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  • Black Ops Precision/UGSW Gunsmiths' Names

    I don't recall the names of the two gunsmiths that used to work for BOP/UGSW but I know at least one of them has his own shop now. I talked with one a year ago when I picked up a lightly used BOP Recon model in 6.5CM and he said the builder's initials would be on the bottom of the receiver.

    I wanted to verify the torque settings on the action screws and for some reason I don't have it in my notes. It's a pillared action in a Manners MCS-TF1-A stock and I was thinking it was 65 in/lbs. I know I can call Manners but I'd still like to know who built my rifle should I ever want to do some upgrades.

    "The only thing new is the history you don't know."
    "The only thing new is the history you don't know."

  • #2
    Tim Cronin @ Elkhorn Precision
    Blackjack Pershing taught us all we need to know about dealing with Muslim Extremists.
    911 is government sponsered dial-a-prayer
    1st Cav. has been,"C" troop 1/9 Cav 68-69-70 RVN
    The wind is not your bitch
    Generally, you are the winds bitch. Fact!

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    • #3
      Elkhorn Precision is closed. If it's a UGSW/BOP build, the first initial, last name will be etched on the bottom surface of the recoil lug. Action bolt torque is 65 in lbs.

      MB

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      • #4
        Thanks for the help guys. I found a reference (although not on Manners' website) indicating the forward action screw should be 65 in/lbs and the rear 45 in/lbs. I'll verify tomorrow and post the update.

        ​​​​​​I took the stock off tonight to check the name and it's C. Bagnoli. When you mentioned Tim at EP; it rang a bell and that's who I talked to last year. His website is no longer up like you mentioned and I can find no mention of either gunsmith.

        "The only thing new is the history you don't know."
        "The only thing new is the history you don't know."

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        • #5
          I talked with Manners and here's what they say. "If it has pillars in it I would look into 45 inch'lbs to start with and go up to 65. The specs for the mini chassis is 65 front and 45 rear. That is a solid piece of Aluminum in the mini chassis so it can handle it. With a bare stock with pillars I'd start with 45."

          "The only thing new is the history you don't know."
          "The only thing new is the history you don't know."

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          • #6
            Why do you not want both screws torqued the same?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by RonboF117 View Post
              C. Bagnoli.
              Colton Bagnoli

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              • #8
                Torque both to 65 in lbs.

                MB

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                • #9
                  Oh, for those wondering, my stock does not have the mini-chassis; it is pillared. Right now I'm experimenting with 45/55.
                  "The only thing new is the history you don't know."

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                  • #10
                    Ronbo:

                    You do realize that RAVAGE88 used to own BlackOps Precision, right?? If he says torque both to 65 in/lbs....probably what you should do!!


                    Tim Cronin was one of THE BEST gunsmiths I have ever worked with........he built me a 6.5 Creedmoor right before he closed his shop down & its an absolute HAMMER. Tim is pursuing a career in law enforcement....he's a great guy and one hell of a gunsmith!!

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                    • #11
                      McMillan sells these.......https://mcmillanusa.com/product/45-lb-torque-limiter/

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by toader View Post
                        Ronbo:

                        You do realize that RAVAGE88 used to own BlackOps Precision, right?? If he says torque both to 65 in/lbs....probably what you should do!!


                        Tim Cronin was one of THE BEST gunsmiths I have ever worked with........he built me a 6.5 Creedmoor right before he closed his shop down & its an absolute HAMMER. Tim is pursuing a career in law enforcement....he's a great guy and one hell of a gunsmith!!
                        No I didn't know that about RAVAGE88. That is excellent intel, thanks a lot for passing that on! Just shows you the talent we have here on the 'Hide.
                        "The only thing new is the history you don't know."

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Edds View Post
                          Why do you not want both screws torqued the same?


                          Chassis stock 101:


                          Most receivers are cylindrical in shape. Most chassis systems are a "V" type wedge. Pretty simple to envision how it all works. Two surfaces bear against the cylinder forming tangent contact along the length. Easy enough to understand.

                          The rub:

                          Few receivers are as simple as a pipe. Due to style, we like to see the tang feature of the action narrow into a visually appealing wedge type shape. Not all the different from an old broadhead on an arrow. This is where the wheels start to fall off. The tang narrows and because of this at some point, the back end is going to be hanging in space like a diving board over a pool. If the rear action screw is behind the last point of contact we end up with a lever. The stock now acts as the fulcrum (pivot point)

                          This can be easily demonstrated. Remove the front guard screw and tighten the rear only. If the action starts to levitate off the stock, you have this condition. This can cause some performance issues in terms of accuracy and function. I've had guns come through here where the receiver was bound up so bad the bolt didn't want to run...

                          To resolve it we have 3 basic options:
                          • Bed the tang with a resin system
                          • Alter the screw torque so that distortion of the receiver is avoided/minimized
                          • Add a contoured pillar*
                          *pillar. This is my preferred method. I locate the rear hole. Drill/tap it for 1/2-28. Turn a length of brass and thread it. Poke a hole down through it. Screw it into the stock and lock it down with epoxy. Once cured I come back and contour the pillar to the same radius as the receiver. This way the tang is directly supported.


                          Note: Not all chassis systems suffer from this. The Cadex stuff seems to address it with the use of embedded dowel pins. I know the late model mini chassis from Manners now has a boss feature around the rear hole. Its doing the same basic job that I've done to correct the older/legacy type AI stocks.


                          Bedded stock 101:

                          If the stock has pillars you should never need to exceed 50 inch pounds of guard screw torque. In fact, 40 inch pounds will do it if using SS guard screws with a 28 pitch thread. Install screws DRY. No oil on threads, no lube on the heads of the fastener. You want a certain amount of "sticktion" so that they fend off loosening up from vibration.

                          Tighten the screws to the same value. If you cannot, its because the stock was not bedded correctly. I would check the thing over, the trigger well in particular, to ensure a safety lever isn't rubbing somewhere. Magazine boxes must float inbetween the action/floor metal. DBMs must not contact the receiver anywhere.

                          Hope this helps.

                          C.
                          Last edited by LongRifles, Inc.; 09-16-2017, 09:44 AM.

                          "Bring extra funds to replace whoevers steel you're gonna fuck up with that thing."
                          -Killswitchengage

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                          • #14
                            Good post LongRifles...
                            M40A-1 in process...

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                            • #15
                              Chad, thanks for your comments.

                              Perhaps you could add something to this? https://forum.snipershide.com/forum/...butt-pad-angle

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