Leica PRS 5-30×56 with PRB Reticle

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1 MOA = 2 AAF
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All those X + | and • marks are screwing my eyes up. Too many shapes for this lad. And I like the tree to extend horizontally to at least 2 MRAD on the first two vertical MRADs. 3 MRAD is better.

I like the vortex 2c (maybe 7c), NF Mil-Xt, and S&B's Grid (GR2ID).

Dang. Leica makes some nice stuff.
 
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wjm308

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Wow! I did not think Leica would go the FFP tactical route, that looks sweet, if glass is as good as Magnus, that might be one impressive scope for the price! They also stole my reticle design with a center circle but mine has the center dot as well whereas I do not see a center dot with there's, seems a bit more cluttered than I like, but if the tree is done right it might be similar to GR2ID and disappear when you don't need it.
 

wjm308

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I just read that Cal Zant designed the reticle but was just used as a resource for Leica into the US competition market, very interesting.
 
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Forrest84

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Not bad, I actually like the reticle a lot. I still run a couple gen II XR’s so having a + symbol is a big deal at all in fact I actually like it
 

wjm308

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Wide FOV at bottom end (24.7' @ 100y at 5x is better than all other 5-25 class alpha scopes), short design for magnification range at 14.37" (shorter than Kahles K525i!). 10 mil turrets with toolless zero. Some pretty impressive specs for sure! Cal got a little too Horusy for my taste, but could be nice especially for competition which is what this scope is clearly aimed for. Wish Leica would have also introduced a 3.3-20x50 PRS scope as well, but I'm sure they have something similar already in the works. The big question now is how quickly they can get this to market, if they're like Schmidt we won't actually see it until 2022 :D
 

samb300

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What is up with only having 1 mil of vertical stadia above the center point??? Same with the Minox MR4 and the ZCO MPCT3. Am I the only one that does hold-unders to save time at matches? I've also had "no scope touch" stages out to 1000, where it makes way more sense to dial 'zero' at 6 or 700 yards and do a mixture of hold-unders and hold-overs. I don't like to hold over out at 8 or 9 mils if I don't have to.

Also, when shooting a spinner, it's extremely useful to keep track of the axis of rotation with your reticle. Usually it's around 2 mils above the center of the spinner you're shooting. So this reticle would be completely useless for that...

All that said, I would like to see how their tool-less turrets work. That is my big ask for every company's next-gen scopes!
 

samb300

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I also don't understand the giant numbers on the centerline of the tree, in addition to having the numbers on both sides of the tree. Shoot holdovers with a Vortex EBR-2C and you'll see that those big numbers get in the way when you're holding over and don't need to hold wind.
 

wjm308

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What is up with only having 1 mil of vertical stadia above the center point??? Same with the Minox MR4 and the ZCO MPCT3. Am I the only one that does hold-unders to save time at matches? I've also had "no scope touch" stages out to 1000, where it makes way more sense to dial 'zero' at 6 or 700 yards and do a mixture of hold-unders and hold-overs. I don't like to hold over out at 8 or 9 mils if I don't have to.

Also, when shooting a spinner, it's extremely useful to keep track of the axis of rotation with your reticle. Usually it's around 2 mils above the center of the spinner you're shooting. So this reticle would be completely useless for that...

All that said, I would like to see how their tool-less turrets work. That is my big ask for every company's next-gen scopes!
Sounds like the Schmidt GR2ID is the reticle for you ;) You are not the only one who does hold unders, but most I think keep their zero at 100 and use the tree for holdovers out to 1000, anything under 100 isn't going to be more than a mil of holdover for centerfire. I would be curious to learn of the advantage of zeroing at 6-700 yards and how that has helped you.

I also don't understand the giant numbers on the centerline of the tree, in addition to having the numbers on both sides of the tree. Shoot holdovers with a Vortex EBR-2C and you'll see that those big numbers get in the way when you're holding over and don't need to hold wind.
I agree, the numbers near the center are unnecessary and distracting
 

samb300

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@wjm308 I'm referring to PRS stages where you can't touch your scope on the clock, but aren't required to keep it at a true zero. So you can dial the elevation for 700yds. Hold under for the 500 and 600 targets, dead on at 700, and hold over for 800, 900, 1000. You end up staying in the center of the reticle.

I also use it to save time on near-far stages. All of my club matches are 90 seconds. When we have a 300/600 stage (back and forth, 1 shot each) there is not enough time to dial each target. If there is no wind, I prefer to dial for the 600yd target for higher precision, and hold under for the 300yd target where I can get away with a worse wind call.
 
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spife7980

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Spife, your coconut launcher comment made me spit my water out of my mouth :LOL:
Yeah lol, I deleted it though because I misread. He didnt want to hold 8-9 mils from a 100 yard zero, not his 6-700 yard "stage zero".
Still dont really understand his point though. Dial it for the closest target and its just hold over, probably a 5 mils max with a chubby 308.
But whatever gets your rocks off doesnt matter to me. Personally I like the uncluttered upper part but its ehh.
 
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samb300

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@spife7980 I like to stay centered in the reticle whenever I can. Frank has also talked about distortion as you leave the center area of the reticle. I understand it for ELR when you run out of mechanical travel, but at 1000 yards I don't want to be holding 8.6 mils elevation and 1.3 mils windage out on a tree if I don't have to.

I have been using the EBR-2C for 4 years now, and the tree doesn't have dots in between whole mils. So you can easily end up in "no man's land" even at 5 or 600 yards if you're holding over in between the dots.
 

wjm308

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@wjm308 I'm referring to PRS stages where you can't touch your scope on the clock, but aren't required to keep it at a true zero. So you can dial the elevation for 700yds. Hold under for the 500 and 600 targets, dead on at 700, and hold over for 800, 900, 1000. You end up staying in the center of the reticle.

I also use it to save time on near-far stages. All of my club matches are 90 seconds. When we have a 300/600 stage (back and forth, 1 shot each) there is not enough time to dial each target. If there is no wind, I prefer to dial for the 600yd target for higher precision, and hold under for the 300yd target where I can get away with a worse wind call.
That is interesting for sure, I'm going to have to think about that one a bit more, for me I'd be worried I forgot I changed zero for the next stage
 

just browsing

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I think 1 mil over center on the vertical is more than enough for majority of shooters.

Only time I can recall using hold under was at the finale, dialing for the far mover and then holding under for the closer targets off the barricade. Worked fine but I don’t foresee ever needing more than a mil for that.

I understand what Sam is getting at, but remembering which targets to hold over/under and how much is too much for my small brain to handle under pressure.
 

samb300

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I think 1 mil over center on the vertical is more than enough for majority of shooters.

Only time I can recall using hold under was at the finale, dialing for the far mover and then holding under for the closer targets off the barricade. Worked fine but I don’t foresee ever needing more than a mil for that.

I understand what Sam is getting at, but remembering which targets to hold over/under and how much is too much for my small brain to handle under pressure.
On a spinner it is seriously helpful to have at least 2 mils above horizontal to keep track of where you’re aiming.
 
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samb300

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That is interesting for sure, I'm going to have to think about that one a bit more, for me I'd be worried I forgot I changed zero for the next stage
You don't change your scope's zero...I'm talking about dialing for a distance, i.e. turning the elevation knob to 4.5 mils for your 700 yard target. It's no different than dialing for any other stage.
 

308pirate

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I also don't understand the giant numbers on the centerline of the tree, in addition to having the numbers on both sides of the tree. Shoot holdovers with a Vortex EBR-2C and you'll see that those big numbers get in the way when you're holding over and don't need to hold wind.
They can't please everyone, now can they?
 

spife7980

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I still dont get why you wouldnt just dial for the closer target and just hold over so you only have to work in one direction. And I dont get how elevation at 600 has anything to do with the windcall for 300. And I dont get why you are shooting a spinner by holding under 2 mils instead of just dialing for the distance its at.

Seems to me its not as complicated as its made out to be.
 

Hairy Biker

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HORUS does like to send rude legal letters to people.

But I am more interested in the tooless turrets. I have had one elevation turret go south on me in a match because I had not tightened the screws and I have been religious in cross checking since then.
 
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samb300

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I still dont get why you wouldnt just dial for the closer target and just hold over so you only have to work in one direction. And I dont get how elevation at 600 has anything to do with the windcall for 300. And I dont get why you are shooting a spinner by holding under 2 mils instead of just dialing for the distance its at.

Seems to me its not as complicated as its made out to be.
Have you shot a spinner? It’s typically at 300yds. DIAL 1.0 mils elevation.

Conveniently the center crossbar is 2.0 mils ABOVE where you’re aiming. You shoot the spinner, it starts moving, and...where the hell do you aim??? If you have a vertical stadia line you can simply put the 2.0 mil mark on the crossbar and wait for the spinner to swing where you want it before taking the next shot.

On the other example I dial for 600 and hold under at 300 because I find it to be more precise to aim at the center of the reticle for the far (i.e. smaller and more affected by wind) target.

So...DIAL 3.6 mils for 600yds, hold center, bang. Hold under 2.5 mils for the close target which at 300 yds is more forgiving.
 

samb300

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I’ll just say this:

We can argue til we’re blue in the face about what makes the “perfect” reticle. But can you (or someone at Leica) explain why there is only 1 mil of vertical stadia? Does it give some benefit or performance advantage?

I’ve never missed a shot because the 0.04 mil thick vertical line was in the way, but it has helped me when I held under because clearly I’m an insane person haha. So I won’t buy their scope for that reason, even though it looks great otherwise.
 

wjm308

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You don't change your scope's zero...I'm talking about dialing for a distance, i.e. turning the elevation knob to 4.5 mils for your 700 yard target. It's no different than dialing for any other stage.
Ooooohhh, gotcha, I thought you were changing zero, that is where I was confused, but yes, dialing for a set distance and then using the holds to adjust, that makes a lot more sense :geek:
 

ohiofarmer

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I like the specs on this. I’m wondering if the reticle illumination time listed, 4hrs., is the time before it automatically shuts off (I would assume!) as opposed to being the dismal runtime of the battery?
 
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ThePretzel

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I’ll just say this:

We can argue til we’re blue in the face about what makes the “perfect” reticle. But can you (or someone at Leica) explain why there is only 1 mil of vertical stadia? Does it give some benefit or performance advantage?
If you read the article you can see the explanation from the reticle's designer himself. He left very little vertical stadia because he likes to use the top half of the scope for observation and wanted it free of any reticle marks.

I disagree with that line of thinking because a full vertical crosshair with 0.5 mil hashes is useful in enough circumstances (spinners and hold unders) to warrant adding it and it doesn't block your ability to observe with the top half of the reticle. The designer disagreed with me, and you as well it seems, and so it didn't make it into the design.
 
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spife7980

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But can you (or someone at Leica) explain why there is only 1 mil of vertical stadia? Does it give some benefit or performance advantage?
I cant explain the why as its purely subjective and the creators preference, I just like the unbostructed view myself because I never use the top part shooting but when watching others shots downrange I do look above the tree features for a cleaner picture. I dont put the reticle eye piece in my spotter anymore for the same reason. Clean picture is just more pleasant to look at even if it does offer less information.
 
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tomcfc11

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They have the L-ballistic reticle that looks promising as well. Looks like plus sign to .2 in the center with .2 on windage and .5 on elevation. 5 mils high to take care of hold under and spinner targets. This is the reticle that interests me.
 
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Soulezoo

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Was there a weight listed for this?
I am curious because I do rock a Magnus 2.4-16 56 on my hunting rifle and it's only 27 oz.
Of course, weight is usually the least of concern for the intended purpose here.
I am really impressed with the glass on the Magnus but have not compared to ZCO or TT.

I can tell you that the Magnus (bdc turret) has been mechanically perfect for me. However, it is a SFP scope.

Very interested in what Ilya has to say.
 
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wjm308

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Was there a weight listed for this?
I am curious because I do rock a Magnus 2.4-16 56 on my hunting rifle and it's only 27 oz.
Of course, weight is usually the least of concern for the intended purpose here.
I am really impressed with the glass on the Magnus but have not compared to ZCO or TT.

I can tell you that the Magnus (bdc turret) has been mechanically perfect for me. However, it is a SFP scope.

Very interested in what Ilya has to say.
It's listed at 36.3 oz - not out of the ordinary for a FFP scope of this size and magnification
 
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rydah

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I heard there were some prototypes floating around for this a few months back and that they compared favourably to other high scopes. Nice to see it released and ready to go.

10mil turrets is nice and the short package is also nice. Weight isnt too bad.

Shame the holdover reticle doesn’t just have a normal centre dot, the circle could be nice for shooting groups at 100m, since I use 1cm dots to shoot anyways but you’d have to try it out to see if you like it. Don’t imagine it would be for everyone because at distance I reckon I just see it as annoying/distracting.
Not sure why he went full retard on the horus style horizontal lines everywhere and the 100000 mils of horizontal holdover/vertical holdovers but whatever. The LBallistic reticle seems normal enough though.
 
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skatz11

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This looks like a nice scope. I like the reticle choices and features

This looks very similar to the latest Delta Stryker with the locking elevation and center rev indicator. If my hunch is correct that’s a good thing. That scope is held in high regard and difficult to get here in the US.

Take a look at the overall dimensions and weights of the two scopes.

I screen capped these two pictures of the elevation turret with the caps removed.

PRB Article:
C914086B-C8E9-4C1E-A9E0-75C3E71D27E3.jpeg

Latest Gen Delta
DBF0F7CB-1DC7-4D4A-8EAC-840D4D6E91C4.jpeg
 

wjm308

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^^^ That is eerily similar skatz ILya has the inside scoop on the Delta Stryker’s so will be curious to get his thoughts, I believe he is visiting Leica on Thursday
 
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stello1001

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^^^ That is eerily similar skatz ILya has the inside scoop on the Delta Stryker’s so will be curious to get his thoughts, I believe he is visiting Leica on Thursday
If you ask me, they share the exact same internals. Who knows though, I'm just saying based on what I see above.
 
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Mike Casselton

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A big hard pass for me because of the reticule. Wtf with the 0.1 mil hollow dot in the center.
Copied that nonsense that Nikon has been pushing for the last 20+ years.
Burris did a Peep Plex.
They gave it up very quickly.

Small dots are fine, circles are just dumb. But hey, what do I know. I don't shoot PRS.
 
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spife7980

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It is only .1 mils wide though, that’s a pretty small aperture. I like small apertures in my iron sight annie paper puncher. Maybe this will be fine enough that it lets you put it exactly where you want it.

Who wide was the open center of the razor gen1?

Edit: the gen 1 is .07 mils... not sure if I like it larger or smaller
 
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supercorndogs

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Look at it on 30x, that center is nothing like the giant circles nikon used. I like it. I don't like how so many of the center dot reticles remove the wind holds close to the center of the reticle.
 
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