POF and my Incredibly Disappointing Experience......

Voyager1

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I purchased a POF 6.8 SPC back in 2015 from POF. I never shot it as I was working overseas for Uncle Sam. When I returned from a tour approximately a year later, I took the rifle to shoot although It wouldn’t shoot straight. I was home to see my family for a couple of weeks before returning overseas for another deployment so trouble shooting the issue wasn’t a priority (never did I think that I would purchase NIB 2K dollar plus rifle with a sub MOA Guarantee to only later learn that the rifle was sold to me with a defective barrel). How can a rifle be test fired and given a sub MOA Guarantee that has a bad barrel? Is that even possible?

I tried to contact POF a couple of times but always received their answering machine and no one ever reached out to me. Back over seas I went and forgot about it. After 4 years of traveling, I finally returned home and had some time to shoot. I took my POF 6.8 SPC out and shot it on several occasions but was never able to determine why it wouldn’t shoot straight. I changed optics, mounts, and shooters, but still the same result. I eventually came to the conclusion that POF sold me a defective rifle with a bad barrel.

I called them and a sales rep named Scott told me that they no longer sold the 6.8 SPC rifle but that he would look and see if they had any barrels in reserve. If not, they would instead provide a selection of either a 20” POF Valkyrie, 16” 300 BO, 16” 7.62x39 or 5.56. I wasn’t happy about any of the scenarios but I thought at least I have the option of a 20” Valkyrie that I could then sell (I already had purchased (8) 6.8 SPC Mags along with approximately 2000 rounds of 6.8 SPC ammo (1000 rounds of Hornady SST 120 grain in case the Hildabeast became president or Obozo managed to outlaw AR’s (planning for possible scenarios)....

POF instructed that I ship the rifle back. A week later I received an email detailing my situation along with my summation which was correct. The rifle indeed had a bad barrel; however suddenly, they could now no longer give me what I stated I would take in consolation; a 20” Valkyrie.

THe sales rep told me he “misspoke” and that they couldn’t provide for me the Valkyrie caliber. He then said that they could re-barrel my rifle for 5.56 (I already have more 5.56’s than I need plus I didn’t spend 2300 dollars to buy a 16” 5.56....or they would re-barrel my rifle to a 300 Blackout. I already have two Daniel Defense 300 blackout Rifles and don’t need another. they could also re-barrel it for me to a a 7.62x39 (of which I have 3 Arsenal variant AK’s in 7.62x39).

I explained to Scott that this is not what He told me. He then proceeded to state that if I wanted a POF Valkyrie, They would be happy to sell me their upper for the discounted price of approximately 1000.00 dollars. He said, “our legal obligations only require us to rebarrel your rifle. I suggest you take the re-barreled 5.56 and sell the upper and use that money to pay for the Valkyrie”. I was so disappointed to hear this from a supposedly “great company”.

This is extremely disheartening because this is the first time I’ve ever used POF customer service (unfortunately I amassed (6) of their rifles including (2) 308’s and 3 5.56’s. I’ve barely shot any of them and it leaves an awful bitter taste in my mouth. I want nothing to do with them. I have given them a lot of business over the years (approximately 12,000 dollars worth). Suddenly, when you actually need them to come thru for you all they have are excuses and what they are required to provide for me by law. I personally have never had this kind of service before.

I wanted to ask my fellow hide members if my expectations are too high? Am I being unreasonable that they at least try to help me find a solution that I would be marginally happy with even if it’s not what I had hoped for.
I didn’t want the Valkyrie caliber to begin with; It just seemed like a reasonable alternative so that I could then sell the rifle and the ammo and mags then hopefully recoup about 35% -40%of what I paid.


I’m asking for insight and perspective. There are always two sides to every story and I’ll be happy to print their responses with names redacted if anyone would like to see them. I feel so incredibly let down!!!! They NEVER HAD MY BACK..... Is POF right here and I’m not seeing it because I have so much financially invested in this system and they are UNWILLING to assist me?

I’m not whining. I want to know from other hide members if my feelings are vindicated or my expectations are just to high? Additionally, if any Hide member could offer me suggestions I could bring to POF, I would be most graciously appreciative.

Thank you for reading this long diatribe in advance....

Doc David M.D. PhD
 
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Blutroop

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When they pull that “by law” crap is when you need to tell them you purchased a 6.8spc and you will only accept a 6.8spc. Furthermore they need to cover shipping both ways. If they still want to pull that lawyer crap tell em you want a complete refund on ALL your pof rifles. Depending on their warantee you shouldn’t need to much of a lawyer and you could do lots of damage to them just by putting the truth out there on social media. If you want to unload some of those 6.8 mags I’d be interested. Is this the same pof that made that carbon ar15 before bushmaster bought the rights?
 

Voyager1

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When they pull that “by law” crap is when you need to tell them you purchased a 6.8spc and you will only accept a 6.8spc. Furthermore they need to cover shipping both ways. If they still want to pull that lawyer crap tell em you want a complete refund on ALL your pof rifles. Depending on their warantee you shouldn’t need to much of a lawyer and you could do lots of damage to them just by putting the truth out there on social media. If you want to unload some of those 6.8 mags I’d be interested. Is this the same pof that made that carbon ar15 before bushmaster bought the rights?
Curious, do you have any references on why I should go about doing it this way? I’m incredibly disgusted already, and I am not dealing from a position of strength. How I could get a refund on all of my POF rifles is beyond me. That would be great considering the way I am feeling but I sincerely doubt they care. They know I’m Ex military officer (05) and a doctor.

Their response (per the wording of the letter) I received in return seemed as though he could give rats rear end..... additionally, it’s hard to sue someone out of state. If it was more then 10K I would say it’s worth it but not for < 5K unless someone has suggestions....
 
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endo304

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May 25, 2019
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Wow ... UNACCEPTABLE!! Hearing your situation has me boiling. I can’t believe that they’re unwilling to have another barrel spun up for you after they confirmed it was bad. Especially, considering your loyalty as a customer and the money you've spent with them. What would that set them back, $150-300? Unbelievable!

I know who I’ll never consider purchasing from now. Hope this works out somehow for you.
 

RifleBlog

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I live not far from POF and we see a lot of their stuff in classes, at the range and through the shop that I help out at.

More often than not, their stuff has issues. To be honest, it really really surprised me to hear Frank / Lowlight talk so highly of them as a lot of people have had tremendous issues with their product and had poor customer service.

I would cut my losses, hit the phones and send the rifle to a competent gunsmith that specializes in gas-gun barrels. I’d bet that Craddock Precision, Compass Lake or others can rectify this for a few hundred dollars.

You should know better than anyone that your time is more valuable than the idiots at POF. Don’t spin your wheels trying to make them better people;if you google “POF problems” you’ll find many people in the same boat as yourself.

Also, I forgot where I read it, but when POF put out that press release about their ban-state compliant “Single Shot AR” that had to be racked every round.....somebody commented “How is this a new product?Nearly every POF I’ve ever seen wouldn’t fire two rounds in succession without the charging handle”
 

Voyager1

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Wow ... UNACCEPTABLE!! Hearing your situation has me boiling. I can’t believe that they’re unwilling to have another barrel spun up for you after they confirmed it was bad. Especially, considering your loyalty as a customer and the money you've spent with them. What would that set them back, $150-300? Unbelievable!

I know who I’ll never consider purchasing from now. Hope this works out somehow for you.
Thank you for confirming why I’m so upset. I wish there was a way that I could get this resolved without roiling them, myself and everyone else.....
 
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Voyager1

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I live not far from POF and we see a lot of their stuff in classes, at the range and through the shop that I help out at.

More often than not, their stuff has issues. To be honest, it really really surprised me to hear Frank / Lowlight talk so highly of them as a lot of people have had tremendous issues with their product and had poor customer service.

I would cut my losses, hit the phones and send the rifle to a competent gunsmith that specializes in gas-gun barrels. I’d bet that Craddock Precision, Compass Lake or others can rectify this for a few hundred dollars.

You should know better than anyone that your time is more valuable than the idiots at POF. Don’t spin your wheels trying to make them better people;if you google “POF problems” you’ll find many people in the same boat as yourself.

Also, I forgot where I read it, but when POF put out that press release about their ban-state compliant “Single Shot AR” that had to be racked every round.....somebody commented “How is this a new product?Nearly every POF I’ve ever seen wouldn’t fire two rounds in succession without the charging handle”
LMAO....that’s funny...thank you for the great laugh this morning. .
Thank you!!!
 
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Voyager1

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Get a barrel from somewhere else. It will be cheaper than a “discounted” upper and you’ll have a 6.8 like you wanted. Then never buy a POF. Pretty simple.
Yes, Unfortunately, I learned the hard way.....
 

CNJarvis

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You're right, that's horsecrap.

I wonder: If you have them rebarrel it in 5.56, they're out the time and expense of providing you with a new barrel and bolt. When it's returned, sell the barrel and bolt to offset the cost of a new 6.8 barrel & bolt. You're still out some $, but at least you can recover some of the cost at their expense.
 

Voyager1

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You're right, that's horsecrap.

I wonder: If you have them rebarrel it in 5.56, they're out the time and expense of providing you with a new barrel and bolt. When it's returned, sell the barrel and bolt to offset the cost of a new 6.8 barrel & bolt. You're still out some $, but at least you can recover some of the cost at their expense.
Remember that this is a piston firearm with a unique proprietary system . I’m not certain If other companies are able to manufacture barrels with proprietary gas systems....
Get a barrel from somewhere else. It will be cheaper than a “discounted” upper and you’ll have a 6.8 like you wanted. Then never buy a POF. Pretty simple.
GophersLAyer and CJNARVIS, I’m not certain whether I could get another company to manufacture a 6.8SPC Barrel and gas system that would function with their uppers???

Thank you all for the great suggestions...please keep me coming, you are all fantastic people!
 
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CNJarvis

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I didn’t realize it was a piston upper. In this case, I’d still have them rebarrel it, then sell it to offset the cost of a new 6.8 upper.
 
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Voyager1

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I didn’t realize it was a piston upper. In this case, I’d still have them rebarrel it, then sell it to offset the cost of a new 6.8 upper.

Thank you for the thoughts. It irks me as they wanted to rebarrel it, and then have me buy their Valkyrie upper as if they are doing me a favor when they know it’s a consolation. I guess they believe somehow I’m working the system when the last thing I wanted is a new caliber! 😫
 

slayer 2c

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Did they tell you what the defect was with the one you have? Could a competent smith fix it? I think that POF has been around long enough that their proprietary piston system has been out long enough someone should be able to fix it. Now you should not have to pay for that, and maybe suggesting that POF pick up the tab to make this correct is a better way. After reading your posts I can only assume that they wouldn't be willing to do that but its an option.
 
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Voyager1

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Did they tell you what the defect was with the one you have? Could a competent smith fix it? I think that POF has been around long enough that their proprietary piston system has been out long enough someone should be able to fix it. Now you should not have to pay for that, and maybe suggesting that POF pick up the tab to make this correct is a better way. After reading your posts I can only assume that they wouldn't be willing to do that but its an option.
Thank you for the suggestion. I asked Scott over the phone if they would just buy me a new barrel and they were adamant about not doing this. They only want to use what they have in stock. I have a feeling they aren’t doing well financially. I may be wrong but that kind of horrible customer service who would be surprised?
 
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Snuby642

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When a company stops servicing its products they lose all credibility, especially for a repeat customer of "upper tier" products.

I avoid as much proprietary foundation parts as possible.
 
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Voyager1

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When a company stops servicing its products they lose all credibility, especially for a repeat customer of "upper tier" products.

I avoid as much proprietary foundation parts as possible.
I understand your reasoning. I still trust long established companies like Knights Armament or HK as My experiences with them have always been reasonable. However POF does not have that established trust nor reputation. They are OBVIOUSLY not customer oriented and it sounds like they are struggling to establish a terrible reputation after being on the market for about 10 years plus....

after this, How could I ever, ever, trust them? I am bitter because I never knew that a company that is trying to cater to the military, law enforcement contracts etc. would just turn its back on some of its best customers. It really gives me pause as to wonder whether they are financially viable for the long haul......
 
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TxWelder35

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That's a sorry thing for them to do. Especially to vet. Buying a new barrel shouldn't be a big deal.

I'd just ask for the rifle back as is, and send it off the barrel maker. Proprietary or not a barrel is just a hunk of steel that's machined a certain way. A good barrel maker should be able to pull specs off what you have and spin you up a new barrel
 

THEIS

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Hi,

@Voyager1
Did you register your POF products into their warranty system?

Because their warranty states:
All POF-USA firearms have a 100% satisfaction guarantee and have a limited lifetime warranty. POF-USA firearms are warranted against defects in material and workmanship for the life of the firearm regardless of ownership.

So taking that into account:
By their own words they are required to provide you with a 6.8 barrel that is free of defects and workmanship issues.

Sincerely,
Theis
 

Voyager1

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I did. I didn’t matter. Do I have any options? See below...suing them for this is not something I want to do. good money after bad....IMHO
@Voyager1
Did you register your POF products into their warranty system?

Because their warranty states:
All POF-USA firearms have a 100% satisfaction guarantee and have a limited lifetime warranty. POF-USA firearms are warranted against defects in material and workmanship for the life of the firearm regardless of ownership.

So taking that into account:
By their own words they are required to provide you with a 6.8 barrel that is free of defects and workmanship issues.

Sincerely,
Theis
Theirs is is EXACTLY WHAT THEY WROTE...It sounds very lawyerly....you and everyone following this thread be the judge. There are two sides to every story and I believe in transparency....All of you be the judge and tell me your thoughts....

Doc.....

I am not thrilled with the way things are either, sadly our options are limited. I really wish that we had the opportunity to fix this years ago when we had the 6.8 and you originally knew about these issues, but that time has passed. The warranty covers the reasonable replacement of the part that is the issue, which in this case is the barrel. That would mean that we would cover a barrel and a gas block under warranty.



The problem with the .224 Valkyrie is that it has a rifle length gas system, which would leave your gas block fully exposed, which we will not do for liability reasons. We could re-rail the rifle to a 14.5” rail with no window that will have the Dictator DI gas block just barely poking out the front for $275. We would then have to get you a new BCG, which is another $275. At that point you would still have a franken-gun.



Were I you, I would take the offer to get it re-barreled into .223/5.56 and simply sell the upper. I could get you a deal instead on a brand new factory .224 Valkyrie upper for $947.99, free shipping and it would have the full Renegade+ loadout including the ambi charging handle and the lower profile handguard without being a franken-gun.



Selling the upper, since you already have a few others in .223 will easily pay for the Renegade+ upper and you could sell it in good conscience knowing that you arent offloading a problem barrel onto someone else.



Warm regards,

POF
 
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acudaowner

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i am glad you were able to figure out what your problem was / is . I hope your issue is taken care of fixed and quickly rectified .
.
 
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Voyager1

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I am not thrilled with the way things are either, sadly our options are limited. I really wish that we had the opportunity to fix this years ago when we had the 6.8 and you originally knew about these issues, but that time has passed. The warranty covers the reasonable replacement of the part that is the issue, which in this case is the barrel. That would mean that we would cover a barrel and a gas block under warranty.



The problem with the .224 Valkyrie is that it has a rifle length gas system, which would leave your gas block fully exposed, which we will not do for liability reasons. We could re-rail the rifle to a 14.5” rail with no
i am glad you were able to figure out what your problem was / is . I hope your issue is taken care of fixed and quickly rectified .
they aren’t going to fix it. They want me to give me a barrel that I don’t want nor need. I knew what was wrong when I sent it in...
 

TxWelder35

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I did. They don’t care. Do I have any options? See below...suing them for this is good money after bad....IMHO

Theirs is is EXACTLY WHAT THEY WROTE...It sounds very weaselly....you and everyone following this thread be the judge. There are two sides to every story and I believe in transparency....All of you be the judge and tell me your thoughts....

Doctor.....

I am not thrilled with the way things are either, sadly our options are limited. I really wish that we had the opportunity to fix this years ago when we had the 6.8 and you originally knew about these issues, but that time has passed. The warranty covers the reasonable replacement of the part that is the issue, which in this case is the barrel. That would mean that we would cover a barrel and a gas block under warranty.



The problem with the .224 Valkyrie is that it has a rifle length gas system, which would leave your gas block fully exposed, which we will not do for liability reasons. We could re-rail the rifle to a 14.5” rail with no window that will have the Dictator DI gas block just barely poking out the front for $275. We would then have to get you a new BCG, which is another $275. At that point you would still have a franken-gun.



Were I you, I would take the offer to get it re-barreled into .223/5.56 and simply sell the upper. I could get you a deal instead on a brand new factory .224 Valkyrie upper for $947.99, free shipping and it would have the full Renegade+ loadout including the ambi charging handle and the lower profile handguard without being a franken-gun.



Selling the upper, since you already have a few others in .223 will easily pay for the Renegade+ upper and you could sell it in good conscience knowing that you arent offloading a problem barrel onto someone else.



Warm regards,

POF
Sounds like quite the hassle for the OP given it wasn't his fault this problem happened. So sorry he had to be deployed oversees and had other things on his mind. Why is it his fault that you manufacturered a product and quite supporting it even though it had a lifetime guarantee? He bought a 6.8spc with a lifetime guarantee. Not a 6.8 that if it has problems he gets a 223 in exchange.

You owe him a new 6.8 barrel. Anything else is a cop out and weaseling your way out of your guarantee.

Or refund him 100% for the rifle.
 

TxWelder35

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Sounds like quite the hassle for the OP given it wasn't his fault this problem happened. So sorry he had to be deployed oversees and had other things on his mind. Why is it his fault that you manufacturered a product and quite supporting it even though it had a lifetime guarantee? He bought a 6.8spc with a lifetime guarantee. Not a 6.8 that if it has problems he gets a 223 in exchange.

You owe him a new 6.8 barrel. Anything else is a cop out and weaseling your way out of your guarantee.

Or refund him 100% for the rifle.
Just realized you are the OP just posting the response from POF. That's what I would have said to them.
 

Voyager1

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Just realized you are the OP just posting the response from POF. That's what I would have said to them.
So I’m essentially grasping at straws hoping that someone can pull a rabbit out of a hat. I sincerely appreciate everyone’s insight as I have been as fair as I could be. I never would come to this professional forum to bash anyone. I’m hoping I can achieve an equitable solution. Hiring an attorney is not something I want to do....I might as well buy an another Accuracy International...

KEEP YOUR IDEAS coming.

Warmly,
David
 
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TxWelder35

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So I’m essentially grasping at straws hoping that someone can pull a rabbit out of a hat. I sincerely appreciate everyone’s insight as I have been as fair as I could be. I never would come to this professional forum to bash anyone. I’m hoping I can achieve a solution. Hiring an attorney is going to cost me 5k....I might as well buy an AI....

KEEP. YOUR IDEAS coming.

Warmly,
David
I don't think an attorney is necessary. I'd threaten small claims court and see what happens.

I'd tell them that the warranty covers a 6.8spc barrel. Not a different caliber or anything else. You bought a 6.8 that was defective, and you are entitled to a 6.8 back or 100% of your money back. If they don't agree then you can take them to court. I don't see this as needing an attorney. It's pretty cut and dry.
 

Voyager1

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You got screwed man. Whenever a customer invests in a company's products like you have they should be sending you free shit along with a new rifle.

Never buying one of those that's for damn sure. I'll stick with LMT.
I understand. I love LMT....but telling me I’m “screwed”;doesn’t help me....but thank u
 

loveha

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I would take the barrel, assuming you can get it back, and start calling barrel companies. Find one that will turn and drill to spec. Or find a smith that will drill and turn. And just find a barrel company that will send a bull barrel without a gas port. Is it going to cost money? Yes, that's the issue you run into when you run proprietary piston uppers. Is it a shame POF is a worthless company? Yes. Sometimes you just need to cut your losses.

Other option, already mentioned. Get it rebarreled to whatever and sell the upper. Use that to offset the cost of buying or building your own.

POF could give two shits about you. They don't want to, or care to help you. There is nothing you can do to make things right unless you go before a judge.
 
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Voyager1

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I don't think an attorney is necessary. I'd threaten small claims court and see what happens.

I'd tell them that the warranty covers a 6.8spc barrel. Not a different caliber or anything else. You bought a 6.8 that was defective, and you are entitled to a 6.8 back or 100% of your money back. If they don't agree then you can take them to court. I don't see this as needing an attorney. It's pretty cut and dry.
The question I have is you have to be present in small claims court don’t you? I don’t want to threaten them not how I roll
 
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Voyager1

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I would take the barrel, assuming you can get it back, and start calling barrel companies. Find one that will turn and drill to spec. Or find a smith that will drill and turn. And just find a barrel company that will send a bull barrel without a gas port. Is it going to cost money? Yes, that's the issue you run into when you run proprietary piston uppers. Is it a shame POF is a worthless company? Yes. Sometimes you just need to cut your losses.

Other option, already mentioned. Get it rebarreled to whatever and sell the upper. Use that to offset the cost of buying or building your own.
This makes the most sense. The question is why wouldn’t they send me back the bad barrel?
 

Snuby642

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I would press for 100% refund since the wont repair it.

There are many 6.8spc items offered at all the major vendors.
 
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Voyager1

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Yes I own a number of POF’s...I’m really really DISGUSTED.....here are just (2) of them. None of my POF’s have
I would press for 100% refund since the wont repair it.

There are many 6.8spc items offered at all the major vendors.
how? They have told me they aren’t obligated to do anything e Dept repair or replace at their discretion. Are there any attorneys here that would care to offer advice?
 

USMC_JA

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Personally, I'd let POF re-barrel to 556 and then sell the gun. I'd choose 556 as it likely has the most favorable resale chance due to the ubiqutious nature of the caliber.

I'd never give POF another dime of my money and I'd rather take a bit of a loss on the rifle then spend the time (or money) pushing this any further...including a rebarrel from a 3rd party. You are not going to win in the end. Nor are you going to be happy with that rifle. The most logical solution is take the cheapest way out that conserves the most time and money. Rebarrel with a popular caliber, dump the rifle for the best price possible (and you can sell in good conscious since it should come back in good working order), and move on to something more pleasurable in life.
 
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Luke

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I bought a Hogan "POF" rifle before their lawsuit went down. POF swapped me the Hogan rifle for an authentic POF P308 at no charge which was good of them. In the long run I could never get that rifle to function well. It would stovepipe, double feed, etc. with all sort of good quality factory ammunition. It was super heavy, and chunky. It just never gave me a warm fuzzy so I ended up selling it. Lesson learned.
 
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TxWelder35

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The question I have is you have to be present in small claims court don’t you? I don’t want to threaten them until I am dam sure I can back myself up.
Yes but they may not want to mess with going to court over it and just give you what you want. If they say see you in court then it's over if you don't want to persue it.
 
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Snuby642

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Belligerents
Feb 11, 2017
1,717
1,365
119
Let me get this strait.
They kept the barrel? Or still have the whole upper?
 
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Voyager1

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Aug 18, 2018
212
65
34
Let me get this strait.
They kept the barrel? Or still have the whole upper?
I sent in my entire rifle per their request. It’s in limbo because I have t responded to their last lettter which posted online for everyone to read.
 

Voyager1

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Aug 18, 2018
212
65
34
Personally, I'd let POF re-barrel to 556 and then sell the gun. I'd choose 556 as it likely has the most favorable resale chance due to the ubiqutious nature of the caliber.

I'd never give POF another dime of my money and I'd rather take a bit of a loss on the rifle then spend the time (or money) pushing this any further...including a rebarrel from a 3rd party. You are not going to win in the end. Nor are you going to be happy with that rifle. The most logical solution is take the cheapest way out that conserves the most time and money. Rebarrel with a popular caliber, dump the rifle for the best price possible (and you can sell in good conscious since it should come back in good working order), and move on to something more pleasurable in life.
This is sadly what I will end up doing. I’m so distraught that a good customer like me they would just basically say F-u....imho they must be really really in bad financial shape if your sacrificing good customers...
 

Voyager1

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Aug 18, 2018
212
65
34
Yes but they may not want to mess with going to court over it and just give you what you want. If they say see you in court then it's over if you don't want to persue it.
Then they may just keep my rifle too which would be theft but who knows?
 

USMC_JA

Private
Belligerents
Dec 13, 2010
104
68
34
45
This is sadly what I will end up doing. I’m so distraught that a good customer like me they would just basically say F-u....imho they must be really really in bad financial shape if your sacrificing good customers...
Don't be distraught, friend. It ain't worth that. Yes, they have betrayed a loyal customer. Yes, you are likely going to lose some money. But if this is the worst thing that happens to you this month, then count yourself lucky, indeed. I'm guessing that if you have over $12k worth of POF gear, you have plenty of other firearms and your wallet can withstand a few hundred dollars toward the negative.

What goes around comes around. And when POF goes tits up because of how it treats its customer base, you can take comfort in the fact that you got off the train and are spending your money elsewhere.
 

Voyager1

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Aug 18, 2018
212
65
34
Don't be distraught, friend. It ain't worth that. Yes, they have betrayed a loyal customer. Yes, you are likely going to lose some money. But if this is the worst thing that happens to you this month, then count yourself lucky, indeed. I'm guessing that if you have over $12k worth of POF gear, you have plenty of other firearms and your wallet can withstand a few hundred dollars toward the negative.

What goes around comes around. And when POF goes tits up because of how it treats its customer base, you can take comfort in the fact that you got off the train and are spending your money elsewhere.
That’s EXACTLY WHAT I NEEDED TO HERE my friend. U all are absolutely fantastic. God bless you all!
 

mwinter501

Sergeant
Belligerents
Jul 3, 2013
308
72
34
We had a similar experience with POF. Our PD bought two of their 308 rifles for our sniper team before I was on it.
The guy who made the decision to buy them had spoken with the owner over the phone who supposedly guaranteed that we would be satisfied or they would buy the rifles back.
There was nothing but trouble from the start, but the two guys shooting them just chalked it up to the typical issues when going from a bolt to a semi. When I got on the team I was authorized to shoot my own rifle due to budget issues. I won't get into the brand of my rifle because I don't want it to look like I'm just a fanboy, but it was a factory built semi-automatic 308 that shot acceptably. Everyone else could shoot my rifle just fine (~.5-1moa), nobody could shoot either of the POFs under 2".

We finally contacted POF because the screws holding the top rail, and the handguard, sheered off. We thought maybe that was the issue and we just didn't notice it earlier. We sent the rifle in and they said it was our fault and blamed us on using a ft/lb wrench instead of an in/lb. I GUARANTEE nobody did such a thing because we don't even have any ft/lb wrenches at our disposal...but they still blamed us and said they could "upgrade" our rifles for a nominal fee. They also "somewhat" admitted that the barrel was defective, although they said it meets their "normal" accuracy specs, but not their "law enforcement" accuracy specs. They still would only offer to upgrade the rifles at our expense witch would include their new style handguard and a new-and-improved barrel. I was against the upgrade because I had no faith in the rifles or the company and knew that those rifles would be nearly impossible to get replaced by our department if they dumped more money into them. Not surprisingly, they decided to go for the upgrade. It took them MONTHS to get it back to us. They used a number of excuses from slow shipments from their barrel supplier, to not being able to get to the range to test fire it, etc. The whole thing gave us the impression that they were either blowing us off or were having some other type of issues.

They finally sent the first rifle back to us and we sent our second one to them for the same upgrade. The one we got back still wouldn't shoot. There were also already signs of carrier tilt on the brand new carrier...indicating that they did test fire it (they said the did, but never provided a target proving accuracy). They of course blamed the carrier wear on the JP silent captured spring and denied any carrier tilt even though the wear matched every picture on the internet associated with carrier tilt. It continued to have accuracy issues...not necessarily just generally wide groups, but 2-3 rounds out of a five shot group that would just be inches away from the others

While the 2nd rifle was still there, they took the first one to a shooting class where it continued to have issues. Instructors (VERY highly respected) shot the rifle and had the same results. I guess they cited issues with the piston system being affected by the orientation of the rifle when being shot (whether fired generally horizontally or aimed down at a steeper angle). I can't quote all that for sure because I wasn't at that class and I got the impression that a lot was lost in translation. It just gave an even worse feeling because we either figured that they sent us a rifle that they new still wasn't shooting acceptably, or never test fired it like they said they did.

Months go by while we wait for the 2nd rifle. They give the same excuses as with the first. If I recall correctly, the 2nd rifle spent 4-5 months with them. All the while we're checking every 2 weeks or so and getting the same run around about their barrel supplier. It didn't hold water with me because I didn't see how a rifle manufacturer could go months without sending any product out the door.

After all was said and done, we sold the rifles for a huge loss and put the meager funds toward better options. From when we sent the first rifle in, to when we got our current rifles was probably close to 1.5 years. We all either shot our own rifles or used our spotter guns during that time.

Needless to say, I won't be purchasing or recommending POF to anyone. LE or otherwise, we were customers who were treated very poorly regarding tools we had to rely on for some serious needs. Everyone we dealt with just seemed like a bunch of shysters who just made up another excuse to kick the can down the road another few weeks.
 

gopherslayer

Private
Belligerents
Mar 9, 2008
84
37
24
WI
Remember that this is a piston firearm with a unique proprietary system . I’m not certain If other companies are able to manufacture barrels with proprietary gas systems....


GophersLAyer and CJNARVIS, I’m not certain whether I could get another company to manufacture a 6.8SPC Barrel and gas system that would function with their uppers???

Thank you all for the great suggestions...please keep me coming, you are all fantastic people!
You might want to try Rraier Arms. Not sure if ADCO could hook you up.
 
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mwinter501

Sergeant
Belligerents
Jul 3, 2013
308
72
34
I was certainly surprised after having been treated so well by so many companies. It's truly a fine industry we deal with when the standard experience is so positive. I'm not one to take to the interwebs lightly with these types of issues.... I haven't ever said anything about it publicly because I thought it was maybe an isolated problem. Reading your experience finally made me want to get it out there so people could hopefully know what they were getting into.
 
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lawofsavage

Deplorable
Belligerents
Jul 13, 2012
693
88
54
Birmingham, AL
One option is to request in writing via email, a full refund pursuant to their 100% satisfaction guarantee as they have admitted that they sold a defective product and that they are no longer able to replace the product that was originally purchased. And, If I don’t receive a refund within the next ten days, I will file a complaint in small claims court.


Might as well make them sweat a little while you decide what to do and who knows it may work but I’m sure they’ve heard it all before if this is how they treat people.

ETA: no one can really say if you “need” an atty or not if you decide to go the small claims route but a lot of times in small claims court especially the judges treat you better if you’re pro se haha or are at least a little more sympathetic towards a pro se plaintiff/litigant. Also, I’m not sure where you live but in most states, it’s considered unauthorized practice of law for a corporation to represent itself/ a non-attorney to appear pro se on behalf of a corporation but it’s not unlawful for an individual to represent themselves pro se.
 
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aard3

Private
Belligerents
Mar 23, 2011
120
37
34
35
Louisiana
If it were me, I’d request, in writing via email, that I am requesting a full refund pursuant to their 100% satisfaction guarantee as they have admitted that they sold a defective product and that they are no longer able to replace the product that was originally purchased. And, If I don’t receive a refund within the next ten days, I will file a complaint in small claims court but it’s not unlawful for an individual to represent themselves pro se.


Might as well make them sweat a little while you decide what to do and who knows it may work but I’m sure they’ve heard it all before if this is how they treat people.

ETA: no one can really say if you “need” an atty or not if you decide to go the small claims route but a lot of times in small claims court especially the judges treat you better if you’re pro se haha or are at least a little more sympathetic towards a pro se plaintiff/litigant. Also, I’m not sure where you live but in most states, it’s considered unauthorized practice of law for a corporation to represent itself/ a non-attorney to appear pro se on behalf of a corporation.
If they can't repair the product, they need to replace it with something equal, or refund you. 5.56 is not equivalent or close to 6.8SPC. I would kindly ask them for a fully refund if they can't repair it.

You can also file a complaint with the BBB.

I wouldn't threaten them with legal action, unless you are committed to following through with it. Many companies have a policy of stopping all discussions and passing it to their legal team when someone threatens legal action.
 
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