Fluting madness.

phlegethon

Gunny Sergeant
Hessian
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Minuteman
Nov 4, 2018
784
595
99
Holy shit. Hoooooly shit.

I happen to have a SW Simulation Professional seat if you want to get some before/after stiffness comparisons to go along with that.
Yeah, I've been wondering too what the effect of these intricate designs must be on harmonics and accuracy.
 

LongRifles Inc.

Lance Criminal
Commercial Supporter
Belligerents
Mar 14, 2010
5,417
2,667
219
48
Sturgis, S. Dakota
www.longriflesinc.com
Yeah, I've been wondering too what the effect of these intricate designs must be on harmonics and accuracy.
Accuracy? None far as we can tell. You may have to alter a given load a smidge to find the node again, but the fundamental potential of the barrel doesn't seem to change on a properly normalized piece of steel.

Harmonics? Don't know, don't care. That is what a loading bench is for. To be totally honest, I don't even know wtf harmonics even means. -A music instrument that instantly makes you Neal Young? :)

In all seriousness. This term gets thrown around a ridiculous amount. The truth is very few have the means to truly evaluate it and the moment you change anything, it all becomes meaningless anyway. Throw a can on it, there will be a change. Let the can go for XXXXX number of rounds where it collects a bunch of fungus and carbon, it changes again. This is a constantly evolving reality. If the barrel copper fouls, that is added mass as well and low and behold, the frequency, amplitude, and harmonic will all be affected. It'll be small, but it will change.

Ever shoot a gun that hammers like the dickens and suddenly the can backs off and you're lucky to hold a minute of stop sign? Guess, what? THAT is a change in harmonics.

It's no different than hanging a ruler off a bench with a screw and tapping on it with your finger. Then, tape a penny and do it again. Follow up with pubic hair. It is the same exact kind of behavior. A big "trick" with ammo is making that thing "bounce" the same amount every time you shoot it. The old school adjustable barrel tuners managed this behavior by moving that mass inward/outward in the effort to "time" the projectile exiting with the crown to a point where the barrel has stopped moving as it begins to travel in the opposite direction.

C.
 
Last edited:

Tcoddington

Private
Belligerents
Jul 18, 2017
171
163
49
I can not believe how much weight that saved. I hope you show another video after a build with it is completed.
 

LongRifles Inc.

Lance Criminal
Commercial Supporter
Belligerents
Mar 14, 2010
5,417
2,667
219
48
Sturgis, S. Dakota
www.longriflesinc.com
I can not believe how much weight that saved. I hope you show another video after a build with it is completed.

We will. I have this silly thing on our FB page as well and it's throttled into a reasonably big topic of discussion. I'll be on a milk carton if we don't show the final assembly.
 

Mordamer

Professional Know It All
Belligerents
May 11, 2010
1,090
582
219
Hooker, OK
You could have saved that much weight a lot quicker by just cutting the barrel down to 12 inches. Haha.
 

jpndave

Private
Belligerents
Jun 7, 2009
19
3
6
51
Those honeycombs might actually dampen "harmonics", they natively can do that. Super cool job BTW. I would totally use one on the chassis I'm building - way before carbon.
 

Anb618

Rear Admiral
Hessian
Belligerents
Dec 18, 2017
408
520
99
Looks awesome, but I can tell it would drive me nuts trying to keep those honeycomb pits clear of debris/dirt on any rifle that gets more use than back and forth from the bench. 😂
 

loveha

SGT's OFP
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jul 31, 2018
600
515
99
NW Lower Michigan
Still love the pattern you call pattern X, but looks like chain. That price tag puts a stopper on it for me. Have a Shilen on the way for a Savage. Was thinking of wrought iron, but maybe honeycomb now? I don't know. Have about another month till I should get the barrel. Have more time to sleep on it.
 

kthomas

Sergeant
Belligerents
Jun 17, 2009
2,543
2,630
219
32
Tucson, AZ
That is awesome!!

All of a sudden turning my dusty Defiance barreled action with a MTU barrel on it into a hunting rifle is seeming a lot more realistic...

If I chop that barrel down to 18" and put this fluting on it, I imagine I can really drop some weight.

What is the price of getting a barrel fluted with this pattern?
 

Supersubes

Snafu
Belligerents
Sep 6, 2006
4,331
2,727
219
Rural Nevada
We will. I have this silly thing on our FB page as well and it's throttled into a reasonably big topic of discussion. I'll be on a milk carton if we don't show the final assembly.
Is it me or are the pockets elongated on this compared to the original barrel you showed?

Is there a set amount of material you’re leaving between the bottom of the pocket and the bore? Ever done a shallow version to a #2 or #3 contour?
 
Last edited:

GH41

Sergeant
Belligerents
Mar 18, 2014
575
65
34
Hope you upped your standard price to paint that barrel! Was probably even more fun to blast it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Geno C.

Gregor.Samsa

Online Training Member
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Minuteman
May 4, 2019
120
30
34
NorCal
That's badass. I don't know how you could do it efficiently but it would be cool to mask the raised surfaces and coat the fluted recesses in a darker color for even more effect or hiding the inevitable accumulation of dust and dirt. Would totally double down on the already amazing effect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Snuby642

phlegethon

Gunny Sergeant
Hessian
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Minuteman
Nov 4, 2018
784
595
99
That's badass. I don't know how you could do it efficiently but it would be cool to mask the raised surfaces and coat the fluted recesses in a darker color for even more effect or hiding the inevitable accumulation of dust and dirt. Would totally double down on the already amazing effect.
You would have to have some kind of mask material that could be sprayed on, selectively milled off, and then washed away, sort of like semiconductor manufacturing. It wouldn't be possible with tape because it's too intricate.
 

Notevenonpaper

Private
Minuteman
Nov 30, 2019
25
14
6
Liquid mask? I have used it for masking airbrush projects. No idea how it would hold up with cerakote. It's basically a brush on frisket material. Much easier to apply to irregular surfaces than tape.
 

wade2big

Knowing just enough to be dangerous
Belligerents
Sep 16, 2017
3,268
2,890
119
TEXAS
That's badass. I don't know how you could do it efficiently but it would be cool to mask the raised surfaces and coat the fluted recesses in a darker color for even more effect or hiding the inevitable accumulation of dust and dirt. Would totally double down on the already amazing effect.
A water hose would wash the barrel right off. Let dry and spray a little rem lube. Done.
 

Mr.Kirk

Staff Sergeant
Belligerents
Nov 8, 2008
1,350
3,599
219
Texas
Waterjet cut high temp rubber sheet to fit into the honeycomb shape. Install after first coat is staged, then add second color. First victim pays for plugs.
 

Supersubes

Snafu
Belligerents
Sep 6, 2006
4,331
2,727
219
Rural Nevada
For what? So it will cause light strikes and possibly break? It would be easier and cheaper to take out the firing pin of your rifle if you are trying to disable it.
I can think of several manufacturers and aftermarket pin makers who already flute pins.
 

LongRifles Inc.

Lance Criminal
Commercial Supporter
Belligerents
Mar 14, 2010
5,417
2,667
219
48
Sturgis, S. Dakota
www.longriflesinc.com
Fluting pins 101. -Least, my take on fluted pins anyway.

ITS A GIMMICK.

1. A certain amount of kinetic energy is required to crush a primer cup into its anvil and "squish" the priming compound to initiate ignition within the primer. Less than what is required may result in it going off, but it will not be as hot/intense as one that's had the shit smacked out of it. This has been witnessed by me on more than one occasion with the US Palma Team and XXX number of ACC Highpower shooters.

2. Lock time: In the 1900s the Creedmoor matches in upstate NY were all the rage. It was the equivalent of the Super Bowl back then. The sporterized 1903 Springfield as a force to reckon with. The lock time on those are measured with an hourglass when compared to anything fancy or cool. In spite of this, if you look at the V count and the overall shot plots, they are not all that dissimilar from what we see today. When you compare then/now, today's elevation is a bit better and the overall group size is smaller, but the guns still shot very well. So, I offer this for consideration:

  • Better projectiles
  • Better optics
  • Better powders
  • Better brass preparation
  • Better barrels
  • A much better understanding of what an accurate rifle requires
  • Much, Much, MUCH better machining resources
  • Much X10 better methods of monitoring conditions through spotting scopes and weather stations. Those guys had flags and little else.

Now, pile all that together and bounce it off of the performance gain derived from lock time. Think about it... Now think about it from prone or supported positions. If you can't hold with a pile of tactical pillows supporting your position or while sprawled out on the ground. . .I'll stop there before I really offend someone. :)

3. When you go putting the "Jenny Craig" to a striker pin you lighten it with the hopes of being able to accelerate it faster so that it takes less time to reach the primer and produce the spark to get the fires lit and send the bullet on its way. When you reduce mass, it does take less effort to accelerate it and it will cover the distance in less time. However when you lighten it, now you must increase that speed by a considerable amount in order to get the kinetic "wack" required to produce the same impact energy you had prior to the "diet". You're now relying on the spring material and an extension type coil spring will only go so far. You can increase the wire diameter to produce more lbs/foot energy, but guess what? The spring is now heavier and it has to move just like the striker pin does. That's putting a hammer to your own dick. You just went round-robin and got nowhere.

Another option is bumping up to a high energy spring material like silicon/chromium steel. That's expensive and it still won't get you there.

The last option is a Bellville washer. They are extremely high energy, but the price there is they don't compress worth a shit. You'll be adding a good 2" to your bolt handle to make it livable and with everyone flipped out these days about bolt rotation effort and whatnot, it's a sure way to get exactly where you don't want to be.

The better solution: Don't fuck with anything! The stuff is doing its job as is I promise you. The titanium/aluminum pins made by whoever. They are junk. I've replaced more than I've ever installed for people that learned the hard way.

If you have money to burn, spend it on gas and bullets. You'll be a much better shooter in the end and you'll keep a few more hairs on your head I promise. Unless you're on the early am relays at Perry (High Master Card type folk) or standing on the block at a World Cup, Pan Am game, or the Olympics, ERASE the word lock time from your vocabulary. Seriously. The only time it really gets to be an issue is in the offhand when your hunting for X's and pencil eraser sized groups.

Vertical stringing in shot plots can suck ass to try and sort out. That's exactly what light strikes cause.

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:

wade2big

Knowing just enough to be dangerous
Belligerents
Sep 16, 2017
3,268
2,890
119
TEXAS
I didn't actually see it but I'm guessing there was a "no" in there somewhere.
It was a big ole’ HELL NO. 😂
Even if fluting the pin made any sense, fluting an intricate pattern wouldn’t even in that context.
 
Last edited: