Wind call break down

Klemm

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#1
What is your thought process or checklist for making a Wind call. For example do you spend the first two minutes evaluating wind direction and speed and getting the highs, lows and average at the shooters position. Then Focus downrange at the target to confirm wind direction through mirage and vegetation Movement. Then depending on distance to target, do you add wind speed if the bullet will enter a different wind gradient.
Just trying to get an idea of how I can stream line my wind call.
 

Skookum

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#2
I spend more than a couple of minutes if time isn't a factor, usually 5-10 minutes. I first determine wind speed at the firing point. I get a low and a high and an average. I look down range 1/3 and 2/3 to the target if terrain permits (watching mirage), to see what might be different. I come up with a full value hold and then modify for wind angle.

ELR wind calling is when you really start worrying about wind gradients. That is full of voodoo and would be an entire conversation in itself, and all of it subjective.
 
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Milo 2.5

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#3
Changes in terrain dictate wind patterns. Break it down to a 5 mile sq area, but it is way larger than that, the air moving through is ?mph, the air has to move at that speed as a whole. It's changes in terrain that give speed ups and slow downs, air does not lift real well and it will take the path of least resistance and will funnel through a draw picking up speed because now there is more air flowing through, then when it opens up it slows down and fans out. If wind is forced over a hill, it's gong to be blowing fast. Take your wind meter with when driving, get out and check it in different spots, make note of the variations, keeping in mind the air in general is moving a x speed, changes in wind speed other than gusts are caused by topography.
So when you are on a range, look the countryside over and figure wind direction and you will be able to anticipate what will happen. Just say you were set up in a sprawling Kansas wheat field that was half a section, if the wind is blowing 12mph, it's probably the same the whole way to the target. Get into hill country and now you are shooting over 3 draws or coulees in the same 12 mph wind, well the rodeo has just started.
I've been in this game for going on 10 yrs, I have never agreed with wind at shooter position being the most prevalent, it usually is to say 500, after that, no go, maybe it's the ranges I have access to, not sure.
 

Bravo6niner

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#4
Changes in terrain dictate wind patterns. Break it down to a 5 mile sq area, but it is way larger than that, the air moving through is ?mph, the air has to move at that speed as a whole. It's changes in terrain that give speed ups and slow downs, air does not lift real well and it will take the path of least resistance and will funnel through a draw picking up speed because now there is more air flowing through, then when it opens up it slows down and fans out. If wind is forced over a hill, it's gong to be blowing fast. Take your wind meter with when driving, get out and check it in different spots, make note of the variations, keeping in mind the air in general is moving a x speed, changes in wind speed other than gusts are caused by topography.
So when you are on a range, look the countryside over and figure wind direction and you will be able to anticipate what will happen. Just say you were set up in a sprawling Kansas wheat field that was half a section, if the wind is blowing 12mph, it's probably the same the whole way to the target. Get into hill country and now you are shooting over 3 draws or coulees in the same 12 mph wind, well the rodeo has just started.
I've been in this game for going on 10 yrs, I have never agreed with wind at shooter position being the most prevalent, it usually is to say 500, after that, no go, maybe it's the ranges I have access to, not sure.
I find your last statement very true from my experience. Wind at the shooter gets to be less important real quick after 500-600 yds. I have a couple spots a buddy and I shoot at quite often with draws and uneven terrain and we find time and time again wind at the target or half way to the target is most important. An example would be we were shooting our SAUMS at 1580 yds and the wind call at the shooting location was 1.2 mil right. We send a round down range and it’s a mil to far right. We look at each other puzzled, then we look through our spotter better and realize the mirage over the corn field we are shooting over is almost at a stand still. Our shooting location was on a hill in pasture grass but the better part of the bullets flight was over the corn field. Accurate wind calling is the great equalizer!!!!
 

Milo 2.5

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#5
I find your last statement very true from my experience. Wind at the shooter gets to be less important real quick after 500-600 yds. I have a couple spots a buddy and I shoot at quite often with draws and uneven terrain and we find time and time again wind at the target or half way to the target is most important. An example would be we were shooting our SAUMS at 1580 yds and the wind call at the shooting location was 1.2 mil right. We send a round down range and it’s a mil to far right. We look at each other puzzled, then we look through our spotter better and realize the mirage over the corn field we are shooting over is almost at a stand still. Our shooting location was on a hill in pasture grass but the better part of the bullets flight was over the corn field. Accurate wind calling is the great equalizer!!!!
Haha, if you are shooting over or beside 3 draws, with differing heights, the one that holds the most wind deflection will be the pivotal one, every shot before is predictable, anything after is pure fun and mind boggling.
 
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wigwamitus

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#6
I'm finding this thread SPOT ON for my wind practice.
This year I've been practicing at 500yds and 750yds ... with
5.56(18) 77gr SMK
6.5G(18) 123gr ELD-M
7.62(22) 175gr SMK

all targets are IPSC(2/3) steel 12x18 on main body and 6x6 for the "face" on top.

Goals have been:
01 - Increase incidence of first round hits
02 - Successfully transition from shooting the whole target to only counting hits on the 6x6 face for 500yds

Results have been that first round hit incidence for 750yds has increased from about 30% to about 50%. Though primarily this is due to switching from Manfrotto tripods to RRS tripods.

For 500yds incidence of first round hits has increased from about 50% to about 80% including the transition to 6x6 face, which dd not seem to affect the results.

Primary issue is fore and aft wind. I might measure fore or aft wind at the FP, but along the bullet path, the effective wind direction shifts. Mirage, rain and snow can all be used to aid in judging the direction of down range wind ... as can be trees and water on the surface of a pond at 500yds FP.
But the mirage, rain or snow are only helpful a small percentage of the time.

The 500yd range is shooting downhill alone the line of a draw with the line of fire being to the NNW. Two tree lines may cover the bullet path to the West of the bullet path and these are along the center line of the draw which has a fair amount of water and hence that's where the trees are. This range is fairly predicatable.

The 750yd range is from near the top of a hill at 1309 ... down to the targets will around 1175 feet above SL elevation Also NNW. Our main creek crosses the bullet path from East to West and we are shooting thru the trees along the creek which are up to 60 feet high. This range is much tougher to predict. Wind can vary up to 60 degrees in direction along the bullet path from what I detect at the FP. So this one is still challenging. Though I realize that once I "crack the code" ... I will have to find other directions to shoot ... other places to put targets, etc.
I'm working on a 1050yd range which sort of shoots across both of the existing 500yd and 750yd ranges.

I'm in Kansas, in the Flint Hills area ... and enjoying wind practice!

I also do the 2 min lo, avg, high thingy ... I toss dirt, grass, leaves, etc. up in the air to judge direction, or I point my face in various directions until I can feel it. I use migrate, rain and snow to see the wind direction and they rarely even help est. the speed down range. I use the trees the sounds and the water surfaces when available. Indexing the sounds of the trees to the wind speed during the 2 min check is a key activity so I can adjust my holds to the sounds.

I'm been using Tremor3 reticles about 80% of the time. The wind dots means I can think in MPH period. No translation to mils I est in MPH and hold in MPH. I'm a wind dot bigot :)

I've read about 10 books on wind calling this year ... the summary of which could be stated "Get out there and figure it our yourself" :D Though about half of the books dug deeply into a few specific ranges and how to call wind on those specific ranges. But I don't think the 5m cookbook wind calling recipe has been published yet :)

But it is fun and very satisfying when you actually get one of those 1st round hits. And I also think many of my misses are me "overthinking" the situation and discounting the data. I think if I improve being more methodical, the results will show it.

==
Here is a terrible attempt at a "range card" for the 500yd and 750yd and soon to me 1050yd FP and target locations. And understand the firing points move around for each distance ... the targets are only in two locations (less berms to build).

 
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Milo 2.5

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#7
I'm in Kansas, in the Flint Hills area ... and enjoying wind practice!



I've read about 10 books on wind calling this year ... the summary of which could be stated "Get out there and figure it our yourself" :D Though about half of the books dug deeply into a few specific ranges and how to call wind on those specific ranges. But I don't think the 5m cookbook wind calling recipe has been published yet :)
I may publish on the 5 mile principle next yr, lol. Trust me, when I'm shooting it's spot on the spot dedication, my reference was if one looks at the bigger picture, and checks it out, a lot gets answered. No 2 ranges are the same, does not mean features from one cannot carry to the next to an extent.
 
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brianf

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#11
all good info so far, there is no real time limit (some short some long).
we have all heard that the wind is like surfers waiting for a good set of swells, same with monitoring the environment.
if you have time wait for at least 2 periods of wind and lull.
that will give you a very good idea of whats happening, and more importantly learning what period is most consistent or longest.
you may not always want to shoot in the lull if its very short lived, you might be better at times shooting while its blowing if its very consistent.
 

Skookum

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#12
The weather here sucks today. 23*F and winds 13 - 18 mph. But, the air is full of dry powdery snow so it has been extremely interesting to actually see wind flowing over the terrain and obstacles.
 

Skookum

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It’s amazing how many swirls show up
The most interesting things to see are the actual size of wind shadows compared to the size of the obstacle, and to observe the speed of the wind after it is diverted by an obstacle.

The wind shadows seem to be about 4 times the height of the obstacle in this wind.
 
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LawnMM

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#16
Different strokes for different folks, here's what I do:

What's my 10mph full value at the target range, example = 0.8 Mil at 600 yds

What's my average wind speed? Let's say 6mph. That's 60% of 10mph. 0.8/10=0.08
.08*6= 0.48 or 1/2 Mil

If it's half value or quarter value or 3/4 value wind angle break up 1/2 Mil into 1/4, 1/8, or 3/8 Mil holds respectively

Those are portions of your 10mph wind at full value, so if your buddy is shooting a different caliber or bullet or velocity or whatever if he uses the same portion of his 10mph full value wind, whatever it is, it translates

If you transition to a target at another range, just use the same fraction of your 10mph hold and it will also translate distances

My take.
 

Skookum

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Different strokes for different folks, here's what I do:

What's my 10mph full value at the target range, example = 0.8 Mil at 600 yds

What's my average wind speed? Let's say 6mph. That's 60% of 10mph. 0.8/10=0.08
.08*6= 0.48 or 1/2 Mil

If it's half value or quarter value or 3/4 value wind angle break up 1/2 Mil into 1/4, 1/8, or 3/8 Mil holds respectively

Those are portions of your 10mph wind at full value, so if your buddy is shooting a different caliber or bullet or velocity or whatever if he uses the same portion of his 10mph full value wind, whatever it is, it translates

If you transition to a target at another range, just use the same fraction of your 10mph hold and it will also translate distances

My take.
Do you memorize the wind drift chart of every different load you shoot, or write them down?
 

Jack Master

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Holy smokes! Loads of wind information in this Video. (Fast forward to 10:40) Might help a guy out.

This whole interview is awesome! Its worth the watch.

 
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Skookum

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Holy smokes! Loads of wind information in this Video. (Fast forward to 10:40) Might help a guy out.

This whole interview is awesome! Its worth the watch.

There is a better way to do wind math. There are plenty of threads on here about the BC / Mil method, so I won't go into it here.
 

eastexsteve

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#21
I find your last statement very true from my experience. Wind at the shooter gets to be less important real quick after 500-600 yds. I have a couple spots a buddy and I shoot at quite often with draws and uneven terrain and we find time and time again wind at the target or half way to the target is most important.
Keep in mind that the amount of time your bullet is exposed to a given wind has a lot to do with it. After 500-600 yds your bullet has lost a good deal of speed, so the wind will have more effect on it for remaining 400 yds. (Or whatever the remaining distance is.)
 

Skookum

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#22
Keep in mind that the amount of time your bullet is exposed to a given wind has a lot to do with it. After 500-600 yds your bullet has lost a good deal of speed, so the wind will have more effect on it for remaining 400 yds. (Or whatever the remaining distance is.)
All wind matters, the effect of drift has little to do with actual speed. It is the difference in velocity between the projectiles speed in a vacuum vs. it's speed in the atmosphere (lag time), multiplied by time.

The difference between the front half and the back half is a function of the change in BC due to speed, not the percentage of velocity loss overall.

If you had a wind shadow for the first 500 yards, and wanted a more accurate calculation for the last 500 yards only, then you would just drop your basic wind number down 1 mph. So a bullet that was previously a 6 mph bullet is now a 5 mph bullet for the back half.
 

brianf

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#23
All wind matters, the effect of drift has little to do with actual speed. It is the difference in velocity between the projectiles speed in a vacuum vs. it's speed in the atmosphere (lag time), multiplied by time.

The difference between the front half and the back half is a function of the change in BC due to speed, not the percentage of velocity loss overall.

If you had a wind shadow for the first 500 yards, and wanted a more accurate calculation for the last 500 yards only, then you would just drop your basic wind number down 1 mph. So a bullet that was previously a 6 mph bullet is now a 5 mph bullet for the back half.

Skookum was a on a wind thread a little while ago that I replied to...
We use a three wind zone (close mid range target), and combine them to get a single wind value.
Takes the guess work out of what “wind” matters most.
 
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eastexsteve

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#25
All wind matters, the effect of drift has little to do with actual speed. It is the difference in velocity between the projectiles speed in a vacuum vs. it's speed in the atmosphere (lag time), multiplied by time.

The difference between the front half and the back half is a function of the change in BC due to speed, not the percentage of velocity loss overall.

If you had a wind shadow for the first 500 yards, and wanted a more accurate calculation for the last 500 yards only, then you would just drop your basic wind number down 1 mph. So a bullet that was previously a 6 mph bullet is now a 5 mph bullet for the back half.
I should have clarified myself. By "it" in my post, I was referring to the bullet and not the wind. The amount of time the bullet is exposed to a given wind will have a varying effect on the bullets' deflection. The faster the projectile is traveling to the target, the lower the exposure time to that wind.