Zero Compromise Optic update

Jan 18, 2006
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www.zcompoptic.com
#1
Zero Compromise Optic would like to express a heartfelt thank you to the members of Sniper's Hide for being extremely patient. We have been very quiet on any updates because we wanted to make sure that any updates we posted were as factual and accurate as possible. We also don't want to be that company posting updates saying "just two more weeks" and having to do so every two weeks. That's not acceptable.

Our assembly team is currently working on the very first small batch of ZC527 model scopes to be sent out to key individuals and dealers. These should be sent out within about 30 days. We anticipate the ZC420 to be in production shortly after the ZC527. MSRP is $3500 for the ZC420 and $3600 for the ZC527. Again, we truly appreciate your patience and we are confident you’ll find our products exceed your expectations and will have been well worth the wait.
 

CavScout85

Online Training Member
Jan 22, 2018
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#3
Oh man, I can't tell you how great that is to hear. Been tough watching everyone pickup their new toys and being patient!
 

Basher

Sergeant
Dec 13, 2004
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#5
Yay! Glad to hear an update on these! I'll keep my eyes peeled for initial reviews and thoughts. I'm not quite in the market at the moment, but by the time these hit the market and some folks have been able to put them through their paces and review them, I will be. I'd better start saving up, my AIAT may need one of these... :D
 
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Conrad

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 28, 2006
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#11
I’ll be the optimist and say since I’m 3rd on the list at Mile High, then I look forward to shooting the 5-27 sometime in October. But who knows!
 
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Dthomas3523

Blind Squirrel
Jan 31, 2018
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#22
Thanks for the update, Nick.

I am with on the whole "another two weeks" business. This kind of stuff takes time and planning for exact dates can be tricky.

ILya
As am I. What I am not a fan of is this industry promoting things at shot show, giving a summer release date, vendors taking pre-oreders, and then the product either barely releasing by, or after the next shot show.

This is not just ZComp. This is the entire industry. For some reason it’s common/tolerated in this industry.

In the last year I have cancelled pre-orders for super 700 trigger, pro 700 stocks, and now have moved on to other optics waiting on the zcomp.

I’ll be happy to try out and possibly purchase a zcomp when they eventually make a production run.

What I won’t do is act like a starving dog that was given a bacon bit and give a ton of praise for releasing a state that literally says nothing about when they are planning to actually release a product that is months behind schedule.
 

Basher

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Dec 13, 2004
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#24
As am I. What I am not a fan of is this industry promoting things at shot show, giving a summer release date, vendors taking pre-oreders, and then the product either barely releasing by, or after the next shot show.

This is not just ZComp. This is the entire industry. For some reason it’s common/tolerated in this industry.

In the last year I have cancelled pre-orders for super 700 trigger, pro 700 stocks, and now have moved on to other optics waiting on the zcomp.

I’ll be happy to try out and possibly purchase a zcomp when they eventually make a production run.

What I won’t do is act like a starving dog that was given a bacon bit and give a ton of praise for releasing a state that literally says nothing about when they are planning to actually release a product that is months behind schedule.
That's one of the many reasons I'm not an early adopter, and why I rarely participate in crowd funding campaigns. My money stays in my pocket until a product can be delivered. I've waivered from this stance only a handful of times, and about half of the time I'm disappointed. So, if I just wait until the product is actually available before I buy, I avoid the frustration and disappointment. :) If something else comes along that meets my needs in the mean time, I go that direction if I feel like it. Makes life a little less stressful, and I'll take all the help I can get there!
 

Lowlight

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#26
I would rather a small delay than have a product hit the street too soon,

I believe June was mentioned, but I also recall Jeff telling me Sept ?

I think all you who think the delay is an issue should go another route if you are upset rather than whine.

This instant gratification thing is a problem, I remember waiting 9 months to get my Accuracy International Rifles and my S&B scopes, that was a set in stone date back in the day. Order a rifle or scopes from either and 9 months later you had it. today everyone wants things today and will stomp their feet if they have to wait

Nobody forces you to pay early,
 

Lowlight

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#27
And PS,

You have to show up and get a Booth at SHOT a year early in order to get a Booth at SHOT when you need it.

The fact he was at SHOT in the new product section is a function of the system. You must start off in that area before you can get a new booth for a company. Victor Company was in the same boat right across from Zero Compromise because that is the process.
 

koshkin

Dark Lord Of Optics
Feb 22, 2006
1,488
759
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www.opticsthoughts.com
#28
I have worked on bringing a few electro-optical systems to the market here and there. I can count on one hand the number of times when we did not have some sort of a nasty surprise during the final stages. Usually, there is some small thing that makes you go back and re-design a subsystem here and there.

It is not just this industry. It is just about any industry.

ILya
 

CavScout85

Online Training Member
Jan 22, 2018
241
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WNC
#29
I have worked on bringing a few electro-optical systems to the market here and there. I can count on one hand the number of times when we did not have some sort of a nasty surprise during the final stages. Usually, there is some small thing that makes you go back and re-design a subsystem here and there.

It is not just this industry. It is just about any industry.

ILya
Agreed, same in my industry. Given the statement above, do we know if zco is past those points?
 

Dthomas3523

Blind Squirrel
Jan 31, 2018
1,680
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South Texas
#31
I would rather a small delay than have a product hit the street too soon,

I believe June was mentioned, but I also recall Jeff telling me Sept ?

I think all you who think the delay is an issue should go another route if you are upset rather than whine.

This instant gratification thing is a problem, I remember waiting 9 months to get my Accuracy International Rifles and my S&B scopes, that was a set in stone date back in the day. Order a rifle or scopes from either and 9 months later you had it. today everyone wants things today and will stomp their feet if they have to wait

Nobody forces you to pay early,
Difference is you waited for a product that was sold out or had a wait for it to be built. Not to be released.

I have no issue with waiting, and I’ll probably end up buying a zcomp when they eventually hit the market.

My issue is with this particular industry making premature announcements, then either going silent or doing the “two weeks” as was mentioned above.
 
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Lowlight

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#32
Premature,

Please, read my SHOT Post, he would not have to go prematurely if SHOT did not require to you set up early and get the 2ft sq table before you can get a 10ft sq one

As Ilya said, stuff happens at the end of a build that sometimes requires work to be done, and adjustments to be made. 3 months off schedule is hardly premature. Only people who have to get it the second it arrives are the premature ones.

Never once did they say, "if you don't buy it now in pre-order will you get it"

Let's look at a camera, Nikon just posted an apology for not enough Mirrorless Cameras, let's look at the RED Phone, delayed, all that stuff is "teased" early and then takes a while to release. Even Apple does it.

It's called Marketing, only here do people not understand the ENTIRE world works this way. so please spare me the fake outrage
 

koshkin

Dark Lord Of Optics
Feb 22, 2006
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Los Angeles
www.opticsthoughts.com
#33
Agreed, same in my industry. Given the statement above, do we know if zco is past those points?
We do not. Noone does yet.

If they are doing the first production build now, that means that they took care of everything that they found. It is entirely possible that there is something that slipped by them. Given the people involved I doubt they missed anything significant, but there is always a chance.

It is entirely possible that as this first batch goes out, something else will pop-up and they will have to fix it. This kind of stuff happens and this is one of the things that separates companies you want to work with from the ones you do not.

Everyone screws up occasionally, it is how they handle it that matters.

I remember years ago I reviewed one of the first PST scopes off the line and ripped it to shreds. I thought that Vortex would order a hit on me after that one. They did not talk to me for a bit, so I started looking over my shoulder a little. It turned out that they took it like adults and instead throwing a hissy fit, went back to the drawing board and made improvements.

Perhaps, these first ZCO products will be perfectly polished. Or perhaps they will still have work to do. We will not know until the scopes get out there. Regardless of which it is, do not be too quick to draw conclusions.

ILya
 

jonthomps

Gunny Sergeant
Feb 9, 2009
1,777
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#36
I appreciate them taking their time and dedication to getting it right the first time. Sure, nobody likes to wait, but there are things worse than waiting - like sending a scope back to the manufacturer for a problem that could've been prevented with a couple of additional months of quality assurance testing.
 
Feb 21, 2013
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#37
I will gladly support a company that presents factual information and doesn't blow smoke up everyone's ass just because they feel pressured. Bring out the product that exceeds all expectations and the virtue of patience will be well worth it in the end.
 
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Moose

Sergeant
Jul 3, 2005
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#38
I will gladly support a company that presents factual information and doesn't blow smoke up everyone's ass just because they feel pressured. Bring out the product that exceeds all expectations and the virtue of patience will be well worth it in the end.
Nick338.I agree with you 100% on getting it right from the get go, take your time and work out the kinks.It pisses folks off when they spend 3 or 4 grand on a scope or custom rifle and they have problems with it.I been true it more then once.
 
Oct 17, 2017
692
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Dallas
#39
I'm going to side with Dthomas to an extent and at least try to explain why. I'm not suggesting that delays are unacceptable. I understand that things evolve during new development on a tight schedule, and putting a tight timeline on things isn't a recipe for quality. But nobody held a gun to their heads and told them to say that they're expecting it to ship in June.

This is an issue of expectations. They set an expectation when they published a date and started having vendors take money. If they can't hit the date that they published or reasonably close to it, nobody should really have any beef with customers being a little perturbed.

I don't view any of this as fake outrage, but rather as a genuine frustration about why it seems like so many companies in this industry either miss dates or put out products without going through the full design/qualification process, or both. It is definitely present in all industries, but it does seem to be especially pronounced in the high-end firearms industry. Maybe part of that is the combination of striving for high-end performance and selling it to a group of retail customers that wants to pay as little as possible for it (i.e., the "good-cheap-fast" problem) and have it in their hands yesterday. So to some extent, maybe unreasonable expecations on both sides are playing a role.

Just my $.02 - it's worth what you paid for it.

ETA: I do agree with Nick and Ilya that the "2-week" approach of coming back every 2 weeks and giving you an update that says it'll be ready in 2 weeks is no good either. I'm glad these companies are trying to be up front about where they're at. I just wish they'd do that from the start rather than publishing an ultra-aggressive ship date on a developmental effort.
 
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Lowlight

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#40
So if I came back from SHOT and said,

New optic coming out, and refused to give an estimate of release, people would scream. It’s the second most common question, when.

You’re gonna see companies just exclude the public in anything but the sales. It will all fall back to industry insiders and when one just suddenly becomes available 1/2 of you will cry that you didn’t know. You’ll have bought something lesser between because you won’t know something might be coming. June, September, doesn’t matter the actual date because they will refuse to say.

In other words, they can’t win, the whiners will stomp their feet with a first world whining . Having to wait 3 months extra. Boohoo

Any discussion will be after the fact, it’s happening now because they don’t want the bs and you can expect it to happen more often. To the point the companies will stay out of the conversation all together. I hear all the time that moving forward social media will be limited as the public is too volatile and expects more than they deserve.

This effects no one posting here, yet you’d think your dog was kicked and you can’t function because of it.

First world drama

How does a company “ warn” you if they run into a last minute delay ? It’s last minute....

Everything will get an Apple approach, just a purchase date after the release date. The two will be separate, we expect the product ready in Sept, you won’t be able to buy until January. It’s what Ruger did with the RPR, I was shooting it March, the public in July. You’ll have next to no notice of upcoming products. More NDAs, and non-discussion.
 

wjm308

Send it!
Nov 30, 2012
1,988
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#41
My guess is in a year or two, at the most, this will all be forgotten and ZCO will be a common name among elite optics. Schmidt & Bender usually takes well over a year from the time they announce until it ever hits the streets. Frank already mentioned that you have to book your booth waaaaay in advance of SHOT Show, ZCO is a brand new, small, start up, not some huge brand with millions of financial backing. Also, they never "promised" the scope in summer, they "hoped" the scope would be released by summer and I understand that sets an expectation, but now they are saying about (not promised mind you) 30 days, so end of Sept./early October time frame... for a small boutique scope maker that is still very impressive from the time of announcement right before SHOT. More than the release date of the scope, I'm most curious about quality because one thing they have promised is "zero compromise" when it comes to mechanical and optical quality and for our industry that leads many to think this scope will be on the level of Tangent Theta and Hensoldt but at a price that comes in lower than both in many cases, if ZCO has truly managed to pull this off they will be an instant success I'm sure! For me, I'm hoping the ZCO scopes will be on par IQ wise with Schmidt, if they are better then fantastic, but hoping for at least Schmidt quality in glass. And turret wise, they have a new design which could be the best "feel" yet, I'm not a turret purist as I find most turrets work for my situations; however, I know many pursue the "perfect" feel so we'll have to wait and see. I am more concerned about tracking and feel that with Nick and Jeff at the helm I'm sure they've spent countless hours ensuring these scopes will track to a T, but all this is speculation for now, the good news is we have about a month to wait until we start hearing some initial reports.
 

USMC1990

No Diddy Boppers
Nov 13, 2012
103
15
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Houston, TX
#42
So if I came back from SHOT and said,

New optic coming out, and refused to give an estimate of release, people would scream. It’s the second most common question, when.

You’re gonna see companies just exclude the public in anything but the sales. It will all fall back to industry insiders and when one just suddenly becomes available 1/2 of you will cry that you didn’t know. You’ll have bought something lesser between because you won’t know something might be coming. June, September, doesn’t matter the actual date because they will refuse to say.

In other words, they can’t win, the whiners will stomp their feet with a first world whining . Having to wait 3 months extra. Boohoo

Any discussion will be after the fact, it’s happening now because they don’t want the bs and you can expect it to happen more often. To the point the companies will stay out of the conversation all together. I hear all the time that moving forward social media will be limited as the public is too volatile and expects more than they deserve.

This effects no one posting here, yet you’d think your dog was kicked and you can’t function because of it.

First world drama

How does a company “ warn” you if they run into a last minute delay ? It’s last minute....

Everything will get an Apple approach, just a purchase date after the release date. The two will be separate, we expect the product ready in Sept, you won’t be able to buy until January. It’s what Ruger did with the RPR, I was shooting it March, the public in July. You’ll have next to no notice of upcoming products. More NDAs, and non-discussion.
In other news, my refrigerator only makes cubed ice now...the crushed ice function stopped working! Damn you Maytag! How are we supposed to live like this!
 

MarinePMI

Battery Operated Grunt
Jun 3, 2010
2,592
1,014
113
San Diego, Ca
#45
So if I came back from SHOT and said,

New optic coming out, and refused to give an estimate of release, people would scream. It’s the second most common question, when.

You’re gonna see companies just exclude the public in anything but the sales. It will all fall back to industry insiders and when one just suddenly becomes available 1/2 of you will cry that you didn’t know. You’ll have bought something lesser between because you won’t know something might be coming. June, September, doesn’t matter the actual date because they will refuse to say.

In other words, they can’t win, the whiners will stomp their feet with a first world whining . Having to wait 3 months extra. Boohoo

Any discussion will be after the fact, it’s happening now because they don’t want the bs and you can expect it to happen more often. To the point the companies will stay out of the conversation all together. I hear all the time that moving forward social media will be limited as the public is too volatile and expects more than they deserve.

This effects no one posting here, yet you’d think your dog was kicked and you can’t function because of it.

First world drama

How does a company “ warn” you if they run into a last minute delay ? It’s last minute....

Everything will get an Apple approach, just a purchase date after the release date. The two will be separate, we expect the product ready in Sept, you won’t be able to buy until January. It’s what Ruger did with the RPR, I was shooting it March, the public in July. You’ll have next to no notice of upcoming products. More NDAs, and non-discussion.
Spot on. I've been talking to the Leupold and Trijicon peeps, and can say for certain that they're avoiding posting because of some of this behavior. It's sad really, since because of some, the golden goose has been killed.
 
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Oct 17, 2017
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#46
Spot on. I've been talking to the Leupold and Trijicon peeps, and can say for certain that they're avoiding posting because of some of this behavior. It's sad really, since because of some, the golden goose has been killed.
Am I mistaken in saying that Kahles met, or was really close to meeting, their promised ship date on the 525? Are they just better at making scopes than everyone else? How were they able to make their date while nobody else can? I don't think they're putting out inferior products.

Not sure why the choice for some companies is to post false info, start taking money, and fail to deliver, or to not post anything at all. Why isn't it an option to provide accurate info up front, even if the "accurate" info is "we're not sure when it will ship, and we'll start publishing dates when we have one that we're confident in"?

I just think it's more than a little hypocritical to look at a situation where people have put money down based on a sales pitch and an estimated ship date and to blame the people who believed the company rather than blaming the company for taking money and failing to deliver? Once again, I understand there are delays during development. But as the manufacturer, you should understand the risk of publishing a date you might not be able to meet and taking money after publishing that date.
 

MarinePMI

Battery Operated Grunt
Jun 3, 2010
2,592
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#47
Look, if you put money down on something that doesn't exist yet, then you (should) know that all bets are off about when actual delivery happens. It just plain common sense.

While I understand the frustration (all too well), it is, what it is. Putting out a projected date (as @Lowlight mentioned) is becoming a liability to manufacturers, due the "I want information, and I want it now" mentality that social media breeds, and leaves them exposed if they miss a date, as people will then want to know why, each time something unexpected comes up. This can (and usually does) happen many times in a development cycle, which can leave the companies "appearing" inept, when in actuality, they are being very thorough with the T&E phase.

Too many people think that if they put their money down, that have a right to whine and bitch. The reality of it is, they have the right to whine and bitch without putting money down, they just use the money as an excuse to justify bad (or immature) behavior. The companies can't win, so, go with the safest bet; don't say anything until the product is shrink wrapped in the boxes, and awaiting delivery to the vendors.

For the record (and I've mentioned this before), I put money down the first few months JAE offered their 700 chassis. I love that thing. I also waited four years for it to become an actual thing and be delivered. It was a prototype when I ordered it, and I knew I was taking a chance in a delay. Shit happens when the industry is moving as fast (or faster) than R&D, T&E and manufacturing can keep up with at times....
 
Oct 17, 2017
692
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Dallas
#48
Look, if you put money down on something that doesn't exist yet, then you (should) know that all bets are off about when actual delivery happens. It just plain common sense.

While I understand the frustration (all too well), it is, what it is. Putting out a projected date (as @Lowlight mentioned) is becoming a liability to manufacturers, due the "I want information, and I want it now" mentality that social media breeds, and leaves them exposed if they miss a date, as people will then want to know why, each time something unexpected comes up. This can (and usually does) happen many times in a development cycle, which can leave the companies "appearing" inept, when in actuality, they are being very thorough with the T&E phase.

Too many people think that if they put their money down, that have a right to whine and bitch. The reality of it is, they have the right to whine and bitch without putting money down, they just use the money as an excuse to justify bad (or immature) behavior. The companies can't win, so, go with the safest bet; don't say anything until the product is shrink wrapped in the boxes, and awaiting delivery to the vendors.

For the record (and I've mentioned this before), I put money down the first few months JAE offered their 700 chassis. I love that thing. I also waited four years for it to become an actual thing and be delivered. It was a prototype when I ordered it, and I knew I was taking a chance in a delay. Shit happens when the industry is moving as fast (or faster) than R&D, T&E and manufacturing can keep up with at times....
I understand all of that. But to say that the customer doesn't have a right to be upset when the company publishes a ship date, takes money, and then misses that ship date by a mile is patently insane, IMHO. Of course the customer has a right to be upset.

If the big change here is that companies stop publishing dates, then that's a big win IMHO. Why would anybody be against companies deciding to withhold info that isn't correct anyway? There's no reason to publish dates that are wrong all the time. If people want info that doesn't exist, that's on them. If companies make promises and aren't even close to keeping them, the customer has every right to be upset and it is 100% on the company.
 

loveha

New Hide Member
Jul 31, 2018
27
17
3
NW Lower Michigan
#49
If it was me, showing a product at shot show, I would say, "Ready by next shot show 2019."
Or just give quarters, and just say "Ready 3rd quarter 2018."
This industry is no different than the computer industry. Deadlines not met, limited product at release, or silence on release dates.
I have no issue with silence, or far out releases dates. But don't give me a date, and not meet it. If you say Oct 2018, add three months. So then that way, if you do run into issues with your own in house date, the public has no idea and is still expecting Jan. If you meet the October deadline, or at least release before Jan, you suddenly become Scotty from Star Trek and your company is a miracle worker.

Personally, I would just say, "Look at our super awesome product. Oh, you want a date of release? Sometime in the future, thank you for your interest."
It's not going to hurt the bottom dollar, people are either going to wait or not. The diehard brand loyalists will wait, but everybody else will just get something else that fits their needs.
 

Fig

Janitor of the Hide
Mar 15, 2018
1,913
2,804
113
The Most Dangerous City in the USA
#50
I’ve been under promising and over delivering my whole adult life. I make human nature work for me.
LOL @Lowlight! Instant gratification is a disease of youth and immaturity. It’s a disease that I’m quite sure sniper school so thoroughly stomps out of you that it’s shadow is even gone from your soul.
Sphinx like patience is not typical to the human condition. If it was there would be no drug abuse, infidelity, or even theft.
We would all just stand under the apple tree with our hand out waiting for the one we want to fall in it’s good time...:ROFLMAO:
 
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