Why Doesn't B&T Sue Ebay To Hell and Back?

Tucker301

Groundskeeper
Staff member
Feb 13, 2015
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#1
We had a member, knowingly or not, trying sell a cheap Chinese clone Atlas bipod as a real one here the other day.
It didn't go well for them.

So I curiously searched Ebay and found plenty of listings for the knock-offs.
They didn't seem too concerned with trying to hide the fact that they are violating US trademark, copyright, and patent laws. Some even used the Atlas name in the descriptions.
I reported a bunch of them, but I've seen no changes. No action appeared to be taken.

I know the reach is limited to non-existent into China, but why isn't B&T going after Ebay for continuously allowing this crap?

Footnote: Peddle that shit here and you won't be here long.
 

Bradu

Full Member
Aug 24, 2011
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#3
It sucks that those junk fuckers are out there and that people try to sell them as the real thing. A guy locally bought one and I gave him a lot of shit about it but he's a phony cocksucker so he doesn't care. I had the chance to look at it and it's a pile of shit, I love how they unscrew from the tension knob lol. I'm going to guess that he would wrap up a bunch of legal fees and not get anything accomplished.
 
Likes: diverdon

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Oct 1, 2005
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#4
eBay doesn't care, they make money either way.
They are legally protected as long as they pull down a listing when you follow the proper legal protocol and bring it to their attention.

Then the Chinese just make a new gmail account and relist it & then start the game over.

Trump going after the sweetheart deal that we give China on mailing packages where they can ship from china to anywhere in the USA for cheaper than you can mail to the next city, is a great step towards putting a dent in this.

If they have to pay competitive rates for shipping, it will tilt the scales just enough to help with a lot of the flooding of eBay and Amazon that the Chinese peddlers are doing.
 

Strykervet

Resident Phoenix Eye and Dim Mak Instructor
Jun 5, 2011
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#5
Sucks having to dig through Chinese trash and nit pick verify the thing is legitimate.

Shit like this has put other good companies out of business. Many years ago they did this with Miller-Kriesel. They USED to sell one of the best and lowest frequency subwoofers available. I have one, it's badass. It's hard to find a sub that goes low enough for organ music, and now it's basically impossible. I got mine local from a guy who had the papers and bought it new for damn near nothing.

But now you can't find one, since MOST are counterfeit, you're actually looking for the ones that are different from most. Wow. I guess they tried to sue but so many places were doing it and it was in China so he couldn't make anything happen.

I suspect a lot more of this happening.
 
Likes: 1J04
Aug 22, 2010
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#8
The fake atlas got me.....it is a pile and really pissed me off. Emailed the company and nothing really happened. The listing was pulled for about a week until they posted it again.



Didnt Kasey mention quite some time ago that he let an airsoft company use the actual atlas as a model for a replica version?
 

mijp5

Gunny Sergeant
May 7, 2009
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#9
In just about all cases, the fakes on eBay are labeled as such, by using terms like ‘style’. When they are labeled as genuine, they have to be according to the rules. And yes they do have to follow the rules, otherwise there is a defaulted judgment in favor of the buyer with 2 checks and balances; eBay and PayPal. They side with the buyer in almost every case. I’ve done it myself and they make it very easy
 
Likes: 1J04
Feb 15, 2005
138
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Mission, KS
www.donttouchme.com
#10
Forget eBay, as came up on another forum lately, Amazon does this. All sorts of sellers with not the right version, or a straight knockoff. Best you can do is return, give a bad review. But not actually REPORT them as scammers.

This seems short-sighted of these services. You can see it above. We now assume ebay is all knockoffs unless we can prove otherwise, at some significant effort. Why is eBay happy to have that reputation vs preventing that, or fixing it?
 
Likes: 1J04
Jan 6, 2012
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#11
The fake atlas got me.....it is a pile and really pissed me off. Emailed the company and nothing really happened. The listing was pulled for about a week until they posted it again.



Didnt Kasey mention quite some time ago that he let an airsoft company use the actual atlas as a model for a replica version?
If I remember correctly, I believe something was said like the chi-coms would make them either way, might as well license one on them.
 
Likes: woogie_man
Aug 24, 2010
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#12
If I remember correctly, I believe something was said like the chi-coms would make them either way, might as well license one on them.
Licensed imitations are typically conspicuously marked as such too, so they're not just being passed off as the real deal. There's a huge difference between lower quality licensed copies for Cosplay and outright rip-offs of patents. Edit, there's no such thing, there are no licensed Airsoft grade copies. See 8541 Tactical's article here for details.

Speaking of patents, it's not like there aren't other bipod makers who are supported by shooters that also rip off B&T's designs. I choose to not support thieves of any sort.
 
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pmclaine

Gunny Sergeant
Nov 6, 2011
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#14
Why would they sue Ebay or China when our efforts could be spent fighting the "non establishment" President currently in a trade war with China trying to stop this shit across the board.

Has Trump given us his tax returns yet?, thats all that matters.
 
Aug 24, 2010
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#15
Same with Amazon: Chinamart online
Agreed 100% there. I mistakenly missed killing the auto renewal last year from canceling my Prime membership, a mistake I will not be making again. At one time I had quite a stack of Amazon boxes, but they've gone the way of eBay with shit counterfeit goods since, and their legit goods are all available elsewhere for cheaper.
 
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hlee

Sergeant
Jul 14, 2012
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#16
Why? Because B&T is a small company and eBay is not. A law suit is a no win proposition for B&T.

With the number of legitimate places you can go to buy authentic goods, I can't wrap my mind around why people go to eBay and Amazon. Don't get me wrong, I shop Amazon too, but you can often find whatever you are looking for- less expensively- elsewhere. Too good to be true prices are just that.
 
Likes: 1J04
Feb 15, 2005
138
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Mission, KS
www.donttouchme.com
#17
Where do you buy stuff then?

After I fucked up something yesterday, I have stuck a couple water sensors in my Amazon cart. And if I didn't buy from there I guess maybe perhaps I could find them at, Walmart. or get the local hardware store to order some at 3 x the price. But they'd be the same exact product.

There's no choice for a lot of things. No american, or even western europe options for many products. Supply chains means that american stuff is full of chinese bits and pieces. This was a good series on Excel trying to make those very good high speed hand dryers in the US, with all US parts. Couldn't do it. https://www.npr.org/2013/02/05/171179697/why-is-it-so-hard-to-make-a-100-percent-american-hand-dryer
 

Bradu

Full Member
Aug 24, 2011
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#18
Last time I bought from Amazon it took almost two weeks to get to my house. When I had prime it started taking 3-4 days when it said 2 day shipping. Fuck Amazon and yes, I will pay more somewhere else but I will get better service. I won't go into detail on the shitty experience I had when they were too stupid to ship an item that consisted of 3 boxes and how it took over a month to get a full refund for then being fucking idiots
 

hlee

Sergeant
Jul 14, 2012
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#19
A friend of mine makes good money selling goods on eBay. Like quit the day job and sell full time good money. There are algorithms Amazon hooks you into that shows roi on items. He only sells high roi items. His "shop" doesn't have a theme other than "these are the things that I can buy the most cheaply and resell for the most return." Could be aluminum butter dishes, could be old books, whatever is selling. He's not making these goods- he's doing the legwork to find them and buy them for nothing, then sell them on Amazon at a premium. And the kicker is that he is now "consulting," making even more money teaching new sellers how to do it. His first piece of good info is "if you look for it, whatever you want is available somewhere else for less money. Amazon caters to those buyers with money but not time."

I'm not saying "buy American and Americans work." I'm saying look around and you don't need to pay an Amazon premium for the Chinesium Widget. Second to that, many of the shops on Amazon are just like my friend's- Joe's Virtual Emporium of Eclectic Rubbish and Detritus of Questionable Origin. If- as in the OP example- you are looking for an atlas bipod, you can order directly from B&T or Mike High Shooting or EuroOptic or Primary Arms or a dozen their vendors. Money is not so tight in this house that I need to risk getting "Botached" to save a few dollars.

Amazon is easy, and that is the allure. I can fill my cart with goods from dozens of vendors spanning dozens of dozens of genres, never leave my couch, and everything will arrive in a few days. With prime, most things ship for only $100 per year and show up in 2-3 days. The Amazon fairy drops the packages at the door and every day is like Christmas. Need a towel, a jacket, a bike sprocket, a picatinny rail segment, fishing line, socks, Doritos, a wench, and a speaker bar for the home theater? No problem, fill up the Amazon cart and hit the check out now button. No mall, no lines, no spending the day on 23 websites trying to find what you are looking for.

But, buyer beware. The CEO of EBay said it best... If you don't know the difference between a fake and the genuine article and buy the fake, you deserve the fake.
 

Tucker301

Groundskeeper
Staff member
Feb 13, 2015
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#22
When I started this thread I considered posting a link to an Ebay search which would show most of the fake bipods, and then asking members with Ebay accounts to report them.
The primary reason I didn't do that was because I realized that some percentage of the people who clicked the link would end up buying instead of reporting.

I guess it just irks me that someone can develop a product, go to all of the time effort and expense to get their patents, copyrights, trademarks all done correctly, and then see it blatantly ripped off and sold right under their noses with no recourse. Meanwhile, on the other side of the coin, the kinds of people who run Ebay and Amazon prohibit the sale of legal firearms and associated items they have deemed "dangerous" and they support Bloombergonians when they try to sue a legitimate weapons maker because their products were used in crimes.

If we don't push back how do they know we're there?
 

mijp5

Gunny Sergeant
May 7, 2009
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#23
I’ve reported many counterfeit items to eBay, as they encourage it. Unfortunately I think it’s like cutting the head off a hydra. They may not be able to keep up with it
 
Nov 18, 2008
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#24
The company I work for has fought with ebay countless times about counterfeit products being sold on the site. Like someone else mentioned, if they pull the product someone else pops up selling it a few days later. It's a cat and mouse game and ultimately we lose because we do not have the resources or manpower to stop it. The speed at which they can create a new account is much faster than we can find them, fight with ebay and have them remove it.

Amazon is another fucked up company. If someone lists a product first, they somehow own the rights to the content. For example a seller posts a widget you make for sale. They list the features or specs, or maybe even an image. All of it is incorrect. As the manufacturer you try to get the info changed as this is your product being sold. Amazon will not make any changes, or contact the seller to make the changes requested by the manufacturer. So the product reputation could be affected because of someone buying thinking it does X, Y, Z but instead it does A, B, C. And then there are the counterfeits as well...
 

Max

Descendant of John Adams
#25
Freakin ebay deleted one of my ads the other day for using the word “velcro” that I had sewn velcro brand hook and loop into. Copyright violation. They let these Chinese companies post whatever they want. Amazon and eBay have become a briar patch of Chinese clones and knockoffs. If it is something I really care about I don't buy on either.
 

Rthur

Philomath
Apr 16, 2010
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#26
When I started this thread I considered posting a link to an Ebay search which would show most of the fake bipods, and then asking members with Ebay accounts to report them.
The primary reason I didn't do that was because I realized that some percentage of the people who clicked the link would end up buying instead of reporting.

I guess it just irks me that someone can develop a product, go to all of the time effort and expense to get their patents, copyrights, trademarks all done correctly, and then see it blatantly ripped off and sold right under their noses with no recourse. Meanwhile, on the other side of the coin, the kinds of people who run Ebay and Amazon prohibit the sale of legal firearms and associated items they have deemed "dangerous" and they support Bloombergonians when they try to sue a legitimate weapons maker because their products were used in crimes.

If we don't push back how do they know we're there?
Have a friend that owns several Patents.
I had a couple of ideas possibly worthy of a patent.
After speaking with him the patent is only worth what you are willing to spend fighting in court for it.
Extra conus would be near impossible to make any difference.
In my estimation big players/big money will get away with most anything.

R
 

supercorndogs

Ham Fisted Gorilla
Feb 17, 2014
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#27
I’ve reported many counterfeit items to eBay, as they encourage it. Unfortunately I think it’s like cutting the head off a hydra. They may not be able to keep up with it
Na, they could keep up if they wanted. List something with AR15 in the title and see how fast you get a phone call. It will come not long after the add is removed, which will be not long after the listing is made.