LMT vs LWRC vs KAC for AR10

TangoSierra916

Gunny Sergeant
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Oct 11, 2017
692
115
49
Madison, WI
Hey everyone,

Looking for some insight on hopefully the next purchase. Really have the ar10 purchase in either .308 or 6.5cm narrowed down to the LWRC REPR MK2 elite, lmt 308 or kac rifles. I know lmt and kac share some similar parts and traits. Anyone thought through a similar decision?

I’ve read the threads on a few of these but wanted to talk through all 3.

Which rifle did you go with or do you have one of these and have issues or great
Things to say?

Intended use will vary but will include hunting, competitions and random range targets. Looking for reliability and precision as top factors, I know the ar platform very well so prefer that.

I may or may not swap calibers but the option is good and di vs piston both work for me.

Any help would be appreciated, thanks!
 
Last edited:

slowlearner

Private
Belligerents
Jan 25, 2012
112
81
34
Death Valley area...it is hot.
All three make nice rifles, but knowing your intended purpose will help. What do you want to do with it? What scope are you planning on using ICW? Do you like piston vs DI? Do you want the ability to pull the barrel with a few Allen keys?

Narrowing down use will help narrow down options/models. A few more definite models make comparisons a lot easier.
 

TangoSierra916

Gunny Sergeant
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Oct 11, 2017
692
115
49
Madison, WI
All three make nice rifles, but knowing your intended purpose will help. What do you want to do with it? What scope are you planning on using ICW? Do you like piston vs DI? Do you want the ability to pull the barrel with a few Allen keys?

Narrowing down use will help narrow down options/models. A few more definite models make comparisons a lot easier.
Very true, info added above. Basically I’m good with di or piston, not looking for a super long barrel, 20” ish, just want reliability and precision primarily. It will be a fun of many roles.

Intended scope will be Tangent 3-15 or atacr 4-16/5-25
 

slowlearner

Private
Belligerents
Jan 25, 2012
112
81
34
Death Valley area...it is hot.
Within the KAC side, if you want hammer forged barrels, look at the CC line. If you want the fancy stainless precision oriented (along with heavier profiles), look at the PC line. You can get them from 16”-20” rifles and uppers in 308. If you jump to the 6.5 side, your options within KAC are more limited (currently, rumors of a 14.5” 6.5 just sounds fun).

LMT is very similar in some aspects, and the uppers/lowers are comparable (Just asks the Californians who can’t have SR-25s). Though not needed, the barrel swap feature can be a blessing and a curse. If you want a new barrel and it is a design someone else already makes, awesome. If not, the barrel extension is a bit involved if I remember my research correctly. Also, their gassing can be a bit on the high side, so a consideration for using a suppressor.

Don’t have experience with the LWRC, so no help there.

Other things to consider are if you will be using a suppressor, do you want an adjustable gas block, and really narrowing it down between 308 and 6.5 because that will drive a lot of options.

And to add to the fire of options, hearing good things about SOLGW, and I got to shoot an ADM 308 a few months back, and was impressed with the ambi features on their lowers.
 

TangoSierra916

Gunny Sergeant
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Oct 11, 2017
692
115
49
Madison, WI
Yeah I appreciate it, at the moment Ild want the adjustable gas block and am leaning to the LWRC. Really like the design of the proof barrel or spiral fluted.

Through research they all seem great like, any reason not to go LWRC? Ild be getting one version of the mk2.
 

nn8734

nn8734
Belligerents
Feb 26, 2013
454
154
49
Las Vegas, NV
Hey everyone,

Looking for some insight on hopefully the next purchase. Really have the ar10 purchase in either .308 or 6.5cm narrowed down to the LWRC REPR MK2 elite, lmt 308 or kac rifles. I know lmt and kac share some similar parts and traits. Anyone thought through a similar decision?
KAC all the way in my opinion. I have a SR25 EMR that holds ~ 1 MOA to 800 yards with my hand loads and functions the same suppressed or unsuppresssed...owned an LMT MWS and it shot great until I stuck a can on it then would group unpredictability with significant POI shift vs non suppressed. Sold it to buy the SR. Plus you will get your money out of the KAC if you have to sell...not sure about most other rifles.
 
Last edited:

TangoSierra916

Gunny Sergeant
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Oct 11, 2017
692
115
49
Madison, WI
KAC all the way in My opinion. I have a SR25 EMR that holds ~ 1 MOA to 800 yards with my hand loads and functions the same suppressed or unsuppresssed...owned an LMT MWS and it shot great until I stuck a can on it then would group unpredictability with significant POI shift vs non suppressed. Sold it to buy the SR. Plus you will get your money out of the KAC if you have to sell...not sure about most other rifles.
I appreciate the response. Definitely seems like KAC demands a premium but they also seem to perform to it. Any pics of the sr25?
 

LAW-DOG

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 14, 2018
314
96
34
I own a repr with a side charging handle & it’s reliability is great. It never gets dirty like my bolt guns, sometimes I run a bore snake but it’s crazy how the nicor/nitrocarb barrels stay clean. It shoots sub moa but it’s not a comp shooter like a ga precision which is what I would get if you are going to compete. The repr is awesome when shooting suppressed, it’s super reliable, easy to maintain, & great for someone who’s just getting into shooting because of how easy it is to maintain. My uncles ga precision is way more accurate & can shoot .5 moa, that is what I would get to compete. The repr is a battle rifle great for law enforcement & military because of how nice it is suppressed & reliability but it’s not a comp shooter
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: schmi015

TangoSierra916

Gunny Sergeant
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Oct 11, 2017
692
115
49
Madison, WI
I own a repr with a side charging handle & it’s reliability is great. It never gets dirty like my bolt guns, sometimes I run a bore snake but it’s crazy how the nicor/nitrocarb barrels stay clean. It shoots sub moa but it’s not a comp shooter like a ga precision which is what I would get if you are going to compete. The repr is awesome when shooting suppressed, it’s super reliable, easy to maintain, & great for someone who’s just getting into shooting because of how easy it is to maintain. My uncles ga precision is way more accurate & can shoot .5 moa, that is what I would get to compete. The repr is a battle rifle great for law enforcement & military because of how nice it is suppressed & reliability but it’s not a comp shooter
That is sweet!!!! On the GA precision note when I look at their site it looks like the ar10 is partially made by Seekins, is the Seekins sp10 a comparable option?
 

LAW-DOG

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 14, 2018
314
96
34
That is sweet!!!! On the GA precision note when I look at their site it looks like the ar10 is partially made by Seekins, is the Seekins sp10 a comparable option?
They do look similar but I doubt the seekins has a 5r bartlein barrel with a custom cut chamber for what handload or match ammo you might run. So I would guess that they are probably not comparable in accuracy. The gap-10 wil shoot .5 moa or better guaranteed. The ga is only $500 more & a lot more caliber choices like 6mm creedmoor which is probably what I would get in 22in. The other advantage is you can talk to them about it & get great advice for putting your rifle together.
 

Tonsofguns

Private
Belligerents
Feb 24, 2017
381
38
34
Northern Va
Lmt is a tank, shots accurate (I’ve owned three) super reliable, and I like to change my barrels up.
I also have a few Lmt mrp in which one has 15,000 rounds of mostly rapid fire. Only fix has been a gas ring.
However it is overgassed, heavy and not very well balanced.
To deal with the gas one of the members here drilled a hole in the gas block as a solution.
I owned a kac apc, but didn’t get a chance to shot it much. Accuracy wise, nothing substantially better than what I saw with my mws, but that’s off a small sample with the kac. However balance and weight on the kac is so much better, and it shots smoother not being overgassed.

With regards to the lwrc, I’ve never owned one but it seems like many people on the forums don’t love them which I can’t say the same about the Lmt and kac.

If long range precision and reliability is your main goal, just go with jp.
 

LAW-DOG

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 14, 2018
314
96
34
Lmt is a tank, shots accurate (I’ve owned three) super reliable, and I like to change my barrels up.
I also have a few Lmt mrp in which one has 15,000 rounds of mostly rapid fire. Only fix has been a gas ring.
However it is overgassed, heavy and not very well balanced.
To deal with the gas one of the members here drilled a hole in the gas block as a solution.
I owned a kac apc, but didn’t get a chance to shot it much. Accuracy wise, nothing substantially better than what I saw with my mws, but that’s off a small sample with the kac. However balance and weight on the kac is so much better, and it shots smoother not being overgassed.

With regards to the lwrc, I’ve never owned one but it seems like many people on the forums don’t love them which I can’t say the same about the Lmt and kac.

If long range precision and reliability is your main goal, just go with jp.
I haven’t heard much hate on LWRC. Search lwrc ic m6 psd & you will find a lot of people talking about how good they are. The only criticism I’ve heard is the repr accuracy not being very good vs other 308. Where they shine is shooting suppressed which is easy to adjust for unlike a lot of other rifles. The kac gets hate for its price & lmt won’t match GA Precision in acurracy. Get the repr to shoot suppressed & the GA to compete
 

LAW-DOG

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 14, 2018
314
96
34
My uncles ga precision shoots under .5moa, if you want a semi auto to compete there’s not many other semis that can match it. My uncle just said he ordered a jp-lrp that he thinks might be even better but won’t know until we get it
 
Last edited:

nn8734

nn8734
Belligerents
Feb 26, 2013
454
154
49
Las Vegas, NV
Hey everyone,

Looking for some insight on hopefully the next purchase. Really have the ar10 purchase in either .308 or 6.5cm....Any help would be appreciated, thanks!
How much do you want to spend on just the rifle?

Figure on spending between 2 and 3k for an LMT, 4K+ for a KAC, not too familiar with what a REPR typically goes for but I believe they are similar to Knights.
 

87stang

Private
Belligerents
Apr 19, 2012
107
53
34
39
college station, TX
Every LWRC .308 I’ve been around has been has been lacking in the accuracy department. Granted, my experience with them is not as extensive as with LMT and KAC but I just don’t find them to hold accuracy as well. My LMT was a bit more accurate than my KAC but not substantially but it was also a pig. My current SR-25 ACC with 16” chrome lined barrel came with a test target in the low .900s and I’ve been able to consistently hold that standard. It’s not uncommon to see results like that and better out of KAC. Some days are better some are worse, but I run the ACC as a heavy carbine with a 1-8 ATACR. The LMT was legitimately capable of .5 - .75” consistently whether I was or not. That’s not to say the LWRC is not capable but I haven’t found them to be as consistent as the other.
 

LAW-DOG

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 14, 2018
314
96
34
How much do you want to spend on just the rifle?

Figure on spending between 2 and 3k for an LMT, 4K+ for a KAC, not too familiar with what a REPR typically goes for but I believe they are similar to Knights.
The repr 6.5 creedmoor with the proof research carbon fiber barrel is is $4000 & standard is $3600. I wouldn’t choose lmt or lwrc for a competition rifle. Gap10, larue, or jp-lrp would be a much better choice because these rifles can shoot .5moa or better where the lmt & lwrc can’t. I don’t know how good the new repr proof research can shoot but that barrel is very accurate but a gap10 or jp-lrp will definitely group better than the repr or lmt, they are battle rifles not comp rifles
 

Tonsofguns

Private
Belligerents
Feb 24, 2017
381
38
34
Northern Va
I haven’t heard much hate on LWRC. Search lwrc ic m6 psd & you will find a lot of people talking about how good they are. The only criticism I’ve heard is the repr accuracy not being very good vs other 308. Where they shine is shooting suppressed which is easy to adjust for unlike a lot of other rifles. The kac gets hate for its price & lmt won’t match GA Precision in acurracy. Get the repr to shoot suppressed & the GA to compete

Most of the LWRC repr hate i hear is with regards to accuracy. People claiming theirs is a 2 moa gun. You can expect 1moa or better in both the LMT and kacs.

I also owned a GA precision, and while it was the most accurate 308 i've ever shot, it was picky with ammo. I had misfeeds, and issues with primers blowing. i sent the rifle in, and they said nothing was wrong with it, they charged me for shipping back, plus the ammo they shot (I ended up spending $200).
I continued to have pickiness with ammo type. in firearms, i want my rifles to eat most anything, so the GA had to go.
 

texag0842

Texas
Online Training Access
Belligerents
May 12, 2013
592
160
49
My SR25 or my Accuracy International are the two most impressive weapons that I always grab for.

The SR25 is not only a laser but it's such a soft recoiling rifle.

Out of the three you have listed I'd grab the KAC first and if I couldn't financially swing it I would go with the LMT since they're such close companies. I'd avoid LWRC
 

TangoSierra916

Gunny Sergeant
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Oct 11, 2017
692
115
49
Madison, WI
How much do you want to spend on just the rifle?

Figure on spending between 2 and 3k for an LMT, 4K+ for a KAC, not too familiar with what a REPR typically goes for but I believe they are similar to Knights.
Didn’t really have a budget I guess but 3k ish but could do more for the right setup.
 

TangoSierra916

Gunny Sergeant
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Oct 11, 2017
692
115
49
Madison, WI
My SR25 or my Accuracy International are the two most impressive weapons that I always grab for.

The SR25 is not only a laser but it's such a soft recoiling rifle.

Out of the three you have listed I'd grab the KAC first and if I couldn't financially swing it I would go with the LMT since they're such close companies. I'd avoid LWRC
I agree the AI is very impressive. Any pics or specs on your sr25?
 

nn8734

nn8734
Belligerents
Feb 26, 2013
454
154
49
Las Vegas, NV
The repr 6.5 creedmoor with the proof research carbon fiber barrel is is $4000 & standard is $3600. I wouldn’t choose lmt or lwrc for a competition rifle. Gap10, larue, or jp-lrp would be a much better choice because these rifles can shoot .5moa or better where the lmt & lwrc can’t. I don’t know how good the new repr proof research can shoot but that barrel is very accurate but a gap10 or jp-lrp will definitely group better than the repr or lmt, they are battle rifles not comp rifles
My MWS actually grouped nicely (1 MOA to 700, which was the extent of my dope for it before I sold it) with match ammo, black hills and FGMM 175’s, just as well as my KAC - until you put a can on it. My other problem with it was the weight. If the OP is going to be shooting dynamic tactical comps like PRS it wouldn’t be my first choice.

I considered the REPR and Larue OBR before I bought the SR25 but always wanted an SR so spent the extra $$. So glad I did.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TangoSierra916

TangoSierra916

Gunny Sergeant
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Oct 11, 2017
692
115
49
Madison, WI
My MWS actually grouped nicely (1 MOA to 700, which was the extent of my dope for it before I sold it) with match ammo, black hills and FGMM 175’s, just as well as my KAC - until you put a can on it. My other problem with it was the weight. If the OP is going to be shooting dynamic tactical comps like PRS it wouldn’t be my first choice.

I considered the REPR and Larue OBR before I bought the SR25 but always wanted an SR so spent the extra $$. So glad I did.
Comps would be the end game for sure I e checked out JP as well but KAC seems like a great option based on user feedback so far. I appreciate the response
 

87stang

Private
Belligerents
Apr 19, 2012
107
53
34
39
college station, TX
The SR25 is not only a laser but it's such a soft recoiling rifle.
This right here is key and one of the things that set KAC apart. The SR-25 is such a soft shooting platform for a AR-10 rifle. Large frame ARs are not difficult to shoot accurately and that difference in recounting makes them just a bit easier to shoot well.

There are other rifles that do some things better than KAC, accuracy being one, but taken as a hole the KAC is much system than the rest. I’m not after a competition gun in an AR platform though.

I will say that while JP, Seekins, Larue, and some others a fine firearms. However, take a class with AR-10 platforms and it will paint a very different picture. When rifles go down during heavy firing schedules it’s rarely a KAC. SCAR-H and larue seem to be the first ones off the line followed by Seekins and the other top brands. That’s just anecdotal observations but sure seem to be pretty consistent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TangoSierra916

TangoSierra916

Gunny Sergeant
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Oct 11, 2017
692
115
49
Madison, WI
This right here is key and one of the things that set KAC apart. The SR-25 is such a soft shooting platform for a AR-10 rifle. Large frame ARs are not difficult to shoot accurately and that difference in recounting makes them just a bit easier to shoot well.

There are other rifles that do some things better than KAC, accuracy being one, but taken as a hole the KAC is much system than the rest. I’m not after a competition gun in an AR platform though.

I will say that while JP, Seekins, Larue, and some others a fine firearms. However, take a class with AR-10 platforms and it will paint a very different picture. When rifles go down during heavy firing schedules it’s rarely a KAC. SCAR-H and larue seem to be the first ones off the line followed by Seekins and the other top brands. That’s just anecdotal observations but sure seem to be pretty consistent.
So....who’s selling a KAC? 😁
 

LAW-DOG

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 14, 2018
314
96
34
Most of the LWRC repr hate i hear is with regards to accuracy. People claiming theirs is a 2 moa gun. You can expect 1moa or better in both the LMT and kacs.

I also owned a GA precision, and while it was the most accurate 308 i've ever shot, it was picky with ammo. I had misfeeds, and issues with primers blowing. i sent the rifle in, and they said nothing was wrong with it, they charged me for shipping back, plus the ammo they shot (I ended up spending $200).
I continued to have pickiness with ammo type. in firearms, i want my rifles to eat most anything, so the GA had to go.
The ga precision is built with match tight chambers so you can chase the lands so hand loading is a must for custom rifles like the ga precision or jp-lrp. If you use off the shelf ammo in a custom chamber it can be dangerous. My uncles 260 we know exactly how far it is to the lands & never use factory ammo, plus match ammo is expensive vs hand loading & it feeds & shoots .5 moa or better. Rifles like lmt or lwrc have long chambers & can eat any ammo. The big question for the op is if he is going to load his own or buy expensive match ammo because even the lmt won't shoot sub moa without match ammo like black hills or gold medal. Cheap ammo will not shoot sub moa in most rifles especially if they barley shoot sub moa with the best factory match ammo. If the op reloads than jp or gap10 & if not probably larue or sp10
 

TangoSierra916

Gunny Sergeant
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Oct 11, 2017
692
115
49
Madison, WI
The ga precision is built with match tight chambers so you can chase the lands so hand loading is a must for custom rifles like the ga precision or jp-lrp. If you use off the shelf ammo in a custom chamber it can be dangerous. My uncles 260 we know exactly how far it is to the lands & never use factory ammo, plus match ammo is expensive vs hand loading & it feeds & shoots .5 moa or better. Rifles like lmt or lwrc have long chambers & can eat any ammo. The big question for the op is if he is going to load his own or buy expensive match ammo because even the lmt won't shoot sub moa without match ammo like black hills or gold medal. Cheap ammo will not shoot sub moa in most rifles especially if they barley shoot sub moa with the best factory match ammo. If the op reloads than jp or gap10 & if not probably larue or sp10
Good question at the moment I’m buying match ammo but reloading may be in the future, probably should be lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: LAW-DOG

87stang

Private
Belligerents
Apr 19, 2012
107
53
34
39
college station, TX
So....who’s selling a KAC? 😁
NS Defense, Operation Parts, and Kelley Enterprise would be your go to guys online. Depending on where you are at there may be a local dealer and any dealer with access to RSR Group can order them.

The ga precision is built with match tight chambers so you can chase the lands so hand loading is a must for custom rifles like the ga precision or jp-lrp. If you use off the shelf ammo in a custom chamber it can be dangerous. My uncles 260 we know exactly how far it is to the lands & never use factory ammo, plus match ammo is expensive vs hand loading & it feeds & shoots .5 moa or better. Rifles like lmt or lwrc have long chambers & can eat any ammo. The big question for the op is if he is going to load his own or buy expensive match ammo because even the lmt won't shoot sub moa without match ammo like black hills or gold medal. Cheap ammo will not shoot sub moa in most rifles especially if they barley shoot sub moa with the best factory match ammo. If the op reloads than jp or gap10 & if not probably larue or sp10
That’s not exactly correct. I pretty sure none of these are chambered like a bolt gun to chase the lands due to OAL restrictions of the magazines. I can’t speak for GAP, Seekins, or the others but KAC tests their rifles with FGMM 7.62M2 and that is what I usually run. Less than $1.00 a round and great accuracy.

Hand loading for a Semi Auto you will reach diminishing returns very quickly. You can push chamber pressure like you can in a bolt or seating depth. Not to mention the lost and dinged up brass.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TangoSierra916

LAW-DOG

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 14, 2018
314
96
34
NS Defense, Operation Parts, and Kelley Enterprise would be your go to guys online. Depending on where you are at there may be a local dealer and any dealer with access to RSR Group can order them.



That’s not exactly correct. I pretty sure none of these are chambered like a bolt gun to chase the lands due to OAL restrictions of the magazines. I can’t speak for GAP, Seekins, or the others but KAC tests their rifles with FGMM 7.62M2 and that is what I usually run. Less than $1.00 a round and great accuracy.

Hand loading for a Semi Auto you will reach diminishing returns very quickly. You can push chamber pressure like you can in a bolt or seating depth. Not to mention the lost and dinged up brass.
I said gap10 makes match tight chambers. I know that for a fact because my uncle owns one that we had custom made for 140 Berger hybrids
 

87stang

Private
Belligerents
Apr 19, 2012
107
53
34
39
college station, TX
I said gap10 makes match tight chambers. I know that for a fact because my uncle owns one that we had custom made for 140 Berger hybrids
I’m sure that’s true. But there is still the mag length restrictions. Most AR-10 mags allow a COAL of just over 2.82. Even with $100 SR-25 mags your stuck with a COAL of around 2.90. That doesn’t leave much room to chase lands. Still a “tight match chamber” in an AR-10 platform is not the same as a “tight match chamber” in a bolt gun.
 

LAW-DOG

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 14, 2018
314
96
34
NS Defense, Operation Parts, and Kelley Enterprise would be your go to guys online. Depending on where you are at there may be a local dealer and any dealer with access to RSR Group can order them.



That’s not exactly correct. I pretty sure none of these are chambered like a bolt gun to chase the lands due to OAL restrictions of the magazines. I can’t speak for GAP, Seekins, or the others but KAC tests their rifles with FGMM 7.62M2 and that is what I usually run. Less than $1.00 a round and great accuracy.

Hand loading for a Semi Auto you will reach diminishing returns very quickly. You can push chamber pressure like you can in a bolt or seating depth. Not to mention the lost and dinged up brass.
Reloading will always beat factory in precision & cost. You would rather spend $1.00 or more per round vs $0.30-0.50 a round. I deal with dinged up brass no problem & I don’t loose very many
 

LAW-DOG

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 14, 2018
314
96
34
I’m sure that’s true. But there is still the mag length restrictions. Most AR-10 mags allow a COAL of just over 2.82. Even with $100 SR-25 mags your stuck with a COAL of around 2.90. That doesn’t leave much room to chase lands. Still a “tight match chamber” in an AR-10 platform is not the same as a “tight match chamber” in a bolt gun.
The ga precision my uncle reloads for has a 2.82in coal & 15 thousandths jump to the lands with 140 hybrids & it shoots .5moa or better. He couldn’t do that with factory match ammo. The cost is less than $0.50 a round & that makes it a lot less expensive to practice for competition with bolts or ar15/10 rifles
 

87stang

Private
Belligerents
Apr 19, 2012
107
53
34
39
college station, TX
Reloading will always beat factory in precision & cost. You would rather spend $1.00 or more per round vs $0.30-0.50 a round. I deal with dinged up brass no problem & I don’t loose very many
If you shoot from a static position then it’s pretty easy to find your brass. Start shooting matches and lots of position work and moving positions and it becomes more difficult, especially with time constraints in between shooter and stages.

There is a definite possibility of increased accuracy with hand loads. The shooter is more often the limiting factor with a semi. I find it more advisable to spend the time shooting and building skill than reloading. Once you’ve reached the point where you are shooting to the ammo’s capability then look at reloading.

And yes, for a semi, I’d rather buy factory ammo then spend my time in the reloading room. My time is valuable and I never have enough of it.

Going into reloading for cost saving is not a wise decision to me. By the time you factor in good presses, good powder measures like the auto trickle, annealing equipment, dies, brass prep equipment, and associated items your not saving much. Factor in your time and it’s even less. The time it takes me to load 500 rounds that would outperform FGMM is not worth it to me to save $200. I’ll keep the reloading for the bolt gun and use the time I save reloading for semi to get out and shoot. YMMV
 

87stang

Private
Belligerents
Apr 19, 2012
107
53
34
39
college station, TX
The ga precision my uncle reloads for has a 2.82in coal & 15 thousandths jump to the lands with 140 hybrids & it shoots .5moa or better. He couldn’t do that with factory match ammo. The cost is less than $0.50 a round & that makes it a lot less expensive to practice for competition with bolts or ar15/10 rifles
COAL of 2.82 and .015” off the lands leaves no room to chase lands at mag length.

I’d shot several Hornady factory loads that are capable of .5” accuracy and bought on sale can be had for about $1.20 a round. That’s a savings of $0.70. A $350 dollar difference for 500rds. Factor in the time it takes to load and it’s a wash. FGMM 7.62 is a solid .5” load in everything I run it in.

My point is, if you enjoy reloading, great, go for it. But reloading has a high investment cost in both time and money. For a semi the gains are worth the effort just aren’t with the effort IMHO
 

LAW-DOG

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 14, 2018
314
96
34
If you shoot from a static position then it’s pretty easy to find your brass. Start shooting matches and lots of position work and moving positions and it becomes more difficult, especially with time constraints in between shooter and stages.

There is a definite possibility of increased accuracy with hand loads. The shooter is more often the limiting factor with a semi. I find it more advisable to spend the time shooting and building skill than reloading. Once you’ve reached the point where you are shooting to the ammo’s capability then look at reloading.

And yes, for a semi, I’d rather buy factory ammo then spend my time in the reloading room. My time is valuable and I never have enough of it.

Going into reloading for cost saving is not a wise decision to me. By the time you factor in good presses, good powder measures like the auto trickle, annealing equipment, dies, brass prep equipment, and associated items your not saving much. Factor in your time and it’s even less. The time it takes me to load 500 rounds that would outperform FGMM is not worth it to me to save $200. I’ll keep the reloading for the bolt gun and use the time I save reloading for semi to get out and shoot. YMMV
For most of us reloaders we already own most of the equipment & it doesn’t take long at all to reload. We have a Dillon progressive press that can make hundreds of rounds in no time & we also have the Forster coax press that also speeds things up. So maybe for you it doesn’t make sense but for those of us who shoot a lot, we can’t afford gold medal match that is $0.80-1.25 a round. At our gun shop we have customers who buy our reloads to practice with for a lot less than what you can buy them for. I’ve been shooting a long time now & if my grandfather & uncle didn’t teach me to reload I couldn’t afford to shoot. I shoot about 500 308 & 260 a month on top 500 223s. That’s $400 vs $800-1000 a month, $4800 vs $9600-12000 a year & I don’t shoot near as much as real competition shooters who practice 4-5 days a week. Also chasing the lands could be 50 thousandths off to right up to the lands, so we had the chamber built for 140 hybrids to be off 15 thousandths off at 2.82in because we know it works well & that’s how we load it, that is chasing the lands literally
 
Last edited:

87stang

Private
Belligerents
Apr 19, 2012
107
53
34
39
college station, TX
For most of us reloaders we already own most of the equipment & it doesn’t take long at all to reload. We have a Dillon progressive press that can make hundreds of rounds in no time & we also have the Forster coax press that also speeds things up. So maybe for you it doesn’t make sense but for those of us who shoot a lot, we can’t afford gold medal match that is $0.80-1.25 a round. At our gun shop we have customers who buy our reloads to practice with for a lot less than what you can buy them for. I’ve been shooting a long time now & if my grandfather & uncle didn’t teach me to reload I couldn’t afford to shoot. I shoot about 500 308 & 260 a month on top 500 223s. That’s $400 vs $800-1000 a month, $4800 vs $9600-12000 a year & I don’t shoot near as much as real competition shooters who practice 4-5 days a week

There is justification for reloading. I’m not knocking it. I’ve got all the equipment to do it, from Dillon 650 set up for precision rifle rounds with floating tool heads to a auto trickler.
I shoot a lot, not as much as some but more than most. Looks like we have shoot roughly the same volume. My personal outlook is probably slightly skewed. My work schedule cuts into available reloading time.

If your already set up for reloading it is a cost saver. But if your just starting out and having to get set up to produce quality ammo quickly there is little to know cost saving. It takes a while to average out. A guy just starting out with a large frame gas gun i believe is better suited with range time than reloading time. If finances don’t allow for factory ammo then they are not gonna allow for reloading equipment either. I’ve easily got a couple grand in my reloading equipment. The cost factor boils down to wether your already set up or not. Either way it’s a balance of cost verse time
 
  • Like
Reactions: LAW-DOG

LAW-DOG

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 14, 2018
314
96
34
There is justification for reloading. I’m not knocking it. I’ve got all the equipment to do it, from Dillon 650 set up for precision rifle rounds with floating tool heads to a auto trickler.
I shoot a lot, not as much as some but more than most. Looks like we have shoot roughly the same volume. My personal outlook is probably slightly skewed. My work schedule cuts into available reloading time.

If your already set up for reloading it is a cost saver. But if your just starting out and having to get set up to produce quality ammo quickly there is little to know cost saving. It takes a while to average out. A guy just starting out with a large frame gas gun i believe is better suited with range time than reloading time. If finances don’t allow for factory ammo then they are not gonna allow for reloading equipment either. I’ve easily got a couple grand in my reloading equipment. The cost factor boils down to wether your already set up or not. Either way it’s a balance of cost verse time
its definitely costly but I didn’t buy everything at once. A little here a little there next thing you know you got $3000-5000 in equipment. If your a casual shooter then buy ammo makes sense but if you are shooting 500+ a month it’s probably wise to start buying equipment. When you start out you keep it simple & learn as you go
 

LAW-DOG

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 14, 2018
314
96
34
There is justification for reloading. I’m not knocking it. I’ve got all the equipment to do it, from Dillon 650 set up for precision rifle rounds with floating tool heads to a auto trickler.
I shoot a lot, not as much as some but more than most. Looks like we have shoot roughly the same volume. My personal outlook is probably slightly skewed. My work schedule cuts into available reloading time.

If your already set up for reloading it is a cost saver. But if your just starting out and having to get set up to produce quality ammo quickly there is little to know cost saving. It takes a while to average out. A guy just starting out with a large frame gas gun i believe is better suited with range time than reloading time. If finances don’t allow for factory ammo then they are not gonna allow for reloading equipment either. I’ve easily got a couple grand in my reloading equipment. The cost factor boils down to wether your already set up or not. Either way it’s a balance of cost verse time
Smart move on the Dillon 650 that’s what our gun shop uses & the Forster coax
 

87stang

Private
Belligerents
Apr 19, 2012
107
53
34
39
college station, TX
its definitely costly but I didn’t buy everything at once. A little here a little there next thing you know you got $3000-5000 in equipment. If your a casual shooter then buy ammo makes sense but if you are shooting 500+ a month it’s probably wise to start buying equipment. When you start out you keep it simple & learn as you go
Absolutely. Sound advice. We may have been on the same page all along just coming from different angles. I got the impression the OP didn’t already reload, hence my stance on factory ammo. Shooting a large frame AR well is a skill set that takes a lot more work than a bolt gun. Not everyone on the hide shoots like some of us do. Hell, normal people look at me funny for what I spend on ammo and there are guys on here that loose more ammo a year than I shot. I see a lot of people suggest reloading as a first coarse of action and it’s not always the best coarse of action. You gotta weigh the pros and cons and make sure it’s worth the investment. At this point for me, reloading for a semi is not advantageous, later that may change
 

LAW-DOG

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 14, 2018
314
96
34
Absolutely. Sound advice. We may have been on the same page all along just coming from different angles. I got the impression the OP didn’t already reload, hence my stance on factory ammo. Shooting a large frame AR well is a skill set that takes a lot more work than a bolt gun. Not everyone on the hide shoots like some of us do. Hell, normal people look at me funny for what I spend on ammo and there are guys on here that loose more ammo a year than I shot. I see a lot of people suggest reloading as a first coarse of action and it’s not always the best coarse of action. You gotta weigh the pros and cons and make sure it’s worth the investment. At this point for me, reloading for a semi is not advantageous, later that may change
At this point it would be good to find a group of experienced shooters & learn from better shooters. I’m always looking to shoot with better shooters than myself because there’s always more to learn. For someone just starting the local sportsman warehouse has a reloading class every month & go to some classes learn the equipment. Figure out how much you are going to shoot & if your not shooting that much then factory ammo makes sense. You should see the looks we get when my group goes to the public range with our labradar, magnetospeed, spotting scopes, & one older guy brings a big toolbox full of gunsmithing & reloading stuff to make adjustments to his load at the range using an arbor press & Wilson microseater
 

87stang

Private
Belligerents
Apr 19, 2012
107
53
34
39
college station, TX
Right on. I’m fortunate in that I have an awesome range local to me that hosts monthly PRS events, 3 gun, USPSA, Steel Challenge, night matches and a whole host of other matches and classes. Hell, the Loan Survivor match is coming up there soon. Most every body there is a serious shooter and the wealth of knowledge you can gain from that kind of environment is invaluable. Hell, if you rolled up with all your gear you would definitely not be out of place.

Training is absolutely key and will accelerate the learning curve drastically. No matter what the discipline.
 

GUNNER10

Sergeant
Belligerents
Mar 10, 2005
324
41
34
39
md
I have an LMT, have shot M110's and am tossing around the idea of selling my scar picking up a KAC CC.

The KAC is the most refined 308 gas gun on the market. Compared to my LMT, it is a little smoother and a little lighter, is it worth the 2x premium, maybe.

With that being said. The LMT is way more capable than the KAC since the MWS is more a system than a purpose developed 16 inch 308.

What I love about the LMT is being able go from a lightweight 13.5 308 and use it as a carbine and 30 seconds later drop a 6.5 barrel on it and have a legit 1200 yard performer. That's not something I could do with a Kac CC without throwing thousands at a spare upper.

So for me i am will to take that hit in carbine configuration of not being the smoothest, lightest 308 gas gun in the world, it dead reliable and built like a tank. My 6.5cm barrel is a legit 3/4 MOA barrel.
 

The DFC

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Apr 14, 2018
462
319
69
White Bear Lake, MN
I have an LMT, have shot M110's and am tossing around the idea of selling my scar picking up a KAC CC.

The KAC is the most refined 308 gas gun on the market. Compared to my LMT, it is a little smoother and a little lighter, is it worth the 2x premium, maybe.

With that being said. The LMT is way more capable than the KAC since the MWS is more a system than a purpose developed 16 inch 308.

What I love about the LMT is being able go from a lightweight 13.5 308 and use it as a carbine and 30 seconds later drop a 6.5 barrel on it and have a legit 1200 yard performer. That's not something I could do with a Kac CC without throwing thousands at a spare upper.

So for me i am will to take that hit in carbine configuration of not being the smoothest, lightest 308 gas gun in the world, it dead reliable and built like a tank. My 6.5cm barrel is a legit 3/4 MOA barrel.

Almost exactly my thoughts on LMT and KAC-right down to the 6.5cm barrel being a hammer. All that being said-3 LMTs happily in stable-I still want an SR25 real bad.

AR15 however the KAC LPR is an unending love affair!
 

TangoSierra916

Gunny Sergeant
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Oct 11, 2017
692
115
49
Madison, WI
Thanks everyone for the help so far, after researching more and hearing feedback I’m thinking KAC. Any model yould recommend for comps and all around performance?

I found this one with the 20” barrel or would you go more true to a m110?

Knights Armament SR-25 E2 Advanced Precision Rifle in .308 20”.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dbraun89

87stang

Private
Belligerents
Apr 19, 2012
107
53
34
39
college station, TX
I have an LMT, have shot M110's and am tossing around the idea of selling my scar picking up a KAC CC.

The KAC is the most refined 308 gas gun on the market. Compared to my LMT, it is a little smoother and a little lighter, is it worth the 2x premium, maybe.

With that being said. The LMT is way more capable than the KAC since the MWS is more a system than a purpose developed 16 inch 308.

What I love about the LMT is being able go from a lightweight 13.5 308 and use it as a carbine and 30 seconds later drop a 6.5 barrel on it and have a legit 1200 yard performer. That's not something I could do with a Kac CC without throwing thousands at a spare upper.

So for me i am will to take that hit in carbine configuration of not being the smoothest, lightest 308 gas gun in the world, it dead reliable and built like a tank. My 6.5cm barrel is a legit 3/4 MOA barrel.
That’s an accurate summation. You can’t go wrong with either one. It really just boils down to intended use. If you want a slight edge in accuracy and modularity then LMT is the way to go. If you are going to stick with one configuration then KAC takes a slight edge but costly edge.
 

TangoSierra916

Gunny Sergeant
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Oct 11, 2017
692
115
49
Madison, WI
That’s an accurate summation. You can’t go wrong with either one. It really just boils down to intended use. If you want a slight edge in accuracy and modularity then LMT is the way to go. If you are going to stick with one configuration then KAC takes a slight edge but costly edge.
I agree there, if you went LMT is there a specific model yould recommend?