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  • So... I need one like I need a hole in the head... But... opinions?

    So a handful of these have come on the market... these are USMC Recon/Special Ops 1911's.



    They are USMC marked. M45A1 Colt's. $1350.

    I can't imagine that these aren't a good investment. U.S. stamped. NM barrels. CQBP spec. Carried by USMC Spec. ops. in Afghanistan.

    This has to be a pistol worth owning...

    Cheers,

    Sirhr

    Quidvis recte factum quamvis humile praeclarum

    Oderint dum metuant

    "You went full nerd with that reference." Thanks, I will wear that as a badge of honor!

  • #2
    Well, since half of them on the site sold while I was typing the post here on SH... I jumped in and bought one. I don't think I'll regret it, 1911 snob that I am!

    Cheers,

    Sirhr
    Last edited by sirhrmechanic; 03-19-2017, 08:51 PM.
    Quidvis recte factum quamvis humile praeclarum

    Oderint dum metuant

    "You went full nerd with that reference." Thanks, I will wear that as a badge of honor!

    Comment


    • #3
      It might or might not be a good investment, but I want to shoot it! Is that wrong?

      Comment


      • #4
        No... I think that's the spirit!

        Colt sells these as 'civilian' models, not U.S. marked, not USMC marked... for about $1600. There are a bunch of CQBP's on Gunbroker. But this comes with a DoD release letter and is all authentic...

        About 10 years ago, I had a chance to buy one of the ex USMC Barrets from Desert Storm. $10K I thought that 2500 was just too much of a premium (over price of a new one) for an ex USMC with a letter. Well, I wish I had one now, because if you can find one, they are about $20k. Sort of like authentic M40's and the like. Provenance is everything.

        What the heck... and I won't feel bad about shooting it!

        If any of you are Gunbroker Gold members (or you can join gold 'on the spot' there are 22 of them left. My guess is they'll be gone in an hour.

        http://www.gunbroker.com/Item/631174121

        Cheers,

        Sirhr
        Quidvis recte factum quamvis humile praeclarum

        Oderint dum metuant

        "You went full nerd with that reference." Thanks, I will wear that as a badge of honor!

        Comment


        • #5
          I think you made a great purchase! Completely jealous right now. And to think the seller is only 30 minutes from me. Wish I could get over there just to fondle a few.
          Facebook: Pennsylvania Precision Rifle Shooters

          Comment


          • #6
            I have a safe full of hole-in-the-head. go for it and don't look back.
            Do the right thing, regardless of the cost.

            Comment


            • #7
              You did well sirh! You 1911 snob, you. In this case it's merely just being in the right place at the right time. Getting on the bandwagon while the parade is still in town is the right thing to do. Look at the M40 and to a lesser degree, the M24, and how much they bring now. Pretty much $300 Rem 700's that were used at a time and place that mattered. And, that's why they bring what they do.
              Every shot serves a purpose, whether accurate or inaccurate. It will always tell you what you did, and did not do, right. Even if all you have is a fraction of a second to make it, learn from it. So the next one is even better.

              The pen is only mighty when it is backed by the sword.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by lash View Post
                It might or might not be a good investment, but I want to shoot it! Is that wrong?
                Maybe something is wrong with me but, I don't ever kid myself when buying a new gun. The word investment never even enters my mind. Its not even within a 100 miles. I know that I'm going to use it for it intended purpose and things happen even when trying to take care of ones possessions. That gun sir, looks like someone already did that for you or its just a stock photo. So shoot on brother!!!!!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Great snag. And I've been on GB for at least 15 years, how I have I never heard of or been solicited for Gold? What is that and how does it work? I tried to get information on it thru the site and just got a blank page. As broke as I am the last thing I need is them sending me deals like this one. What's one more 1911 I may never get around to shooting?

                  EDIT: it took some navigating but I finally found the details on Gold. Thanks for making me aware of it. I wish I'd known about it back when I had the means to be irresponsible.
                  Last edited by bogeybrown; 03-19-2017, 11:25 PM.
                  I am The German's spirit animal

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well Sir H, I hope you are right, because thanks to you, I bought one. Hell, I might have bought two, still trying to figure that one out! While trying to buy one I encountered a myriad of error messages and after repeatedly trying, ended up with two. I've since contacted GB and the dealer to let them know I only want one.

                    Last edited by buffalowinter; 03-19-2017, 11:42 PM.
                    Rick Jones
                    MAJ, SF (Ret)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I don't understand the problem. If you want it, and can afford it why not. Life is too short to think back and wish you bought this or that.

                      I keep hearing the word "NEED". You don't need this or that. Why do you need this gun or that gun.

                      This is America. Slaves get what they NEED, freemen get what they WANT.

                      I have a man cave and a shop full of stuff that makes some shake their heads. I've bought some weird stuff over they years. I don't care what people like or what they figure I have no use or NEED for.

                      I don't live my life for others. I'm old, my kids are grown and doing well on their own. I die my wife (who is super supportive of my kinks) will get my pensions. She'll not have to wont for anything so I tend on living my remaining years buying what I want.

                      Being Army though it probably wont be a Marine pistol, but you can bet it will be something else. Some think I might have a hole in my head but at least I don't have holes (or empty spaces) in my gun safes.
                      Kraig Stuart
                      Distinguished Rifle Badge #1071
                      USAMU Sniper School, Oct '78

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I would never argue with that logic Kraig.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Damn, I don't know whether to curse you or thank you for posting this...


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well, Rick, as I am busy bidding on Schuetzens... and sooner or later I'll win one of those auctions... I just an glad to return the favor!



                            Cheers,

                            Sirhr
                            Quidvis recte factum quamvis humile praeclarum

                            Oderint dum metuant

                            "You went full nerd with that reference." Thanks, I will wear that as a badge of honor!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I know you didnt buy it for an investment but look what return stocks have done since they were first introduced.

                              Colt is going through a period of liquidation again. They have laid off the entire custom shop that makes the hand fitted civilian versions of these things. Some very talented smiths are looking for work. The one that was over at 1911.com headed the shop and gave all the inside scoop about what was the particulars of the MEU/SOC guns.

                              The mil guns are not as tightly fitted as the civilian guns nor would you want them to be.

                              The USMC had problems with the cerakote finish and these likely were traded in for the new finish guns. Im guessing along with the gunsmiths Colt is milking the cash that these guns will bring. Anyone that gets one is getting a good buy.
                              "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by buffalowinter View Post
                                Well Sir H, I hope you are right, because thanks to you, I bought one. Hell, I might have bought two, still trying to figure that one out! While trying to buy one I encountered a myriad of error messages and after repeatedly trying, ended up with two. I've since contacted GB and the dealer to let them know I only want one.
                                If they ship you two let me know Ill pay you for it and send you my FFLs license to ship on.
                                "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  PM

                                  There were two versions sold on civilian market by Colt, from what I have read. A full-up custom-shop job that was $3500 and was all hand-fitted. And the standard one that retailed for 1999, but market priced at 1600... and was identical to the MARSOC version. And was looser, as you said.

                                  I heard there were also some frame-cracking problems with pistols that got fired over 150K rounds. But that seems odd, as 1911's are pretty robust. Maybe its a +P ammo of some kind?

                                  Interesting about the Cerokote... my assumption was that the wear was likely caused by gritty gloves doing endless dry fire, clearing drills and lots of rounds on the ranges. After a pretty short time, gloves absorb enough grit and sand to be like sandpaper! And in dusty climates, so do the outsides of weapons. So I am not sure what coating could stand that kind of abrasion on a daily basis. Cero is reputed to be tough stuff... but constant abrasion is going to remove it, period.

                                  The USMC didn't trade them for new Colt's... they dropped the 1911 in Nov. 2016. Going with 9mm Glocks.... And I think that is after only 2 years in service. IIRC, the Colt's CQBP was adopted in 2014 and some 3500 were made and acquired by USMC. I suspect that there are a lot of PO'd Marines over that... then again, I loved my duty Glock .40's and they were reliable as gravity and accurate as all getup. And while I love collecting and shooting 1911's, I'd happily stake my life on a Glock any day. Though I would prefer a .40 or .10 or .45 vs. a 9mm.

                                  I will post a range report when it comes in. I want to compare it to my 'old reliable' Gold Cup National Match... Which is a hard pistol to beat!

                                  Cheers,

                                  Sirhr

                                  P.S. Kraig, your logic is indisputable. Need has nothing to do with it. I wanted it!



                                  Quidvis recte factum quamvis humile praeclarum

                                  Oderint dum metuant

                                  "You went full nerd with that reference." Thanks, I will wear that as a badge of honor!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by sirhrmechanic View Post
                                    PM

                                    There were two versions sold on civilian market by Colt, from what I have read. A full-up custom-shop job that was $3500 and was all hand-fitted. And the standard one that retailed for 1999, but market priced at 1600... and was identical to the MARSOC version. And was looser, as you said.

                                    I heard there were also some frame-cracking problems with pistols that got fired over 150K rounds. But that seems odd, as 1911's are pretty robust. Maybe its a +P ammo of some kind?

                                    Interesting about the Cerokote... my assumption was that the wear was likely caused by gritty gloves doing endless dry fire, clearing drills and lots of rounds on the ranges. After a pretty short time, gloves absorb enough grit and sand to be like sandpaper! And in dusty climates, so do the outsides of weapons. So I am not sure what coating could stand that kind of abrasion on a daily basis. Cero is reputed to be tough stuff... but constant abrasion is going to remove it, period.

                                    The USMC didn't trade them for new Colt's... they dropped the 1911 in Nov. 2016. Going with 9mm Glocks.... And I think that is after only 2 years in service. IIRC, the Colt's CQBP was adopted in 2014 and some 3500 were made and acquired by USMC. I suspect that there are a lot of PO'd Marines over that... then again, I loved my duty Glock .40's and they were reliable as gravity and accurate as all getup. And while I love collecting and shooting 1911's, I'd happily stake my life on a Glock any day. Though I would prefer a .40 or .10 or .45 vs. a 9mm.

                                    I will post a range report when it comes in. I want to compare it to my 'old reliable' Gold Cup National Match... Which is a hard pistol to beat!

                                    Cheers,

                                    Sirhr

                                    P.S. Kraig, your logic is indisputable. Need has nothing to do with it. I wanted it!


                                    They had some blue box versions and the full blown custom that came in a pelican style case. What I saw more of at the 1911Forum was the Pelican case custom. Not so many blue box guns.

                                    A year or three ago the USMC told Colt no more USMC on the slides. The USMC trademarked all their logos back about the time digicams were coming out and there are royalties to be paid for using their logos. The royalties go to morale and welfare funds for active/wounded Marines. As of 2017 any gear bearing the USMC logo must be made in USA. Im looking forward to getting a new P41 utility jacket once the made in the USA ones come out, probably the first ones since WWII to be made here. They make great barn, fishing, hiking coats....

                                    https://www.atthefrontshop.com/product_p/usujp41.htm

                                    or maybe a P42

                                    https://www.atthefrontshop.com/product_p/usujp42.htm

                                    1911s if they crack will usually be at the area of the slide lock/link pin. One reason to make sure the link is fitted correctly. In WWII the spot heat treated that area and others. I recall reading about the CQB there may also have been an issue with how the front slide serrations were cut creating a weak point just where the slide meets the dust cover and there is a thin area created by the front serrations.

                                    The cerakote guns were having issues and they came up with the browner decobond coating. A party at Badger Ord mentioned the cerakote was not just an external coating but they used it on internal surfaces and as it wore it gummed up the operation of the guns. The people using them didnt appreciate that. The external wear was not the issue as much as the internal wear/operation problems it created.

                                    I dont imagine the Marines are too upset as long as they got a gun that works. Im not a Glock fan but there is no denying the Glock works. As far as 9mm goes we are going full circle again. The new ammo is being touted as wonder ammo. My jobs has gone from 9mm to .40 and now sits at .45 but I am getting the vibes that 9mm and maybe something with the numbers 320 may be on the horizon.

                                    Please when you get the pistol do a tear down confirm what I have "heard".

                                    Here is a big thread I havent read all of but you new owners may find of interest....

                                    https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=468875
                                    "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by sandwarrior View Post
                                      You did well sirh! You 1911 snob, you. In this case it's merely just being in the right place at the right time. Getting on the bandwagon while the parade is still in town is the right thing to do. Look at the M40 and to a lesser degree, the M24, and how much they bring now. Pretty much $300 Rem 700's that were used at a time and place that mattered. And, that's why they bring what they do.
                                      i mean in all fairness...an M40 and M24 are not $300 Rem700s.....the cost of a "theatre used" M24 is more or less the same as the list price of a new M24...

                                      the M40s do have a little more mystique....and parts do demand a higher premium......im guessing because you cant just go out and buy an M40 like you can an M24.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by mcameron View Post

                                        i mean in all fairness...an M40 and M24 are not $300 Rem700s.....the cost of a "theatre used" M24 is more or less the same as the list price of a new M24...

                                        the M40s do have a little more mystique....and parts do demand a higher premium......im guessing because you cant just go out and buy an M40 like you can an M24.
                                        I think you missed the point, M24's and M40's are Remington 700's. It's the fact they were modified slightly and then served where they did, in the hands of those trained to make optimal use of them. The latter part is WHY they are so valuable. If you had read and understood my previous post, you would see you you took a portion of one of my sentences out of context.
                                        Every shot serves a purpose, whether accurate or inaccurate. It will always tell you what you did, and did not do, right. Even if all you have is a fraction of a second to make it, learn from it. So the next one is even better.

                                        The pen is only mighty when it is backed by the sword.

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          Originally posted by sandwarrior View Post

                                          I think you missed the point, M24's and M40's are Remington 700's. It's the fact they were modified slightly and then served where they did, in the hands of those trained to make optimal use of them. The latter part is WHY they are so valuable. If you had read and understood my previous post, you would see you you took a portion of one of my sentences out of context.
                                          i didnt miss any point......its not like the M24 and M40s are off the shelf 700s with new stocks.......they are completely custom built rifles...and they are priced accordingly.

                                          i can buy a theatre used M24 for around $2800........a BNIB M24 from remington also costs around $2500-2800

                                          ive never seen a theatre used M40A1 for sale.......however, i can buy a new one from GAP for $4000......

                                          now they arent priced that high because "the military uses them".....they are priced that high because they are custom rifles and thats what it costs to build them.



                                          now dont misunderstand me, im not denying that service used firearms arent valuable......there is a cool factor to them and people will pay for that( look at theatre used M40A1 stocks for example)......but only to degree.

                                          now regarding this handgun in question, the theatre used ones are selling for $1350.......which as stated, is about what a new one is going for (which is exactly what we see with the M24).....

                                          now i do see these holding their value, and probably increasing slightly in value...but not to astronomic margins.......which, correct me if im wrong, you were implying with your "$300 remington" comment.

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            Am I wrong or were some of the CMP M24 (or maybe M40?) rifles with a USMC and/or Army provenance selling a few months ago for something in the $10k to $20k range? I seem to recall that we had a thread in the Vintage Section on Scout where we were following some CMP rifles that were stratospheric in their selling prices on the civilian marksman auction site.

                                            I think Sand's point is that a used Remington action as a standalone is a pretty cheap item. Put the customization around it and, more importantly in the collector market, military and battlefield provenance around it, and the price goes up exponentially. The difference is not in the mechanicals... Remington actions are, for all intents and purposes, dirt cheap. So it's in the work done to them, a few new roll stamps... and often just a letter saying 'yes, this was issued to a snipery kind of guy.' Suddenly what would be just another deer rifle is a coveted collector piece.

                                            As I mentioned above, the handful of ex USMC M82's from Desert Storm that got released (I think there were 20 of them)... now sell for $20K plus if you can find one. A few years ago, they were half that and, at the time, still $2500 more than a NIB Barrett. And right now, 'new' M82's are currently not even selling for list price... as demand has dropped off since November.

                                            Similarly, look at WW2 pieces with letters or battlefield 'bring back' paperwork. Amazing the difference in price on the collector or auction market.

                                            Battlefield provenance, whether on an M82, a Garand or an M40 (or a MARSOC) ... just gets collectors excited these days.

                                            But to your post, Cameron, if there are M24's with field provenance out there for $2800... , I think that's a very realistic price... if not somewhat cheap (assuming they were not totally ragged out.) Just because the cost of replicating one of those rifles, even without military lineage, would be at least that.

                                            Cheers,

                                            Sirhr

                                            Quidvis recte factum quamvis humile praeclarum

                                            Oderint dum metuant

                                            "You went full nerd with that reference." Thanks, I will wear that as a badge of honor!

                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              There was one CMP M40 that went for a price in the $35K range. That didnt include a greenie scope and it may have been an Air Force Rifle. Nothing against flyboys but the USMC stuff generally gets a premium.




                                              "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                Completed CMP auction for an M40 Barreled action only....$15,756.99...and this was was for a USAF gun with an unknown barrel (could be a plus or could be a minus, price wise)...so 15K for an action.
                                                M40 Sniper Rifle Barreled Action 6257239
                                                Listing # 3296
                                                Bidder or Seller? Sign in for your status.
                                                Listing Format: Auction
                                                Current price : $15,756.99
                                                Starting bid: $1.00
                                                # of bids: 67
                                                Closes: Auction is closed
                                                Location: Alabama, United States
                                                Started: 12/21/2015
                                                Ended: 1/2/2016 12:16:30 AM
                                                Seller: cmp4
                                                View this user's other listings
                                                High Bidder(s): CMPUser9910
                                                M40 Sniper Rifle Barreled Action 6257239
                                                M40 Sniper rifle Barreled action. This barreled action is serial number 6257239, and may have been an USAF rifle.
                                                Short action Remington M700, clip slotted and US marked. This barreled action appears to have been rebarrelled since the barrel does not have the typical Remington proof marks/stamps on the left side of the barrel, and has a recessed crown. ME=1. Barrel is chambered for 7.62x51mm NATO. Bolt is serialized to the action, and has good headspace.
                                                This barreled action is in very nice condition with an even green parkerized finish. This barreled action was received from DOD with a lot of other miscellaneous rifles.
                                                This barreled action would be a great basis for an M40 build. Please see all pictures for details before bidding.

                                                See CMPís other current Bolt Action auctions


                                                Last edited by buffalowinter; 03-21-2017, 08:32 PM.
                                                Rick Jones
                                                MAJ, SF (Ret)

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  There are a few more in the CMP archives. One was in a paper wrap with a scope of some sort but it wasnt a green redfield. They only opened it enough to read the serial number. The $35K rilfe had a stock with it. The USMC 40's are in a specific 6 digit range plus or minus 200 some odd thousand. I think a lot of the CMP guns are 7 digit. The army also has a few M40 rifles.

                                                  The M40 was built at Remington. It probably didnt undergo any truing but the receiver was cut for bullet relief at the front bridge and it was clip slotted and had a thumb relief at the rear. Remington followed a blue print for the receiver work.

                                                  The M40A1 was built at RTE/PWS on Quantico. The first ones were made using M40 receivers (6 digit) and later C and E prefix receiver replaced the out of service 6 digits. Most of the receiver work was already done on the recycled M40s The USMC re-engineered the Winchester Model 70 trigger guard and floor plate (Remington wouldnt supply a metal trigger guard, if they had they probably would have built the whole rifle). They trued up the receivers, modified the lug with a taper, welded the mag box to the reciever, spun up and crowned the Atkinsson, Hart, Schneider Barrels, Cut a notch in the Remington trigger to fit with the Model 70 BM, and initially the stocks they got from McMillan were not inletted at all so the USMC did the inletting on the fibergalss smear stocks. A member at the M40 Forum has one of those NOS smears and its a neat piece to see.

                                                  Buffalo I replied to your visitor message, Too bad I didnt get in touch earlier. Thank you for replying to me.
                                                  "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

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