Why not a 7 WSM?

Feb 21, 2013
149
38
28
#1
I currently shoot a 7 SAUM on a long action and want to try and take advantage of the 195 Berger and hit 2950-3000 fps but I don't thing the SAUM is going to be the right fit. I'm trying to stay away from true long action cartridges so they really aren't an option. I hear 7-300 WSM is the way to go but I really don't enjoy messing around with brass and necking up or down. So that really only leaves the 7 WSM as a potential suitor so other than a shorter neck why isn't it more popular for long range?
 

Bradu

Full Member
Aug 24, 2011
1,938
239
63
IL
#2
Finding brass has been the biggest downfall of the 7 wsm. I like mine and am very happy with it but I had to buy loaded ammo just to get brass to shoot it.
 

jetmd

Sergeant
Jan 17, 2010
590
38
28
53
Smithville, MO
#4
Hornaday is currently available.
It's quality has not yet been verified, by anyone I know. Neither have I tried it yet myself.
The reviews of Bertram brass has been very hit or miss.
I love my 7wsm, but I would personally avoid it due too quality brass availability.
 
Feb 21, 2013
149
38
28
#6
I really didn't want a long action to begin with but realized I was holding the cartridge back from its full potential with long, heavy bullets by not being able to seat them out. I also do not want to use a muzzle brake anymore and I can't own a suppressor in NY so I feel any true long action is just going to exacerbate what I feel is the approaching limit of my recoil tolerance. I was actually going to build something on a .30 and attempt this without a brake but I'm only fooling myself thinking it will be fun to shoot. I'm sure a 28 Nosler or 7 Practical with heavy bullets is not far behind.
 

jetmd

Sergeant
Jan 17, 2010
590
38
28
53
Smithville, MO
#7
Great explanation and I understand your reasoning.

My thought would be too run a long action with an efficient cartridge, but build a HEAVY rifle.

This would allow you run heavy high BC bullets and use the full length of the mag/action.

The weight would help mitigate the recoil without the use of a suppressor (NY 👎) or the unwanted muzzle break.
 

Long Range 338

Professional Ammo Waster
Jul 10, 2012
408
51
28
Out West
#9
I love me some 7 WSM. I’m not sure you can push the 195gr pills to 3000fps with a short action round though. I only run up to 175gr bullets but the 168 seems to run great in my gun and recoil is mild in a 10-12 lb rifle. YMMV. Great round just needs some love in the brass Dept.
 

jbailey

Gunny Sergeant
Jul 27, 2010
1,541
81
48
45
Arlington VA
#10
You have a 7SAUM and its working for you in bullets other than the 195gr Berger, but you want to re-chamber, re-tool and find all the brass for a 7WSM? I honestly don't think there is much of a difference between those two cartridges. Maybe 20fps faster from the 7WSM, maybe... All that work, time and cost for a very marginal gain doesn't seem like the best use.

Also, I doubt either cartridges will push the 195gr that fast, even from 30" barrels, at least under a safe 65k psi. With this said, these high BC bullets don't need to be pushed super hard to get super good performance. A 195gr at 2800fps is still a force a long long ways out.

Best of luck either way.
 

McCrazy

Your tax $$$ at work.
Jun 4, 2008
964
24
18
Clarksville, TN
#11
I have 2x 7 WSMs and think it is a great caliber. During load development I had a majority of 3-shot groups less than .25 moa (before people complain, I wasn't going to waste a relatively short barrel life shooting 5-round groups). The external ballistics are impressive with high BC 180 gr Bergers, and recoil is quite comfortable.

Some people complain about brass availability but Hornady, Bertram, and Winchester make brass for it. At around $1 per piece, it isn't that expensive either.

My main concern is barrel life which seems to vary widely from people claiming 800 rounds to about 2400 rounds. Most say around 1600-2000 which isn't horrible.
 
Feb 21, 2013
149
38
28
#17
I'm not sure the bullets I'm using are transitioning well going out to a mile. The case capacity for the 7 SAUM is 72.6grs and the 7 WSM is 83grs which if built on a long action is useable case capacity. That should be enough to push the 195 to 2950 with a 29" barrel unless the numbers I looked at are not correct.

I know I'm probably splitting hairs between the 2 cartridges but if the extra bc and speed are enough to allow me to shoot more consistently at a mile then it's worth to me.

You have a 7SAUM and its working for you in bullets other than the 195gr Berger, but you want to re-chamber, re-tool and find all the brass for a 7WSM? I honestly don't think there is much of a difference between those two cartridges. Maybe 20fps faster from the 7WSM, maybe... All that work, time and cost for a very marginal gain doesn't seem like the best use.

Also, I doubt either cartridges will push the 195gr that fast, even from 30" barrels, at least under a safe 65k psi. With this said, these high BC bullets don't need to be pushed super hard to get super good performance. A 195gr at 2800fps is still a force a long long ways out.

Best of luck either way.
 

Long Range 338

Professional Ammo Waster
Jul 10, 2012
408
51
28
Out West
#18
Not to argue but just a suggestion, if you are willing to push 30” on the barrel the weight would be there to balance recoil from the 7RM, 7-300, or 7STW. These cases are more available and would get you to the 3000fps in a long barrel.
At SHOT Peterson brass was considering producing 7WSM. If we could generate enough interest they would do it. With great brass the 7WSM would be resurrected IMHO. It really is a great little cartridge
 
Likes: Bradu
Feb 21, 2013
149
38
28
#20
If a 7 PRC is based on the current 65 PRC case I don't think it will be much different then the case capacity on the 7 SAUM.
 

Bradu

Full Member
Aug 24, 2011
1,938
239
63
IL
#21
Not to argue but just a suggestion, if you are willing to push 30” on the barrel the weight would be there to balance recoil from the 7RM, 7-300, or 7STW. These cases are more available and would get you to the 3000fps in a long barrel.
At SHOT Peterson brass was considering producing 7WSM. If we could generate enough interest they would do it. With great brass the 7WSM would be resurrected IMHO. It really is a great little cartridge
I would love to see Peterson make the 7 wsm brass after everything I have read about their quality.
 
Likes: Kwe1982
Feb 13, 2017
39
7
8
#22
I'm not sure the bullets I'm using are transitioning well going out to a mile. The case capacity for the 7 SAUM is 72.6grs and the 7 WSM is 83grs which if built on a long action is useable case capacity. That should be enough to push the 195 to 2950 with a 29" barrel unless the numbers I looked at are not correct.

I know I'm probably splitting hairs between the 2 cartridges but if the extra bc and speed are enough to allow me to shoot more consistently at a mile then it's worth to me.
My favorite ELR practice gun is a 7/300wsm using Norma 270wsm brass. The sized case capacity is 79 grains of water. It's not really that much more capacity than the 7 SAUM.

I've shot the 195 Hybrids in 7mm cartridges with capacities up to 122 grains of water, but went back to 180 grain bullets because they were more consistent at distance. Our range has targets at 1200, 1400, 1600, and 2200 yards. We clock every shot with a labradar and for similar velocity spreads, the 180 hybrid, VLD, and ELDm give lower vertical spreads out of 1:8 barrels.

Trying the 180 class of bullets would be easier than tooling up for a new cartridge.
 

McCrazy

Your tax $$$ at work.
Jun 4, 2008
964
24
18
Clarksville, TN
#23
Jetmd- I said Bertram, Hornady, and Winchester made brass for 7 WSM. I never stated where each brass manufacturer was currently in stock, although a little effort Googling (the arduous task of typing "7 WSM Brass" then clicking on various links turns up multiple sources to include Graf's, Gunbroker and Midway which Theis already helped you out with. If you have an itch for Winchester for less than $1 a piece specifically, try below.

https://www.dowdlesports.com/Winchester-Ammo-Unprimed-Brass-Rifle-7mm-WSM-50_p_41569.html

You said you tried them in the past but they may be worth another shot. A couple people on another forum stated that Winchester made a batch of 7WSM brass last year so maybe they have some currently.

Either way, it is your problem to solve. Good luck as you seem to prefer being passive aggressive and hoping others will do the work for you. I've got mine.
 

Bradu

Full Member
Aug 24, 2011
1,938
239
63
IL
#24
Jetmd- I said Bertram, Hornady, and Winchester made brass for 7 WSM. I never stated where each brass manufacturer was currently in stock, although a little effort Googling (the arduous task of typing "7 WSM Brass" then clicking on various links turns up multiple sources to include Graf's, Gunbroker and Midway which Theis already helped you out with. If you have an itch for Winchester for less than $1 a piece specifically, try below.

https://www.dowdlesports.com/Winchester-Ammo-Unprimed-Brass-Rifle-7mm-WSM-50_p_41569.html

You said you tried them in the past but they may be worth another shot. A couple people on another forum stated that Winchester made a batch of 7WSM brass last year so maybe they have some currently.

Either way, it is your problem to solve. Good luck as you seem to prefer being passive aggressive and hoping others will do the work for you. I've got mine.

The winchester 7 wsm brass that showed up at Cabelas site went fast, I'm sure that place doesn't have any at this point. Shortly after Cabelas had it, it was up for sale on forums for 2-2.50 per piece lol. It is generally cheaper to buy loaded Winchester ammo and pull down than it is to buy brass that pops up on the forums or gunbroker. I have no desire to shoot Hornady brass, I would rather neck down and fireform Norma 300 wsm. That's probably what my current barrel will be used for when its shot out.
 
Likes: McCrazy
Feb 21, 2013
149
38
28
#25
I have not tried the 180 hybrid, vld or eld but I am currently going back and forth between the 183 Sierra and 184 Berger. Neither has been anything to write home about.

Several variables may come in to play. Neither bullet may handle transonic speeds well. I have no way of proving or dis-proving this.
The mile shots are over a depression and may be affected by an updraft.
The barrel is a 1-7 twist which may be over-spinning the projectiles and possibly hurting stabilization not helping it.
The loads may not have the best sd and es numbers for shooting a mile.
The action is not as tight as I would like and I'm hearing more and more about inconsistent fire control causing vertical at distance.

Too many factors to point the finger at one particular one which is why starting over with a different action and trying to increase velocity and bc was just my way of eliminating as many of them as possible.

The rifle is very accurate at everything up to 1k. Going from that distance to 1 mile has left me scratching my head.
 
Jan 23, 2008
106
7
18
Northern Calif. USA
#26
I got a notification from Midway that they had 7WSM in stock! I was on there list for when it came in to send me a notice. I place that probably a couple years ago!!! My notice came in last week, but don't know if its still in stock!
 
Jul 6, 2010
1,095
52
48
34
Denver, CO
#27
If a 7 PRC is based on the current 65 PRC case I don't think it will be much different then the case capacity on the 7 SAUM.
I think it would be based on the 300 PRC, which is not just a necked up 6.5 PRC. The 300 PRC is a 300 win mag+p essentially so a 7PRC would be like a 7/300+p without the belt. Whew!
 

Conrad

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 28, 2006
1,349
67
48
TX
#28
I have a long action 7MM SAUM and the bullets are seated at 3.100. With a 26 inch barrel and R26 I am getting 3050 FPS with the 180 ELDM. Something to think about.
 
Likes: BCX
Dec 22, 2017
271
105
43
#29
I have a long action 7MM SAUM and the bullets are seated at 3.100. With a 26 inch barrel and R26 I am getting 3050 FPS with the 180 ELDM. Something to think about.
That’s incredible!! I am at 3075 fps with the same bullet and powder (likely more of it) with my 27” barrel 7 wsm.

Have only taken it to beyond a mile once so far (1960 yards) but I did hit a sub MOA (17” wide and 14” tall) rock on my 3rd shot. This was with the 175 eldx though.
 
Last edited:

BCX

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 18, 2018
519
121
43
#30
That’s incredible!! I am at 3075 fps with the same bullet and powder (likely more of it) with my 27” battle 7 wsm.

Have only taken it to beyond a mile once so far (1960 yards) but I did hit a sub MOA (17” wide and 14” tall) rock on my 3rd shot. This was with the 175 eldx though.
Built on a long action?
 

bribri

Always Smooth
Sep 21, 2009
1,018
12
38
Nebraska
#34
Do a 264WM. Good quality norma brass, minimal recoil, 140 hybrids at 3150 fps will do everyghing a 7 mag can do. Only downfall is, it has less impact signature for seeing your misses.
 
Dec 22, 2017
271
105
43
#35
Not saying 264 mag won't work but a 180 ELD at 3075 fps is still over 1400 fps at a mile and is around 14 mil of elevation to get there and would be roughly 2.8 mils of wind correction in a full value 10 MPH.

By comparison the 264 win with the 140 hybrid at 3150 going less than 1100 fps, needs roughly nearly 17 MILs of elevation and a full MIL extra of wind correction. Now you slap a 147 ELD in that 264 win mag and that gap narrows, but still not there.
 
Feb 21, 2013
149
38
28
#36
Have you actually verified the drop for the 180 ELD at a mile or are the numbers based on a ballistic program? I do not buy that bullet having a bc of over .400 when every other bullet in the same class is between .345 and .377 and even the 195 Berger is only .380. Bryan Litz has it at .360 in his book. That was the reason why I tried the 183 Sierra first because it had the highest bc.

Not saying 264 mag won't work but a 180 ELD at 3075 fps is still over 1400 fps at a mile and is around 14 mil of elevation to get there and would be roughly 2.8 mils of wind correction in a full value 10 MPH.
 
Dec 22, 2017
271
105
43
#37
Have you actually verified the drop for the 180 ELD at a mile or are the numbers based on a ballistic program? I do not buy that bullet having a bc of over .400 when every other bullet in the same class is between .345 and .377 and even the 195 Berger is only .380. Bryan Litz has it at .360 in his book. That was the reason why I tried the 183 Sierra first because it had the highest bc.
No I haven’t. Like I mentioned above the only bullet I have shot to a mile and 200 yards further is the 175 eldx simply cause that’s the one I chose to hunt with and picked for my do all bullet. The 180 eld was not quite as accurate for me in my rifle and the BC of the 175 isn’t terrible.

Interesting stuff on the 180 though. If it’s really only .360 then I am even more glad I stuck with the 175.
 
Feb 21, 2013
149
38
28
#38
.360 bc is much more believable and more in line with other bullets in its class but I do feel I have gotten caught up in the numbers within that book. The more time I spend reading through it, the more inconsistencies I find like measurements of Berger bullets not matching even close to what Berger has on their website, ogive radius's for 2 different bullets are very close to the same yet their rt/r ratio is drastically different and I don't quite understand why some bullets lose .150 or more pts in g1 bc from 3000 fps to under 1500 fps and some only lose .050.

As an example:

Hornady 180 gr ELD

Above 3000 3000-2500 2500-2000 2000-1500 Below 1500 Loss

G1 BC 0.791 0.740 0.709 0.665 0.631 - 0.160
G7 BC 0.375 0.367 0.357 0.353 0.355 -0.020


Lapua 180 gr Scenar-L

G1 BC 0.648 0.628 0.624 0.614 0.602 -0.046
G7 BC 0.307 0.312 0.314 0.327 0.340 +0.033


Both bullets are very similar in dimensions and listed as more secant than tangent ogives but the Scenar has a blunt nose yet it gains bc and the Hornady loses it, so while the ELD has a clear advantage at speeds above transonic is it becoming more unstable as speed decreases due to its pointy noise while the Scenar seems to enjoy slowing down?

An engineer I'm not so I may be interpreting a lot of this incorrectly but I have a bad habit of questioning things that don't add up or I don't fully understand.
 

Conrad

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 28, 2006
1,349
67
48
TX
#39
I am shooting coated bullets so maybe that helps my velocity a touch. I'm going to see if I have time to break it out today as I do believe my BC might need a little tweak with the 180 ELDM's. Point being a SAUM loaded long isn't a slouch, so if you wanted more capacity, I'd probably skip the WSM and look at a true long action cartridge...maybe the Nosler.
 

Conrad

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 28, 2006
1,349
67
48
TX
#42
Just a little update on the 7 SAUM. I mistyped and my load is 62.5 gr R26. My labradar showed 3045 FPS avg today. I wanted to true at 1000 but time was limited and the grass has grown a lot with the rain so I put some on steel at 700. I want to do some more work on this but for today at least a .400 G7 lined them up on my watermark line using a Kestrel elite.

I think to take it to the next performance level you need to go Nosler or Norma.
 
#43
Not to be too off topic since you are mainly asking/interested in 7WSM/SAUM. I figured I'd give you my take on a 7mm mile rifle. I shoot a 7RM with 180 hybrids at 3015 fps out of a 28inch 1/8.5 twist bartlein tube using H1000. I built it to be a mile rifle and it will do that and then some. Some people complain that the belted mags are finicky to load for but if you have your load process down they are easy IMHO. My current node using H1000 was 0.6 grains wide and the rifle shoots sub 1/2MOA. If you really want to get the full performance out of the RM throw some RL33 in it with the 180's and you can get an extra 50-100 fps out of it before pressure. I just don't like the temp sensitivity of the RL powders and H1000 seems to be more consistent with larger nodes for my rifle. RL33 was only giving me 0.2-0.3 grain nodes. Brass is available on all shelves and every website.
 
Top Bottom