New Match planned for 2021, Need Feedback

Alpine 338

Lumberjack
Belligerents
Jun 26, 2010
1,347
409
189
NW Colorado
Ok, last few weeks I've had many a conversation with old friends, new shooters, and those who actively compete. Each conversation leads to the desire to shoot a match that is fun, challenging, with no drama, etc. A field style match without any contrived circus stages. A match where not only a veteran shooter would be challenged, but also a novice shooter would feel comfortable shooting. There's a huge number of shooters seeking field matches that aren't the usuall, well you know, as a friend just sarcastically said...
"Any stages with wobbly beds and bags full of beach balls to shoot off of? Cause I encounter that shit whenever I'm out walking around. Really need to work on those skills."

So recently I met the GM of a very large Ranch, who I have started the conversation with about the possibility of having a two day long range precision rifle match, 100 to 120 shooters, etc. The Ranch consists of thousands of acres of varying terrain from open grassland to heavy timber, altitude from 6000 to over 9000-ft.

So here's my question seeking feedback, but let me preface this with, I don't need suggestions on how to put on a match, as I've been a co-match director for two large national level matches. What feedback I need is people to just say "Yeah, that's cool, I'd love to shoot that kind of match" or "No way, I want to chase points in a series, and shoot off of wobbly man made stuff, and then bitch about how I got screwed at the prize table."

Here's the start of my idea and planning;

- This will be an outlaw match, and not affiliated with any organization. However, if enough people like this style of match, and want to create matches across the country based on this model, and want to create an organization, that's cool.

- Field style match. There will be no man-made props to shoot off of, with exception of for example an abandoned old cabin, that you may set up in, and shoot through the windows or a doorway. There will be no man-made props built or moved in specifically for the match, as often seen at PRS matches like tank traps, floating platforms, etc.

- Gear; No gear restrictions, this will be a field style match, where walking will be required, and you'll have to navigate a trail (typically single track) through sage brush, tall grass, dense forest, rock fields, up and down hills, etc. So the rule is, if you can carry it, you can use it. ATVs, UTVs, Wheeled Carts, etc will not be allowed. Once you leave the parking lot, you will not have access to your vehicle until the end of the day. You'll have to carry all your gear to include ammo, bags, tripod, etc. However, it will not be an endurance race, so walking distances will be of reasonable length to ensure stages are spaced enough apart to prevent conflicts and crowding.

- Stages; Targets will be of appropriate size to make it challenging, but not impossible for the average shooter to successfully hit. Shooting positions will be realistic, as one would find in a hunting or combat scenario. You may be required to move positions in order to see or engage all targets, and you will have the opportunity to shoot any stage as you see fit. If you want to shoot all targets standing using a tripod, or shoot at every target prone, your choice. Just realize, equipment deployment and set up will be under the clock. Time will be generous to afford the opportunity for the average shooter to realistically and safely get all shots off in the allotted time. Also, We're not going to force you to roll dice, pick a card, pick a number, shoot targets in a convoluted order, or any other kind of silliness. It will be a simple shoot near to far, unless you want to skip a target and come back to it later (and you communicate with the scorekeeper/spotter).

- Equipment Deployment, no complex or stupid rules. Carry your equipment as you normally do, and that's how you start each and every stage. For example, I carry my rifle slung across my chest, with bipod legs out, but collapsed. I have my tripod set to waist level, with a Precision Shooting Platform and soft bag mounted on top of it, and hand carried. I have one rear bag attached to my belt, and any other bags are attached to my pack. So simple rule, I would start every stage in this manner. If someone normally carries their rifle in a Eberlestock pack, with tripod fully collapsed, and attached or stowed to the pack, that is how they would start every stage. If you normally carry your rifle slung on your shoulder with bipod folded, hand carrying a fully extended tripod with binoculars attached for spotting, and all shooting bags inside your pack, then that's how you would start every stage. It's a simple process, without any drama. Every stage will be different, so how you carry your gear will not give you any advantage over the next person as what gear and how it's used will vary on each stage. This will also teach individuals how to efficiently carry and deploy their equipment based on field conditions such as Hunting, instead of configuring equipment prior to each stage like everyone does for a square range match.

- Scorekeeping and RO's; Squads will be assigned a Squad Leader with radio, scorekeeping and timing device provided. Shooters will be required to spot and keep score for their squad mates, so spotting optics (Binoculars as a minimum) will be required for at least two shooters on each squad. I don't believe this will be an issue as 90% of all shooters have binoculars.

Scoring and Awards; Target engagement will be one shot per target, a hit is one point, and a miss is zero points. There will be at least two stages that will be tie breakers (primary, secondary, etc). So if you tie with another individual, but have more points on a tie breaker stage, then you will gain a fractional point to show placement. Awards will be trophies for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd with a cash payout to the top five shooters. Also some small category prizes, for example a bottle of whiskey to recognize the top Military/Veteran shooter. Donated or match sponsored equipment. All equipment will be displayed at a Saturday night BBQ gathering, and will be actioned off to all participants and match support staff. This will afford you the opportunity at a chance to win something you are interested in, vs picking up something off a prize table that you don't need and will be sold, and the sponsor is never recognized or thanked . All proceeds of the auction will go to a worthy disabled veterans organization. There will be no other prizes or awards, just bragging rights.

Entry Fee; The big unknown at this time. I haven't even started to negotiate land lease fee's with the ranch, and there's also other costs like portable toilets, catering of the Saturday night dinner, etc. And if the majority says, hell, let's be individually responsible to bring our own lunches, and water during the match, that's one less cost to pass on to the shooter, thus lowering the entry fee.

Location and Date; Again this match location is still being negotiated, so all I can say is Central Rocky Mountain area in the Summer of 2021. This area has snow in patches on the ground until end of May, and because the Ranch offers Guided Hunting, I can't see this match being held any later than end of August or September? I will try not schedule the match on the same weekend as any other two day match in the State or adjoining States. However, I have to work with the Ranch schedule (which sometimes gets VIP and Foreign guest's), and the existing NRL and PRS schedule that usually comes out well in advance.

So based on input from you, It may be something that can become reality.

Let me know your thoughts. Will you want to shoot this match? Thanks!
 
Last edited:

mahlv

Sergeant of the Hide
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jul 6, 2018
187
61
34
You had me at “outlaw” 😂. This would be a cool idea. I’ve been to more PRs/nrl style matches, and the big mass crowd on a 300yd long shooting line adds a certain sense of sitting in traffic, Probably due more to my personality, but take my comments at the worth you paid me for them. Spreading squads out, and if time allowed, reduce the squad sizes to 10-12, would make it pretty fun as well as limiting the gear race by default, as everyone has to pack their shit for the whole day over a longer distance. Best of luck to getting that going, and bless your heart for taking on that whole deal
 

morganlamprecht

Sergeant
Belligerents
Nov 5, 2013
1,307
1,369
219
sounds ideal as hell to me, love it

we have one local location we have wanted to run some of our 1 days in this fashion, but we're concerned we'd loose half our field with the "walking, no atv's" rule lol
 

stevenc23

Full Member
Belligerents
Oct 21, 2013
894
203
49
Denver, CO
It has always been my feeling that there is a strong demand for more "Field Type Matches" with no manmade shooting props. The Raton SRM is a prime example. The match has had essentially the same course of fire with no props for over 10 years and yet it remains one of the favorite matches for many in the area and always fills up.
 

enginerd

Private
Belligerents
Apr 1, 2013
9
2
6
I would shoot it. Sounds identical to a Competition Dynamics match except you travel in a group instead of individually between "stage areas"
 
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Juggerxxx

Sergeant
Belligerents
Feb 13, 2017
656
220
49
I’m interested so long as it is within a ~4 hour drive from Northern Colorado.
 

Jedbo

Private
Belligerents
Sep 3, 2013
21
0
2
100% on board. Love the idea of carry everything you need for the day, water and food included. A true field match.
 

cwinner

Private
Belligerents
Apr 20, 2009
122
38
34
NM
What's not to like about a match like you've described? Sounds Awsome, I'd be interested depending on timing and location.
 

hlee

Sergeant
Belligerents
Jul 14, 2012
2,832
2,426
219
41
TX
Ugh, no drama? F that. And, just to be clear, if we carry it, we can shoot from a bag full of beach balls, right?

In seriousness, it does sound like fun.
 

canezach

House of Chingasos
Belligerents
Apr 18, 2014
1,495
607
219
Colorado
Sounds a lot like the Sporting Rifle Match in Raton, and like someone else said, it's my favorite match. If you want it, you carry it, but you have to carry it the whole match. You get into position and set up on the clock. Every squad runs their own clock and scoring, with one "squad leader". A ton of fun, laid back, welcoming to new shooters, but still challenging to the more experienced guys. I'd be down for another match like that
 

sinister

Gunny Sergeant
Belligerents
Apr 16, 2002
1,719
158
169
College Station, Texas
I don't do civilian shooting series, but from what I see, not many matches do high and low up and down-angle shooting. Maybe plan some shooting where the target is through and a few feet back from a loophole (i.e., house or office window and car door frames).
 

Yoteski

Private
Belligerents
Feb 13, 2017
336
319
69
I'm doing a similar match in April spanning from suggestions received here in several threads. It's going to have an emphasis on first round impacts and focus on realistic field scenarios instead of barricade heavy nonsense. I like your term, "outlaw match."
It's going to have a flighted match payout formula as to reward new shooters for taking a chance and attending. I have it listed in the match competition section if you'd like to see our format.
Best of luck getting it going. Let me know when and where your match will be and I'll try and make it. Feel free to PM and discuss your match, etc.
 
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shields shtr

Private
Hessian
Belligerents
Mar 4, 2017
261
145
49
You described a few club matches I have been to just outside my hometown. As the sport grew he started to incorporate a few more "gimmicky stages" but it was still fun. Here is my advice, don't be afraid to charge a fee that makes it worth your time, makes the landowner happy, and creates a good experience. This is not a poor mans sport, and most are packing around 5k worth of gear at minimum around the course, a couple hundred bucks or more isn't gonna make or break most in my opinion. I like your general format, it makes it kind of feel like a stroll through the woods where you frequently stop to shoot.
 

porridgebird

Badger 338
Minuteman
Jan 7, 2018
8
4
6
Ok, last few weeks I've had many a conversation with old friends, new shooters, and those who actively compete. Each conversation leads to the desire to shoot a match that is fun, challenging, with no drama, etc. A field style match without any contrived circus stages. A match where not only a veteran shooter would be challenged, but also a novice shooter would feel comfortable shooting. There's a huge number of shooters seeking field matches that aren't the usuall, well you know, as a friend just sarcastically said...
"Any stages with wobbly beds and bags full of beach balls to shoot off of? Cause I encounter that shit whenever I'm out walking around. Really need to work on those skills."

So recently I met the GM of a very large Ranch, who I have started the conversation with about the possibility of having a two day long range precision rifle match, 100 to 120 shooters, etc. The Ranch consists of thousands of acres of varying terrain from open grassland to heavy timber, altitude from 6000 to over 9000-ft.

So here's my question seeking feedback, but let me preface this with, I don't need suggestions on how to put on a match, as I've been a co-match director for two large national level matches. What feedback I need is people to just say "Yeah, that's cool, I'd love to shoot that kind of match" or "No way, I want to chase points in a series, and shoot off of wobbly man made stuff, and then bitch about how I got screwed at the prize table."

Here's the start of my idea and planning;

- This will be an outlaw match, and not affiliated with any organization. However, if enough people like this style of match, and want to create matches across the country based on this model, and want to create an organization, that's cool.

- Field style match. There will be no man-made props to shoot off of, with exception of for example an abandoned old cabin, that you may set up in, and shoot through the windows or a doorway. There will be no man-made props built or moved in specifically for the match, as often seen at PRS matches like tank traps, floating platforms, etc.

- Gear; No gear restrictions, this will be a field style match, where walking will be required, and you'll have to navigate a trail (typically single track) through sage brush, tall grass, dense forest, rock fields, up and down hills, etc. So the rule is, if you can carry it, you can use it. ATVs, UTVs, Wheeled Carts, etc will not be allowed. Once you leave the parking lot, you will not have access to your vehicle until the end of the day. You'll have to carry all your gear to include ammo, bags, tripod, etc. However, it will not be an endurance race, so walking distances will be of reasonable length to ensure stages are spaced enough apart to prevent conflicts and crowding.

- Stages; Targets will be of appropriate size to make it challenging, but not impossible for the average shooter to successfully hit. Shooting positions will be realistic, as one would find in a hunting or combat scenario. You may be required to move positions in order to see or engage all targets, and you will have the opportunity to shoot any stage as you see fit. If you want to shoot all targets standing using a tripod, or shoot at every target prone, your choice. Just realize, equipment deployment and set up will be under the clock. Time will be generous to afford the opportunity for the average shooter to realistically and safely get all shots off in the allotted time. Also, We're not going to force you to roll dice, pick a card, pick a number, shoot targets in a convoluted order, or any other kind of silliness. It will be a simple shoot near to far, unless you want to skip a target and come back to it later (and you communicate with the scorekeeper/spotter).

- Equipment Deployment, no complex or stupid rules. Carry your equipment as you normally do, and that's how you start each and every stage. For example, I carry my rifle slung across my chest, with bipod legs out, but collapsed. I have my tripod set to waist level, with a Precision Shooting Platform and soft bag mounted on top of it, and hand carried. I have one rear bag attached to my belt, and any other bags are attached to my pack. So simple rule, I would start every stage in this manner. If someone normally carries their rifle in a Eberlestock pack, with tripod fully collapsed, and attached or stowed to the pack, that is how they would start every stage. If you normally carry your rifle slung on your shoulder with bipod folded, hand carrying a fully extended tripod with binoculars attached for spotting, and all shooting bags inside your pack, then that's how you would start every stage. It's a simple process, without any drama. Every stage will be different, so how you carry your gear will not give you any advantage over the next person as what gear and how it's used will vary on each stage. This will also teach individuals how to efficiently carry and deploy their equipment based on field conditions such as Hunting, instead of configuring equipment prior to each stage like everyone does for a square range match.

- Scorekeeping and RO's; Squads will be assigned a Squad Leader with radio, scorekeeping and timing device provided. Shooters will be required to spot and keep score for their squad mates, so spotting optics (Binoculars as a minimum) will be required for at least two shooters on each squad. I don't believe this will be an issue as 90% of all shooters have binoculars.

Scoring and Awards; Target engagement will be one shot per target, a hit is one point, and a miss is zero points. There will be at least two stages that will be tie breakers (primary, secondary, etc). So if you tie with another individual, but have more points on a tie breaker stage, then you will gain a fractional point to show placement. Awards will be trophies for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd with a cash payout to the top five shooters. Also some small category prizes, for example a bottle of whiskey to recognize the top Military/Veteran shooter. Donated or match sponsored equipment. All equipment will be displayed at a Saturday night BBQ gathering, and will be actioned off to all participants and match support staff. This will afford you the opportunity at a chance to win something you are interested in, vs picking up something off a prize table that you don't need and will be sold, and the sponsor is never recognized or thanked . All proceeds of the auction will go to a worthy disabled veterans organization. There will be no other prizes or awards, just bragging rights.

Entry Fee; The big unknown at this time. I haven't even started to negotiate land lease fee's with the ranch, and there's also other costs like portable toilets, catering of the Saturday night dinner, etc. And if the majority says, hell, let's be individually responsible to bring our own lunches, and water during the match, that's one less cost to pass on to the shooter, thus lowering the entry fee.

Location and Date; Again this match location is still being negotiated, so all I can say is Central Rocky Mountain area in the Summer of 2021. This area has snow in patches on the ground until end of May, and because the Ranch offers Guided Hunting, I can't see this match being held any later than end of August or September? I will try not schedule the match on the same weekend as any other two day match in the State or adjoining States. However, I have to work with the Ranch schedule (which sometimes gets VIP and Foreign guest's), and the existing NRL and PRS schedule that usually comes out well in advance.

So based on input from you, It may be something that can become reality.

Let me know your thoughts. Will you want to shoot this match? Thanks!
Yes!
 

Pho

Private
Belligerents
Feb 13, 2017
21
15
6
It's good to see interest in field style matches growing.

My suggestion is to do away with the cash payout. Get a trophy for the winner and other top category shooters. Put the money back into the event by keeping the entry fee as low as possible to attract new shooters. Throw a BBQ and have water at each stage for a memorable experience.

I think field style shooters will value what they learn over some wad of cash, unless it was a big wad.
 

Jabot

Private
Belligerents
Minuteman
Sep 2, 2014
268
69
34
I'm in name a date ,as long as it's not end of September to November "elk, deer season "
 
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Jabot

Private
Belligerents
Minuteman
Sep 2, 2014
268
69
34
I'm doing a similar match in April spanning from suggestions received here in several threads. It's going to have an emphasis on first round impacts and focus on realistic field scenarios instead of barricade heavy nonsense. I like your term, "outlaw match."
It's going to have a flighted match payout formula as to reward new shooters for taking a chance and attending. I have it listed in the match competition section if you'd like to see our format.
Best of luck getting it going. Let me know when and where your match will be and I'll try and make it. Feel free to PM and discuss your match, etc.
What is the name of this match