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  • Viet Nam Model 70's

    l read that model 70's in Viet Nam were used with either a Unertl scope or a 3-9 scope. The writer didn't specify what make of 3-9 scope that was. I was wondering if anyone knew the answer to that? Were they the Redfields? Or was it a different model
    thanks
    Kevin
    Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups, alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat.

  • #2
    It was a Japanese manufactured 3-9x40 riflescope, that apparently had Marine on it. Ed Kugler in his book, specifically mentions using the Model 70 with this scope.

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    • #3
      I thought it was a Redfield scope.

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      • #4
        There were also the cam-actuated Leatherwood ART scopes, which were about 3 - 9.... Technically I think 2.5 - 10. Made their appearance late in the conflict.

        I think there was also some stuff purchased at various PX's around VN.... and in USA. And put to good use whether the S4's liked it or not. But there are some folks here who know more firsthand... and I am sure they will chime in.

        Also, Satcong... there were Rediield 3 x 9's that were modified to match M118 ammo. I think. But I am going from memory here.

        Cheers,

        Sirhr
        Quidvis recte factum quamvis humile praeclarum

        Oderint dum metuant

        "You went full nerd with that reference." Thanks, I will wear that as a badge of honor!

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        • #5
          The Winchester M70 with Unertl 8X scope was used early in the Vietnam conflict by all branches but never officially adopted as a sniper rifle. Later, the Remington 700 with 3x9 green anodized scope with accu-range reticle was officially adopted. Here is my Winchester M70 with redfield 3x9 scope.

          Rick Jones
          MAJ, SF (Ret)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Flint62a1 View Post
            l read that model 70's in Viet Nam were used with either a Unertl scope or a 3-9 scope. The writer didn't specify what make of 3-9 scope that was. I was wondering if anyone knew the answer to that? Were they the Redfields? Or was it a different model
            thanks
            Kevin
            The sniper variants of the M70 used the 8x Unertl scopes.

            The sporter M70's didn't use the Unertl.

            Both Chandler and Senich say that the Marines would purchase commercial scopes that were marked "Marine" and use those on their sporter M70's. These scopes were supposedly made in Japan and are 3-9x, but that's about all the known information on them. Unfortunately, no one really has any solid evidence that points to an exact manufacture of the "Marine" scope. If you find one, please let us know!

            There is also a well known photo of a soldier crossing a stream in Vietnam and he's holding a M70 sporter with a scope on it. I forget what scope it is, guys on other forums have picked the photo apart over the past decade. Looks like an M84 or something similar. Here's the photo:



            As far as I can tell, the Redfield greenies from the M40's were never used on the M70's. However, it's war and absolutely anything can happen, so I don't doubt that this combo may have been used by some Marine at some point. Along these lines, I decided to see what a M70 and Redfield greenie combo would look like, this is what I came up with:





            From the known USMC M70 serial number list in Death From Afar vol. 1:

            Last edited by USMCSGT0331; 05-18-2017, 12:33 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by USMCSGT0331 View Post






              That dude is burdened.

              He took the concept of "butt pack" to the limit.

              A hard Corps Hunter. I hope he is well and enjoying his grandkids.
              "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

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              • #8
                I can understand how the pic got ripped apart. First, sniper rifle AND radio. Radio carried outside the pack. The pack is a small ALICE (not buttpack) which still has a radio pouch in it. As do the mediums and large's (what I carried). In any case, that guy is going to go about 100 more meters before he gets a herniated disc.

                FWIW, the radio appears to be an AN-PRC-77. Also interesting is the rifle has a buttpad. Which only makes sense as they were available in the VN timeframe. My understanding though is the snipers used the original steel buttplate. Why?, that would hurt.
                Every shot serves a purpose, whether accurate or inaccurate. It will always tell you what you did, and did not do, right. Even if all you have is a fraction of a second to make it, learn from it. So the next one is even better.

                The pen is only mighty when it is backed by the sword.

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                • #9
                  I caught that it was an ALICE just kind of unorthodox to carry it that way. Im guessing he is on a long range patrol, probably moving only a short distance to cache the pack,than will move into hide with the only necessary tools - a radio and rifle. Or he is in an area of imminent contact and the intent will be to shed the ALICE and he needs to keep the important tools at hand - a radio and a rifle. Panning out there is probably a Lt ahead or behind him.

                  Marine Rec offices had the Win 70 sporters. Marines could sign them out for hunting or any lawful purpose. They would have been in full civie config to include the ramped front sight rear buckhorns and the rubber pad. Shooting VC/NVA would be a lawful purpose. Whether or not the "rec" guns made it into the field would be better answered by others.

                  Always interesting to see the things that were carried.
                  Last edited by pmclaine; 05-19-2017, 01:50 PM.
                  "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Kugler said they had a choice of rifles a heavy model 70 with either the Unertl or a 3-9 scope. He chose the 3-9, this was in 66, they also had M1sniper rifles. On the cover is a photo of him with the rifle, it looks like the stock has a wide forend and it's definitely the 3-9 scope on it.
                    Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups, alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat.

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                    • #11
                      I was an RTO for awhile when I came off the 60 crew. That 77 is on a 77 harness, so you can't carry both. I think this guy has the right idea, as I did something similar (BTW, on my 3rd back surgery). You cannot maneuver with an Alice on, especially with a PRC77, kic19, spare batteries, ammo and all your other shit. If shit kicks off, that dude is gonna cut the ruck off and get on with his killin'.
                      Happiness is One Ragged Hole, or A Bucket of Fried Chicken ;-)

                      Chris Hayes
                      Nashville, TN

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                      • #12
                        I was an RTO (Plt) for a while too. Unless we were on a special operation, I never got to carry the prick77 on the dedicated carry paci. Even so, we attatched a regular buttpack up tight under the radio if we needed to carry extra stuff. Otherwise, note my avatar, That's how I always carried the radio. And, it was waterproofed, I noticed his was not.

                        On a happy note, You could always get Monday Night Football with a prick77. Down in Ft. Stweart, it was 6565.
                        Every shot serves a purpose, whether accurate or inaccurate. It will always tell you what you did, and did not do, right. Even if all you have is a fraction of a second to make it, learn from it. So the next one is even better.

                        The pen is only mighty when it is backed by the sword.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I qualified shipboard enroute to 'Nam on the AN/PRC-25, and carried it on several night patrols out of the Northern Perimeter at Dong Ha in 1967. Looked partly the same as the photo in question, except I was probably good foot taller then the subject.

                          And...

                          If I had carried a bolt rifle, that hokey pack arrangement, and the Prick-25, I would probably have instantly become a candidate for a Section-8. IMHO, that is a staged photo for consumption by the home front.

                          When I carried the Prick-25, I shelved my M-14, and carried a .45; standard procedure in my Unit. I radio Op was supposed to be too busy with commo to concentrate of rifle marksmanship. One hand for the 45, the other for the handset.

                          Greg
                          Last edited by Greg Langelius *; 05-20-2017, 10:54 AM.
                          Life is more interesting when one keeps a neurotic cat... (Oops, make that two cats...), (Oops, add two Jack Russels...) Greg Langelius

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