Is the ATACR worth the extra money compared to the Vortex Gen 2 for strictly PRS style matches?

morganlamprecht

Sergeant
Belligerents
Nov 5, 2013
1,195
1,227
219
and thats where opinions vary...ive got the means to own any scopes and have had hands on/used all the top tier ones at some point...last year went back to all gen 2s for the total package they offer cause thats what i prefer after 2 yrs of rotating various optics
 

308pirate

Gunny Sergeant
Belligerents
Apr 25, 2017
6,927
5,721
119
I didn't say they never break, I am just saying they Nightforce doesn't need attend major events with a bunch of stock to replace failed optics. People only praise Vortex's "legendary" warranty because sooner or later you will need it.
1565793768331.png
 

Rob01

Super Mod/Team Blaster
Staff member
Jul 9, 2001
9,971
1,182
219
NC
www.teamblaster.net
It just not a way of thinking. Its the countless stories heard, first hand experience and knowing people with problems. I live about 25 miles from Vortex, there is plenty of market share in my area to hear a lot about it.
We are talking about Razor II scopes. Not Crossfires or Diamondbacks or even PSTs. That is the problem. People get a bad PSTor their buddy buys a crossfire for their .338 and it breaks and they say all Vortex sucks. Not true. They make a wide range of optics from $199 to $2500 and in this thread the OP is asking about Razor IIs. Not others in the line. Vague statements like above are doing nothing to help the OP with the question about Razor II scopes.

The Razor II scopes have proven themselves reliable and capable since they came out in PRS matches and other use. Have some failed? Yup. So have every other brand. NF makes great scopes also but again the question is is there a $1000 difference. And it's not all about "the means" either. I have the means and have used S&Bs, NF, USOs, Hensoldts etc in my years of competing and know about what optics bring to the table. If you think that your money is better spent at NF then get one. it's your money but it comes down more once in this price bracket to the features and reticles. I like the knobs and reticles better on the Razors. I like how they zero also. I moved from S&B 5-25s to the Razors for that reason. Glass was a push.

So OP take a look at them and see what you like and where your money is better spent. And remember when reading all this to look at people who have used the Razor IIs and not other in the Vortex line to get a direct comparison and opinion to help your decision.
 
  • Like
Reactions: M8541Reaper

5RWill

Optics Fiend
Belligerents
Oct 15, 2009
4,764
980
219
28
Mississippi
To the OP's question pick the reticle you prefer and go with it. Both are reliable quality optics. For the money the Gen II razor can't be beat especially if you pick up the phone or go used. Literally a 4.5-27x56 for $1450 in the px right now, that is absurd.

Glass wise i think it's all sample variance. They're both specing from LOW and assembling in the US to my knowledge. The particular ATACR i just let go was gorgeous. Competed very well against my ZP5 which i didn't expect. My AMG i felt didn't resolve quite as well as the ZP5 or ATACR. I've only seen three ATACRS and a good bit of Gen IIs, but i still think the IQ varies from scope to scope on near about every manufacturer until you get to the tip of the iceberg.

Personally i'd be indecisive between the two. I really liked the ATACR i just had and the Mil-C/Mil-XT are my favorite reticles on the market. I found the ATACR for me was hard to get behind at 25x. Gen II is cheaper and will give you the same quality glass for the most part, but i'm not the biggest fan of the EBR7C. It's just alright to me. The horizontal lines are entirely too big for my liking.

Ultimately is the NF worth $1100 more? That can only be answered by you. IMHO? No they're very similar in a lot of respects to IQ.
 

dyecocker1

Private
Minuteman
Jun 12, 2019
17
12
6
Are you talking about GenII Razors or AMG's? If you are I am interested in hearing what issues these scopes had and how they fixed them.

Thanks.
It really should not matter what Vortex I am talking about. Product failure is unacceptable no matter the cost whether they warranty it or not. On the high end models I have heard mainly turret/tracking/returntozero problems. What can they do besides fix it and hope like hell it doesn't fail again
 

dyecocker1

Private
Minuteman
Jun 12, 2019
17
12
6
I was not trying to place the SHV in the same class as the Razor or AMG. I used it to demonstrate that even a "low end" scope from a company should be reliable.
 

Rekkr870

Insert witty title here.
Belligerents
Dec 19, 2011
136
167
49
27
The Dirty South
It really should not matter what Vortex I am talking about. Product failure is unacceptable no matter the cost whether they warranty it or not. On the high end models I have heard mainly turret/tracking/returntozero problems. What can they do besides fix it and hope like hell it doesn't fail again
It does matter. People throw out these accusations and never say names or product lines which is quite shady and shouldn't be trusted. If something fails, people would generally like to know about it. Shit does break, including my TT, my Steiner Military, and my Minox. Be objective, if you've got evidence that would be cool. EVERY scope can and possibly will break, including Nightforce. I am genuinely curious.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rob01

dyecocker1

Private
Minuteman
Jun 12, 2019
17
12
6
It does matter. People throw out these accusations and never say names or product lines which is quite shady and shouldn't be trusted. If something fails, people would generally like to know about it. Shit does break, including my TT, my Steiner Military, and my Minox. Be objective, if you've got evidence that would be cool. EVERY scope can and possibly will break, including Nightforce. I am genuinely curious.
Why would someone lie and spread failure rumors about something they purchased that failed? Oh look at me, I made a bad decision, and now I want the whole world to know!:ROFLMAO: I will definitely ask for a signed affidavit, with a full video review and proof of warranty work from Vortex every time someone tells me or I hear of yet another Vortex Razor failure so you can believe me. My bad
 

Rob01

Super Mod/Team Blaster
Staff member
Jul 9, 2001
9,971
1,182
219
NC
www.teamblaster.net
Honestly my biggest complaint with vortex, aside from the reticle is how you zero the turrets. I cannot abide this LTEC nonsense.
That's one of the best features in my opinion. Never have to be a little off. You can get a perfect zero. Yes it's not as easy as just spinning the knobs but the more you do it the easier it is.
 

Rekkr870

Insert witty title here.
Belligerents
Dec 19, 2011
136
167
49
27
The Dirty South
Why would someone lie and spread failure rumors about something they purchased that failed? Oh look at me, I made a bad decision, and now I want the whole world to know!:ROFLMAO: I will definitely ask for a signed affidavit, with a full video review and proof of warranty work from Vortex every time someone tells me or I hear of yet another Vortex Razor failure so you can believe me. My bad
Oh look, a comedian.

You’re jumping around the question and hearsay doesn’t add up to much of anything. I don’t think we are going to get anywhere with this; I am going to bow out.

As to the OP's question, No, I don’t think that it is worth the extra grand for the ATACR in PRS.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rob01

morganlamprecht

Sergeant
Belligerents
Nov 5, 2013
1,195
1,227
219
Why would someone lie and spread failure rumors about something they purchased that failed? Oh look at me, I made a bad decision, and now I want the whole world to know!:ROFLMAO: I will definitely ask for a signed affidavit, with a full video review and proof of warranty work from Vortex every time someone tells me or I hear of yet another Vortex Razor failure so you can believe me. My bad
2 of the 3 razors in my safe I bought as “broken” from people who thought they had issues and were certain they we’re broke and sending them in...

In the future you May even give them my contact info and I might buy the broken ones from em
 

dyecocker1

Private
Minuteman
Jun 12, 2019
17
12
6
Oh look, a comedian.

You’re jumping around the question and hearsay doesn’t add up to much of anything. I don’t think we are going to get anywhere with this; I am going to bow out.

As to the OP's question, No, I don’t think that it is worth the extra grand for the ATACR in PRS.
Sorry, I guess I do not know what else I can tell you. I am just glad I dodged a bullet and started off with the NXS line 10 or so years ago and never bought any of that other... :poop: Buy what you want, just don't be so damn defensive when you hear other peoples experiences, if you are happy, great, enjoy.
 

5RWill

Optics Fiend
Belligerents
Oct 15, 2009
4,764
980
219
28
Mississippi
The problem is you're using $500 scope to quantify their quality across the board, which is disingenuous at best. Gen II razor's aren't failing at some alarming rate. Hell last i heard from a Vortex rep they only had a 5% failure rate on the PST Gen II which is considerably cheaper, considering the sheer volume they move, that is good. PRS was absolutely dominated by Vortex in the beginning when the Gen II was introduced. It was the first $2500 optic to have quality features across the board with glass that would compete with S&B and the like that were considerably more expensive at the time. As such there are a ton of GIIs out there, which is why you've probably heard and seen them failing more than other scopes. Because they're simply more of them being used that's it. It wasn't until the last year that NF really gained ground in the comp sector due to the new reticles (much needed Mil-R/MOAR are ass IMO) and the last three years that Kahles burst on the scene.

NF has a great track record but they're not impervious to mistakes, there are plenty that break, as DT noted.

So yeah the reason people are giving you shit is because what you're saying is patently false. It'd be like saying Minox or any other huge brand sucks whilst discussing the best optic they field but really you're talking about their cheap stuff made in the Philippines.
 

CATM15

You coming to the BBQ?
Belligerents
Minuteman
Aug 1, 2018
235
77
34
I’ve had both. Been happy with both. I prefer the night force over the vortex. Never had to use any kind of warranty but it was nice knowing it was there for both companies. It’s all user preference with these as they pack the same qualities. Do I notice the quality difference? Slightly in favor of the NF but is it worth the 1k difference... that’s up to you to decide.
 

Diver160651

Who cares
Belligerents
Feb 7, 2013
3,629
2,306
219
BELMONTCA
What a JOKE. Pretty much every optic manufacturer offers a lifetime warranty, the reason you don't hear about Nightforce's customer service is because people don't need to use it.
Or maybe you don’t hear stuff because they charged me for a cracked tube and guys like me don’t bitch about it.

but that isn’t the same as when my gun dropped about 10’ on the bell at a field match and USO fixed it for free and even offered to send me a loaner for the next match, or when I over cranked rings on a Vortex... or when I fucked a Minox.. or when I let a student use a Bushnell and they just kept trying to get 32.4 mills out of the turret....

However, S&B charged me for erector springs and labor for sitting in a safe to long .. as did NF for a tube issue...

Hum, maybe it is not a joke..

BTW- I shoot a ZCO on my match gun now, but I am honest, fair and impartial as I have had most top tier scopes need warranty work over the years.

We are lucky to have companies like Vortex and lucky to be the benefactors of how with their warranty offerings, they’ve changed the landscape for us all, regardless of your scope choice.

Your statement is uneducated at best.
 
Last edited:

Diver160651

Who cares
Belligerents
Feb 7, 2013
3,629
2,306
219
BELMONTCA
Bullshit. Used NF warranty several times.

Also, they don’t cover incidental or accidental damage.

The reason you don’t hear about it is they don’t advertise it or replace optics for things that vortex covers. Also, vortex outsells every optic manufacturer on the market except possibly leupold hunting optics. They also sell cheaper scope lines where NF doesn’t sell optics in the 500-1500 price range for precision rifles.

More optics on the market = more warrant claims. Math is hard.

You’re an idiot (I don’t even run vortex currently).
Crap I replied as soon as I read the jackasses nonsense.

I should have just read your post and liked it/
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rekkr870

dyecocker1

Private
Minuteman
Jun 12, 2019
17
12
6
I think I got ya'll figured out now. You already have the huge "Vortex Nation" stickers posted on your big tough jacked up F150 rear windows and they are too much work to take off so its just easier defending a company that cannot put out a solid lineup. To the OP sorry I kinda took over your thread defending myself from personal attacks. I'm gonna step out. In case you are wondering I recommend the NF, it's worth every penny looks like I am not the only one. Good luck
 

5RWill

Optics Fiend
Belligerents
Oct 15, 2009
4,764
980
219
28
Mississippi
People disagreeing with you is a personal attack?

At this point you sound like a troll. Not trying to be an ass just letting you know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rekkr870

blbennett1288

de·plor·a·ble
Belligerents
Apr 24, 2017
1,444
793
119
Hoover, Alabama
I think I got ya'll figured out now. You already have the huge "Vortex Nation" stickers posted on your big tough jacked up F150 rear windows and they are too much work to take off so its just easier defending a company that cannot put out a solid lineup. To the OP sorry I kinda took over your thread defending myself from personal attacks. I'm gonna step out. In case you are wondering I recommend the NF, it's worth every penny looks like I am not the only one. Good luck
We have you figured out too...

31011075-612C-4C32-8B77-B3185BF4CC44.jpeg
 

Friday

Lethal weapon
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 28, 2018
214
97
34
Northern Nevada
Alright I think bringing a fallen American hero into online squabbling is a little disrespectful in my opinion guys cmon now.
 

sta24

Private
Banned !
Belligerents
Feb 24, 2014
30
4
12
ATACRs are worth the extra coin. Never had a problem with them, own 24 at the course I instruct for in the military that have been mounted and remounted countless times on rifles that have shot thousands of rounds, beaten up through stalks, etc. and never have had an issue. Recently myself and a fellow instructor who bought Vortex Razor HD Gen IIs a couple years back, brought them out to some training in central Texas. I was using a gas gun, him a bolt gun, and we lost our zero countless times. To frame what we were doing was driving around in jeeps off road and heading to different firing points to conduct OSOK drills. The set screw kept coming loose on the scopes, whether it was driving around or firing approximately 5 shots. It helped a LITTLE when I used blue loctite, meaning instead of 5 shots or a drive around, I had about 10. After 2 days of frustration and of extreme zero shifts (in excess of .5 mils) I mounted a work ATACR onto my gun, and for the next 3 days crushed, no zero issues. 2 scopes, the exact same, bought years apart, fresh out of the box, and both experienced the same issue. Needless to say, we will never buy from Vortex again.

If you're shooting PRS, when you show up to the range and can pull you gun out of a box and baby it to death, then yeah the Vortex may work for you. But if you want peace of mind, an ATACR is "fire and forget". But anything where you may take this scope (Vortex) into rugged terrain, then fuck and no. The only issue I have ever seen with the ATACR is "reticle jump" (on one scope) which isn't an issue anyways, and we sent it off to NF to fix, super easy customer service.
 

morganlamprecht

Sergeant
Belligerents
Nov 5, 2013
1,195
1,227
219
So u said all that to say you don’t know gen 2 set screws require more torque than typical scopes....got it

Gen 2 set screws don’t come loose unless you don’t torque them enough, u don’t need blue loctite either
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: Rob01 and jsimonh

sta24

Private
Banned !
Belligerents
Feb 24, 2014
30
4
12
So u said all that to say you don’t know gen 2 set screws require more torque than typical scopes....got it

Gen 2 set screws don’t come loose unless you don’t torque them enough, u don’t need blue loctite either
I said all that to give a well thought explanation rather than stating Vortex sucks. We tightened them to point where when you thought there was no room for travel you could audibly hear it hit its LoA as we continue to turn it. I got the loctite idea from other Vortex Razor users who've had the same issue that said it helped. Just a tad on the threats, nothing major. If you want to be a prick brother, that's fine. I've been doing this for awhile, probably longer than you professionally (and I'm not talking about "competitions") so no need for the insult about not knowing how to lock down set screws. You should not have to force maybe more than 5in/lbs in the case of other scopes. Nightforce for example is 4 in/lbs on the ATACR. Vortex recommends 10-12 in/lbs for the Razor. Further than that could either strip the screw, your tool, or even break the tip of the tool inside the screw (seen on an S&B) which then you have further complicated the problem.

Here's an entire thread on guys having the same problem: https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/vortex-razor-gen-ii-help.6828314/

Another: https://www.reddit.com/r/longrange/comments/6uq6xe
There's plenty of information out there stating this is a known issue.

You'll notice they all collectively say they routinely check their set screws before and after firing. Good practice but fairly ridiculous after 10 rounds or rucking around.

To the OP, make your choice based on your needs, if you're ballin' on a budget, get a Razor for cheaper, and maybe yours won't have issues. Maybe it will. Not all of them will have issues and if you do, now you know what to expect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Friday

Rob01

Super Mod/Team Blaster
Staff member
Jul 9, 2001
9,971
1,182
219
NC
www.teamblaster.net
On my Razors I take an allen wrench with the small end in and grab the big end and push it down until it bends a little. Never had one come loose. Never had a screw strip. You won't strip it. If it's coming loose after 5 shots then you didn't tighten it enough. Plain and simple. Guys have the problem because they baby it. Don't. Tighten it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: morganlamprecht

sta24

Private
Banned !
Belligerents
Feb 24, 2014
30
4
12
On my Razors I take an allen wrench with the small end in and grab the big end and push it down until it bends a little. Never had one come loose. Never had a screw strip. You won't strip it. If it's coming loose after 5 shots then you didn't tighten it enough. Plain and simple. Guys have the problem because they baby it. Don't. Tighten it.
It's the unstoppable force meets the immovable object conversation. You had you experience and I had mine. I'll quote myself here " We tightened them to point where when you thought there was no room for travel you could audibly hear it hit its LoA as we continue to turn it", to the point where the tool was bending. I think the concept of the Razor is great, that's why I bought it, the turrets, glass, etc. But there's an issue, and it's not isolated. And if yours works, great. I'm sure Vortex when they make the Gen III that this is something that will be resolved almost entirely. Hell, I bought mine in 2015 so maybe they had started fixing things after that (although the threat I linked was from 2017).

Anyways to the OP, whatever makes sense to you. I sold that Vortex Monday and plan on buying an ATACR or NX8 (once they install the TMR3). There's a reason why Vortex wasn't represented in the selection for the ASR scope.
 

morganlamprecht

Sergeant
Belligerents
Nov 5, 2013
1,195
1,227
219
What rob said...I’ve helped enough people who didn’t know better with the same issue...magically was fixed every time...done correctly, they hold...people do it wrong all the time because it requires more force than theyre used to on other scopes
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rob01

Rob01

Super Mod/Team Blaster
Staff member
Jul 9, 2001
9,971
1,182
219
NC
www.teamblaster.net
I have some of the first Razor II scopes to come off the line and some newer ones and never any issues. You quoted saying to the point you thought. When that isn't the point. Try what we are telling you and I bet that issue you are having goes away.
 

sta24

Private
Banned !
Belligerents
Feb 24, 2014
30
4
12
I have some of the first Razor II scopes to come off the line and some newer ones and never any issues. You quoted saying to the point you thought. When that isn't the point. Try what we are telling you and I bet that issue you are having goes away.
With a FatMax, I torqued the screws down to 12 in/lbs (10-12 recommended by Vortex) and then further tightened them after to around 14-15 before it felt like the screw was going to give. That's not babying. If I didn't care about selling the scope to fund my ATACR, I would have pushed it further, but it clearly wasn't holding it. Never had this issue before on Leupold, S&B, NightForce, Premier, etc.
 

gravfed

Private
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Nov 30, 2011
133
29
34
Houston, TX
Have both, like both, haven’t had issues with either. Look through them both and pick your favorite. Would be surprised if you’re not happy with either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5RWill and sta24

Geno C.

Dirty Carnie (ICLASA)
Belligerents
Oct 24, 2007
3,821
7,191
219
35
Wautoma, WI
I have all but the 7-35. I’m not afraid to put either on any gun I have. For PRS type comps I’d go with the one I could get the best deal on. I don’t baby my stuff and I put a fair number of rounds through them in not very good conditions all the time. One of my AMGs did have to go back to get the turrets replaced; elevation wouldn’t lock and the windage wouldn’t unlock. They turned it quick. Unless you’re wanting to lose some weight, I wouldn’t go amg over a gen2. The gen2 is brighter.

Cost no object, I’ll probably go 7-35 next, just because I don’t have one.

If you’re a regular guy like most of us, Gen2 will never hold you back and is definitely better bang for you buck.
 

sleeplz

Private
Belligerents
May 12, 2017
317
120
49
It's obvious to read through and see the guys with less experience speak the most nonsense. I just read a guy that stated he didn't torque his shit down enough and it came loose. 🤯

Than their are the guys that compare 800 pst's to 2700 atacrs. 🤔

Interesting thread indeed.
 

Nicholi2789

Precision nerd
Belligerents
Mar 27, 2017
39
10
12
Oregon
I have traded and used 5 different razor HD gen 2s on my match rifles and long range rifles.
Currently have one on my match rifle (6.5 creed) and my 223 trainer.
Both have been used and abused.
Thrown in the back of trucks, bounced around in ATVs driving between stages and hiking in field matches, slammed against barricades and subjected to rain, mud, snow, you name it. Never had a problem with functionality.
It is an absolute tank of a scope. And having used five different ones at various stages of abuse I am confident this is a common characteristic of the Gen 2 Razors.

There's a reason you can't go to a match without seeing several.

I will say the zero stop set screws WILL start to loosen if you don't tighten them good and snug. But it's a non issue for me. Never lost zero.
My current EBR2C Razor has over 3000 rounds on it just this season and a retarded amount of abuse. It's over 3 years old. Continues to track true.

All that being said, the Nightforce ATACR 7-35 is one of the other scopes you will see at EVERY match. It is a damn fine piece of glass and the one optic I'd consider switching to.
This is all subjective though because I haven't owned an ATACR but I have shot through them many times.
My Razors are great and fulfill my need more than adequately so I keep them.

You really can't go wrong with either. They are both great optics and both companies have stellar customer service.

All that being said, I love my Razors but I don't think Vortex makes another scope that is near to its level except perhaps the AMG.

The Razors are their masterpiece and bread and butter.
Comparing any other scopes in the Vortex line to the ATACR is not apples to apples. The PST gen 2 is under 1k and not designed to compete with the likes of the Razor and ATACR.
 
  • Like
Reactions: morganlamprecht

sta24

Private
Banned !
Belligerents
Feb 24, 2014
30
4
12
It's obvious to read through and see the guys with less experience speak the most nonsense. I just read a guy that stated he didn't torque his shit down enough and it came loose. 🤯

Than their are the guys that compare 800 pst's to 2700 atacrs. 🤔

Interesting thread indeed.
Bro you trollin'? You mean torqued it beyond what engineers at Vortex said to (which is 3x > than most scopes), and it still came loose on two 3-18x50 Razor HD Gen II's. Look at the guys giving push back, Rob is sponsored by Vortex, of course he can't say anything negative about the company. Whose answer was torque it til the tool bends. Yeah, that's how a product is supposed to work. Vortex does offer a good scope other than that issue, glass was on par with an ATACR no doubt, EBR2C reticle is trash (that's my fault for selecting it), if I bought it today it would be a TMR3 or EBR7C. I'm not demonizing the scope but the set screw/zero loss is an issue, and it's not every single Razor. I'm objective, I know it can't be all of their scopes. If your gun comes out of a padded box at a range and goes back in it at the end of the day then we're not talking about the same thing, which is what I was highlighting with my experience.
 

sleeplz

Private
Belligerents
May 12, 2017
317
120
49
@sta24 I've met many guys like you in gun shops that talk the most and have accomplished the least. Your the type that wont accept other people's responses and will discount others opinions for a number of reasons.

If something goes wrong, give the company a chance to fix it on their dime and quit bitching. Vortex and NF both do this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rekkr870

morganlamprecht

Sergeant
Belligerents
Nov 5, 2013
1,195
1,227
219
It’s always the professionals who assume their rifle demands are above and beyond anyone else...funny, I’ve met plenty “professionals”

He’s the only one who’s ever gone off road shooting lol

I’m just a vortex fan boy tho (hint: I don’t torque the set screws the same on this one because they’re different optics so the way this one works is irrelevant)
B3324C84-FF22-490B-989B-5763F15C4209.jpeg
 
Last edited:

Rob01

Super Mod/Team Blaster
Staff member
Jul 9, 2001
9,971
1,182
219
NC
www.teamblaster.net
Bro you trollin'? You mean torqued it beyond what engineers at Vortex said to (which is 3x > than most scopes), and it still came loose on two 3-18x50 Razor HD Gen II's. Look at the guys giving push back, Rob is sponsored by Vortex, of course he can't say anything negative about the company. Whose answer was torque it til the tool bends. Yeah, that's how a product is supposed to work. Vortex does offer a good scope other than that issue, glass was on par with an ATACR no doubt, EBR2C reticle is trash (that's my fault for selecting it), if I bought it today it would be a TMR3 or EBR7C. I'm not demonizing the scope but the set screw/zero loss is an issue, and it's not every single Razor. I'm objective, I know it can't be all of their scopes. If your gun comes out of a padded box at a range and goes back in it at the end of the day then we're not talking about the same thing, which is what I was highlighting with my experience.
Ah the sponsorship card. Always the last resort when nothing real to say. Just so we are clear, it has nothing to do with it. I am just trying to help you fix your issue. It is not a wide spread or even a small issue with the scope mechanically. It's an end user issue. As Morgan said once he helped people who had the issue they no longer had it. I have done the same. Whether you want to take my advice or not is one thing but don't try and make me look like a shill for any company. I do not sell my integrity and if you think I do you obviously don't know me. So do whatever you want but save that bullshit. Never compromised my integrity for any company ever and don't plan on it. I have been pretty straightforward and respectful in this conversation but if you want it to end then keep up with that.
 

sta24

Private
Banned !
Belligerents
Feb 24, 2014
30
4
12
@sta24 I've met many guys like you in gun shops that talk the most and have accomplished the least. Your the type that wont accept other people's responses and will discount others opinions for a number of reasons.

If something goes wrong, give the company a chance to fix it on their dime and quit bitching. Vortex and NF both do this.
10 years as a Scout Sniper and current instructor at a premier DOD sniper school, I am very satisfied with my accomplishments. I explained my disposition in detail with a scientific approach and I'm rejecting the hypothesis of two guys who apparently are the only guys capable of torquing down the set screws on a Vortex. Or is it likely that the screws were rattled loose from driving around for an/shooting on multiple occasions over the course of two days? Seems rational. I'd probably take Morgan or Rob a little more seriously if they presented something some other than saying to grip it and rip it on the torque specs. But hey, they must know better (even better than Vortex) because apparently everyone they show, it works for them, which was an extremely moot response Rob, and I'm disappointed in you. Again, this won't be the case for every scope, but mine had a problem, and I've been doing this long enough to recognize it was a problem, as was my buddy who has been at it for longer than I. It doesn't make Vortex a bad company, just like the awful design of the PM II Turrets doesn't make Schmidt & Bender a bad company. Everyone is going to have different opinions and experiences. There's a lot of skewed information in this thread people are taking as fact, like the the high number of Vortex's that appeared between 2015-17 from that PRB article. Cost is definitely a factor in this, and if it weren't, those stats would reflect much different. But that's what this whole debate has been about, you get what you pay for.
 

Geno C.

Dirty Carnie (ICLASA)
Belligerents
Oct 24, 2007
3,821
7,191
219
35
Wautoma, WI
10 years as a Scout Sniper and current instructor at a premier DOD sniper school, I am very satisfied with my accomplishments. I explained my disposition in detail with a scientific approach and I'm rejecting the hypothesis of two guys who apparently are the only guys capable of torquing down the set screws on a Vortex. Or is it likely that the screws were rattled loose from driving around for an/shooting on multiple occasions over the course of two days? Seems rational. I'd probably take Morgan or Rob a little more seriously if they presented something some other than saying to grip it and rip it on the torque specs. But hey, they must know better (even better than Vortex) because apparently everyone they show, it works for them, which was an extremely moot response Rob, and I'm disappointed in you. Again, this won't be the case for every scope, but mine had a problem, and I've been doing this long enough to recognize it was a problem, as was my buddy who has been at it for longer than I. It doesn't make Vortex a bad company, just like the awful design of the PM II Turrets doesn't make Schmidt & Bender a bad company. Everyone is going to have different opinions and experiences. There's a lot of skewed information in this thread people are taking as fact, like the the high number of Vortex's that appeared between 2015-17 from that PRB article. Cost is definitely a factor in this, and if it weren't, those stats would reflect much different. But that's what this whole debate has been about, you get what you pay for.
The only 2 guys capable of tightening the set screws?! Now you’re sounding pretty unintelligent. If you think bouncing around off road is harder on a scope than the recoil of a 375, 416, 50 or whatever other big bore, you’re dense. Plenty of guys in ELR running gen2s and have no problems holding zero. I still run 2. Never had a problem with any of the gen2s I’ve had with holding zero.
 

sta24

Private
Banned !
Belligerents
Feb 24, 2014
30
4
12
The only 2 guys capable of tightening the set screws?! Now you’re sounding pretty unintelligent.
It was facetious. And you called me dense? 👀

Again, a bunch of people have had this happen (I've posted links, and there's more out there), it doesn't mean the scope is broken, and I don't hate Vortex, but it's an issue. It was enough for me to sell the scope and get a scope that has never failed me. Which people feel the same way about NF. Be objective.
 

Geno C.

Dirty Carnie (ICLASA)
Belligerents
Oct 24, 2007
3,821
7,191
219
35
Wautoma, WI
Buddy is waiting on a 7-35 to come back from nightforce as we speak. Zero stop wouldn’t unlock. Not the first time I’ve heard of that happening either. That doesn’t make it a common problem. I’m as objective as they come when it comes to shooting gear. I’ll praise good work and call out bad stuff. The industry is big enough that if you don’t like something, move on, like you did. But trying to sell a guy on you have to have nightforce to be the ultimate reliable scope because yours and a couple other vortex wouldn’t hold zero because you can’t tighten a screw correctly isn’t sounding very objective
 

Geno C.

Dirty Carnie (ICLASA)
Belligerents
Oct 24, 2007
3,821
7,191
219
35
Wautoma, WI

You state no issues with the scope in your ad. Here you say it won’t hold zero. Which thread are you being honest in? The one where you’re trying to get money out of someone or the one where I a guy is asking how to spend his money?
 

Rob01

Super Mod/Team Blaster
Staff member
Jul 9, 2001
9,971
1,182
219
NC
www.teamblaster.net
10 years as a Scout Sniper and current instructor at a premier DOD sniper school, I am very satisfied with my accomplishments. I explained my disposition in detail with a scientific approach and I'm rejecting the hypothesis of two guys who apparently are the only guys capable of torquing down the set screws on a Vortex. Or is it likely that the screws were rattled loose from driving around for an/shooting on multiple occasions over the course of two days? Seems rational. I'd probably take Morgan or Rob a little more seriously if they presented something some other than saying to grip it and rip it on the torque specs. But hey, they must know better (even better than Vortex) because apparently everyone they show, it works for them, which was an extremely moot response Rob, and I'm disappointed in you. Again, this won't be the case for every scope, but mine had a problem, and I've been doing this long enough to recognize it was a problem, as was my buddy who has been at it for longer than I. It doesn't make Vortex a bad company, just like the awful design of the PM II Turrets doesn't make Schmidt & Bender a bad company. Everyone is going to have different opinions and experiences. There's a lot of skewed information in this thread people are taking as fact, like the the high number of Vortex's that appeared between 2015-17 from that PRB article. Cost is definitely a factor in this, and if it weren't, those stats would reflect much different. But that's what this whole debate has been about, you get what you pay for.
Well maybe we can reject your hypothesis that you and your buddy are the only two who can't tighten them down enough? My buddy who was also a USMC Scout Sniper has no problem tightening his screws and having them stay tight so has nothing to do with the job you have or had. Yes others have had this happen as well as they were not used to the Razor II system but when educated they never had another problem.

Disappointed? Oh well sorry to let you down. LOL And yes we do know as we have used them for a long time and it's amazing everyone we help with it no longer has the problem. Maybe your scope did have a mechanical issue. I don;t know as I didn't see it but you should have contacted Vortex and sent it back for a check up. They would have diagnosed a problem if there was one.

And of course cost was a factor. You give people a scope that does everything a scope $1000 more expensive will do then people will vote with their money most of the time as it's hard earned. The Razor II has shown itself to be a very reliable scope for what the OP wants and needs.

Well this has been beat to death so I am pretty much done with it. I have said my part and given my experiences. People can take it for what they want but again do not ever question my integrity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5RWill and Geno C.

sta24

Private
Banned !
Belligerents
Feb 24, 2014
30
4
12
Buddy is waiting on a 7-35 to come back from nightforce as we speak. Zero stop wouldn’t unlock. Not the first time I’ve heard of that happening either. That doesn’t make it a common problem. I’m as objective as they come when it comes to shooting gear. I’ll praise good work and call out bad stuff. The industry is big enough that if you don’t like something, move on, like you did. But trying to sell a guy on you have to have nightforce to be the ultimate reliable scope because yours and a couple other vortex wouldn’t hold zero because you can’t tighten a screw correctly isn’t sounding very objective
Brother, agreed with all. We're now on the same page, minus the last sentence. I did what Vortex recommended and beyond.

As far as selling the scope $300 under it's worth, it did exactly what I said it did; tracks, clean glass, no blemishes, etc. With care to the set screws (constantly checking them) the scope does what it's supposed to do, but for what I do, that's not what I wanted to deal with.