Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Eley Lot testing results

Collapse

728 Ad Widget

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Eley Lot testing results


    Eley was at the Olympic Training Center yesterday doing lot testing on customer rifles. I took my Remington 40X to them and had them run the test with Eley Edge. The offered Tenex, but I knew I couldn't afford a case of that stuff.

    Like everyone else, I'd heard that individual guns are particular about ammo, even down to the lot level. Up until yesterday, I'd not had a chance to see the results in person.

    Not everyone is going to want to wade through all the data, so here's the bottom line. The worst lots of Eley Edge laid down groups of just under an inch, 0.994". The best lot was MUCH better coming in at 0.6".

    Testing was accomplished by shooting 1 group of 10 shots each. We tested 11 lots of ammo. At the end of that, we picked the 6 most promising lots and fired two more 10 round groups. All shooting was in the test jig at 50m.

    This page and the next show composite groups consisting of all 30 shots tested of each lot that we liked. The group size is in the upper right corner of the target image. It's in mm, edge to edge.




    The next two pages show the results of each individual group of 10. The lots with only one group are the ones we weeded out initially.





    So, the worst group (only 10 rounds) was 30.8mm outside to outside. The best group (30 shots) was 20.8mm. Quite a difference.

    I ended up picking the circled lot, #336. If you go look at the individual groups, you can see that the first 28 shots were more like 17mm. The two that fell out of group on the last set were the last two shots fired. I'm not sure that means anything, but I wish we'd quit 2 shots sooner!

    Oh, here's a pic of the test fixture. I can't get it to display correctly.



    As a follow up, my plan is to go shoot the ammo when it arrives and see if I can get close to the results of the jig. After that, I'll take it to 100y indoors and see if the group size doubles as expected.

  • #2
    Tim,

    Many thanks for the post. I've often read that 22LR accuracy changes from lot to lot but have never seen a true comparison.

    Of course, now I wish I could do a similar test with my rifle.

    Cheers,
    Richard
    [Discussing the concerns some governments had of arming citizens.] "If they had considered this, they would have been convinced that tyranny and usurpation are not a result of arming the citizens, but of leading a government weakly, and that while a state is well led, it has nothing to fear from its subjects' arms."

    -- Niccolo Machiavelli, "The Art of War"

    NRA Life
    Varmint Hunters Assoc.
    USPSA

    Comment


    • #3
      You should take that same rifle and send it to the Lapua test center. I'd love to see how much better the lapua shot. (because I bet it would)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by orkan View Post
        You should take that same rifle and send it to the Lapua test center. I'd love to see how much better the lapua shot. (because I bet it would)
        You really think that the lapua center x would be that much better than the eley edge? Keeping price points in mind and not bumping up to midas as I bet there is a lot of match or tenex that would shoot better too.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by orkan View Post
          You should take that same rifle and send it to the Lapua test center. I'd love to see how much better the lapua shot. (because I bet it would)
          Maybe someday. You have to commit to at least 1/2 a case of ammo to do the Eley test. I ended up buying a full case of 5,000. Gonna take me a little time to shoot it all up.

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes, I really truly do think that center X would shoot significantly better than eley edge in that rifle. I bet it would shoot better than eley match too.

            Once upon a time, I was convinced that eley was just the end all in precise ammo for my 22lr's. As it stands right now, every lot of Lapua Center X I have tested in the last 2 years has shot better than every single lot of eley match I've tested... and this has held true in every single rifle I own. Eley edge, hasn't even been in the running. I tested 8 lots of it about a year ago in 5 rifles and I might as well have been shooting CCI SV for as well as it shot. I've revisited eley edge and match a few times since. I still grab some tennex once in a while too. Though I'm quickly tiring of that and will probably wait a few years before I try it again... since it has proven completely pointless.

            RWS R50 as well as Lapua Center-X and Midas+ have all but removed Eley from my vocabulary. I recently ordered 6 bricks of R50 for lot testing. I fired 100rnds of each lot number for record through 5 rifles. Twenty individual 5 shot groups. Of the six lots, 2 were not real good, 3 were pretty standard good shooting lots, but one was quite good. The good lots were good in each rifle, as were the bad lots. The best lot of eley match I've had in the last 5 years still shoots worse than the 2 bad lots of R50 I just got, and shoots worse than every lot of center x I've had in the last 2-3 years. Point in fact, only ONE lot of tennex I currently have shoots as good as the center X I have.

            It could be that all of my anschutz's, all of my martini's, and all of my 40X's just don't like eley ammo. ... or it could be that Eley has been shipping some garbage ammo to the states in recent years and people are finally tired enough of it to speak up. It's not just a few bad lots and it's not just a couple of us experiencing this. The general consumer is too far down the feed trough to get the good lots, if they are actually even shipping any of the good lots over here. I know for a fact that certain distributors here in the states pick through the lots before stuff hits the shelves in many instances.

            Do your own testing, or have someone else do it if you don't want to. The truth will be known no other way. Heck, buy a brick of center x to try out yourself. It isn't like it's going to be hard for you to shoot better than 3/4" at 50yds (your best lot test in the tunnel) and see if a different ammo would do better out in the world.

            For me, I've done the work and spent thousands of dollars... and Eley isn't going to get any more of my money for quite a while.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by orkan View Post
              It isn't like it's going to be hard for you to shoot better than 3/4" at 50yds (your best lot test in the tunnel) and see if a different ammo would do better out in the world.

              .
              Just so we are all comparing apples to apples. The numbers posted on the test sheets are edge to edge of group. Most of us here use center to center when we talk about group size in MOA. Since the bullets are 5.6mm the best 10 shot group was .38 inches at 54 yards. His best 30 shot group was just under .6 inches at 54 yards.
              Last edited by stevenc23; 04-18-2017, 08:08 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'll have to grab some boxes to try next once I finish my two bricks of match. Not many at my club shoot lapua, RWS has a decent showing though. Tenex still rules the roost. I sure hope theyll shoot better at a lower price point.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Were there any cleaning processes or timings between shots on these test in order to try to achieve as equal a platform as possible with each lot?
                  I have timed between rounds and have even played around with gently blowing residual smoke from the barrel to see if groups would tighten. Some of my best groups I ever were shot with timed equal cooling between shots and carefully purging the smoke.

                  I have never shot Eley, but the way Center-X shoots for me, there's really no reason to.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Orkan,

                    What chambers do you have in those rifles? I agree on Center-X being damn good. Jelrod found that it shot well in my 40X convert rifle and I've concurred with two different lots. I have a bunch of Eley ammo to try, just haven't had a chance to do an indoor range time where I would trust the results to be able to discriminate effectively.
                    I'll stop buying black rifles when my wife stops buying black shoes.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tucker301 View Post
                      Were there any cleaning processes or timings between shots on these test in order to try to achieve as equal a platform as possible with each lot?
                      I have timed between rounds and have even played around with gently blowing residual smoke from the barrel to see if groups would tighten. Some of my best groups I ever were shot with timed equal cooling between shots and carefully purging the smoke.

                      I have never shot Eley, but the way Center-X shoots for me, there's really no reason to.
                      From the breach or muzzle end?

                      Lot to lot shouldn't matter if the lube/coating is consistent? I definitely agree that different types of ammo with different lubes will cause a transition time.
                      I'll stop buying black rifles when my wife stops buying black shoes.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No cleaning during this test. It was all Edge, so it was deemed by the tech to be unnecessary. Total round count was on the order of 250 starting with a clean barrel. It maybe could have benefited from a cleaning at the half way point, but he'd bent his cleaning rod and it didn't occur to me to bring one. I generally clean before 250 rounds, but that's more out of habit than any known need.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tucker301 View Post
                          Were there any cleaning processes or timings between shots on these test in order to try to achieve as equal a platform as possible with each lot?
                          For the Tenex lot testing we cleaned about half way through. This was after 10 shot groups and before the 40 shot groups.

                          Tenex testing is about 400-500 shots total and Edge is 250-300.

                          My Lilja titebore gets mystery fliers if I don't keep it clean. I do not plan on buying another Lilja Titebore. Shilen ratchet or Lilja standard bore.

                          Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If you was going to test several different brands say eley match then tenex then lapua center x would you clean between each brand? To start fresh with each batch to make sure all the results are equal?


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Cleaning between brands of ammo is a very smart thing.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Not according to the test tech. His experience was that 20 or so rounds of the new ammo was more than adequate. I don't know if he's right or not, but he does spend all day every day firing thousands of test rounds.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  TimK, thank you for sharing your experience and data set with us. This has been very informative.
                                  6.5 SAUM: Manner's T2 in ACMETM Camo with APA Sage Cerakote

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by orkan View Post
                                    Yes, I really truly do think that center X would shoot significantly better than eley edge in that rifle. I bet it would shoot better than eley match too.

                                    Once upon a time, I was convinced that eley was just the end all in precise ammo for my 22lr's. As it stands right now, every lot of Lapua Center X I have tested in the last 2 years has shot better than every single lot of eley match I've tested... and this has held true in every single rifle I own. Eley edge, hasn't even been in the running. I tested 8 lots of it about a year ago in 5 rifles and I might as well have been shooting CCI SV for as well as it shot. I've revisited eley edge and match a few times since. I still grab some tennex once in a while too. Though I'm quickly tiring of that and will probably wait a few years before I try it again... since it has proven completely pointless.

                                    RWS R50 as well as Lapua Center-X and Midas+ have all but removed Eley from my vocabulary. I recently ordered 6 bricks of R50 for lot testing. I fired 100rnds of each lot number for record through 5 rifles. Twenty individual 5 shot groups. Of the six lots, 2 were not real good, 3 were pretty standard good shooting lots, but one was quite good. The good lots were good in each rifle, as were the bad lots. The best lot of eley match I've had in the last 5 years still shoots worse than the 2 bad lots of R50 I just got, and shoots worse than every lot of center x I've had in the last 2-3 years. Point in fact, only ONE lot of tennex I currently have shoots as good as the center X I have.

                                    It could be that all of my anschutz's, all of my martini's, and all of my 40X's just don't like eley ammo. ... or it could be that Eley has been shipping some garbage ammo to the states in recent years and people are finally tired enough of it to speak up. It's not just a few bad lots and it's not just a couple of us experiencing this. The general consumer is too far down the feed trough to get the good lots, if they are actually even shipping any of the good lots over here. I know for a fact that certain distributors here in the states pick through the lots before stuff hits the shelves in many instances.

                                    Do your own testing, or have someone else do it if you don't want to. The truth will be known no other way. Heck, buy a brick of center x to try out yourself. It isn't like it's going to be hard for you to shoot better than 3/4" at 50yds (your best lot test in the tunnel) and see if a different ammo would do better out in the world.

                                    For me, I've done the work and spent thousands of dollars... and Eley isn't going to get any more of my money for quite a while.
                                    I am inclined to agree with Orkan on the Lapua CX ammo. I have tested Edge and Eley Black as well as 10x in some of my good rifles and only one (Win Mod 52) shot Eley Black better than Center-X. Plus, I see less lot to lot variance in Center-X. What I am saying is that if Center-X shoots well in the rifle, I find that most of the Center-X lots are very close in performance.

                                    Some added comments. Midas+ can be marginally better in some rifles but unless you need that last Nth degree of improvement (some do), the added cost is not worth it. Even Wolf MX (made by Lapua) out shoots Eley in most of my rifles. Secondly, many benchrest shooters who I shoot with (about 5 of which are or have been nationally ranked in the top 20 in one or more of the BR games), almost all shoot Eley Black exclusively. I do not own a custom BR rifle and maybe those like Eley more than my Anschutz 54 Super Match. Afterall, it is a "Production Rifle". Lastly, just a cautionary comment, the top benchrest shooters that I know both shoot 60,000 rds per year and both say to never shoot Eley Edge in a custom rifle with a tight match chamber. Their claim is that the edge is slightly oversized to fit tighter in loose fitting standard chambers and as such is too tight in the match bbl.'s. They claim (heresay) that many match bbls were damaged by Edge when it was first released. I have not mic'ed any Edge vs 10X or Eley Blk to verify that last comment. If you want to, feel free. I was getting such good results from Lapua, that I just kept buying it most of the time. The only rifle that I shot the Edge in was my Mod 52 and my Rem Mod 540XR and both of them were old, well worn rifles with a lot of miles on them and did not seem to suffer from the few rds of Edge I put thru them. But the Edge did not out perform the Eley Black or the Lapua CX ammo. It was mid pack at best. Eley black is consistent but in my guns, it just shoots larger groups. They are nice and round and have very few flyers but the groups are always larger by a measurable amount.

                                    Irish

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Well said.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        or it could be that Eley has been shipping some garbage ammo

                                        ...as has Lapua, RWS, CCI, Fiocchi, Armscor, Aguila.
                                        It's reached the point where when punching paper, my chronograph sits out front
                                        in order to know if it was me or the ammunition to blame. Watch a round drop in an inch low at 100 yards
                                        look down at the chrony display and see a 40 fps difference from the previous shot,
                                        I confirm it wasn't me, all on the poor quality of the supposed "match" rimfire ammunition.



                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          Interesting post TimK. Was wondering if Lapua ever comes to the OTC to offer the same service that Eley does? I just tested five lots of Center-X in my Anschutz 2011 late yesterday afternoon when the wind had died down a bit, and had the results skewed a bit by random breezes that persisted the whole time I was shooting. We just flat don't get a lot of better conditions here in western Kansas, especially this time of year, and it makes lot testing at 100yds difficult. Guess I could ship rifles to the Lapua center in Az., but there's a risk in that, plus I'd much prefer to see the tests myself. Not cheap entertainment, but entertainment for sure.
                                          Regards,
                                          Dennis

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            Originally posted by flatland1 View Post
                                            Interesting post TimK. Was wondering if Lapua ever comes to the OTC to offer the same service that Eley does? I just tested five lots of Center-X in my Anschutz 2011 late yesterday afternoon when the wind had died down a bit, and had the results skewed a bit by random breezes that persisted the whole time I was shooting. We just flat don't get a lot of better conditions here in western Kansas, especially this time of year, and it makes lot testing at 100yds difficult. Guess I could ship rifles to the Lapua center in Az., but there's a risk in that, plus I'd much prefer to see the tests myself. Not cheap entertainment, but entertainment for sure.
                                            What's a Anschutz 2011? I tried to google it but no luck.

                                            I live in AZ so going to the Lapua test center was a fun and worthwhile adventure. The guy testing was nice enough to show me how well the Midas + shot in my 1827F compared to the best lot # of Polar Biathlon even though I couldn't afford it, the results were basically the same which I was ecstatic about.

                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              Originally posted by steve123 View Post
                                              I live in AZ so going to the Lapua test center was a fun and worthwhile adventure. The guy testing was nice enough to show me how well the Midas + shot in my 1827F compared to the best lot # of Polar Biathlon even though I couldn't afford it, the results were basically the same which I was ecstatic about.
                                              Did you try Center-X at the center? Would you mind showing the test results of your trip to the Lapua test center? Would love to see what Lapua's test reports look like to compare to Eley reports.

                                              Thanks

                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                Originally posted by stevenc23 View Post

                                                Did you try Center-X at the center? Would you mind showing the test results of your trip to the Lapua test center? Would love to see what Lapua's test reports look like to compare to Eley reports.

                                                Thanks
                                                I know we tried CX the most and I think most if not all the different levels of ammo. It's just that one particular lot of PB shot the best in my 1827F or at least close to as good as the M+. I'll dig out the paperwork and show what's there later today in this post - as long as Tim doesn't object.

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  Hello Tim , I am local on the front range . I was thinking of having one sent to KSS for some testing here in the near future as the amount of Eley here between Zanders and KSS is better than ever . But it would be easier to spend a day in the springs doing this , not having to mess with shipping . I have a few questions for you , could you PM me some contact information for who handles the testing ? Do they only test Edge , or do they have Black Box Match and Tennex ? Quite a few lots on hand , do they test ten lots and did they ask you to bring a box of your best ammo to test along side ? I know and shoot against one of the coaches / former Olympic gold medalist from the OTC at CRC matches , but have never inquired to Mr Wigger about doing any testing down there . Thanks
                                                  Last edited by 67rschev; 04-22-2017, 11:04 AM.

                                                  Comment

                                                  Working...
                                                  X