6GT Project/Range Report

reubenski

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I was MD'ing today so I didn't get a chance to shoot much. I loaded 20rds of 105 RDF Blems and used 4166 from a 1LB tester can I had sitting around. Figured for getting rounds down the barrel id rather burn that stuff than 4350. I loaded it with 33.5gr and CCI400's. The large firing pin in the AI pierced about 40% of the primers. No signs of pressure other than the primers. Those that didn't Pierce flowed pretty heavy back into the pin hole. They chronod at 2900. Accy sucked.

The good news is that I shot 5 rds of 37gr 4350 under Hybrids CCI 400's and 5rds of the same with 450's. They chronod at 2900. No piercing. I shot a ladder of 37.5, 38, 38.5, 39, and 39.5 with 400's. I pierced a primer with 39gr at 3050 and stopped. Didn't shoot 39.5. accuracy was good with all three 4/5rd groups. From .2 to .35'ish.

I'll narrow down on 37.5 - 39 with 4350 and Hybrids. And I'll knock it off with the CCI400's. Won't be able to do much more until I get my bolt bushed. Funny part is, I don't have any problems with 6 Creed SRP Alpha brass. Not even flow.
 

verdugo60

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@reubenski, thanks for sharing your data. What match? I think Chad at LRI bushed my AI bolt a few years ago, no problems since then, he did good.

This post got me pumped, was already planning to try 105 hybrids with H4350. My brass and dies will be here this weekend, barrel next week hopefully. If I can get out before Christmas I'll post my info with the bushed bolt, I have mostly CCI 400's for SRP's.
 

reubenski

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I can tell you how that'll turn out now 🤣
Pls do. I've used Lapua and Alpha pretty much exclusively for the past 5 or so years. Within the last year or so I used Hornady brass for a 6.5 Grendel and it regularly shot in the .2's and .3's. Do you think Hornady is going to be noticably less accurate from the get go? Or you just mean it isn't going to last as long?

Incidentally, my Amp analyzed Alpha and Hornady as having the same Aztec code. Not what I expected but now I'm curious.
 

LawnMM

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IMO Hornady brass sucks. It's soft and there's quite a few anecdotal threads to that effect on the Hide.

Seems to do better in bolt guns than auto loaders but I'm personally not a fan.

I'd be shocked if Alpha didn't do better.
 

Kadams1563

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Keep Hornady at low pressures and you will have no problems is what the consensus seems to be. With that being said I ran Hornady in 6.5 creed until Lapua was released. Hornady had soft primer pockets and the primers were falling out at 3 firings. I guess I was pushing it too hard though so it was my fault it sucked.

I will be loading Alpha in the GT and H4350 gonna go for low node for break in and then ramp it up to 3000FPS with a 108,
 

LawnMM

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Yeah, it's the consumers fault the brass sucks 🙄

I've run Lapua hard too, the worst most pressure pounded and violated cases never dropped a primer
 
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reubenski

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Oh, okay. Primer pockets... Yep. Tracking for a while now.

But, I can't explain it. Something inside me wants to throw powder in Hornady brass using Hornady dies in an automated 650. Like near factory level ammo. And just pump it out.
 

reubenski

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IMO Hornady brass sucks. It's soft and there's quite a few anecdotal threads to that effect on the Hide.

Seems to do better in bolt guns than auto loaders but I'm personally not a fan.

I'd be shocked if Alpha didn't do better.
These results might surprise you; they did me.

I shot a 5rd ladder of Hornady brass, H4350, CCI450's, and Hybrids jumping 20 thou. 37.5gr, 38gr, 38.5gr. I also compared BR4's and Alpha brass at 38.5grs. 100yds indoor range.

BLUF: Alpha didn't shoot better. BR4's look better than CCI 450's.

I was surprised how big the groups were. The barrel had 70rds on it and had only been cleared once, 35rds previously. Everything I had shot previously using Hybrids shot better than today. I also think 37.8grs is smack in the middle between two nodes. The groups seemed to be better on both sides so far. I trickled powder using a V2 on an A&D. Same lot of powder, Hybrids, and 450's shoot sub 1/4moa at 300yds out of my Dasher. Barrel is a Proof 1:7.5". No signs of pressure.

I'm going to compare Alpha and Hornady using BR-4's and work from 38.5 to 39.1 in .3gr increments.
 

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LawnMM

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Meh, if between the nodes I dunno if it proves anything. I'll reserve judgment till you're done.
 

reubenski

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Meh, if between the nodes I dunno if it proves anything. I'll reserve judgment till you're done.
My guess right now is that 38.5 is getting into a node. The BR-4's are hotter and are pushing about 50fps faster. Maybe it will look different with 1x fired brass. I'll shoot the best of it at 300 on Tuesday. That will give us a better look.

But, I'm seeing higher velocities than a Dasher. Just not the accuracy.
 

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I have shot the 6 creed for the last 4 years. Tempest action aw mags. Never had a feeding issue. My 6 creed and barrel where done after the Hornady prs match in june. I have seen way to many guys with feeding issues in the br family for me to want to make the switch. I wont own a gun that loses me points because it doesn't feed or function correctly. For me I made the switch to the GT 100% to have the good things of the br family without the feeding issues. I have 400 rounds down the barrel so far and love it. Berger 109 will be here next week.

I could care less how many rounds I get down the barrel. When it's done will change it. I never found pressure, worked my way up to this load and stopped once the accuracy was there.

Alpha is just up the street from me. They said next GT production run will start at the end of Dec

My load info.
Tempest action
Proof barrel 7.5 twist. 27 inches
Hornady brass
Cci br4
H4350 37
Berger 105 30 off.
3015 SD 1

200 yard groups.
 

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reubenski

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I have shot the 6 creed for the last 4 years. Tempest action aw mags. Never had a feeding issue. My 6 creed and barrel where done after the Hornady prs match in june. I have seen way to many guys with feeding issues in the br family for me to want to make the switch. I wont own a gun that loses me points because it doesn't feed or function correctly. For me I made the switch to the GT 100% to have the good things of the br family without the feeding issues. I have 400 rounds down the barrel so far and love it. Berger 109 will be here next week.

I could care less how many rounds I get down the barrel. When it's done will change it. I never found pressure, worked my way up to this load and stopped once the accuracy was there.

Alpha is just up the street from me. They said next GT production run will start at the end of Dec

My load info.
Tempest action
Proof barrel 7.5 twist. 27 inches
Hornady brass
Cci br4
H4350 37
Berger 105 30 off.
3015 SD 1

200 yard groups.
My Dasher's and BRs feed better out of my TL3's than the GT does out of my AI. I keep having to pull the spring and follower out of my AW mag and stretching it. I also get about 1 in 15 that gets the bullet tip hitting the end of the barrel tenon.
 
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kthomas

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My Dasher's and BRs feed better out of my TL3's than the GT does out of my AI. I keep having to pull the spring and follower out of my AW mag and stretching it. I also get about 1 in 15 that gets the bullet tip hitting the end of the barrel tenon.
Once you get a rifle dialed in to run a 6BR type case from a magazine, it runs like a well oiled sewing machine. Both my Mausingfield 6BRA and my wife's LP Fuzion 6 BRA run incredibly well.
 

verdugo60

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My Dasher's and BRs feed better out of my TL3's than the GT does out of my AI. I keep having to pull the spring and follower out of my AW mag and stretching it. I also get about 1 in 15 that gets the bullet tip hitting the end of the barrel tenon.
Well that sucks. I just want it to run in my AT! 1/4 moa would be nice too but I would settle on 1/2 if it would run reliably...
 

47guy

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@Skyking

I’ve shot a BRX for a few years and 3 straight BR barrels and NEVER had feed issues...if someone is having feed issues a little feed lip tuning will fix it...simple.&

as far as your 3 shot 1fps SD...it means nothing...go shoot 50 rounds over the chrony and then talk about your SDs.

I’ve been chasing SDs and ESs for a long time and I’ve NEVER had a 40-50 shot sample under 20-25fps...but I had several 5 shot 0 SD groups and a couple 10shot groups at 1fps and 2fps in a 6.5x47 but over a large sample ALWAYS in the low to high 20s.
 

LawnMM

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50 rounds over a chronograph is a waste of ammo.

Statistics are great when you're into math, little wasteful in this game. If you're into benchrest, go nuts, targets in tactical matches are more than big enough to overcome the 3fps variation in sample sizes of 10 and 50.
 
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47guy

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50 rounds over a chronograph is a waste of ammo.

Statistics are great when you're into math, little wasteful in this game. If you're into benchrest, go nuts, targets in tactical matches are more than big enough to overcome the 3fps variation in sample sizes of 10 and 50.
We’re not talking 3fps variations and in a few of the matches I shoot 30fps will send you over the top at 850yds and you don’t get another shot but that’s not the point the point is that a 3 shot SD Is not solid data.

as far as wasted ammo well I shoot a few prone matches so what better time to collect data?
 
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reubenski

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Hit the range twice today. Put 175rds on the barrel since getting it Thursday. 38.5gr H4350 is compressed when jumping a Hybrid 25 thou. StaBall starts to compress at around 40.6 - 40.8gr. Got some wonky results on Sunday because I pulled the action out of the MPA chassis Saturday. I torqued the 4 action screws down to 45 lbs and figured that would be enough since they're smaller screws. After shooting strangely large groups Sunday and again this morning, I got smart and broke out the 65 lb torque limiter. Fixed the issue.

Alpha Brass does shoot better with H4350 over Hornady. StaBall shoots surprisingly well, in Hornady brass. Haven't tested seating depth in this barrel yet. I got another tip jam today over the course of 80rds. And I felt two more near jams while chambering.

I've thought about selling this barrel, dies, and brass a couple of times over the last three days. Just not sure if the GT is giving me anything over a Dasher. Doesn't seem to shoot as well so far but that could be a number of things. A person could definitely shoot 105s at 3050 without undue pressure although StaBall seems to shoot better at 2960 - 2970.
 

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lte82

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Hit the range twice today. Put 175rds on the barrel since getting it Thursday. 38.5gr H4350 is compressed when jumping a Hybrid 25 thou. StaBall starts to compress at around 40.6 - 40.8gr. Got some wonky results on Sunday because I pulled the action out of the MPA chassis Saturday. I torqued the 4 action screws down to 45 lbs and figured that would be enough since they're smaller screws. After shooting strangely large groups Sunday and again this morning, I got smart and broke out the 65 lb torque limiter. Fixed the issue.

Alpha Brass does shoot better with H4350 over Hornady. StaBall shoots surprisingly well, in Hornady brass. Haven't tested seating depth in this barrel yet. I got another tip jam today over the course of 80rds. And I felt two more near jams while chambering.

I've thought about selling this barrel, dies, and brass a couple of times over the last three days. Just not sure if the GT is giving me anything over a Dasher. Doesn't seem to shoot as well so far but that could be a number of things. A person could definitely shoot 105s at 3050 without undue pressure although StaBall seems to shoot better at 2960 - 2970.
Have you tried Varget yet? Pretty much magic in my 47's.
 

stevenc23

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Serious question: Why are so many using H4350 when G. Gardner states in the video above that other than feeding the main benefit of the 6GT is that it has a perfect powder in Varget as opposed to the 6x47L which is stuck between Varget and H4350?
 

V-Ref

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Hornady brass. Blem RDFs. Piercing primers. Compressed loads. Action screw torque. Two different powders. Two different primers. No seating depth test. 170 rounds. And it’s supposed to shoot like 32.5 of Varget in a Dasher shooting 105s?

How about try the known Varget loads in Alpha brass with a bushed bolt? What if 34.5-35.0 gr of Varget made the gun shoot. Then experiment with IMRs, RDFs, etc.

The comment about giving up on it, made it sound like your not just tinkering around, and looking to find a stable load.
 

B-P-UU

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Serious question: Why are so many using H4350 when G. Gardner states in the video above that other than feeding the main benefit of the 6GT is that it has a perfect powder in Varget as opposed to the 6x47L which is stuck between Varget and H4350?
Because Varget at speeds north of 3000 fps is basically going to mirror the 6 Creedmoor in terms of barrel life.. possibly worse since varget eats throats pretty bad. Could be fine at one of the lower nodes.

You can't get enough H4350 in a case to hit pressure, 100% case fill, slower burning, etc... we'll see, I'm starting with H4350 and 109's or 112's
 

verdugo60

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Not sure about others but probably the same as me: Varget seems to torch throats a bit quicker than H4350 or H1000.

It would be another percieved advantage over Dasher if the slight increase in case capacity allowed H4350 in place of Varget.
 

reubenski

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Hornady brass. Blem RDFs. Piercing primers. Compressed loads. Action screw torque. Two different powders. Two different primers. No seating depth test. 170 rounds. And it’s supposed to shoot like 32.5 of Varget in a Dasher shooting 105s?

How about try the known Varget loads in Alpha brass with a bushed bolt? What if 34.5-35.0 gr of Varget made the gun shoot. Then experiment with IMRs, RDFs, etc.

The comment about giving up on it, made it sound like your not just tinkering around, and looking to find a stable load.
You're really taking things out of context. I haven't done a seating depth test bc we've had a blizzard and the 300yd range hasn't been open yet. Tomorrow I will. I shot some throw away bullets and cheap primers to put some rounds on the barrel so the velocity numbers would have a little more meaning. If the cut line for the GT is 4350 doesn't work and you HAVE to shoot Varget then definitely fuck it. I have two Dasher barrels, two BR barrels, 2 Creed barrels, a 6 SLR, and three more barrels waiting to be chambered. I have barrels coming out my ass; just wanted to try something out. Don't get your feelings hurt if I don't want to put a lot of effort into it. It's not you; it's me.

And I shoot 4350 in my Dasher. It's supposed to shoot like 35grs of H4350 in a Dasher, not 32.5gr of Varget. I shot three Dasher barrels using Varget and two 6.5x47 barrels. It's a throat torcher. Plus you can't even get it right now. I specifically had a GT barrel cut to do what I'm doing with the Dasher but out of an AW mag. If it doesn't work as well; I'll just buy a couple of mag kits and have a Dasher barrel cut for the AI.

But, I'll tell you what: I'll shoot 35gr of Varget in Alpha brass tomorrow just for you.
 

reubenski

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Serious question: Why are so many using H4350 when G. Gardner states in the video above that other than feeding the main benefit of the 6GT is that it has a perfect powder in Varget as opposed to the 6x47L which is stuck between Varget and H4350?
How is a case size so specific to a burn rate when Varget and 8208 shoot well from 223 to 308? You look at what the reccomended powders were 20 years ago and what we're using in those cases now. We're obviously trending to slower powders. Like, who was it that first started using H1000 in a 6 Creed and boasting longer barrel life numbers? 🤔
 

verdugo60

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I appreciate the data collecting and sharing @reubenski. I just got my brass, dies and 105's in today. AI barrel might come this week from GAP.

I'll be trying Hornady brass with H4350, Varget, 110 SMK's, 105 Hybrids and 115 DTACS.

You know you're spoiled when half moa average 5 shots groups are just "ok". We live in the Golden age of precision rifle. 👍🌈🐅💩
 

stevenc23

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How is a case size so specific to a burn rate when Varget and 8208 shoot well from 223 to 308? You look at what the reccomended powders were 20 years ago and what we're using in those cases now. We're obviously trending to slower powders. Like, who was it that first started using H1000 in a 6 Creed and boasting longer barrel life numbers? 🤔
Just going by what the creator of the 6GT said at the 2:40 mark

 

reubenski

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I appreciate the data collecting and sharing @reubenski. I just got my brass, dies and 105's in today. AI barrel might come this week.

I'll be trying Hornady brass with H4350, Varget, 110 SMK's, 105 Hybrids and 115 DTACS.

You know you're spoiled when half moa average 5 shots groups are just "ok". We love in the Golden age of precision rifle. 👍🌈🐅💩
Ha ha, ya no problem. I was just putting out the good, bad, and ugly unbiasedly for infos sake. I normally do load development at 300yds and an inch is my normal standard on 6 Creeds and Dasher's but I've been shooting twice a day in a 100yd indoor range because of the weather. It's supposed to be nice tomorrow so I'll hit the 300. I'll shoot some StaBall in Alpha brass tomorrow, reduce the load on the 4350 to around 2960 - 3000 range and see what it looks like. I'll try some Varget just to see if this cartridge has some sort of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde personality with powders(but I doubt it). I'll also shoot some 1xfired brass to see if there's a difference.
 
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stevenc23

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Cool, cool....

Hey @stevenc23 don't you shoot a Dasher?
Yes, shooting mostly Dasher and 6BR (but also 223, 223AI, 308, 6x47L, 6.5 Creed and 6.5PRC ), but you know I like the latest greatest shiniest toys out there. So when the Dasher barrel is toast will be considering the GT.

Also not sure I came across clearly. What I was meant to say was that after watching the interview with George and his comments on the 6GT and Varget I was surprised to see so many people going with H4350 in place of Varget. I certainly understand that there are many choices of powder for any cartridge.
 
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trophyhunter

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How is everyone stating that Varget is a throat burner and H4350 is easier on throats but on a big majority of the calibers that run either almost prove completely opposite?

6.5creed,6creed,243 all use H4350 and torch a barrel real fast
BR, BRA,Dasher,223,308,BRX all use Varget and some would say last longer then H4350 & creeds

i can’t see an extra 2-3grs of Varget are going to kill a barrel at 6creed speeds when creeds use 10gr more
 

reubenski

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How is everyone stating that Varget is a throat burner and H4350 is easier on throats but on a big majority of the calibers that run either almost prove completely opposite?

6.5creed,6creed,243 all use H4350 and torch a barrel real fast
BR, BRA,Dasher,223,308,BRX all use Varget and some would say last longer then H4350 & creeds

i can’t see an extra 2-3grs of Varget are going to kill a barrel at 6creed speeds when creeds use 10gr more
Because it's all about burn rate relative to case size. You're right, 4350 is a throat torcher in 6 Creed. In fact, 4350 is to 6 Creed that Varget is to Dasher. You get top velocity in a Creed with 4350. That's why people, myself included, are using RL23, 4831SC, RL26, H1000. All powders of a burn rate that won't push top velocity because you can't get top chamber pressure in that size of a case. Hence, easier on throats. This goes back to the long life theory in the 6.5 SAUM 4S and why people were using H1000 in the Creed. There's context that is implied when people say Varget is a throat torcher...in a Dasher and x47.
 

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@reubenski in your opinion, if I'm diving straight into the GT as my first 6mm and not looking to drag race the cartridge is it still viable? I'm looking at it for the potential to get near-3000 FPS shooting 105s or 109s while potentially loading with StaBall on a progressive using the RCBS dies to make accurate enough loads. If not, I'd be using R-16 and funneling/dropping that.

I have no experience shooting Dashers or the the BR siblings so the minute differences and/or similarities with the the other 6mm's is't something I'm familiar with or would be comparing to based on my own experiences. Obviously for the guys with barrels coming out the ass and thousands of rounds of other 6mm's all doing slightly different things it's a little less of a cut and dry choice; as you've noticed.
 

Darkside-Six

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How is everyone stating that Varget is a throat burner and H4350 is easier on throats but on a big majority of the calibers that run either almost prove completely opposite?

6.5creed,6creed,243 all use H4350 and torch a barrel real fast
BR, BRA,Dasher,223,308,BRX all use Varget and some would say last longer then H4350 & creeds

i can’t see an extra 2-3grs of Varget are going to kill a barrel at 6creed speeds when creeds use 10gr more

Exactly. I’ve been following a couple of top shooters who have been shooting the GT for a while now and have well over 2K rounds down the barrel pushing A-Tips at 3010 with Varget.

Just shoot why works.
 

phlegethon

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Because it's all about burn rate relative to case size. You're right, 4350 is a throat torcher in 6 Creed. In fact, 4350 is to 6 Creed that Varget is to Dasher. You get top velocity in a Creed with 4350. That's why people, myself included, are using RL23, 4831SC, RL26, H1000. All powders of a burn rate that won't push top velocity because you can't get top chamber pressure in that size of a case. Hence, easier on throats. This goes back to the long life theory in the 6.5 SAUM 4S and why people were using H1000 in the Creed. There's context that is implied when people say Varget is a throat torcher...in a Dasher and x47.
I think it’s been shown that velocity of the bullet is the largest factor in throat erosion. And I’ve never heard of H1000 in 6 Creedmoor before you mentioned it here. When I searched for discussion, all I found was a few threads where people said they tried it and it didn’t work well for them.

edit: note also this from https://precisionrifleblog.com/2019/09/06/6mm-6-5-creedmoor-load-data/
Mostly H4350. No H1000.

 
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verdugo60

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I'm not balls deep in competition or 6mm intracisies but reubenski is correct in that H1000 and H4350 are generally easier on throats vs Varget. Varget is a great, useful powder and in traditional 223 heavy loads and 308 barrel life isn't noticed as much because they last 5-8k.

Look up the 6SLR, etc. It was the "cure"
using H1000, to the 243's and 6 Creedmoors that were torching barrels in 1K rounds or less with Varget.

If I can get 2K rounds of legit velocity and accuracy from a GT with Varget or H4350 I'll be super happy. If it feeds reliably in my regular AI AT I'll be stoked too. If it performs more like a 6creed I'll do a Creed next or maybe a 6x47l.
 
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reubenski

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@reubenski in your opinion, if I'm diving straight into the GT as my first 6mm and not looking to drag race the cartridge is it still viable? I'm looking at it for the potential to get near-3000 FPS shooting 105s or 109s while potentially loading with StaBall on a progressive using the RCBS dies to make accurate enough loads. If not, I'd be using R-16 and funneling/dropping that.

I have no experience shooting Dashers or the the BR siblings so the minute differences and/or similarities with the the other 6mm's is't something I'm familiar with or would be comparing to based on my own experiences. Obviously for the guys with barrels coming out the ass and thousands of rounds of other 6mm's all doing slightly different things it's a little less of a cut and dry choice; as you've noticed.
For sure. I was really skeptical about StaBall but I'm pleasantly surprised how it shoots. I hope it continues to shoot well and pan out to a larger node of accuracy bc I ordered a Redding BR-30 and I'm going to mount it on my 650. I'm interested to see if I can get a load that consistently shoots 3/8's out of thrown loads on a progressive. I'd also like to nail down a 6mm bullet feeder solution.

I definitely think this cartridge will shoot, it's just will it shoot under a wide range of conditions. I'm really surprised at the drama caused by shooting 4350 in it. It even proves to shoot well with it using Alpha brass. I guess people seem to think it's too finicky a cartridge to use a wider range of powders. I'm not sure that's the case.
 

verdugo60

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Part of the draw of the GT is that it is supposed to mimick the accuracy of the 6BR/Dasher family with it's short fat case and 40 degree shoulder angle but also overcome feeding issues associated with the BR by having a slightly longer body.

6x47's and 6 creeds are a bit more finicky so if the GT can do the hybrid thing between BR's and 6creeds it will be popular.
 
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verdugo60

Sergeant
Belligerents
Jul 6, 2010
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Denver, CO
For sure. I was really skeptical about StaBall but I'm pleasantly surprised how it shoots. I hope it continues to shoot well and pan out to a larger node of accuracy bc I ordered a Redding BR-30 and I'm going to mount it on my 650. I'm interested to see if I can get a load that consistently shoots 3/8's out of thrown loads on a progressive. I'd also like to nail down a 6mm bullet feeder solution.

I definitely think this cartridge will shoot, it's just will it shoot under a wide range of conditions. I'm really surprised at the drama caused by shooting 4350 in it. It even proves to shoot well with it using Alpha brass. I guess people seem to think it's too finicky a cartridge to use a wider range of powders. I'm not sure that's the case.
The dream of a progressive "slop" load lives on, lol!
 
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MOshooter

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Minuteman
Apr 10, 2018
45
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12
Honest question, how many guys actually have feeding issues with a dasher? I personally have not over multiple barrels and 2 different actions. I think this point is blown way out of proportion.
I'm not a debbie downer on the GT, if it had been available 3 years ago when I started with a Dasher, I probably would have skipped the dasher for GT.
Now that my well-used dasher brass is just about at the end of it's useful life, I'm strongly considering the GT as a replacement.
I was at this point as well. Im only 130 rounds deep into the 6GT but so far it is doing what I expected.