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  • Dry Fire Question

    If this is in the wrong thread, moderators please move it.

    I have been using my I.O.T.A for dry fire at home focusing on the fundamentals (Remington 700). My biggest weakness during dry fire and live fire is my kneeling barricade position. What dry fire drills does everybody do to work on the fundamentals primarily in positional shooting?

  • #2
    Yeah, wrong section, but it'll sort itself out.

    Keep in mind that the vast majority of my positional shooting and related practice has been more related to service rifles vs precision rifles. That's actually the historical norm though, so here goes:

    When working on positional dry firing, to me the focus wasn't about actually squeezing the trigger as much as it was practicing the position to minimize wobble and get the remaining wobble to settle into the tightest most consistent pattern possible, usually described as a "figure 8"

    Once i I felt as though I had build a solid position, I would then focus on my Interrupted Trigger Squeeze, which is breaking the shot as my wobble passed thru the target. With a service rifle there is a lot of mush and creep and take up compared to a crisp precision rifle trigger, so it's a little different, but still the same: you're NOT snatching the trigger, you're simply only applying pressure as you wobble across the target. By only applying pressure in this manner, then the shot should only break when you're on target (or damn close).

    The less stable the position, the more Interrupted Trigger Squeeze can help you.

    As for position building itself, it's all about experimentation within the rules. In service rifle, those rules are fairly strict. In PRS they're almost nonexistent. Try all manner of silliness you can think of in order to get the most points of contact and skeletal support. If you don't have one of those huge assed pump pillow shooting bags that are basically standard equipment now, then play around with a bed pillow. You can find a lot of PRS videos on YouTube that'll show how they're being used.

    Obviously natural point of aim, natural respiratory pause, trigger control and follow through, and all the other fundamentals still apply as much as possible.

    Every time you squeeze the trigger in dry fire you should be able to say with near certainty where that round should have impacted on the target. That's "calling" your shot. Build that habit and do it on the range during live fire. As soon as the shot breaks you should "know" where it went. By the time you've recovered from recoil and reset the trigger, and are able to observe impact through the scope ("plotting" your shot) it should be where you thought it was. That applies to pretty much everything you will ever shoot.


    Not not sure if that's what you're looking for, but it's a quick and dirty "rifleman 101" from an old rifleman.
    I am The German's spirit animal

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    • #3
      Bogey pretty much nailed it. For me, it's about building the best position I can and NPA. It takes practice, time, and a lot of reps. You'll get there


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      "Never start an argument with a man who can end you from another zip code"

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      • #4
        Thanks brother. I'm still figuring out the precision rifle thing, but I feel like I had the service rifle shit under control. Looking for a club back home where I can embarrass myself trying for Distinguished.

        OP, a "trick" I failed to mention while building your position for Natural Point of Aim is this:

        Build your position with your eyes closed. Once you feel settled, open your eyes and see where your sights are. If they're off, then note which direction you need to go, close your eyes and move your whole body to adjust, then reopen your eyes. Once you're naturally on target, close your eyes again and take a full breath in and let it all the way out, then open your eyes on that respiratory pause and verify that you're still on target. Verify that a few times with your eyes open, looking at your sights, You should see your sights on target, then they should rise above the target during your full breath, and should settle back onto the target once your lungs are empty again. THAT is when you should be breaking the shot every time.

        I ran the ranges for my unit, so I had to shoot last all the the time. When we had spare ammo I would run that drill for fun on a rapid fire string and once I had my position I would shoot the whole string with my eyes closed as a check on myself that I had true NPOA in my positions. It was a great way of really forcing myself to build the perfect position without the safety net of being able to muscle the rifle if my position broke down mid-string.
        I am The German's spirit animal

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        • #5
          Bogey,

          Your replies, and other like them, are the reason I'm on this forum. Thanks.

          God bless America

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Scarface26 View Post
            Bogey,

            Your replies, and other like them, are the reason I'm on this forum. Thanks.

            God bless America
            Thanks man. I'm one of the dumb ones around here. Wait till someone who knows what he's talking about responds.
            I am The German's spirit animal

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            • #7
              Get a Barrett MRAD.

              Errr, wait, what?

              What specifically are you asking? You mention one position which has multiple variations and then ask a broad question about general training. Are you wanting to specifically know how to better set up on a specific barricade; whats the barricade? What's your current position look like and what are you doing/not doing? Are you supporting both the front and the rear of the rifle (your hand doesnt count)? Do you need something to bridge the gap between your strong side leg and strong side elbow arm? Are you getting tense/worked muscles from holding yourself in the position for more than 60 seconds at a time?
              10. Panzerdivision - 23. Gebirgsjäger 'Bayern'
              Hammelburg 1999
              {KFOR} Veteran 1999 - 2001

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              • #8
                You're slacking bro, there was a thread in bolt actions where the guy had a $10k budget and didn't know what to buy. I waited as long as I could for you, but finally just told him to buy an MRAD on your behalf.

                I wasn't about to try to diagnose a position question like this one in a thread, but you have at it. Which is why I tackled the larger dry fire/position building in general topic.

                oh yeah, and buy an MRAD, cash me ousside
                I am The German's spirit animal

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                • #9
                  How are you finding the IOTA ? What's it like ?
                  “For God and country – Geronimo, Geronimo, Geronimo”

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                  • #10
                    I'll take a poke at addressing this question not because I'm good at it (I'm not) but because I have been working on the same thing. Having come from the world of positional shooting (small bore, EIC, etc) I'm working on applying these techniques to PRS, which is far more improvisational.

                    Bogey hit on the major points but here's my take. 1. Building a firm and relaxed position is your goal. 2. Use your skeleton, not muscles, for stability. No matter how strong you are a sling/pillow etc and your skeleton will offer a more stable position than muscles and you will be able to hold it longer. I haven't yet had a PRS prop that wiggles very much and I've been learning to use those as an extension of my own skeleton. Basically I want to offload all that I can from my own skeleton to the prop. Over time I have been leaning on them more (actually leaning into them) and thus taking weight and strain off of my body. The more I do this the less effort it takes and I am able to breathe easier. Probably the first casualty of shortness of oxygen is eye sight.

                    I have a barricade set up in the yard and from the kneeling position my rifle is loaded onto the barricade in such a way that I can take my hands off of the rifle and it won't move. A barricade stop enables this. I'm just leaning forward with my chest square with the barricade. No twisting so it makes for nice, easy breathing.

                    Prone isn't too common in PRS but I have learned that anything across the hood of a car, a barrel, and even some barricades is nothing but a modified prone. I try to look at whatever prop is presented and think about how I'm going to load my rifle and body onto it in some way similar to how I would load a bipod from the prone. How quickly you can do that and how stable it is will depend on how much you practice and how varied your practice is.

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                    • #11
                      This game is all about getting a solid position the first time without having to adjust, and recoil management. Practice getting into position smoothly at varying heights from 6" to standing, and dry fire 2x then back off. Make every movement you make with purpose. Don't worry about speed, just get your approach and position down to a core set of movements. Like above, use your bones for support, and check NPA right before you close the bolt. It may help to write down a "shot plan" for a basic barricade shot listing every movement from approach to working the bolt back. Read, re-read, imagine yourself going through it and train the right movements, until you can't get it wrong.

                      Another kneeling technique to practice is to actually pull the rifle into the barricade letting the barricade soak up some of the recoil. I use my bipod and a ftw rear bag looped over the legs. If you have a good square position, you'll be able to spot your own hits from any height every time with the short action calibers we use.
                      Beyond the very extreme of fatigue and distress, we may find amounts of ease and power we never dreamed ourselves to own; sources of strength never taxed at all because we never push through the obstruction.
                      William James

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                      • #12
                        Hey SlagAxe, Come on by to one of local matches in Central Florida. I don't think that we have a barricade prop that doesn't wiggle a bunch. It will change things up a bit for you as a challenge. But, you are right in that you need to quickly find the most stable position you can and then dry fire to see if your sights stay on target or not. If you don't have any barricades set up where you do your dry firing (I don't), you can use just about anything for a prop. The wife's heirloom dining room chairs, for instance...

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                        • #13
                          I'll echo what bab029 said and add to really make sure you are square to the rifle/barricade ie positioned for proper recoil management. I've found that if you dry-fire a lot but don't live-fire much, it's easy to get in the bad habit of getting in stable positions that work great for dry-firing but that don't properly manage recoil.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bogeybrown View Post
                            You're slacking bro, there was a thread in bolt actions where the guy had a $10k budget and didn't know what to buy. I waited as long as I could for you, but finally just told him to buy an MRAD on your behalf.

                            I wasn't about to try to diagnose a position question like this one in a thread, but you have at it. Which is why I tackled the larger dry fire/position building in general topic.

                            oh yeah, and buy an MRAD, cash me ousside
                            lol me either but wanted to see if it was something simple he was doing wrong, like a ton of people have it programmed in their brain that when they kneel, the left leg goes up leaving nothing to support the elbow/shooting arm/rear of rifle on and then later realize they can leave their right leg up instead or use something to bridge the gap between the elbow/leg if its a high kneeling
                            10. Panzerdivision - 23. Gebirgsjäger 'Bayern'
                            Hammelburg 1999
                            {KFOR} Veteran 1999 - 2001

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TheGerman View Post

                              lol me either but wanted to see if it was something simple he was doing wrong, like a ton of people have it programmed in their brain that when they kneel, the left leg goes up leaving nothing to support the elbow/shooting arm/rear of rifle on and then later realize they can leave their right leg up instead or use something to bridge the gap between the elbow/leg if its a high kneeling
                              Yep, pretty much any of us from the mil or service rifle side of things will instinctively do that shit every time until we learn that we can use whatever's available
                              I am The German's spirit animal

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by bogeybrown View Post

                                Yep, pretty much any of us from the mil or service rifle side of things will instinctively do that shit every time until we learn that we can use whatever's available
                                Depends on the rifle/what I'm doing. Instinctively I want to put the left leg up when shooting kneeling to support the left arm holding the carbine. Shooting from a barricade, you have to beat it into yourself while running at it and figuring out what position/how am I getting behind this thing to remember to switch it up.

                                Was actually doing this with a group yesterday while running a drill where you run from 1 weird barricade, 40 yards to another, set up, hit 2 steel targets (3 rounds max), get up and run back 40 yards to the other and repeat this 3 times. On one of the barricades/pieces of cover you could get the rifle over the front of it at a nice height and shoot crouched/keeling with support from your right leg, whereas the other barricade you couldn't and had to do the gumby sway maneuver to come out from behind/the side of the barricade and shoot.

                                P.s. - Found that thread lol
                                10. Panzerdivision - 23. Gebirgsjäger 'Bayern'
                                Hammelburg 1999
                                {KFOR} Veteran 1999 - 2001

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                                • #17
                                  I'm glad I'm not the only one still doing it out of habit born from a million repetitions. Also glad you found the thread, I had to perform my Spirit Animal duties
                                  I am The German's spirit animal

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                                  • #18
                                    narrow barricades that are solid (like a plywood sheet wall) - throw a bag/game changer/etc under the stock, atlas angled 45 back (over the barricade), slung up...push with left palm creating tension between sling/bipod hooked/left arm...if low enough get a knee under the rear, always try to support the rear...use tripod leg if allowed and you have time (not always an option)

                                    narrow barricades that are wobbly - kind of a crap shoot, still use the bag but instead of pulling i get my body closer and try to use a knee/elbow/something to take some of the wobble out of the barricade and balance the rifle near its center of balance pinching the scope down, or with left arm extended, laying on the barricade, and holding the fore end (basically makes a triangle between my shoulders/arm/rifle thats laying on top of the barricade), but still stay square as possible behind it...same about supporting the rear applies from above

                                    wide barricades that are solid - same as the narrow except i dont use the bag up front...not needed once youre locked in with the bipod/sling...if for some reason the barricade shape doesnt allow it (shot a few that dont) i push into the flat stop point in front of my mag well and pinch the scope, weak side elbow resting on the barricade as well if possible...again, try to find rear support

                                    wide barricades that are wobbly - same as the narrow except i almost always just pinch the scope and try to use parts of the body to contact the barricade to reinforce it and remove some wobble...support the rear

                                    have shot some barricades that could be pushed/pulled over fairly easy so being able to do it without much force on the barricade comes in handy sometimes

                                    ^^thats generally how i approach...YMMV

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