to give the benefit of the doubt to folks but after 2 weeks the order goes to the next guy in line and they lose out.

Keeping the rest of the shop moving and improving is paramount. I cannot allow the entire business to stalemate over the remaining 40 or so rifles still outstanding. Someone else asked before and I didn't catch it til now but we've delivered about 75% of the Hancocks initially ordered.

As stated above, if deposit holders feel that they no longer want to wait we are offering a 110% ($275) credit on the deposit towards other work and products that we make.

We're also running a sale on the random barrels we have here that are a product of 2 years of mismatched orders, cancellations, double runs, overruns, etc. I need to clear out shelf space and organize some things to keep us moving in the right direction so we're offering a healthy discount on the stuff that's sitting here doing nothing. If someone wants to put their hancock deposit towards one of those we'll do it. Here's a link to the barrels in stock currently.


If you're a deposit holder and you want to take advantage of this please email us and we'll take care of the store credit and order swap over immediately.


The future of the Hancock is uncertain as it's proven to be an undertaking of enormous proportions for a business our size. And yes, I can see certain people in this thread going "yeah no shit". It may end up being that it's a limited thing and we never do it again but what both of us would like to see is a batched rifle where we make some, they go up for sale when finished, and there are no backorders. When they're available great, when they're gone then they're gone til the next batch is ready. At least that way the rifle can continue but it will mitigate a large number of the front end customer service complaints we're dealing with. I'm sure folks will still want to ask "when will..." but this will keep it manageable in the foreseeable future while we continue to maintain our other product lines that are so well enjoyed.

I'm glad to hear you like the rifle, thank you for the feedback on it. When you need another barrel for it I hope to see it come from us.


And with that, it's almost 1030 at night, I'm going home and probably won't be on here again for a while so that we can continue to work on the other issues in front of us. Inactivity by myself on this forum is an indicator of nothing more than me keeping busy doing productive work rather than sitting online.
 

Ckell89

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I did talk to Joe at PVA today and got 2 Jetblast brakes as a "refund" for the JHR for those interested in other avenues.
 
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patriot07

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Thank you for reminding me about the Hancock update, in all the writing above I missed it.
We are currently trickling them out. The Hancocks take a lot more work to get out the door than originally envisioned and that workload has grown as we assemble rifles and then have no-pay from customers. We've been trying to give the benefit of the doubt to folks but after 2 weeks the order goes to the next guy in line and they lose out.

Keeping the rest of the shop moving and improving is paramount. I cannot allow the entire business to stalemate over the remaining 40 or so rifles still outstanding. Someone else asked before and I didn't catch it til now but we've delivered about 75% of the Hancocks initially ordered.

As stated above, if deposit holders feel that they no longer want to wait we are offering a 110% ($275) credit on the deposit towards other work and products that we make.

We're also running a sale on the random barrels we have here that are a product of 2 years of mismatched orders, cancellations, double runs, overruns, etc. I need to clear out shelf space and organize some things to keep us moving in the right direction so we're offering a healthy discount on the stuff that's sitting here doing nothing. If someone wants to put their hancock deposit towards one of those we'll do it. Here's a link to the barrels in stock currently.


If you're a deposit holder and you want to take advantage of this please email us and we'll take care of the store credit and order swap over immediately.


The future of the Hancock is uncertain as it's proven to be an undertaking of enormous proportions for a business our size. And yes, I can see certain people in this thread going "yeah no shit". It may end up being that it's a limited thing and we never do it again but what both of us would like to see is a batched rifle where we make some, they go up for sale when finished, and there are no backorders. When they're available great, when they're gone then they're gone til the next batch is ready. At least that way the rifle can continue but it will mitigate a large number of the front end customer service complaints we're dealing with. I'm sure folks will still want to ask "when will..." but this will keep it manageable in the foreseeable future while we continue to maintain our other product lines that are so well enjoyed.

I'm glad to hear you like the rifle, thank you for the feedback on it. When you need another barrel for it I hope to see it come from us.


And with that, it's almost 1030 at night, I'm going home and probably won't be on here again for a while so that we can continue to work on the other issues in front of us. Inactivity by myself on this forum is an indicator of nothing more than me keeping busy doing productive work rather than sitting online.
I've been critical of PVA for some of what's gone on, but I can't help but respect posts like this. Thanks for your contribution here bohem. Wish you guys the best in moving the business forward and trying to make things right for the growing pains that the business and customers have both had to endure.

I do think your potential future plan of building and then selling JHRs makes a ton of sense and I think you'd sell a bunch of them and have happier customers too.
 

brianf

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im trying to wrap my head around something..soi could be wrong

John hancock rifle:

Bravo chassis
Timney trigger
Barrel (rock creek)
Nuc action

if PVA is focusing (getting back to what they are good at) on barrels etc

what was the holdup with building rifles

the rest of these parts are available on the internet by tomorrow morning

the quality/tolerances of those components

spinning their own barrels

it should be like putting together a AR
2 action screws
2 trigger screws
tighten barrel
put in box and ship

unless they were bumping into the same issues with the nuc action that the ARC thread is dealing with

not causing trouble just trying to get more concrete info
 

b6graham

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im trying to wrap my head around something..soi could be wrong

John hancock rifle:

Bravo chassis
Timney trigger
Barrel (rock creek)
Nuc action

if PVA is focusing (getting back to what they are good at) on barrels etc

what was the holdup with building rifles

the rest of these parts are available on the internet by tomorrow morning

the quality/tolerances of those components

spinning their own barrels

it should be like putting together a AR
2 action screws
2 trigger screws
tighten barrel
put in box and ship

unless they were bumping into the same issues with the nuc action that the ARC thread is dealing with

not causing trouble just trying to get more concrete info
i would imagine the JHR feels a little different than if you were to assemble yourself. trigger/cocking piece timing, chassis and mag fitment, trigger testing, bump testing, etc
 

brianf

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i would imagine the JHR feels a little different than if you were to assemble yourself. trigger/cocking piece timing, chassis and mag fitment, trigger testing, bump testing, etc
Thanks for the reply.

Not being a smith...

Is that something that a company like AI Or DTA (quality high dollar full build rigs) does on each of their rifles.

Tweaking and massaging

Or are these particular components just not machined to tight enough specs across the board causing issues.

Which leads me to ask another question....of which I don’t know lol

If these are “tuned” and I buy a new bolt or trigger for some reason.

Would that mean I have to send it back for proper function testing?
 

b6graham

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Thanks for the reply.

Not being a smith...

Is that something that a company like AI Or DTA (quality high dollar full build rigs) does on each of their rifles.

Tweaking and massaging

Or are these particular components just not machined to tight enough specs across the board causing issues.

Which leads me to ask another question....of which I don’t know lol

If these are “tuned” and I buy a new bolt or trigger for some reason.

Would that mean I have to send it back for proper function testing?
my TL3 is timed to the Timney CE 2 stage. it may or may not feel the fame if i put a TT Diamond on it. advantage of boltface is that the rest doesnt change

this is the advantage of systems like AI or @THEIS and Hoplite. every component is made to work withself so the 'tuning' is essentially dont in design and R&D etc
 

j741

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im trying to wrap my head around something..soi could be wrong

John hancock rifle:

Bravo chassis
Timney trigger
Barrel (rock creek)
Nuc action
The action is not the off the shelf Nucleus. It has different markings on it and I'd think it has to be run in separate batches by ARC. I don't know how production of it happens so can't speak to if it may be the holdup. But It is different than off the shelf action. I'm not sure if PVA can just swap in the standard nucleus or if there are specific ATF rules around how the rifle is built. For those who don't fully care about Production class competition, may be worth asking Josh about just using standard Nucleus (or swapping to Origin)
 
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b6graham

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The action is not the off the shelf Nucleus. It has different markings on it and I'd think it has to be run in separate batches by ARC. I don't know how production of it happens so can't speak to if it may be the holdup. But It is different than off the shelf action. I'm not sure if PVA can just swap in the standard nucleus or if there are specific ATF rules around how the rifle is built. For those who don't fully care about Production class competition, may be worth asking Josh about just using standard Nucleus (or swapping to Origin)
it has been stated that ARC has a bunch of naked actions waiting to be stamped with either Nucleus of JHR, depending who pays for it
 

THEIS

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The action is not the off the shelf Nucleus.

Hi,

What is different other than the engraving information?
This is first I have heard of them being functionally different.

Not really wanting to get into a production debate nor a business bashing debate so I will keep real brief and on point.

Building a "production" version rifle from "universal" components is really less production version and more custom version.
The more components that are changeable the more "universal" you have to make the mating of those components.
The less components you actually have production control over equals the more you may end up having to tweak, file, etc etc...that can get into eating a shit load of time up.

Sincerely,
Theis
 

j741

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Hi,

What is different other than the engraving information?
This is first I have heard of them being functionally different.

Not really wanting to get into a production debate nor a business bashing debate so I will keep real brief and on point.

Building a "production" version rifle from "universal" components is really less production version and more custom version.
The more components that are changeable the more "universal" you have to make the mating of those components.
The less components you actually have production control over equals the more you may end up having to tweak, file, etc etc...that can get into eating a shit load of time up.

Sincerely,
Theis
Engraving/stamping is only difference. I don't know that it impacts production schedules or anything. just calling out that it is technically different.

But @b6graham also noted they are ready to be stamped for JHR, which I didn't look up the referenced post to confirm, buy my guess as to possible causes does seem incorrect in any case.
 

808caliber

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Sorry not JHR related. But has anyone heard from PVA today? Was talking to josh on IG a few days back in preparation for an all-composite stock. Just ordered last night but now see their IG is no longer up and i can't even message them on FB. Just want to make sure everything is ok. And i dont want to bug them with more emails or phone calls if not neccessary.
 

BLKWLFK9

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Only difference is the engraving, which in production standard, it might as well be a completely different action. If it were as easy as throwing a nuke into a chassis and throwing a barrel on, everyone would have their rifle. Not to mention, one of the biggest set backs was one of the shipments of Hancocks arrived to PVA with old parts (wrong firing pin spring and old style gen 1 bolt heads). I dont think anyone receiving their JHR would want the outdated components on their actions that they just paid and waited for. At the end of the day, if PVA isn't actually pumping the actions out of the machines themselves, they are at the mercy of the company doing so.
 

BLKWLFK9

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Sorry not JHR related. But has anyone heard from PVA today? Was talking to josh on IG a few days back in preparation for an all-composite stock. Just ordered last night but now see their IG is no longer up and i can't even message them on FB. Just want to make sure everything is ok. And i dont want to bug them with more emails or phone calls if not neccessary.

IG shut their shit down. The typical "violation of terms" bull shit line. Agency Arms, Military Arms, and multiple others have been shut down for the same "reason." Josh and PVA are fine. He's disputing it with IG now.
 

SonicBurlap

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IG shut their shit down. The typical "violation of terms" bull shit line. Agency Arms, Military Arms, and multiple others have been shut down for the same "reason." Josh and PVA are fine. He's disputing it with IG now.
More censorship from your not so friendly anti gun nannies. Time for a conservative and gun industry friendly social media and browser service.
 

BLKWLFK9

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More censorship from your not so friendly anti gun nannies. Time for a conservative and gun industry friendly social media and browser service.

There is. MeWe. It caught on for a little while a year or so ago when it came out that FB was whoring everyone's data to anyone with a dollar, but the retarded general public went back to their Masta.
 

SonicBurlap

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There is. MeWe. It caught on for a little while a year or so ago when it came out that FB was whoring everyone's data to anyone with a dollar, but the retarded general public went back to their Masta.
Yup, those leeks in Egypt are so much easier and tastier than having to get to milk and honey through the desert with the provision of manna, they can live with steady groveling and building a pyramid here and there, can't they?
 
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jbailey

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IG shut their shit down. The typical "violation of terms" bull shit line. Agency Arms, Military Arms, and multiple others have been shut down for the same "reason." Josh and PVA are fine. He's disputing it with IG now.
pardon my stupidity, but what does "IG" mean? Also, what "terms" were violated?
Sorry to betray my ignorance. thanks for any explanation.
 
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BLKWLFK9

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pardon my stupidity, but what does "IG" mean? Also, what "terms" were violated?
Sorry to betray my ignorance. thanks for any explanation.
Who fucking knows what "terms" were violated. NObody knows what terms are actually violated when banned from IG (instagram) and Facebook.
 
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CMP70306

Private
Belligerents
Feb 16, 2017
254
176
49
Apparently they were having a bunch of duplication issues, two of the three barrels I ordered are on that fall sale list but I got mine months ago.
 

benchmstr

Sergeant
Belligerents
Oct 10, 2007
735
156
49
CEO Team waffle house
Thanks for the reply.

Not being a smith...

Is that something that a company like AI Or DTA (quality high dollar full build rigs) does on each of their rifles.

Tweaking and massaging

Or are these particular components just not machined to tight enough specs across the board causing issues.

Which leads me to ask another question....of which I don’t know lol

If these are “tuned” and I buy a new bolt or trigger for some reason.

Would that mean I have to send it back for proper function testing?
 

FbSa

Private
Minuteman
Oct 22, 2018
7
5
6
Anyone gotten any more recent updates on their rifles? I called back in July and they said it should be in the next batch of rifles, called again in September and was told they were waiting on parts. Couple weeks away from my two month checkup and just wondering if anyone had any positive news.
 

SpeedyR

Private
Belligerents
Feb 8, 2009
179
54
34
ATL
I got the "waiting on parts" last month. Headed to a show this week and will start the search again for a rifle. Worst case use the credit for something they have in stock or towards a barrel for a different action and just move into a full custom.
 

Bitjglr

Private
Minuteman
Dec 8, 2018
9
13
6
Anyone gotten any more recent updates on their rifles? I called back in July and they said it should be in the next batch of rifles, called again in September and was told they were waiting on parts. Couple weeks away from my two month checkup and just wondering if anyone had any positive news.

PVA stated earlier in the tread that Hancock's are trickling out. They are encouraging folks to take a $275 store credit to some other product.
 
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