New to PRS, first scope advice needed

hengehold

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Minuteman
Oct 30, 2011
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NJ, USA
For the first time ever, I have to purchase a scope for the purposes of competing in PRS/NRL matches. I have no interest in hunting with it. I read some articles on precision rifle blog and shaped a few


I have decided that first focal plane is a must have and that I will jump on the mils bandwagon. Zero stop is a must have. I am considering a Horus reticle though question if it is hard to spot impacts with all of those grid lines in the way. Any reason I should reconsider those choices?

Here is what I am considering.

1. The Vortex Razor looks like a good option.
2. Nightforce ATACR
3. US Optics B-25

What are your experiences with these scopes for this type of application?
Thanks,
-Trevor
 

Kadams1563

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With Gen II Razor's selling for $1400 bucks your a fool not to buy one. It will do anything you ever need it too and will work forever.

I got mine for $1650 a few years ago and have been happy since. There is not another better buy to be had.
 
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hengehold

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Oct 30, 2011
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With Gen II Razor's selling for $1400 bucks your a fool not to buy one. It will do anything you ever need it too and will work forever.

I got mine for $1650 a few years ago and have been happy since. There is not another better buy to be had.
where are you finding the Razor for $1400?
-Trevor
 

Memberberries

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Aug 8, 2018
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I've only looked through a horus reticle once and I had the same concern about spotting hits. Ended up getting a used Eotech VUDU 5-25x50 with an md3 reticle. Haven't competed with it yet but I have shot with it and it's pretty awesome. I'd put it on par with my father in laws nightforce but the glass isn't as good as my schmidt and bender. The razor gen 2 is supposedly a little better but it's also a lot more money.

I think I'm going to get another vudu in 3.5-18 for my 223 bolt gun. New they're under a grand from eurooptic and with the 3.5-18 not being a compact length like the 5-25 it should be even better in low light.

The zero stop needs an Allen wrench but resetting the turret doesn't. The capped windage is nice. on/off button for the illuminated reticle and up/down buttons for brightness are in the same spot as parallax dial but you don't ever have to worry about spinning the buttons like you do on some scopes with a brightness dial right next to the parallax dial.

My only gripe is the fast focus eyepiece, it's inconvenient when you like flip up caps instead of bikini covers. I ended up taping the diopter in place and using the vortex defender caps, they fold all the way flat and clear the reciever and bolt handle at both ends of the mag range.
 
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winklche

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Mar 15, 2019
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I have the Razor Gen 2 with the Tremor 3 reticle. The Razor is an absolute beast. The clarity is great, the price is damn good, but the thing weighs a ton. Just shy of 50oz. If I had the extra money at the time I would have gone with the ATACR with the new Mil-XT. The Tremor 3 is nearly useless under 8x and I normally shoot on 18x-20x, but never lower than 14x. 4.5 on the low end isn't really necessary since most targets are either out past 300 or really small. 7x gives enough FOV to find targets. the extra 35x on the upper end helps with shooting tiny groups for a good zero and prone practice. The turrets are a little annoying on the razor. Mine are a little stiff and I really don't like the babysitter on my elevation, the push to lock turrets are a pain to unlock when you need to.

I rarely use the turrets on my Razor. The Tremor 3 is an amazing reticle for hold overs. I don't usually have trouble spotting my impacts and I know exactly my correction when I spot the miss if the area allows. The wind dots are a nice feature, but I don't trust them. I tried using them on a windy day outlaw match and couldnt get my impacts to go where I needed them to using wind dots. They just don't seem to be precise enough for PRS. If there's more than 1 or 2 stationary targets at different ranges, I generally never touch my turrets since I hate dialing on the clock. If it's a KYL rack, (won't be any more of those lol) the open center becomes extremely useful and there's no reason to hold over. The illuminated points on the tremor 3 are useless. You only ever see 1 dot every couple mils and nothing else, so low light matches would not be fun with it. Overall the tremor 3 is still my favorite reticle in Vortex's lineup, but getting it costs a couple hundred bucks extra and if similar reticles are available, I'd save my money.

I definitely do not regret buying a Razor and if I was in the same situation again, I'd pick up the Razor again. But, if given the chance I would spend the extra on the nightforce for better illumunation in the reticle, better turrets, and the extra magnification.
 

czim

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Jul 25, 2018
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From your post it sounds as if you have not been to many if any matches (if I am mistaken please don't take this advice the wrong way). I would try to get to a local match and look through the scopes you are considering. Ask the users why they purchased them and what they like/think could be improved with them. Personally I run a SIG Tango6 with DEV-L MIL reticle and really like it.
 

hengehold

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Oct 30, 2011
43
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12
NJ, USA
I've only looked through a horus reticle once and I had the same concern about spotting hits. Ended up getting a used Eotech VUDU 5-25x50 with an md3 reticle. Haven't competed with it yet but I have shot with it and it's pretty awesome. I'd put it on par with my father in laws nightforce but the glass isn't as good as my schmidt and bender. The razor gen 2 is supposedly a little better but it's also a lot more money.

I think I'm going to get another vudu in 3.5-18 for my 223 bolt gun. New they're under a grand from eurooptic and with the 3.5-18 not being a compact length like the 5-25 it should be even better in low light.

The zero stop needs an Allen wrench but resetting the turret doesn't. The capped windage is nice. on/off button for the illuminated reticle and up/down buttons for brightness are in the same spot as parallax dial but you don't ever have to worry about spinning the buttons like you do on some scopes with a brightness dial right next to the parallax dial.

My only gripe is the fast focus eyepiece, it's inconvenient when you like flip up caps instead of bikini covers. I ended up taping the diopter in place and using the vortex defender caps, they fold all the way flat and clear the reciever and bolt handle at both ends of the mag range.
Thanks for VUDU suggestion. I will give it a look.
 
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hengehold

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Oct 30, 2011
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NJ, USA
I have the Razor Gen 2 with the Tremor 3 reticle. The Razor is an absolute beast. The clarity is great, the price is damn good, but the thing weighs a ton. Just shy of 50oz. If I had the extra money at the time I would have gone with the ATACR with the new Mil-XT. The Tremor 3 is nearly useless under 8x and I normally shoot on 18x-20x, but never lower than 14x. 4.5 on the low end isn't really necessary since most targets are either out past 300 or really small. 7x gives enough FOV to find targets. the extra 35x on the upper end helps with shooting tiny groups for a good zero and prone practice. The turrets are a little annoying on the razor. Mine are a little stiff and I really don't like the babysitter on my elevation, the push to lock turrets are a pain to unlock when you need to.

I rarely use the turrets on my Razor. The Tremor 3 is an amazing reticle for hold overs. I don't usually have trouble spotting my impacts and I know exactly my correction when I spot the miss if the area allows. The wind dots are a nice feature, but I don't trust them. I tried using them on a windy day outlaw match and couldnt get my impacts to go where I needed them to using wind dots. They just don't seem to be precise enough for PRS. If there's more than 1 or 2 stationary targets at different ranges, I generally never touch my turrets since I hate dialing on the clock. If it's a KYL rack, (won't be any more of those lol) the open center becomes extremely useful and there's no reason to hold over. The illuminated points on the tremor 3 are useless. You only ever see 1 dot every couple mils and nothing else, so low light matches would not be fun with it. Overall the tremor 3 is still my favorite reticle in Vortex's lineup, but getting it costs a couple hundred bucks extra and if similar reticles are available, I'd save my money.

I definitely do not regret buying a Razor and if I was in the same situation again, I'd pick up the Razor again. But, if given the chance I would spend the extra on the nightforce for better illumunation in the reticle, better turrets, and the extra magnification.
thanks for your thoughts. The MIL XT Does look a lot cleaner than the HORUS.
 
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hengehold

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Oct 30, 2011
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From your post it sounds as if you have not been to many if any matches (if I am mistaken please don't take this advice the wrong way). I would try to get to a local match and look through the scopes you are considering. Ask the users why they purchased them and what they like/think could be improved with them. Personally I run a SIG Tango6 with DEV-L MIL reticle and really like it.
you are correct, I have no experience with PRS yet. Trying to get some input without Traveling to matches. Between work and kids I don’t have a lot of free time to get away.
The problem with the Lupold reticle is that it is not as useful as the numbered MIL reticle designs.
 

Birddog6424

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Crazy that they have 2019 blog stats again this year. No one asked me what I use, or my buddy that I traveled to the Finale with. I was thinking he had given up on the blog this year.
 
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Ravenworks

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How much do you plan on spending to mount your scope?

Doug at cameraland.com has some pretty good deals going

Do you have a wind meter?
Bushnell, which is on the list above can be had for $1,049.
That includes a brand new Krestal.
Kinda really hard to pass that up.
 

winklche

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Mar 15, 2019
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What don't you like about the leupold reticles?
The TMR is far too simple. It has .5 mil hashes where you need .2s the most. The CCH is ok, but .25 mil subtensions can be a little annoying when everything adjusts in tenths. Open centers are definitely appreciated, but I'm just not a huge fan of the CCH. Perhaps its because there's too much that I don't know about it, not sure, just not really a fan. I'm aware they offer the Tremor3, but it comes at a premium and hoenstly I don't think I would pay the premium for the Tremor3 again since I don't use its main feature, the wind dots. I happened to get a good deal on the Razor with it so that's the main reason I use it now.

The 35mm tube is also a huge bummer. Just enough to not get a huge benefit, but enough to need a whole new set of rings specific to only that scope since most others use 34mm.
 
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hengehold

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Oct 30, 2011
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Thanks for the input that everyone has provided. I have finally decided on a scope and your thoughts were helpful.
-T
 

Walker TR

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Vortex GenII is a great higher end scope to start with, there is a reason many pro shooters still run the GenII. Best warranty in the business.
 

1clicktrick

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I have been back and forth as well. Reading this has been very helpful to me, thank you for all who have voiced their opinions. I am too looking at the razor gen2.