Harmonic tuner on large bore rifles anyone?

Cutter719

New Hide Member
Dec 8, 2018
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#1
I was doing some reading on the science of barrel flex when a round is fired. Also, some small bore bolt and semi auto competitors use a mid barrel and/or counter weighted “tuner” to keen barrel rigid and increased accuracy. Has anyone have experience using for long range? Have Tikka 6.5 creedmoor on Manners stock.

Thank you very much
Craig Russell -retired puddle pirate
Newb to long range shooting
 

milanuk

F'ing nuke
Mar 23, 2002
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Wenatchee WA
#2
I've used a threaded tuner from Erik Cortina to pretty good effect on a couple barrels, and I've played around with the LimbSavr Deresonator - it looks silly, but the results were repeatable... a friend (and very good shooter) uses a simplified version that amounts to stacking O-rings about 4-6" back from the muzzle. Keep stacking til you see the groups start shrinking, and stop when they start opening up. Not quite as much ability to 'fine tune' things as with a threaded tuner, but no permanent modifications required.

This was strictly F-class, not sure I've ever seen anyone really use anything of the sort in field/practical shooting. No reason you *couldn't* experiment with the O-ring trick if you wanted to, though.
 

Cutter719

New Hide Member
Dec 8, 2018
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#3
Than
I've used a threaded tuner from Erik Cortina to pretty good effect on a couple barrels, and I've played around with the LimbSavr Deresonator - it looks silly, but the results were repeatable... a friend (and very good shooter) uses a simplified version that amounts to stacking O-rings about 4-6" back from the muzzle. Keep stacking til you see the groups start shrinking, and stop when they start opening up. Not quite as much ability to 'fine tune' things as with a threaded tuner, but no permanent modifications required.

This was strictly F-class, not sure I've ever seen anyone really use anything of the sort in field/practical shooting. No reason you *couldn't* experiment with the O-ring trick if you wanted to, though.
Thank you, I will try that out this weekend !!!
 

Anderson_A

Professional clam jammer
Apr 26, 2018
70
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18
New York unfortunately
#4
I’ve just purchased another apa little bastard break to experiment with after hearing David tubb mention self timing muzzle breaks as a tuner on the everyday sniper podcast to paraphrase my interpretation “if you have a self timing muzzle brake turn it out one turn at a time while checking groups and you will see a difference” I also know from a few YouTube videos this has been done and there are a few muzzle devices on the market that are designed for this purpose with a scale for timing them
 

milanuk

F'ing nuke
Mar 23, 2002
1,599
93
48
45
Wenatchee WA
#6
@Anderson_A interesting concept... but going full revs seems awfully coarse compared to how regular tuners work, where there are 24-25 marks *around* the circumference. Typically you can see the tune come and go within one revolution (depending on the mass involved), and repeat every rev or so at the same point. Not sure how you'd manage to hit that going full turns, which you'd kinda have to in order to maintain the port orientation. Maybe the relatively large side ports change the way it responds to tuning somehow?
 

Culpeper

One divided by F
Nov 25, 2006
2,510
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Roswell NM
#7
There has got to be a better way. Barrels should come with what frequency it is naturally tuned at. Once we have the musical note or frequency or to be more specific that will create an optimum point at which a harmonic function has the value zero. From there it is just a matter of looking up a reloading manual that will have a table with several columns indicating optimum load values (nodes) in addition to the old tried and trued powder range for a particular bullet. Sort of like audiophiles create a frequency response graph to determine which components worked best to get that nice flat holy grail loudspeaker sound. But the price of barrels will go up to fund the R&D because the table can only be based on a baseline actioned barrel. With that in mind actions can be manufactured, measured and classified as well to best match a barrel. I'm being a dick but a dick showing there is science behind all these prehistoric methods being used. Work smarter not harder. Find your flat spots quickly. Pick a MV you like in that range and quickly find the optimum seating depth and moveon.org. life is so much more serene when you can say with confidence I fucked up that shot big time. Easier softer ways avail us something until one can properly prove otherwise.
 
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Anderson_A

Professional clam jammer
Apr 26, 2018
70
50
18
New York unfortunately
#8
@milanuk I see what you mean about being a very coarse adjustment compared to actual tuners I went with the apa because it is symmetrical far as I can tell meaning I can lock I down and test every 180 degrees witch is still very coarse but If the man David Tubb says it’s worth a shot I’m willing to try it out hopefully I will get lucky and one of those will be a harmonic node
 
Nov 6, 2013
496
206
43
Southern, IN
#13
Couple of points:
- Rimfire was one of the original applications for barrel tuners because with rimfire ammo you did not have the ability to tune the load to the rifle (other than trying a lot of different factory loads). Since you could not really tune the ammo to the rifle by handloading, they basically were tuning the rifle/barrel to the ammo. If you are shooting centerfire, you can obviously tune the load to the rifle, so there is not as much of a need, or benefit, for a tuner. For Rimfire applications, a barrel tuner can make a lot of sense.

- Lightweight barrel profiles was the other original application for barrel tuners. Lighter profile barrels are obviously much more susceptible to whipping, so using a device to limit/control that can be very beneficial. For heavy weight barrel profiles, it is obviously not near as much as an issue.

If you are talking rimfire, or lightweight barrels, then a barrel tuner might be a legitimate game changer. IMHO, outside of those 2 applications, you are heading down a rabbit hole that is really going to lead you no where. Today's high quality heavy profile barrels, with quality handloaded ammo matched to the barrel, are capable of producing very high degrees of accuracy without the need for any type of barrel tuner.
 

Seymour Fish

New Hide Member
Oct 30, 2018
26
7
3
#20
There has got to be a better way. Barrels should come with what frequency it is naturally tuned at. Once we have the musical note or frequency or to be more specific that will create an optimum point at which a harmonic function has the value zero. From there it is just a matter of looking up a reloading manual that will have a table with several columns indicating optimum load values (nodes) in addition to the old tried and trued powder range for a particular bullet. Sort of like audiophiles create a frequency response graph to determine which components worked best to get that nice flat holy grail loudspeaker sound. But the price of barrels will go up to fund the R&D because the table can only be based on a baseline actioned barrel. With that in mind actions can be manufactured, measured and classified as well to best match a barrel. I'm being a dick but a dick showing there is science behind all these prehistoric methods being used. Work smarter not harder. Find your flat spots quickly. Pick a MV you like in that range and quickly find the optimum seating depth and moveon.org. life is so much more serene when you can say with confidence I fucked up that shot big time. Easier softer ways avail us something until one can properly prove otherwise.
Already can do this to some extent using Chris Long theory of optimum bbl time, and some reverse engineering using quickload. Then fine tune to get desired positive compensation at preferred distance
 

Seymour Fish

New Hide Member
Oct 30, 2018
26
7
3
#21
Couple of points:
- Rimfire was one of the original applications for barrel tuners because with rimfire ammo you did not have the ability to tune the load to the rifle (other than trying a lot of different factory loads). Since you could not really tune the ammo to the rifle by handloading, they basically were tuning the rifle/barrel to the ammo. If you are shooting centerfire, you can obviously tune the load to the rifle, so there is not as much of a need, or benefit, for a tuner. For Rimfire applications, a barrel tuner can make a lot of sense.

- Lightweight barrel profiles was the other original application for barrel tuners. Lighter profile barrels are obviously much more susceptible to whipping, so using a device to limit/control that can be very beneficial. For heavy weight barrel profiles, it is obviously not near as much as an issue.

If you are talking rimfire, or lightweight barrels, then a barrel tuner might be a legitimate game changer. IMHO, outside of those 2 applications, you are heading down a rabbit hole that is really going to lead you no where. Today's high quality heavy profile barrels, with quality handloaded ammo matched to the barrel, are capable of producing very high degrees of accuracy without the need for any type of barrel tuner.
LR, you are 99% correct. However, depending on the width of your node, it might be that some delta Temp could take you out of the node in the course of a days shooting. Here a tuner might allow you to stay tight. Consider that the current crop of CF tuners do not shift POI, but easily change the shape of your group. Could be useful if predominant crosswind or predominant switchy Head/tail wind.
 

Seymour Fish

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Oct 30, 2018
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Anderson_A

Professional clam jammer
Apr 26, 2018
70
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New York unfortunately
#23
Hopefully this will change shortly but I’m shooting exclusively factory ammo at this point I’ll take any advantage I can get if this helps me tune the ammo to my barrels seems like little risk $100-$200 for a possible gain in accuracy. I would be hard pressed to get any appreciable gain in precision for that price elsewhere in this game
 
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