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  • Compass or Map to ground

    In open terrain (day/moon light)which were you faster with?
    In double or triple canopy could you still map nav well, using just water or topo if you knew your starting point?
    What items did you use to keep pace count at night? What was your count in flat vs ruff vs up a mtn?
    An lastly if you did drop off or other single duty, what was one tactic you used to rejoin a different unit (if need be) if/when your como went tits up?
    Get Busy Living or Get Busy Dying,...but,....Which Ever You Choose, Make A Difference,....


    Sometimes doing the right thing is the wrong thing to many, but once you become a felon by your hand or theirs, be the best you can be.

  • #2
    Outside of an actual land-nav course and the early months of learning real navigation beyond what I knew from growing up in the bush and mountains, I never once kept a pace count. This included Lejeune, Okinawa, Quantico, Polk, Drum, too many deserts to name, etc. And no, I didn't just run a GPS either, I just really knew how to terrain associate really well. I would make map checks often, small marks here and there for reference on the map, and constantly watch the ground for how I was going to move to not be compromised. Terrain association is key because there's little time for shooting actual bearings in a 2-man team, and it's fast as shit on a fire mission to run a rapid eyeballed grid to get first round on its way, then prep the shift with O-T direction from the compass while it's in the air. Nighttime was only a little different, more prominent attack points than anything, but I was also running Gen-3 NODs in my years so identifying distant terrain was pretty easy too. Rarely did I need to run a resection, mostly only shortly after insert to make sure the pilot put me where I asked and to firmly orient myself.

    Was a lot nicer after I started running the Garmin e-Trex, but shortly thereafter I got myself promoted and bumped to a CAAT Platoon in trucks. Mind blown when early on I was asked how fast I could cover a click for an assault range, my typical answer before would always be an hour, looked at one of my squad leaders and he said 60 seconds is no problem. Damn did I like trucking it...

    As for bearings, I typically ran a small compass for cardinal directions on my watch band, and only broke out the lensatic for fire missions and nighttime azimuths. Otherwise, I never moved in a straight line, always used the veg or terrain to my advantage for concealment, attack points or prominent terrain to aid navigation (keep the big river to the right, etc), and only once did I miss being where I was supposed to be, short stopped and got eyes on another small clearing about 200m from where I was supposed to be looking at during the final exercise in school. I was still refining things then as a thought I knew it all Corporal, I'll just say I ate my Chicken Soup and learned my lesson.
    We are not nation building again. We are killing terrorists.
    The President

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    • #3
      I'll be following this topic with great interest.
      2015 AI AX308
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      Atlas

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      • #4
        2 and 3 point resection is all you need

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        • #5
          Glad modern land nav is much easier than when we were doing it. Best NV back then was a M1 carbine w/ IR attached, then came the PVS-2 and much later the PVS 4. Those old skill sets still work, but are way slower in movement. I remember the very first time I had to move using the nightwalk, (WW II tactic I think) I thought it would be days before I got there but was surprised at how quickly lighting can change in just a few yards. I hope many never forget how to use a compass/stars at night, for if it ever gets real most battery devices will be worthless quickly. One day we will fight our equal instead of proxy's.

          Do they still do drop off duty or has that went away as well?
          Last edited by Gunfighter14e2; 07-29-2017, 09:17 PM. Reason: add another f to change of to off
          Get Busy Living or Get Busy Dying,...but,....Which Ever You Choose, Make A Difference,....


          Sometimes doing the right thing is the wrong thing to many, but once you become a felon by your hand or theirs, be the best you can be.

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          • #6
            fat fingers again
            Get Busy Living or Get Busy Dying,...but,....Which Ever You Choose, Make A Difference,....


            Sometimes doing the right thing is the wrong thing to many, but once you become a felon by your hand or theirs, be the best you can be.

            Comment


            • #7
              You'd still recognize the commonly used insert/extract methods. At its core, ground combat changed with weapons employed more than tactics.

              GPS grid locations are a way of life for present day military, almost always mandated for supporting arms, but the core fundamentals are still taught, just not practiced nearly as much as they used to be.
              Last edited by Redmanss; 07-30-2017, 04:40 PM.
              We are not nation building again. We are killing terrorists.
              The President

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              • #8
                How much latitude do you have these days when calling in Tac Air or indirect? Or do you have to call above, wait/hope?
                Get Busy Living or Get Busy Dying,...but,....Which Ever You Choose, Make A Difference,....


                Sometimes doing the right thing is the wrong thing to many, but once you become a felon by your hand or theirs, be the best you can be.

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                • #9
                  As much as I wish I could answer that, I've been out for a decade, and haven't even been back contracting for a couple years while I'm doing college. Best answer I can give though, is it's better today than on January 20th...
                  We are not nation building again. We are killing terrorists.
                  The President

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                  • #10
                    Fully understand the Jan ref. LOL
                    Some ROE sucked for many back then but, luckily we were never questioned. If it was available it showed up quickly if/when we called. Not sure how I'd like (or take to) today's ROE
                    Get Busy Living or Get Busy Dying,...but,....Which Ever You Choose, Make A Difference,....


                    Sometimes doing the right thing is the wrong thing to many, but once you become a felon by your hand or theirs, be the best you can be.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Redmanss View Post
                      You'd still recognize the commonly used insert/extract methods. At its core, ground combat changed with weapons employed more than tactics.

                      GPS grid locations are a way of life for present day military, almost always mandated for supporting arms, but the core fundamentals are still taught, just not practiced nearly as much as they used to be.
                      During Bush's and Obama's administrations Marine infantry was still exclusively training with the older methods at least my unit was. I didn't even see a GPS while working unless I was in another country. Just maps and lensatics. The compasses were always just for frames of reference. We would cross section and move accordingly.

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