DO i really need a Kestrel?

dzander

Grandpa Dave
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Jan 21, 2018
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New to this Long range shooting.
Trying to understand all this weather related stuff, ballistics, etc.
Mr Lowlight is talking about Weaponized math.
Does a new shooter really need a Kestrel besides?
Thanks
 

morganlamprecht

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"need" not so much

convenient, very much so

you can get similar results with phone apps/local weather stations if thats your liking
 

JLP.Payette

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New to this Long range shooting.
Trying to understand all this weather related stuff, ballistics, etc.
Mr Lowlight is talking about Weaponized math.
Does a new shooter really need a Kestrel besides?
Thanks
You don't need a Kestrel but they are nice to have. I prefer using a Kestrel over using an app, and the data is very solid. There are plenty of shooters that get by without a Kestrel.
 

Toddmonty

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A new shooter needs to shoot, get to where you have DOPE out to 1000 yards.

Then shoot from different wind & light conditions.

You’ll figure out what you need. A good range finder & good support bipod/bag..you’re set.
 
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TxWelder35

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I thought I was going to need one. Learned the wind changes too much between me and the target for a kestrel to help. Better off leaning to read the wind instead. IMO of course.
 
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Steel head

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If you want ballistic solver you can use when it’s really nasty out they’re nice.
I’ve been at this for over 10 years now and I still don’t have one but am considering it if I find a good deal.
 

A&8's

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Need? No
Nice? Yes
IMO, spend the $3-500 on ammo and gather hard data.
 

dzander

Grandpa Dave
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So if I could Shoot from 100 yards out to 1000 yards in 100 yard increments, and record how many mills elevation i needed on my scope to be on at those yardages, then record the weather condition at that time. I would have Dope right?

Then I have to adjust for the weather conditions ,ie. Temperature, treasure, humidity etc the next time i would shoot those same ranges. The Kestal would give me the corrections for those new conditions in a nut shell type of question??

Talking Strictly talking elevation here , not wind .

Assuming I get that dope in near still wind conditions.

Am I thinking correctly basically?

I know I have to go to some classes that would really explain all this but for now just asking.

Sorry for the dumb questions just trying to understand this better.
 

morganlamprecht

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yes basically...with the kestrel ballistic models...youd shoot/confirm your data and get it match real world data one time

each time out, the kestrel will correct your dope for the environmental changes, if needed

without a kestrel, youd capture the same data from a local weather station and input it into your ballistic app of choice...some/most apps, have the ability to update/capture this data and import it as long as you have service
 

TxWelder35

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So if I could Shoot from 100 yards out to 1000 yards in 100 yard increments, and record how many mills elevation i needed on my scope to be on at those yardages, then record the weather condition at that time. I would have Dope right?

Then I have to adjust for the weather conditions ,ie. Temperature, treasure, humidity etc the next time i would shoot those same ranges. The Kestal would give me the corrections for those new conditions in a nut shell type of question??

Talking Strictly talking elevation here , not wind .

Assuming I get that dope in near still wind conditions.

Am I thinking correctly basically?

I know I have to go to some classes that would really explain all this but for now just asking.

Sorry for the dumb questions just trying to understand this better.
I shoot out to 800 regularly and haven’t noticed any real change in Dope in different weather. Maybe .1 +\-

I am shooting at the same location every time though.
 
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morganlamprecht

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I shoot out to 800 regularly and haven’t noticed any real change in Dope in different weather. Maybe .1 +\-

I am shooting at the same location every time though.
i always tell people, it takes a lot more change than most realize

where im at in south tx, our yearly spread is usually -1500 DA in winter to 2500 DA in summer...each 2000 DA change accounts for ~.1 mil @ 600 yds, and .2-.3 mils @ 1k yds will most calibers i shoot

its comes in really handy when going to the mountains in CO/NM tho, just pull it out and go
 

Steel head

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My 260 at two different spots and seasons

this weekend in eastern Oregon
1100ish elevation
40f 900DA
800 5.7
1125 10.1
1775 25.2

late summer in the mountains
2300 elevation
70f 3800 DA

800 5.4
1125 9.5
1775 22.6
 

Steel head

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Does Kestral give you what the density altitude is ?

Whats the formula for Density altitude?

How does one know what this is?
yes.

I get DA with a kestrel drop and a phone app.
When I’m at home the Drop keeps tabs on my precious cigars in the humidor.
 

Dthomas3523

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Does Kestral give you what the density altitude is ?

Whats the formula for Density altitude?

How does one know what this is?
Kestrel will show DA in weather mode.

If you’re running AB, they use all the individual weather inputs for calculations as they feel it’s more accurate.

But you can see DA if you want to.
 

davsco

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someone at a match will always share the current environmentals with you (wind, density altitude, etc). if you have a ballistics program on your phone (i use 'shooter,' cost me $10) you can just plug that in and get your (theoretical) drops and windage holds.

or you can spend a little and just buy the basic kestrel without ballistics and do like above. that's what i did. mine is bluetooth so i have it send the DA to the Shooter program on my phone.

or you can spend more and get the ballistics-integrated kestrel so no phone/program needed.
 

DaveM

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A Kestrel is not necessary, but they are nice to have.

I shot matches for two years with my phone and BalliticAE. It was a little cumbersome and my phone battery didn’t always want to last the whole day. I never really had full confidence in the dope it produced.

I bought a Kestrel 5700. Elite because I had a credit with a vendor. I wish I had done it sooner. It’s easier to use during a match, the battery lasts, and most importantly I feel the AB Elite software and custom drag models are much more accurate than anything in a phone app. Paired with a LRF, it’s even better.

My friends were amazed when I used it for a new Rimfire setup. First round hits at 200yds on a 5” plate. Giggles all around.
 

Jefe's Dope

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Strelok Pro and a Wind meter. A WeatherFlow will bluetooth to the Strelok app. If you're trying to save money. Otherwise get the Kestral. It won't seem like much while you're using it. But you're blind without it.

Need? No. Want? Why wouldn't you?

or you can buy more ammo and walk in all your shots. :geek:
 

dzander

Grandpa Dave
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Jan 21, 2018
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Graysville,Ohio
ok
Thanks all.
If I'm shooting 1 to 2 different places in the same state wishin 1000 feet of elevation of each other it sounds like the adjustments would be fairly minimal. As a new shooter i'll probably have more issue with wind than Elevation as long as I get all my come ups using actual dialed in adjustments. Still would be fun to have and experiment with.
I just hate buying electronics, the day you buy them there is always something better out.
Appreciate all your inputs.
 

morganlamprecht

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There is a surprising number of people (both with/without a kestrel) who don’t understand any of the math and factors that go into a ballistic solution

lots of shooters who get rounds on target by lots of trial and error then just try to replicate that the next time out

I’d start off by getting an understanding of what’s actually going on in the solution, whether that’s from a kestrel or an app, and it will make the calculations, adjustments, and what’s happening down range a lot easier to get a handle on as you progress
 

Steel head

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ok
Thanks all.
If I'm shooting 1 to 2 different places in the same state wishin 1000 feet of elevation of each other it sounds like the adjustments would be fairly minimal. As a new shooter i'll probably have more issue with wind than Elevation as long as I get all my come ups using actual dialed in adjustments. Still would be fun to have and experiment with.
I just hate buying electronics, the day you buy them there is always something better out.
Appreciate all your inputs.
Well the apps and kestrel have been around for a long time and are still relevant unlike most of the electronics like computers.

my advice, start taking notes or a log now and look into the free apps for now.
 

pewpewfever

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Are you competing?

When I started competing I used geoballistics and it downloads the weather app from a nearby weather station, or you can sync with a weather flow or enter the data manually.

Then I went with a weather flow instead of kestrel on advice from the local club. They said get the weather flow for now and upgrade to a kestrel when I feel like the weather flow is holding me back. I found the length of time it takes for the weather flow to sync with my phone and take a reading to be kind of frustrating.

For now, I’m going with analog instruments like these.




Not dependent on batteries, no delay in taking readings, and I think being able watch the wind speed fluctuate in real time is helping my wind reading skills. We’ll see.

I still want a kestrel so I can be one of the cool kids.
 

pewpewfever

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BTW, Leopold is offering a rebate right now for a free kestrel 5700 if you buy a mark 5HD.

83F4B4AD-32A4-474F-9E98-4741A5C9DE49.png
 

dzander

Grandpa Dave
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Jan 21, 2018
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I'm not competing yet. I will likely shoot just local long range matches and try to learn the sport / wind. If I really get into it maybe I will do more. Hitting steel at long range intrigues me.
Just bought a Kahles 6-24 mill with SMR3 reticle off a guy on here or I'd consider the Leupold Mark 5 and get the Kestrel.
I have two 6.5 creedmoor rifles, a Savage with a heavy barrel and a brake but the stock sucks.
Also won a Ruger American with a brake at a NRA banquet. I have reloading stuff for the 6.5cm and load now for my savage.
I mounted the Kahles on the Ruger just try it out. Just did a tall target test on the scope for tracking and it looked good going up 10 mills on elevation and 2 mills left right on windage, came right back to zero, tracking looked spot on.
I have a old Remington 22-250 with a Hart ss heavy barrel and a Shilen trigger. The action was trued up by a Benchrest smith when I had the Barrel installed. This is from the 90's. I bedded it in a cheap plastic molded stock and i was able to shoot 1/4"-1/2" 5 shot groups with it at 100 yards with 55g ballistic tip reloads . So I think the action is pretty decent Its been sitting since the late 90's. I took the action to a local Smith the guys around here use and he's fitting a Kreiger 6.5 cm x 24" barrel to it and adding a Picitany 20 moa rail scope mount to it. I have ARC rings for the scope.
It won't be done till end of February. I'm trying to decide on a chassis/stock to put the barreled action into. The Guys around here use Mccrees G10 chassis but guys on here said Mccrees tried to sue people over the level in there stock or whatever and don't use them, don't support the sport etc. Figured I'd see what's new after the 2020 Shot show for a stock/chassis.
 

pewpewfever

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Mea culpa I said I used geo ballistics above when I meant BallisticsARC. It’s the only ballistics app I’ve used so far, except chairgun, which is for air rifles.