25 Creedmoor Load Development

Covertnoob5

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Has anyone tried VVn140 in a 25 Creed? I've got 8lbs from my BR and they list 6.5 Creed in the VV load data. My 25 Creed barrel should be here in a couple weeks. So I'm gonna start with that.
 

canezach

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42.2 grains of Reloder 16, MV of 2974, and a G7 of 0.335 gives me first round impacts at 705, 890, 924, and 1020.

5.0 mils to 890, 5.3 to 924, and 6.2 to 1020.

Wind was around 5 mph from 10:00, but gusting around 8 to 9 downrange. Still only needed 1 mil of wind to connect at 1020

Edit: The elevation difference between the 0.335 I used and the 0.340 others have reported is pretty negligible. It might be a few hundredths off in the elevation solution, like 5.31 versus 5.35 at 924 yards.
 
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Temper

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What are people using for a case trimmer? I had a WFT for my 6.5... curious what everyone is using for 25 CM.
I'm using a 6.5x47 WFT with my 25x47. Works fine. The difference in caliber is .007 at the end of the day.
 

just browsing

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42.2 grains of Reloder 16, MV of 2974, and a G7 of 0.335 gives me first round impacts at 705, 890, 924, and 1020.

5.0 mils to 890, 5.3 to 924, and 6.2 to 1020.

Wind was around 5 mph from 10:00, but gusting around 8 to 9 downrange. Still only needed 1 mil of wind to connect at 1020

Edit: The elevation difference between the 0.335 I used and the 0.340 others have reported is pretty negligible. It might be a few hundredths off in the elevation solution, like 5.31 versus 5.35 at 924 yards.
I am essentially going to end up around the same area, charge weight and speed wise. I ended up at .345 for BC but as you said, the difference is really negligible inside of 1k yards.
 

Stevo86

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Short wouldn’t work for me, just made that mistake. Long is what I needed
 
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sissupr

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Gents. Having a brain fart this Sunday morn...

I have about 200pcs of once fired 25 Creed Alpha Brass. What should I be using to set the neck tension back?

I’m a little confused here. In the past when I reloaded 6.5 CM, I just used my Forster FL resizer (length and neck). This mandrel process is throwing me off a bit.

As for everything else..

- Redding 6.5 Type S sizer w/.283 bushing (.281 and .283)
- Redding 6.5 Comp Seater w/VLD long seating stem
Apologize if this is totally newbie... 25 CM is not as straight forward for the in-experienced! I just want to shoot this damn thing already lol... just put it together this weekend.

F0CC5EA8-2ACC-415A-9369-3BCE10BF66CA.jpeg
 

canezach

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If I'm understanding your question correctly, and since you mention having a mandrel and neck tension, I find the expander mandrel works perfectly for me. I set my tension at 0.001". Others prefer the turning mandrel 0.002" tension, but I find it raises my SD and ES slightly.
 

sissupr

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If I measure my once fired brass (total of 5), the average neck tension (diameter) is .2875 in, when I measure a NEW, never fired Alpha brass it’s .2831 in ... so roughly .004 bigger.

How do I get the once fired brass to sized down. Running 6.5 CM, it’s easier... just run it through the full length resizer... for 25 CM, how do I resize the neck tension.

Seriously, spell it out lol...
 
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canezach

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Gotcha.

Take your Forester sizing die and drop in the 0.281 bushing, since that's the smallest you have. Take a piece of 6.5 Creedmoor brass, run it through the sizer. Now take a bullet, seat the bullet, and measure the outside diameter with your calipers. If your loaded round measures 0.283 or 0.284, just keep using the 0.281 bushing to squeeze the neck down on all your brass. After spring back, you'll have the neck down to about 0.2815ish. Now just run your mandrel through the neck to set your desired neck tension. If your loaded round is 0.285 or larger, use the 0.283. Personally, I use a 0.282, but I also use Starline brass.
 
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Bob Wiese

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I've got what you're looking for.

COAL: 2.841
Alpha 6.5 Creed Brass neck length after sizing: ~0.2745
Bullet bearing/boat tail length seated: 0.2830

Attached pics so you can see what I'm talking about. I've got a little wiggle room to load longer if needed. I've always been told that you want the bearing surface to be as long as the caliber is in diameter.
Excellent information! Thanks much for sharing all of this!
 
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BLKWLFK9

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What is everyone's case measurement on their fired alpha brass?
 

MilSpecOkie

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That sounds like a neck measurement. The case measurement will depend on your chamber and how the smith set the head space. There can be 5-6 thousands difference between go and no go gauges and the chamber could be anywhere in between there. Mine is 1.535” on fired brass if I remember correctly, but it could be more or less in your gun.
 
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BLKWLFK9

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Wow. Mine is 1.540. Much larger than yalls. When the brass was virgin, I would chamber it and not pull the trigger, and it would leave the round in the chamber. The extractor wouldnt catch unless the trigger was pulled. Am I over stretching the brass and compromising the integrity of the case webbing?
 

canezach

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Wow. Mine is 1.540. Much larger than yalls. When the brass was virgin, I would chamber it and not pull the trigger, and it would leave the round in the chamber. The extractor wouldnt catch unless the trigger was pulled. Am I over stretching the brass and compromising the integrity of the case webbing?
How much are you bumping the shoulder back every time you resize? The first firing would've expanded your brass to your chamber, but if you're only bumping it back a thousandth or two, you aren't working it any harder than anyone else. As long as you aren't bumping it back to, let's say, 1.532 and stretching it to 1.540 each firing, you should be fine.
 
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BLKWLFK9

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Nah, I'm bumping them .002 but I was thinking more so about the initial stretch from virgin to 1x fired.
 

canezach

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Nah, I'm bumping them .002 but I was thinking more so about the initial stretch from virgin to 1x fired.
While the initial stretch is a bit long, it's the repeated sizing, specifically oversizing and forcing it to stretch every time, that will eventually compromise the "case head separation" line. Just keep a bent paper clip on your bench to check.
 
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MilSpecOkie

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It should be okay as long as you are only bumping it .002”. Just think of all the extra case capacity you have over us! Almost like shooting a 260 Remington. LOL
 
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Raufoss

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Thats the measurement from using a headspace gauge?
Neck O.D

As for fired headspace measurement , giving the number mean nothing as the tool used are not the same for anyone so that mean nothing.

what I can tell you is that my fired brass are 0.004 longer than virgin Alpha.

you should do that and compare virgin vs fired.
 
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BLKWLFK9

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Neck O.D

As for fired headspace measurement , giving the number mean nothing as the tool used are not the same for anyone so that mean nothing.

what I can tell you is that my fired brass are 0.004 longer than virgin Alpha.

you should do that and compare virgin vs fired.
I did. My fired is much larger than virgin. That was my dilemma.
 

Raufoss

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I did. My fired is much larger than virgin. That was my dilemma.
Don’t worry too much about it. You’ll be fine.

many virgin brass are really at the bottom of the saami spec if not under.

you can always monitor case head separation with the paper clip test. But I doubt it will happen anytime soo
 
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MilSpecOkie

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Mine were 1.527” virgin and 1.535” after first firing. Every batch of brass I have ever bought is way under sized. It’s their way of making sure it fits in any chamber.
 
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n00g7

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Committed to trying a 25 Creedmoor (more or less).
LMK if I missed anything.

Plan(ed) on working from 6mm SRP brass, so:

Redding FL 6.5 bushing die
-.282 bushing
-tapered .257 expander

Redding 6.5 seater
-257 VLD stem

The 257 VLD stem (which sounds optional and the 6.5 stem might work fine or could use my 6 CM seater) and the tapered expander (similar situation by just getting 6.5 CM brass) are both on back order. Should I just bypass one or both of those items?

For the barrel, I have a Benchmark MTU 7.25tw that’s waiting to be chambered, but haven’t decided on a length yet. Is there any reason to go 27/26” vs say 24/25” if 2950-3000fps is where these bullets want to run anyways? MTU barrels are pretty beast so I’m leaning towards 25”, or even 24 if I’m not going to get much out of the extra length.

Powder wise, I have H4350, 4831sc, H100V, Superformance, and StaBall 6.5 to work with.
 

MangoFett

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Committed to trying a 25 Creedmoor (more or less).
LMK if I missed anything.

Plan(ed) on working from 6mm SRP brass, so:

Redding FL 6.5 bushing die
-.282 bushing
-tapered .257 expander

Redding 6.5 seater
-257 VLD stem

The 257 VLD stem (which sounds optional and the 6.5 stem might work fine or could use my 6 CM seater) and the tapered expander (similar situation by just getting 6.5 CM brass) are both on back order. Should I just bypass one or both of those items?

For the barrel, I have a Benchmark MTU 7.25tw that’s waiting to be chambered, but haven’t decided on a length yet. Is there any reason to go 27/26” vs say 24/25” if 2950-3000fps is where these bullets want to run anyways? MTU barrels are pretty beast so I’m leaning towards 25”, or even 24 if I’m not going to get much out of the extra length.

Powder wise, I have H4350, 4831sc, H100V, Superformance, and StaBall 6.5 to work with.

When I asked blackjack about dies he said he preferred the Forster seating dies but the redding with the vld stem works too. I didnt ask him anything more on it because I've used Forster with success for a few seasons now.

I'd use h3450 for the powder, seems like the absolute winner. Rl16 is another option but in my 260 it was much dirtier than H4350 and H4350 should get you easily in that speed mode so theres no reason not to just stick with h4350.

For barrel length just pick what makes sense to you. Will your rifle easily fit in your case with a large prs style brake and a 26 inch barrel? MTU is pretty beefy so do you want the extra weight up front or not?
 

Raufoss

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Committed to trying a 25 Creedmoor (more or less).
LMK if I missed anything.

Plan(ed) on working from 6mm SRP brass, so:

Redding FL 6.5 bushing die
-.282 bushing
-tapered .257 expander

Redding 6.5 seater
-257 VLD stem

The 257 VLD stem (which sounds optional and the 6.5 stem might work fine or could use my 6 CM seater) and the tapered expander (similar situation by just getting 6.5 CM brass) are both on back order. Should I just bypass one or both of those items?

For the barrel, I have a Benchmark MTU 7.25tw that’s waiting to be chambered, but haven’t decided on a length yet. Is there any reason to go 27/26” vs say 24/25” if 2950-3000fps is where these bullets want to run anyways? MTU barrels are pretty beast so I’m leaning towards 25”, or even 24 if I’m not going to get much out of the extra length.

Powder wise, I have H4350, 4831sc, H100V, Superformance, and StaBall 6.5 to work with.
I run the same Benchmark than you.

I went for 25 inch for fun.

42.3gr of H4350 give me 2905 fps in the first 52 rounds. Then 2925 fps from there and I have not yet shot 100 rounds .

I second the Forster Ultra seater. Better results than with my Redding comp.
For sizing I use a Hornady match FL with a 0.281 bushing and a PMA 0.255 expander
 

n00g7

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Okay, cool. My 6mm CM seater is a Forster, I’ll see about getting a Forster 6.5 and forgo the VLD stem business with the Redding die.

I haven’t had much luck finding RL powders in general. Figured I’d start with the H4350 at least because there are more data points and then maybe branch out from there.

Looking to go a bit more weight forward than my 6mm (24” HV in an MPA), but I really don’t have any idea what that would come out to in terms of length as this is a completely new rifle (impact in a foundation). I was leaning 25” so maybe I’ll just give that a go, and if I need a bit more heft I’ll drop a heavier magnum brake on it instead of a 419 hellfire.
 

Raufoss

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Okay, cool. My 6mm CM seater is a Forster, I’ll see about getting a Forster 6.5 and forgo the VLD stem business with the Redding die.

I haven’t had much luck finding RL powders in general. Figured I’d start with the H4350 at least because there are more data points and then maybe branch out from there.

Looking to go a bit more weight forward than my 6mm (24” HV in an MPA), but I really don’t have any idea what that would come out to in terms of length as this is a completely new rifle (impact in a foundation). I was leaning 25” so maybe I’ll just give that a go, and if I need a bit more heft I’ll drop a heavier magnum brake on it instead of a 419 hellfire.
Hellfire is perfectly enough. I doubt you’ll get more performance with an additional port as there is not enough gas volume.

actually my Forster seater is a 6 creed modified( reamed neck) but the stem fit perfect with the ogive.
 

n00g7

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Hellfire is perfectly enough. I doubt you’ll get more performance with an additional port as there is not enough gas volume.

actually my Forster seater is a 6 creed modified( reamed neck) but the stem fit perfect with the ogive.
Definitely not needed for performance, more for added weight which probably won’t be necessary.

Alright, so I’m going to:
1) Order a 6.5 Forster micrometer seater
2) Order 6.5 SRP brass rather than use 6mm brass
3) Cancel the 257 VLD stem and 6.5 Redding seater
4) Cancel the tapered button as now going down from 6.5

Not relying on anything back ordered now and I think it’s even a bit less cost wise even. Thanks a bunch.
 

MilSpecOkie

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Definitely not needed for performance, more for added weight which probably won’t be necessary.

Alright, so I’m going to:
1) Order a 6.5 Forster micrometer seater
2) Order 6.5 SRP brass rather than use 6mm brass
3) Cancel the 257 VLD stem and 6.5 Redding seater
4) Cancel the tapered button as now going down from 6.5

Not relying on anything back ordered now and I think it’s even a bit less cost wise even. Thanks a bunch.
I would use 6mm and size up instead of down sizing 6.5 brass. You are less likely to run into too thick of necks which may require turning depending on your chamber. Hell, I used Alpha 25 Creedmoor brass and still had to turn the necks.
 
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