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  • 2013 SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE


    COMPETITION DYNAMICS and THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORPORATION present The
    2013 SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE - SPRINT CLASS and ENDURANCE CLASS
    4-7 JULY 2013 at the Felix Canyon Ranch (Mayhill, NM)

    The 2013 Sniper Adventure Challenge is an adventure race involving land navigation, practical shooting with long-range rifle, carbine and pistols, fieldcraft, problem solving and other related tasks.

    The Sniper Adventure Challenge, had its debut in 2012 and was very well received by active and non-active military, law enforcement, and citizens.

    Due to demand, the 2013 Sniper Adventure Challenge will be expanded to provide an Endurance Class (24-30 hours of effort, 30-40 miles of on foot land nav) as well as a Sprint Class (8-16 hours of effort, 8-15 miles of on foot land nav).

    The rest of the details are available on the web sites:
    MATCH WEB SITE - ENDURANCE CLASS
    MATCH WEB SITE - SPRINT CLASS


    Intel:
    Click here for 2012 INFO
    Click here for 2012 SH Thread

    REGISTRATION IS OPEN NOW
    # Please use email instead of "PM's" to contact me.

  • #2
    Re: 2013 SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

    I have been anxiously awaiting the release of details of the SAC for this year. I competed in the match last year and absolutely enjoyed it. I thought the 2012 match was well planned, professional, and just about right in size and difficulty (with a few exceptions).

    Unfortunately I am overall disappointed in what I am seeing for the 2013 version of this epic race. Here is my take on what I see so far.

    The good changes:

    I love the idea of having a sprint class. This was my biggest complaint of the 2012 race. There were too many teams that came unprepared and physically could not complete the race. My team was one of the few that actually made it to every checkpoint (I think only eight teams actually finished everything) and was very frustrated at the end of the race having to wait two hours at a checkpoint so that lost/late teams could be found so we could start shooting. It was also frustrating having to wait for teams that skipped checkpoints who were given priority at latter stages just because they happened to get there first because they skipped checkpoints. I think these problems will be fixed with the endurance/sprint classes.

    Keeping the length of the race at 30-40 miles was a good idea as well. I thought that last year's length was perfect.

    Bad changes:

    When I saw that we were going to be having the race outside of Mayhill, I had mixed feelings. I assumed we would be in the mountains of Mayhill which would be good because of the high elevation and cooler temps (the mountains of Mayhill go really high up to 9000 feet). I also like the forest terrain. Its fun to run around in. I was shocked to see that we were actually going to be in the desert east of Mayhill.
    The area of the ranch is pretty bland with little elevation gain/loss. The biggest "mountain" I could find in the area was a 300 ft hill. I really liked the terrain of last year because it included several really killer climbs including a 2000ft ascent at one point. This really separated the men from the boys. I don't see much of a challenge in rolling foot hills. Also, after looking at YouTube videos of the ranch I was not impressed at all. I watched a quail hunt on the ranch and the video did not leave me impressed. The terrain had so much sharp rock and cactus that the ranch could not use dogs because they would get beat up so bad in the terrain. There is a very fine line between making a race tough and making a race "uncomfortable." The only "uncomfortable" aspects of the 2012 SAC was the heat and the 3 mile dead weight haul down freshly tarred road in 95 degree weather. The rest of the race was physically challenging, but not "uncomfortable." This location is going to be nothing but uncomfortable. We are constantly going to be brushing against cactus plants in ultra high heat (the elevation is 5000ft right off the border of Mexico in July). Add to that the sharp rocks everywhere and I think problems are going to arise. We had a hard enough time with dehydration at the last race, I can only imagine its going to be more of a problem this year. I think injuries are going to increase as well. I just can't imagine walking around in the dark with all of that cactus everywhere! That is really going to suck.

    The flat terrain will make orienteering more challenging which is a plus though. That will be a real challenge. Check out this video to see the country: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmYPCPTMGkY

    The other problem is that Mayhill is really isolated. The closest airports are ABQ, Lubbock (both 4.5 hours away) and Carlsbad. All of these airports offer limited flights and Carlsbad is really expensive to fly into. Last year you could fly into SLC which is a Delta hub so it was pretty much a direct flight for everybody with Delta access. Also, there were a lot of hotel and eating options for the travelers. There are no hotels within reasonable access to the ranch. Although the ranch has graciously offered us lodging, I personally don't want to be bunked in a room with a dozen other guys before and after a race.

    My biggest complaint is doing the race over the 4th of July. I understand this would help some people get out of work, but that's the only upside. Flights are even more expensive on a holiday, and I don't know about most people but I like to spend holidays with my family. Also spreading the race over four days makes it even more costly and difficult to plan. I would have to fly out on the 3rd, do the four day race, and then fly back on the 8th. That is six days I'll have to plan out and miss the entire 4th holiday with my family. This increases the costs this year (more missed work, more hotel rooms, etc.) Last year travel expenses and match fees cost our team about $1000. This year because of the location, the added days, added driving distances, increased match costs, etc. I'm estimating conservatively about $2750 for the team (which doesn't include missed work).

    I hate to say it but the positives don't outweigh the negatives for me. As much as I loved the race last year, We are going to be out this year which is a bummer. I don't want to sound like a whiner, but I'm really disappointed. We finished in the top five last year and I had every intention of trying to win the race this year.I had higher expectations so I feel a little let down.

    Good luck to all the competitors this year! Maybe I'll see you next year.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 2013 SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

      Sorry you won't be making it this year.

      For airports, try El Paso. It's closer and has good availability.

      I understand your complaint about the schedule. No schedule will make everyone happy, and we have to work around the venue as well as our other events. I know a bunch of racers from last year were waiting on our dates to set up the rest of their competition year, and some sacrifices will be necessary to be part of an epic event.

      The FCR is an ideal place to run an adventure style long-range shooting event. Yep, the terrain is much different than what we had last year in Utah. We don't just plunk down the same event regardless of location-- everything is tuned around its potential, be it stages in the Steel Safari or SHC, or the land nav route, shooting stage, and "challenges" in the SAC.

      One thing potential competitors might think about is, what did the layout of the 2012 match effectively rule out that this venue does not? If the level of physical and mental difficulty of the 2012 event was about right, how might a similar level be realized at this venue? I won't be giving you the answers here..

      We have over 230 square miles to work with. If you're worried about it being "challenging" enough, think about how much of a walk in the park it was to MCP1 even though there was almost no elevation change.

      The on-site lodging package includes meals (before/after the course) and is a good deal..

      # Please use email instead of "PM's" to contact me.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 2013 SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

        Originally Posted By: Elk Assassin


        The good changes:

        I love the idea of having a sprint class. This was my biggest complaint of the 2012 race. There were too many teams that came unprepared and physically could not complete the race. My team was one of the few that actually made it to every checkpoint (I think only eight teams actually finished everything) and was very frustrated at the end of the race having to wait two hours at a checkpoint so that lost/late teams could be found so we could start shooting. It was also frustrating having to wait for teams that skipped checkpoints who were given priority at latter stages just because they happened to get there first because they skipped checkpoints. I think these problems will be fixed with the endurance/sprint classes.


        This was also my biggest complaint from last year. I was on one of the teams that actually finished all of the checkpoints, and yet, we finished behind a team that skipped checkpoints.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 2013 SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

          It will be addressed..
          # Please use email instead of "PM's" to contact me.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 2013 SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

            It's not called a "Challenge" for the heck of it - and anyone who has spent time at Pendleton can tell you that rolling hills are definitely a challenge. Frankly, MCP1 to MCP2 was not a huge challenge for me, it was all the steep descents (I fell about a half dozen times).

            My teammate from last year and I will be there.

            Zak, do you know if the ranch will allow us to use their dirt airstrip? I suppose that I could just call them...
            vuurwapenblog.com
            luckygunner.com/labs

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 2013 SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

              Glad to have you back again!
              # Please use email instead of "PM's" to contact me.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 2013 SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

                Looking forward to it! Although it's very different terrain, I know it will be very hard.
                Steve

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 2013 SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

                  Originally Posted By: Come and Take It
                  Looking forward to it! Although it's very different terrain, I know it will be very hard.


                  Yep.
                  COMPETITION DYNAMICS: DIRECTOR, SPONSORS - STEEL SAFARI - SNIPER ADV. CHALLENGE - TEAM CHALLENGE
                  PM to sponsor these events!
                  AI & Glock armorer
                  Sims Supervisor

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 2013 SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

                    Looks like another epic event. I am looking forward to it, but I am severely disappointed in the date choice. Will see if I can swing it, but missing aholiday with a young family of 5 is going to make it a tough decision. We learned a lot last year, and I have been training for this for a few months now, if I can't make it I wish all competitors a safe and epic ride this summer.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 2013 SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

                      Originally Posted By: zion zig zag
                      Originally Posted By: Elk Assassin
                      The good changes:

                      I love the idea of having a sprint class. This was my biggest complaint of the 2012 race. There were too many teams that came unprepared and physically could not complete the race. My team was one of the few that actually made it to every checkpoint (I think only eight teams actually finished everything) and was very frustrated at the end of the race having to wait two hours at a checkpoint so that lost/late teams could be found so we could start shooting. It was also frustrating having to wait for teams that skipped checkpoints who were given priority at latter stages just because they happened to get there first because they skipped checkpoints. I think these problems will be fixed with the endurance/sprint classes.
                      This was also my biggest complaint from last year. I was on one of the teams that actually finished all of the checkpoints, and yet, we finished behind a team that skipped checkpoints.
                      One big challenge for running these kinds of gruelling matches is the ability to attract the repeat competitor. That's why I like the change of venue and the sprint class.

                      That said, I would like to see a rendezvous point set-up for individuals who are able to continue: The idea being that if you can make it back to the rendezvous point you can formulate another team and continue the match from there. Last year my team mate went down (literally) and, unable to continue getting to each checkpoint in order, I volunteered to RO a stage for the duration of the match. I had a great time meeting everyone, but it was frustrating to see other able-bodied teams continue and shoot the remaining four stages despite having been hopelessly lost or having camped-out in the night and skipped checkpoints altogether.
                      Greatest Internet Commando Ever !

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 2013 SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

                        Gotta see if I can scrounge up a partner.
                        IN ORBE TERRUM NON VISI

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 2013 SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

                          We will be there, looking forward to the extra space.

                          Can you give details on the snake population, and will we get to fight Steven Segal this year?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 2013 SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

                            You might have to wrestle a bear in a snake pit.
                            # Please use email instead of "PM's" to contact me.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 2013 SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

                              Originally Posted By: Graham
                              [quote=zion zig zag][quote=Elk Assassin]

                              That said, I would like to see a rendezvous point set-up for individuals who are able to continue: The idea being that if you can make it back to the rendezvous point you can formulate another team and continue the match from there. Last year my team mate went down (literally) and, unable to continue getting to each checkpoint in order, I volunteered to RO a stage for the duration of the match. I had a great time meeting everyone, but it was frustrating to see other able-bodied teams continue and shoot the remaining four stages despite having been hopelessly lost or having camped-out in the night and skipped checkpoints altogether.


                              Good idea
                              Steve

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Re: 2013 SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

                                Another thing about flatter terrain is that there are far fewer handrails for navigation, making micro-nav way harder, especially at night.

                                Gotta think about it a little Zak, but I'll be there if I can. Had a blast last year.
                                -----------------------
                                "We must reject the idea that every time a law is broken, society is guilty
                                rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each
                                individual is accountable for his action." - Ronald Reagan

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Re: 2013 SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

                                  My friend and I just entered. We're hoping to get in. Sounds like a ton of fun!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    We still have openings for both classes!
                                    # Please use email instead of "PM's" to contact me.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I just have to say guys, if you want something that is a real challenge, a formative experience, do this. Really, it doesn't matter how you do, train your best and get out there.

                                      Succeed or fail, you will learn a ton about yourself, your equipment, and your buddy. The CD group puts on a great event, and with the new area, there is a _lot_ of terrain to cover, this is way bigger than even last years event.

                                      We are in.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I think you guys are hurting Zak's match with the negative conversation about teams that didn't hit all MCPs. Only 8 of 34 teams (IIRC) did.

                                        For various reasons my partner and I were not able to hit all MCPs but we hit what we could and finished on top of the conex at dusk.

                                        We made mistakes in nutrition, gear and training and paid for them. Sometimes that happens when you compete and particularly in ultra distance events which take small mistakes and magnify them for a long period of time and yield huge differences in result.

                                        We still had an epic experience, learned a lot and sadly we won't be able to give it a better shot this year.
                                        Last edited by luvtolean; 02-26-2013, 05:29 PM.

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          This event is intended to be extraordinarily hard. A team that physically and mentally prepares should be able to finish unless they make mistakes.

                                          And just finishing the SAC is a significant accomplishment.
                                          # Please use email instead of "PM's" to contact me.

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            Some of you may have noticed that your checks haven't been deposited yet. I apologize for this. I have been waiting on some documents from the lawyer before moving to a new bank and I finally got acceptable versions this week. We should be able to deposit your checks next week. Thanks for your patience and understanding.
                                            # Please use email instead of "PM's" to contact me.

                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE - SPECIAL POINTS AVAILABLE
                                              At one of the checkpoints, you will be able to hand in proof of "publicity" for an additional 100 event points. To obtain the points, you must write about why you are competing in the 2013 Sniper Adventure Challenge, your goals, and what are some of the things you are doing in preparattion. This must then be published in one of the follow ways (1) print media with public distribution (magazine, newspaper, etc); (2) an article on an established blog; (3) a Facebook post that gets at least 100 "Likes"; (4) starting a "Forum" thread that goes for at least 3 pages of discussion. A print-out will suffice as proof. This is an easy way to get 100 points ahead before you even show up.
                                              # Please use email instead of "PM's" to contact me.

                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                Hi Everyone! I found out about this on Facebook & have some questions. Is this open to women? I've never done anything like this, I have no military back ground and very limited skills in this area. However, I'm a huge supporter of the 2A and a very motivated person. Diane Feinstein's comments about a woman not being able to defend herself with one of these "killing machines" has put me over the edge. I feel like I need to prove it to every one that women can do things like this and that women can shoot a gun. Any kind of gun. I live in CO and with all the legislation that was passed this week also has me motivated to do this. Anyway, any suggestion on how to find a team mate? Where do I even go to start training? I DO have the funds to purchase any weapons/gear needed to actually compete. I'm also wondering if there are any training groups that would be willing to sponsor me. Meaning to train me, not to buy my equipment. Any suggestions on finding a sponsor to train me? Thanks in advance for the info!

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  The competition is open to anyone who may legally possess the firearms and is mentally and physically prepared to address the challenges.

                                                  For land navigation, check out Civilian Orienteering.

                                                  This thread and the 2012 24H-SAC thread contain a lot of information about what to expect at this event in particular.

                                                  There are a variety of training schools for the firearms component. If you provide your locale that might be helpful for suggestions.
                                                  # Please use email instead of "PM's" to contact me.

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