Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Home defense ?

Collapse

728 Ad Widget

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Home defense ?

    I have an 870 for hunting, but am thinking about getting a sawed off shottie for home defense. Any suggestions on a good make/model for that purpose?

  • #2
    An 870 is hard to beat.

    Comment


    • #3
      An 18" 12g 870 bbl is only $140.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
      Always remember rule number one!
      HMCS(SW/AW)(RET)

      Comment


      • #4
        I will preface that I am not an expert, but I have had numerous people, that I trust and respect, tell me the following.

        If you want a shotgun for home defense, get a semi auto. The whole "easy to unjam" part of a pump action shotgun is only for people well trained in thier use. Most folks are more likely to short stroke a pump action shotgun, under stress, than a semi auto shotgun is to jam. Also that the old "scare them off with the pump of a shotgun" is machismo. If you're going to lethal force, the first thing they should hear, should be a weapon firing. Go semi auto, and try different rounds at the range, to find a load the shotgun feeds well.

        And then following that, don't use a shotgun, get a rifle. An AR filled with 28-30 rounds of hunting round 5.56 is more controllable, accurate, and reliable than any shotgun. Plus you get to pull the trigger 30 times, instead of what's usually a max of 7.

        Shotguns really don't have much spread at the distances you'll find inside a home. So unless you have a serious issue with needing to avoid over penetrating into your kid's bedroom or something, get an AR.
        Last edited by Strikerkc; 03-16-2017, 11:24 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          There's more reasons to use a shotgun than the small pattern you get within home distances. The main one being the massive damage a load of buckshot does at close range. They're also easy to learn to get quick hits because they point well. The main downside to a shotgun vs a carbine in 223 is over penetration from the shotgun that's loaded with a proper defensive load (buckshot or slug).

          Comment


          • #6
            Can you define "home defense". If you're talking about holding off a mob of angry folks from your property then an AR 15 is what you want. If you're talking about protecting yourself at night from an armed burgler then you may want to consider a handgun. Every time the latter comes up a shot gun is usually the first thing on people's tongue but have you ever tried to clear your house with s shotgun on the dark? A good handgun of your choice will go a long way and accomplish what you needvv


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
            "Never start an argument with a man who can end you from another zip code"

            Comment


            • #7
              As Darkside-Six said, a LOT depends on your idea of home defense and your individual home.
              I am The German's spirit animal

              Comment


              • #8
                I prefer a pistol for home defense . If you're going outside to check the perimeter, then I'd grab the shotty/carbine; both should have a flashlight and/or night sights.


                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                Comment


                • #9
                  Part of indoor home defense, especially at night is the dulling of one's alertness, coordination and orientation. That's why I originally posited the query about a shotgun. A short barreled weapon with out the need to be right on COM for aiming at an intruder would seem to favor the scatter pattern of a shotgun. Type of choke makes a big difference. However, after further thought I have settled on a 5.7. High mag capacity, option of going with a PS90 and it's demonstrated lethality makes a good combo + it's something my wife could easily handle should she need to get involved.. Likewise, the ability to use the weapon one handed (at my age, arthritis in my wrists is a problem) is a plus. And in case one questions the effectiveness of the 5.7, read this from a 2014 article in Defensive Carry:

                  The FN 5.7 pistol is constantly maligned or underestimated in many gun forums and articles, often by people who have never experienced shooting the pistol. Subjective comparisons with the .22 magnum or categorization as a sub-par .223 round create confusion about the effectiveness of the FN 5.7.

                  Enough time has passed after the terrorist attack at Ft. Hood. The shooter, Nidal Malik Hassan, has been arrested, tried and sentenced. The media has moved on. Now we can begin to analyze the impact of the FN 5.7 and address the question of lethality.

                  Using SS192 and SS197SR ammunition (common commercial 5.7x28 ammo), several 20-30 roundmagazines and an FN 5.7 (shooter also had a .357 revolver but did not use it), Hassan killed 13 and wounded 32 people.

                  Many armchair ballistics expert criticized this result as proof that the FN 5.7 platform is not lethal enough because of the proportion of the fatalities to the wounded. Others have proposed that had Hassan use another type of pistol, 9mm or .45, there would have been more fatalities.

                  If you look at this Wikipedia link and look at the list of casualties, one can come to a very eye-opening conclusion.
                  Fort Hood shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                  1. 11 people were shot center-of-mass (COM), one was shot in the stomach and one was shot in the head. All 13 died. All 11 victims who were shot COM did not survive.
                  2. 3 of the 13 people who died, tried to charge Hassan, but he stopped them with COM shots.
                  3. The 32 people who were wounded were hit in the arms, legs, hips and shoulders. None of the wounded survivors were shot COM.

                  The following conclusions can be drawn:
                  1. The FN 5.7 is a very lethal round CQB because all 11 victims who were shot COM died. No survivors for those hit COM.
                  2. The FN 5.7 is a real stopper, because 3 tried to charge Hassan at close range and were stopped by COM shots.
                  3. One of the fatalities was shot in the stomach, and died. The fragmentation of the SS197R roundcan create a hail of metal shards that can cause serious internal organ damage and bleeding in the stomach.
                  4. None of the 32 people who were hit in the extremities, hips and shoulders were able to muster a counter-attack because the FN 5.7 must have shattered or broken bones. The high rate of wounded vicitms to fatalities was the direct result of the shooting ability of Hassan (or lack thereof), and not because the 5.7x28 round is not lethal.
                  5. Sgt. Kimberly Munley (base civilian police), one of the first responders, was immediately disabled with 5.7x28 bullet shrapnels to her wrist and a second 5.7x28 bullet broke her femur. The light 5.7x28 commercial ammo showed that it can shatter large bones due to its velocity
                  6. According to medical personnel, there was so much blood in the room that it was difficult to get to the victims because the floor became very slippery. One can conclude that the commercial 5.7x28 rounds can fragment or tumble, causing immense blood loss.
                  7. It took five bullets (which I assume was a 9 mm) from Sgt Mark Todd to stop Hasan. And he survived his wounds (no available info on where he was hit, except that one of the bullets paralyzed Hasan).

                  In conclusion:
                  1. The FN 5.7 is definitely a very lethal round. 100% fatality for COM shots.
                  2. The FN 5.7 is a man-stopper. Three military men tried to charge Hasan, and all three were stopped.
                  3. The FN 5.7 is a very incapacitating round, if extremities are hit, because it is powerful enough to break the femur (which is the largest bone in the body)
                  4. The fragmentation or tumbling effect of commercial ammo can cause a lot of blood loss.

                  The FN 5.7 is a very effective weapon. I am duly impressed by the comment above about NONE of the people hit with the 5.7 round (but not killed) were unable to continue an attack.

                  Not looking to start another endless debate about the superiority of one caliber over another - just stating my reasons for my choice.


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Claymore

                    Fuck, the sword version too.
                    10. Panzerdivision - 23. Gebirgsjšger 'Bayern'
                    Hammelburg 1999
                    {KFOR} Veteran 1999 - 2001
                    TF 51/236 Afghanistan

                    MRAD Masterrace
                    Chairman, 'Go Be Poor Somewhere Else' Society

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by prairiefire View Post
                      Part of indoor home defense, especially at night is the dulling of one's alertness, coordination and orientation. That's why I originally posited the query about a shotgun. A short barreled weapon with out the need to be right on COM for aiming at an intruder would seem to favor the scatter pattern of a shotgun. Type of choke makes a big difference. However, after further thought I have settled on a 5.7. High mag capacity, option of going with a PS90 and it's demonstrated lethality makes a good combo + it's something my wife could easily handle should she need to get involved.. Likewise, the ability to use the weapon one handed (at my age, arthritis in my wrists is a problem) is a plus. And in case one questions the effectiveness of the 5.7, read this from a 2014 article in Defensive Carry:

                      The FN 5.7 pistol is constantly maligned or underestimated in many gun forums and articles, often by people who have never experienced shooting the pistol. Subjective comparisons with the .22 magnum or categorization as a sub-par .223 round create confusion about the effectiveness of the FN 5.7.

                      Enough time has passed after the terrorist attack at Ft. Hood. The shooter, Nidal Malik Hassan, has been arrested, tried and sentenced. The media has moved on. Now we can begin to analyze the impact of the FN 5.7 and address the question of lethality.

                      Using SS192 and SS197SR ammunition (common commercial 5.7x28 ammo), several 20-30 roundmagazines and an FN 5.7 (shooter also had a .357 revolver but did not use it), Hassan killed 13 and wounded 32 people.

                      Many armchair ballistics expert criticized this result as proof that the FN 5.7 platform is not lethal enough because of the proportion of the fatalities to the wounded. Others have proposed that had Hassan use another type of pistol, 9mm or .45, there would have been more fatalities.

                      If you look at this Wikipedia link and look at the list of casualties, one can come to a very eye-opening conclusion.
                      Fort Hood shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                      1. 11 people were shot center-of-mass (COM), one was shot in the stomach and one was shot in the head. All 13 died. All 11 victims who were shot COM did not survive.
                      2. 3 of the 13 people who died, tried to charge Hassan, but he stopped them with COM shots.
                      3. The 32 people who were wounded were hit in the arms, legs, hips and shoulders. None of the wounded survivors were shot COM.

                      The following conclusions can be drawn:
                      1. The FN 5.7 is a very lethal round CQB because all 11 victims who were shot COM died. No survivors for those hit COM.
                      2. The FN 5.7 is a real stopper, because 3 tried to charge Hassan at close range and were stopped by COM shots.
                      3. One of the fatalities was shot in the stomach, and died. The fragmentation of the SS197R roundcan create a hail of metal shards that can cause serious internal organ damage and bleeding in the stomach.
                      4. None of the 32 people who were hit in the extremities, hips and shoulders were able to muster a counter-attack because the FN 5.7 must have shattered or broken bones. The high rate of wounded vicitms to fatalities was the direct result of the shooting ability of Hassan (or lack thereof), and not because the 5.7x28 round is not lethal.
                      5. Sgt. Kimberly Munley (base civilian police), one of the first responders, was immediately disabled with 5.7x28 bullet shrapnels to her wrist and a second 5.7x28 bullet broke her femur. The light 5.7x28 commercial ammo showed that it can shatter large bones due to its velocity
                      6. According to medical personnel, there was so much blood in the room that it was difficult to get to the victims because the floor became very slippery. One can conclude that the commercial 5.7x28 rounds can fragment or tumble, causing immense blood loss.
                      7. It took five bullets (which I assume was a 9 mm) from Sgt Mark Todd to stop Hasan. And he survived his wounds (no available info on where he was hit, except that one of the bullets paralyzed Hasan).

                      In conclusion:
                      1. The FN 5.7 is definitely a very lethal round. 100% fatality for COM shots.
                      2. The FN 5.7 is a man-stopper. Three military men tried to charge Hasan, and all three were stopped.
                      3. The FN 5.7 is a very incapacitating round, if extremities are hit, because it is powerful enough to break the femur (which is the largest bone in the body)
                      4. The fragmentation or tumbling effect of commercial ammo can cause a lot of blood loss.

                      The FN 5.7 is a very effective weapon. I am duly impressed by the comment above about NONE of the people hit with the 5.7 round (but not killed) were unable to continue an attack.

                      Not looking to start another endless debate about the superiority of one caliber over another - just stating my reasons for my choice.

                      Very interesting info. Thank you. Being behind enemy lines I've never paid much attention to the 5.7 as I would be limited to ten round mags. But this is certainly food for thought.
                      Please don't confuse me with someone else. I am not Hide member "Eric Cartman" or another member that incorporates "Cartman" into their name. I am, and have always been, just "Cartman".

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The biggest thing that held me off of the 5.7 was when the price of ammo became downright crazy. It's still a bit pricey for me, but it seems to be coming down a bit.
                        I am The German's spirit animal

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It is pricey compared to many other calibers - Palmetto Armory State has frequent weekend deals where they sell it for $17.99 for a box of 50. Not something that I would choose to shoot thousands of rounds - but not horrible like feeding a 338 lapua or a 50 cal!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'll admit to not actively tracking deals on it, bc I don't own one. But I've typically seen it in the $25 a box realm. At $18 a box it gets a bit more approachable, more in line with retail pricing on 5.56
                            I am The German's spirit animal

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Man it looks a little overthought. I have plenty of goodies but the wife and kids are more familiar with the 870 and a Smith and Wesson 357 I have always at the ready. Simple thoughtless effective.


                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
                              Always remember rule number one!
                              HMCS(SW/AW)(RET)

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Mossberg defender in .410.
                                The new defensive rounds, geared to the handgun crowd are excellent stoppers and quite devastating.
                                The advantage here is that the relatively light recoiling .410 is much easier to handle in a shorty shotgun, it is also significantly quieter.
                                A 2.5" shell has three 000 buckshot, each one is .36 caliber, the 3" has four.
                                That is a serious payload and will kill the fuck out of stuff, while being far easier to manage.
                                Friend...
                                Even if you will make mischief itself in trousers - it not interestingly me...

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Go to for home would be a Springfield XD 45 . Shoot it , compete a little with it and carry it . It is what I am most comfortable with .

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I prefer a pistol with a light for home defense

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      You will default to your lowest level of training. Use whatever is second nature to you and you don't have to think about.

                                      A shotgun gun isn't the best choice against multiple attackers but it's better than a weapon you have to think about how to use in a crisis situation.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        eh....i really dont think there is any reason to over think this......find a gun in an effective caliber....and that is reasonably compact.....and easy to use.

                                        ive got a 1911..a g17...a j frame..a mossberg 500...and a wasr 10, all accessible in seconds...so which do i use for HD?......which ever one i happen to grab first.....im half way competent with all of them....

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          .458 socom SBR works for me

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            I prefer pistol with light and a an ar pistol with can close...but the only real sawed off I can think of without going through extra sbs hassle is the mossberg shockwave or gatekeeper. Going to be a handful but in really short range shoul be possible

                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              Originally posted by Darkside-Six View Post
                                              Can you define "home defense". If you're talking about holding off a mob of angry folks from your property then an AR 15 is what you want. If you're talking about protecting yourself at night from an armed burgler then you may want to consider a handgun. Every time the latter comes up a shot gun is usually the first thing on people's tongue but have you ever tried to clear your house with s shotgun on the dark? A good handgun of your choice will go a long way and accomplish what you needvv


                                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                                              So True!

                                              I have a 8" 300blk AR for "home defense" which is great, if the dummy charges my bedroom. Otherwise, it is impossible to move around a 90 degree corner with it shouldered. Pistol is my choice. Plus it is far more accessible for me.

                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                I have long held that 20ga semis (mine are an 11-87 and a Charles Daly) loaded with buck loads (20+ #4 Buck pellets) are like firing off an entire 20rd mag of .223 in one whack indoors.

                                                I still do, but running a shorter barrel makes it more like a 20rd mag of 22Mag. Still respectable by my estimate.

                                                Problem, is, they don't get much spread. I have fired the same load with a rifled choke tube, and the spread is far more obvious. Not much good outdoors, but will sweep an entire hallway with one shot indoors. Maybe that floats your boat, it does mine. Repeat if/as needed; may provide some lethality options, dunno, never had to find out..

                                                Finally got to a state where they don't treat handgun owners as high potential felons. I have the Ruger American Pistol 9mm Pro, mounting a Crimson Trace green rail laser. Is the bees' knees. My wife's S&W M&P 9 Shield has the CT red laser guard. That way we don't get our lasers crossed.

                                                Greg
                                                Last edited by Greg Langelius *; 04-27-2017, 03:30 PM.
                                                Life is more interesting when one keeps a neurotic cat... (Oops, make that two cats...), (Oops, add two Jack Russels...) Greg Langelius

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  looks like a set up question to me, but throw a duckbill on an 870 and clean house bitches.
                                                  NRA LIFE MEMBER
                                                  USMC VETERAN

                                                  Comment

                                                  Working...
                                                  X