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  • Mausingfield - SwitchLug - Xray build advice

    So I'm considering a Mausingfield build with the following ideas. This'll be a long one sorry as I have a few ideas swirling around. Let us know what you think.

    - Firstly; I at minimum want to use a long action. If the .585" (Lapua) action is the same footprint as the standard long action, I'll use it and buy two spare bolts in .540" and .470". Can anyone confirm that? Is the Lapua Mag bolt face M5 even available yet?

    - Secondly; I'm wanting to set it up as a switch barrel using the West Texas Ordnance SwitchLug. To do so, I'll need to pin it to the integral lug of the Mausingfield. Can anyone foresee any issues securing the switch lug to the ARC M5? Furthermore, does the Long action (.540" and .585") have the same .185" thick recoil lug as the short action M5?

    - Thirdly; I want to use a KRG Xray stock. Will the long action M5 have any fitment issues? KRG states that the Xray has a .400" lug pocket. Has anyone ever milled one larger? I'll need to mill it an extra .135" to accommodate the M5 integral lug AND SwitchLug sandwiched together. KRG have been very helpful providing pictures on how much larger the pocket can go. Seems like it's doable.

    - Fourthly; I want to use the Bix n Andy Tacsport Two stage trigger. Anyone know of any fitment issues with either the Xray or ARC M5?

    Let me know what you think.
    AKA "Sidelight" on Scout.com

  • #26
    All,

    Chad from LRI made me aware of this post. After reading it, I can understand the desire for a barrel that is easily removed and replaced. I also think that I need to answer some questions about the use of the Switch Lug with a Mausingfield action. It is true that modifying a Mausingfield action in any way essentially voids the warranty. This policy exists for at least the two following reasons. First, it encourages the customer to contact me before doing anything to the action. The Mausingfield has been revised more than once because of good customer feedback. Secondly, the receiver of a Mausingfield is rather hard and difficult to machine. This is especially true for those who are not manufacturing experts.

    That said, I do not recommend modifying a Mausingfield for use with the Switch Lug. Drilling holes parallel to the length of a Mausingfield receiver would require that the entire action assembly be tested for safety, and I have little or no confidence that it would pass if such modifications were made to the receiver. Holes drilled into the face of the receiver will undoubtedly result in stress concentrations that could potentially lead to fractures. I realize that many receivers have been drilled in order to pin recoil lugs but Mausingfield receivers were not among them. I would not recommend doing this to any receiver unless appropriate tests have first been conducted.

    Now, in the spirit of competition and innovation, I can offer what I think is a properly designed barrel thread locking devise. Have a look at the pictures below.

    The devise consists of a split collar and a nut. Encircling the bore (hole) of the split collar is a shallow conical seat against which a conical, spherical, toroidal, or otherwise axi-symmetrical form of the nut will come to bear. The screw of the split collar can then be tightened and thus effectively pre-load the barrel thread thereby immobilizing the receiver and the barrel with respect to one another. The advantage of such an arrangement over the Switch Lug is that it does not require one to drill holes into the face of a receiver. Additionally, it significantly pre-loads the barrel thread because as the split collar's screw is tightened, the collapsing action of the split collar's cone forces the barrel and the receiver in opposing directions with tremendous mechanical advantage. Threads are meant to be pre-loaded for multiple reasons, the least of which, in this particular application, is not the preservation of the positional relationship between barrel and receiver/scope.

    Assembly is easy. Simply screw the nut onto the barrel thread as far as possible ensuring that the conical (or more generally, axi-symmetrical) seat of the nut is facing the receiver. Slip the split collar over the barrel thread so that the cone (countersink) is facing the nut. Screw the barrel into the receiver until it comes to stop against a go+ gage. Ensuring the the screw of the split collar is loose, turn the nut back towards the receiver so as to firmly sandwich the split collar between the receiver and the nut. Doing so should cause the split collar to open by a small amount. Finally, tighten the screw of the split collar to pre-load the barrel-receiver joint thus completing the assembly process.

    I will have the first parts in hand within the next few days at which point I will post a video of the assembly and dis-assembly process. After that, we'll head to the range and see if we can shoot some tiny little groups. All parts have been designed to work with Savage pre-fit barrels having a 1.063-20 UN 2A thread approximately 1.500" in length (standard savage small shank.) I have also designed variants for barrels having shoulders.

    Ted
    Last edited by karagias; 09-12-2017, 10:02 PM.
    Theodore Karagias
    President
    American Rifle Company, Inc.
    We Engineer Accuracy

    www.AmericanRifle.com
    Seattle, WA
    tedk@americanrifle.com
    206-226-4387

    Comment


    • #27
      Originally posted by karagias View Post
      All,



      Now, in the spirit of competition and innovation, I can offer what I think is a properly designed barrel thread locking devise. Have a look at the pictures below.



      Ted
      Hahaha, we have something like that coming as well. We've been refining it and added a couple twists but it's the same functionality.
      Justin
      Kinetic Research Group, ltd (KRG)
      www.KRG-OPS.com
      www.kineticresearchgroup.com
      (Designer of Magpul Massoud rifle, formerly Justin J, member since 2004)

      Comment


      • #28
        Originally posted by karagias View Post
        All,

        Chad from LRI made me aware of this post. After reading it, I can understand the desire for a barrel that is easily removed and replaced. I also think that I need to answer some questions about the use of the Switch Lug with a Mausingfield action. It is true that modifying a Mausingfield action in any way essentially voids the warranty. This policy exists for at least the two following reasons. First, it encourages the customer to contact me before doing anything to the action. The Mausingfield has been revised more than once because of good customer feedback. Secondly, the receiver of a Mausingfield is rather hard and difficult to machine. This is especially true for those who are not manufacturing experts.

        That said, I do not recommend modifying a Mausingfield for use with the Switch Lug. Drilling holes parallel to the length of a Mausingfield receiver would require that the entire action assembly be tested for safety, and I have little or no confidence that it would pass if such modifications were made to the receiver. Holes drilled into the face of the receiver will undoubtedly result in stress concentrations that could potentially lead to fractures. I realize that many receivers have been drilled in order to pin recoil lugs but Mausingfield receivers were not among them. I would not recommend doing this to any receiver unless appropriate tests have first been conducted.

        Now, in the spirit of competition and innovation, I can offer what I think is a properly designed barrel thread locking devise. Have a look at the pictures below.

        The devise consists of a split collar and a nut. Encircling the bore (hole) of the split collar is a shallow conical seat against which a conical, spherical, toroidal, or otherwise axi-symmetrical form of the nut will come to bear. The screw of the split collar can then be tightened and thus effectively pre-load the barrel thread thereby immobilizing the receiver and the barrel with respect to one another. The advantage of such an arrangement over the Switch Lug is that it does not require one to drill holes into the face of a receiver. Additionally, it significantly pre-loads the barrel thread because as the split collar's screw is tightened, the collapsing action of the split collar's cone forces the barrel and the receiver in opposing directions with tremendous mechanical advantage. Threads are meant to be pre-loaded for multiple reasons, the least of which, in this particular application, is not the preservation of the positional relationship between barrel and receiver/scope.

        Assembly is easy. Simply screw the nut onto the barrel thread as far as possible ensuring that the conical (or more generally, axi-symmetrical) seat of the nut is facing the receiver. Slip the split collar over the barrel thread so that the cone (countersink) is facing the nut. Screw the barrel into the receiver until it comes to stop against a go+ gage. Ensuring the the screw of the split collar is loose, turn the nut back towards the receiver so as to firmly sandwich the split collar between the receiver and the nut. Doing so should cause the split collar to open by a small amount. Finally, tighten the screw of the split collar to pre-load the barrel-receiver joint thus completing the assembly process.

        I will have the first parts in hand within the next few days at which point I will post a video of the assembly and dis-assembly process. After that, we'll head to the range and see if we can shoot some tiny little groups. All parts have been designed to work with Savage pre-fit barrels having a 1.063-20 UN 2A thread approximately 1.500" in length (standard savage small shank.) I have also designed variants for barrels having shoulders.

        Ted
        Ted,
        That is pretty cool! What would be the advantage of this system over a standard Savage barrel nut. It looks like for disassembley the collar and nut would come off with the barrel or fall free from the action. Would a person be able to remove or install a barrel with the receiver still in the stock?

        What are your thoughts on simply screwing a shouldered barrel into a mausingfield and torquing it to 40 ft/lbs?

        Silas

        Comment


        • #29
          Originally posted by reubenski View Post

          Ted,
          That is pretty cool! What would be the advantage of this system over a standard Savage barrel nut. It looks like for disassembley the collar and nut would come off with the barrel or fall free from the action. Would a person be able to remove or install a barrel with the receiver still in the stock?

          What are your thoughts on simply screwing a shouldered barrel into a mausingfield and torquing it to 40 ft/lbs?

          Silas


          Ted doesn't make it a habit of frequenting The Hide so maybe I can help on this one. Advantage might be a bit aggressive. From a terminal performance perspective I don't think one outshines the other. We spoke on this topic almost 2 years ago now and the consensus then was more about convenience. That's really where this assembly starts to out pace the others. Go gauge and a single allen key; That's all a guy needs.


          Personally, I think its pretty Soviet in appearance. That's my opinion. I feel guns have grown ever more distant from the elegance the makers once worked so hard to deliver. Today's vibe strikes me more as like a scene from Call of Duty.

          "Bring extra funds to replace whoevers steel you're gonna fuck up with that thing."
          -Killswitchengage

          Comment


          • #30
            Well, I like the ARC barrel nut / split ring.....A lot in fact.

            Here is what I really like about it, the fact that I can switch barrels without a complete tear down (minus removing the trigger). I could literally do a barrel swap in the field, not that I "need" to, but that I can. I find I switch barrels a couple times a month, depending. This system facilitates barrel swaps with nothing more than a go gauge and allen key, no barrel vices, action wrenches, etc. Plus it is done correctly; tensioning the tenon threads!!

            I am a materials guy by trade, specifically metals. I dont like thin wall thicknesses, especially at near thread valleys. Thin metal + cyclic life cycles = weak areas. To pin a recoil lug, is not the answer. Does it work? Yep. Will it never fail? Maybe. If it does and you are injured, are you liable? Absolutely. Your nearest cracker jack lawyer wouldn't touch that case.

            In reply to Chad's "Soviet in Appearance"....is this ARC barrel nut / split ring hideous? Oooh fuck yeah!! It literally looks like a bag of burnt up assholes. Is it function over fashion? In my opinion, yes. I will absolutely try one of these, especially on my mausingfield, that I switch between WSM cases, Creedmoor, and Dasher. I am looking forward to seeing where this goes.
            Badger M2008
            -Tactical Supply, Kinetic Research Group W3, A.R.C. M10 rings, Sunrise Tactial Gear, Benchmark Barrels

            Comment


            • #31
              Well this thread went better than I could have hoped for, I have the perfect solution for my question. Thank you so much for your time Chad and Ted.
              AKA "Sidelight" on Scout.com

              Comment


              • #32
                Hope this arrangement will be available for other actions also
                We all live and die. It's, what you do in between that counts.

                Comment


                • #33
                  Originally posted by mm509 View Post

                  In reply to Chad's "Soviet in Appearance"....is this ARC barrel nut / split ring hideous? Oooh fuck yeah!! It literally looks like a bag of burnt up assholes. Is it function over fashion? In my opinion, yes. I will absolutely try one of these, especially on my mausingfield, that I switch between WSM cases, Creedmoor, and Dasher. I am looking forward to seeing where this goes.
                  Ha ha! That shit is hilarious! It's hard for me to judge it cosmetically from the CAD drawings, wouldn't care either way, but that is funny!.....

                  "Well this thread went better than I could have hoped for,..."

                  Ya, this has definitely been a productive thread. Frank's had something on the website like "Year of the bullet" he might have been referring to last year, don't remember. But the advancement in prefits and switch barrels has been awesome this year. I love to see it!

                  Comment


                  • #34
                    Put another locking screw on the front collar so you only have to headspace once. I'm only half joking.

                    Comment


                    • #35
                      Could this be made to work with the current LA Mausingfield scope rail or would a shorter rail be required? Based on the CAD drawings it appears that a shorter rail flush with the front of the action would also be required.

                      Either way I'll take the new rail, split collar, 6 barrel nuts and that adjustable sear firing pin, just show me where to sign up.

                      Comment


                      • #36
                        Hold on here, what's up with this = "that adjustable sear firing pin" and what purpose does it serve???

                        Thanks for any info.

                        Comment


                        • #37
                          Originally posted by steve123 View Post
                          Hold on here, what's up with this = "that adjustable sear firing pin" and what purpose does it serve???

                          Thanks for any info.
                          The ARC Facebook page had a post on it a day or two ago. I think Ted's getting feelers for it to see if it's something to pursue. It was a replacement cocking assembly with adjustable sear position that lets you control where the sear engagement is relative to the bolt cycle path. In other words, time the engagement location so that there is no cock-on-close action going on, nor any cam/spring-driven bolt drop when chambering. Different aftermarket triggers have different sear lengths, or at least where the sear hits a particular cocking piece.
                          Attached Files

                          Comment


                          • #38
                            Edit: Ledzep beat me to the punch while I was typing and his is better, See above for explanation.
                            Last edited by CMP70306; 09-13-2017, 11:23 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #39
                              If barrel tenon pre-load is so important, then why is the current AI system so successful? Is it because the barrels headspace off the shoulder and it doesn't matter that there is only like 10 ft-lbs of torque with them being hand tight?

                              Or is the tenon pre-load only important on this Savage type of system where there is no shoulder?

                              Comment


                              • #40
                                Originally posted by Ledzep View Post

                                The ARC Facebook page had a post on it a day or two ago. I think Ted's getting feelers for it to see if it's something to pursue. It was a replacement cocking assembly with adjustable sear position that lets you control where the sear engagement is relative to the bolt cycle path. In other words, time the engagement location so that there is no cock-on-close action going on, nor any cam/spring-driven bolt drop when chambering. Different aftermarket triggers have different sear lengths, or at least where the sear hits a particular cocking piece.
                                Thanks for explaining. That'd be cool.

                                Comment


                                • #41
                                  Ted and I just spoke. He made sample parts last night. 1st article beta testers are in the works. I'm tasked with spinning up a couple barrels. The tennon design on these will be a little different than what most are thinking. It works better this way. Soon as I have a CAD model I'll run a couple.

                                  More to follow. . .

                                  "Bring extra funds to replace whoevers steel you're gonna fuck up with that thing."
                                  -Killswitchengage

                                  Comment


                                  • #42
                                    Originally posted by LongRifles, Inc. View Post
                                    Ted and I just spoke. He made sample parts last night. 1st article beta testers are in the works. I'm tasked with spinning up a couple barrels. The tennon design on these will be a little different than what most are thinking. It works better this way. Soon as I have a CAD model I'll run a couple.

                                    More to follow. . .
                                    Very interested. Looking forward to seeing how it all works.
                                    AKA "Sidelight" on Scout.com

                                    Comment

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