What gear will help me the most in prs

Rosst35

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So this is my first year in prs and a little nrl and I love it I currently habe a bregara 6.5 hmr with a vortex pst gen ii 5x25 with a Harris bipod and a cheap scheels rear bag I use just like someone would use a game changer and the only thing I plan on taking into next season is the scope and maybe save the action but I might sell the whole gun and I’m wondering what the best gear would be I plan on either a 6gt or a 224 Valkyrie I’m leaning toward the Valkyrie yo save time and money and allow myself to practice more and I’m gonna put it in a mpa chassis other than that I’m gonna need all new gear what should I keep what should I get to best improve myself and remember I am 21 and have a good job not a great one so I don’t have a ton of money to waste and also I’m going to be taking a class with frank in August to work on my shooting
 

Rosst35

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Stick with what you have and get better. No need to go down that god forsaken wildcat rabbit hole. Just practice, read and research and get yourself a damn shot timer. I’m partial to the CED 7000 but others on the market are awesome as well.
How will a shot timer help just wondering and I’m looking at the Valkyrie because it’s was cheaper to shoot
 
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TacticalDillhole

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How will a shot timer help just wondering and I’m looking at the Valkyrie because it’s was cheaper to shoot
You’d be better served with a 65 creed as an all around rifle. The 224 is nice but at longer distances can really hamper you. Shot timers can help you simulate stages. I use one for getting into and out of positions. Timing myself to be fast and efficient in movements.
 

DaleGribble82

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How will a shot timer help just wondering and I’m looking at the Valkyrie because it’s was cheaper to shoot
Shot timer will help you get faster assuming you are shooting on the clock which if you are competing I know you are on the clock. It’s a great way to see where you are at time wise as well as how much you improve over time. It’s also a great tool to use to judge how quickly you can set up a firing position and engage.
 

DaleGribble82

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You’d be better served with a 65 creed as an all around rifle. The 224 is nice but at longer distances can really hamper you. Shot timers can help you simulate stages. I use one for getting into and out of positions. Timing myself to be fast and efficient in movements.
Damn @TacticalDillhole you would think me and you might know a thing or two 🤙🏻
 
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elmuzzlebreak

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Most I would say is a good rear bag (tab or accuracy first are the top two that come to mind). Shot timer is a great tool to have as are dfats for dry fire practice. Other than that fundamentals will get you the most mileage.
 
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Covertnoob5

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If you wanna buy once cry once on the bipods get a ckye pod. Best there is. Shot timer for working on your speed in positional work. Gamechanger or similar bag to practice with. Get really good with 1 bag first. Dry fire a lot
 
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Bluewater132

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The biggest thing that helped me was investing in a good bag and shooting more. My first couple matches I had a borrowed bag but used a couple others from guys at the match. I liked the Gamechanger a lot and ended up with one.
 
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bourbonbent

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Shot timers are invaluable. They don’t lie, and they induce stress you’re not going to be able to duplicate in your mind. Set it to random delay, I have mine set to as quick as 1/2s, and as long as 10 seconds. I use it for handgun and rifle. It’ll drop a dose of humility, and we all need that. Ego is the enemy of improvement.

The CAL is worth the upgrade, as you’ve been told.

The rest, buy/load ammo. Shoot out barrels. Dry fire, a lot. Learn everything you can from Frank. Be a sponge. Forget everything you think you know and show up as an empty canvas. Assume nothing. Ask questions, and think hard and often about the answers you get. Write everything down, and shoot more barrels out. There are no shortcuts, just hard work and dedication. That’ll take you as far as you’re willing to take it.
 

Rosst35

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So most of you are saying to shoot more I already dry fire as much as possible and shoot a lot but the problem is the cost of ammo how much do u think I could save if I tried hand loading vs going to a 224 time not being included I work night shift so Sundays when no one wants to do anything and I just sit and reload can easily become reloading time
 
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bourbonbent

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After the upfront expenditures on equipment and materials, you can save a lot. When I was your age I did just that, got setup to load for pistol and shot the barrel out of a Springfield Mil Spec. I’ve been loading for rifles since I was 16, and it’s allowed me to afford to shoot a lot more than I otherwise would. I’ve shot the barrels out of a few rifles, and multiple barrels in one of them, even though I have never made much money. I could never have afforded to do that buying factory ammo, and still couldn’t.

Compare cost per round of factory ammo, then price components and amortize them over a set number of rounds, so if you buy an 8lb jug of powder, and 10k primers, etc etc, figure out what that breaks down to in cost per round, first with the initial brass purchase, and then reloads on that brass, obviously subtracting the cost of the brass.

I load on a Dillon RL550B, I think David Tubb still loads on a Dillon but I’m not sure. I know he used to, and they can load extremely accurate ammo. I started on a Lee turret press, any single stage press will get you going. If you can swing the upfront costs involved, loading is the way to go. At least for me.
 
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Subwrx300

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So most of you are saying to shoot more I already dry fire as much as possible and shoot a lot but the problem is the cost of ammo how much do u think I could save if I tried hand loading vs going to a 224 time not being included I work night shift so Sundays when no one wants to do anything and I just sit and reload can easily become reloading time
Don't chase equipment to "get better". Buy a Pint Size Game Changer (awesome as rear bag and barricade support bag), plus 1000 rounds of Hornady 140 ELD factory ammo. That would still be well about 1100-1200.

Dryfire on barricade and make virtual stages to run dryfiring. If you "shoot" 100 stages of dryfire going slowly at first, focusing on basics of muzzle safety, efficient movements, reducing reticle wobble zone and clean trigger press/follow through, you WILL get better very fast.


Regarding buying a new rifle to save "cost", sure it can save you money. BUT you have $1000 into rifle (say Howa 223Rem: accurate, low cost and reliable), 500-$1000 into a scope, plus you still need quality ammo (.75-$1 per round for match grade ammo). So rifle, scope and 1000 rounds of ammo will cost you around 2750-3000 all said an done. That's another 2k rounds of ammo for your bolt gun plus enough money to cover 5-10 match fees and misc costs.

Don't chase gear... Chase practice time and more ammo! After a few matches, reassess where/why you did well vs not so well and find ways to improve the not so well stuff.
 

hlee

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Those are free, and you seem to REALLY need them. The rest you already seem to have.

Sub MOA gun. The bergara is fine. Scope that tracks accurately and returns to zero. The vortex is fine. Bipod. There is nothing wrong with a Harris. Rear bag. If you like yours, rock on. Maybe a tripod. I've never needed one, but some stages may "require" one. Don't chase the new hotness. Spend your money burning out your barrel. Get good at reading the wind. But, deer god, learn punctuation.
 

Fsh4mny

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You can calculate ammo cost on Dillion precision web site with their calculator. I have found my reloading to reduce cost by as much as 1/3 of loaded ammo.
 

b6graham

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the gear that will help the most is what everyone else is running

kidding aside. dryfire and training. ammo. practicing.

and getting things right inside your head. visualize moving from position to position. follow through. body position.
 
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lte82

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I'd get the waxy game changer or new waxy mini fortune cookie, and look at getting a heavy barrel. Something like a 26-28" MTU. That's going to buy you some stability on the barricades immediately, and possibly add a bit of velocity, and not cost a fortune. I would stick with the 6.5 creedmoor. 224V is *not* going to be competitive.
 
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Those are free, and you seem to REALLY need them. The rest you already seem to have.

Sub MOA gun. The bergara is fine. Scope that tracks accurately and returns to zero. The vortex is fine. Bipod. There is nothing wrong with a Harris. Rear bag. If you like yours, rock on. Maybe a tripod. I've never needed one, but some stages may "require" one. Don't chase the new hotness. Spend your money burning out your barrel. Get good at reading the wind. But, deer god, learn punctuation.
This must happen....
deer god.jpg
 

Hollywood 6mm

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You've already got a class planned. GOOD. Once you take Frank's class, you might want to consider one that's focused on competition, as well.
Build your skills. Work on wind reading and position building. Work on effecient movement and time management.
Shoot more. Dry fire more. Do these and concentrate on fundamentals - bad practice doesn't help, you need to practice the RIGHT way.
Buy a Gamechanger. This is the ONE item that actually can help you at matches, but you have to practice with it.
Get into reloading (cheaper, more consistent ammo)
Get out to more places to shoot. Go to one day matches in other locations if you can. The more ranges and stages you see, the better.

DON'T chase the new shiny thing. Skills > gear every time once you get beyond the basics of equipment.
6.5 Creedmoor will do just fine. I would not go to 224 Valk for PRS at all. Stay with 6.5 until you honestly feel like it's somehow holding you back in matches (hint: it probably never will).
 

hlee

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It's what they call me on our lease but I thought it was as appropriate here to but really punctuation is important as is proper sentence construction as well as the concept of separating your thoughts into paragraphs I mean really any rifle that can be shot safely over the course of a stage and can mount a scope and can be loaded efficiently will work the bergara probably isn't holding you back using periods occasionally makes your post read as though you're not a raving lunatic I've got several pst scopes and every one has been an adequate scope that tracks and returns to zero I don't really like the zero stop implementation but I can live with it lack of proper punctuation makes a post harder to read is distracting and turns some away from responding with useful information it also can lead to thread drift there are hundreds of rear bags and every one has its place I own more than I use and have settled on the wiebad fortune cookie but there are times when it is too fat and at those times it would be good to have a mini fortune cookie or a mini game changer the bipod market has been rally exploded on repeat the past decade or so it used to be Harris or nothing the atlas was all the hotness for a while but now the ckye bipod has taken the new hotness spot you can spend big bucks on a bipod one of the guys at tbac posted recently that any bipod less than $400 isn't worth owning I guess he has a point as the bipod they are selling retails right at that point but what does a bipod do it holds your rifle up off the ground you could get the same effect with two arrow shafts and some paracord commas and question marks are important too as are exclamation points hyphens quotation marks apostrophes and semi colons if I had money burning a hole in my pocket and was looking for something to spend it on that would have a good return onninvesentvand would help me score better in PRS matches I would look strongly at reloading it reduces your ammunition cost allows you to shoot more and you can craft ammunition specific to your gun that will be more precise than anything you can buy off the shelf and for less money or you can read the what the pros use blog and buy the most popular equipment none of that will hold you back but none of it will move you from middling to first either
 

brianf

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dont buy anything until you go to class, everything will change

it did for me years ago after my first class (although there wasnt as much info on the Net back then)

when you finally do get to class, listen and learn

keep your ego at home and ask 1000 stupid questions
i felt stupid asking how much weight my head should be putting on the rifle when i was first shown proper prone
the second day he asked me why am i smashing my cheek into the rifle

second thing is no matter who you take a class with (frank from here or another instructor from somewhere else) they are not the all knowing or the only way to do things

each professional class or teacher has their own way (which are all very close at the end of the day) but dont stop learning because "so and so" does it this way

most important have fun with it, its not your job (get pissed like we all do but it still a hobby)...and thats from me who is a f'ing nutcase with the meds to prove it lol
 

pewpewfever

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Reloading will greatly reduce cost and most likely will improve accuracy once you do load development. If you do change rifles, it makes economic sense to wait until you shoot out your current barrel.
 

Sheldon N

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Buy waxed canvas game changer.

Shoot as many matches as possible.

Make sure your dry firing practice is focused on positional (non-prone shooting), and that you are changing position frequently as you practice. Engage target, move, engage, move. Focus on fundamentals, building the position, acquiring the target in scope quickly. Shoot from all heights of positions. Use a timer on your phone to evaluate yourself and put a bit of pressure on slowly increasing speed, without sacrificing fundamentals.

Do the same thing in your live fire practice shooting.

Reload. Hornady brass and ELD-M bullets are both very reasonable in cost and can get you a long way.
 

Dougie308

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So this is my first year in prs and a little nrl and I love it I currently habe a bregara 6.5 hmr with a vortex pst gen ii 5x25 with a Harris bipod and a cheap scheels rear bag I use just like someone would use a game changer and the only thing I plan on taking into next season is the scope and maybe save the action but I might sell the whole gun and I’m wondering what the best gear would be I plan on either a 6gt or a 224 Valkyrie I’m leaning toward the Valkyrie yo save time and money and allow myself to practice more and I’m gonna put it in a mpa chassis other than that I’m gonna need all new gear what should I keep what should I get to best improve myself and remember I am 21 and have a good job not a great one so I don’t have a ton of money to waste and also I’m going to be taking a class with frank in August to work on my shooting
 

Mxridr

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Nothing wrong with Harris save your money. Buy a game changer or tactical udder both very good and learn to use. I use for rear support too. Like others have said “don’t chase the gear”. Practice building positions
 

Bertoli888

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In the last Precision Rifle Expo, Lowlight gave a seminar in which he explained very clearly why he preferred the harris over the atlas. Not trying to start anything here. To each his own...
 
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Tony1320

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I would make sure you set yourself up to shoot as much as you have time to. You will improve the most by being out on the range practicing

I still use a Harris by choice, for prs it's not going to hold you back

Some things I think made a big improvement for me was an fx-120i scale, a kestrel elite, using a quality chronograph (lab radar or magnetospeed), I only use one bag most of the time. I use a pint-sized waxed game changer
 

TacticalDillhole

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In the last Precision Rifle Expo, Lowlight gave a seminar in which he explained very clearly why he preferred the harris over the atlas. Not trying to start anything here. To each his own...
Um I think you got that backwards son. He absolutely does not recommend the Harris. @Lowlight care to clarify
 

mmlook

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Practice.

And don't practice prone stuff. Force yourself to tackle the lousy positional stuff
prone practice is just as important as positional stuff, imo

really depends on how you practice though.

shot a PRS club match yesterday that had 2 prone only stages,
you would be surprised how many shots were dropped, and how many people timed out.
 
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Fred @ Bison Tactical

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Hey, lots of companies like Bison Tactical and others donate bags to local match directors for guys like you to try out. I highly suggest checking in with a local match director, shooting the local 1 day match and seeing if they have any of the donated bags you can try out. Try shooting some stages with the different bags and see what works for you and borrow a bunch of other gear from guys at the local matches. Then when you find something that seems to really work for you and makes things easier buy that piece of gear.

Otherwise you end up like most guys with a big box of bags sitting around that you no longer use :).
 

pineoak

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Don't chase equipment to "get better".

Dryfire on barricade and make virtual stages to run dryfiring. If you "shoot" 100 stages of dryfire going slowly at first, focusing on basics of muzzle safety, efficient movements, reducing reticle wobble zone and clean trigger press/follow through, you WILL get better very fast.

Don't chase gear... Chase practice time and more ammo! After a few matches, reassess where/why you did well vs not so well and find ways to improve the not so well stuff.
^^This is some really really good advice.

A few series of of dry fire every session BEFORE you start live fire will go a REALLY long way toward improvement.

Fundamentals, make sure yours are solid with no gaps/weaknesses. Everything else you do is based on them.
 

RJW6220

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So this is my first year in prs and a little nrl and I love it I currently habe a bregara 6.5 hmr with a vortex pst gen ii 5x25 with a Harris bipod and a cheap scheels rear bag I use just like someone would use a game changer and the only thing I plan on taking into next season is the scope and maybe save the action but I might sell the whole gun and I’m wondering what the best gear would be I plan on either a 6gt or a 224 Valkyrie I’m leaning toward the Valkyrie yo save time and money and allow myself to practice more and I’m gonna put it in a mpa chassis other than that I’m gonna need all new gear what should I keep what should I get to best improve myself and remember I am 21 and have a good job not a great one so I don’t have a ton of money to waste and also I’m going to be taking a class with frank in August to work on my shooting
Stick with the rifle and work on you! I started with a ruger American predator (in an oryx), and it has gotten me into being competitive. Spend the money on practicing and being comfortable with your rifle!

My advise would be to spend some money on a good game changer style bag (I love my seracan). And a tripod and set of binos to make yourself more self sufficient and efficient finding your targets when you get to a stage!
 

Burdy

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i felt stupid asking how much weight my head should be putting on the rifle when i was first shown proper prone
the second day he asked me why am i smashing my cheek into the rifle
So what is the supposed proper answer to this?
 

brianf

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line up behind the rifle
pick you head up
kiss your lower jaw bone tot he cheek rest
let your come straight down

that should push your cheek (loose part) up into the cheek bone
making a chipmunk/puffy cheek

all in all, the weight should be the weight of your head relaxing with no neck tension
 

Burdy

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line up behind the rifle
pick you head up
kiss your lower jaw bone tot he cheek rest
let your come straight down

that should push your cheek (loose part) up into the cheek bone
making a chipmunk/puffy cheek

all in all, the weight should be the weight of your head relaxing with no neck tension
I was figuring that to be the case. I have a very mild case of essential tremor and I started completely removing my neck muscles from the equation because of this to stay steady. My comb height got higher but my shooting improved. I could only deduce, tremor or not, anyone would benefit from removing muscle tension.
 

seansmd

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prone practice is just as important as positional stuff, imo

really depends on how you practice though.

shot a PRS club match yesterday that had 2 prone only stages,
you would be surprised how many shots were dropped, and how many people timed out.
Great point, but the MD threw some curves, no bipod, hard to find targets, elevation that made it a challenge without the bipod.

I needed the game changer in the front on its side and had to use my thumb as a rear rest to get the butt low enough for the far and high target.

Never would have practiced that, will be more creative now.

I also bought the DFAT 11 foot dry fire practice thing for over your scope and allow you to target images at 11 feet away and they have 4x6 images that are firing ranges with targets. I practice with this in my yard, with obstacle transitions and timers and 3+ different targets in the image requiring elevation changes.
 
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Clocked92

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A game changer style bag will be most beneficial along with a bipod. I've run 4 matches so far and haven't felt out-geared by anyone. I've borrowed a couple bags and gear to test out on a few stages but haven't found that "need-to-have" item really. A tripod would be nice, but there is almost always someone in the squad to lend you one.

My past match I can say that I dropped some shots due to not having a proper tripod attachment on my Manners stock (it just has sling swivels in front). Had I been able to attach to a tripod I likely would have done much better on one stage out of 16. Needless to say I ordered an ARCA rail for my stock the day after the match.

Best advice is to go out and shoot and see if anything really holds you back, then buy it. I've placed 4th and 5th out of 50 in two local matches this year without a ton of gear. Don't even have a chrono or a kestrel. Good old fashioned dope check and drop charts made at home have worked for me so far.
 

lts1ow

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prone practice is just as important as positional stuff, imo

really depends on how you practice though.

shot a PRS club match yesterday that had 2 prone only stages,
you would be surprised how many shots were dropped, and how many people timed out.

Ok, I should have clarified, if one is good with prone shooting (as many folks are) stop wasting bullets proving what one already knows. Thats all.

I stopped shooting prone and switched to positional stuff that I needed help with.
 
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mmlook

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Ok, I should have clarified, if one is good with prone shooting (as many folks are) stop wasting bullets proving what one already knows. Thats all.

I stopped shooting prone and switched to positional stuff that I needed help with.
I know what you mean,

I was listening to a podcast about shooting fundamentals,
and one thing that really stuck out to me,
was all positional shooting foundations, should try to mimic the prone position as much as possible, if/when possible

It also, kind of opened my eyes to how in-depth the prone position really is and can be

Probably one of the most important positions to master, imo
something I plan to work on over the summer.
Being able to shoot a 308, no brake, 11lb rifle, prone, and recover from recoil, on target, before the shot hits the target

Great point, but the MD threw some curves, no bipod, hard to find targets, elevation that made it a challenge without the bipod.

I needed the game changer in the front on its side and had to use my thumb as a rear rest to get the butt low enough for the far and high target.

Never would have practiced that, will be more creative now.

I also bought the DFAT 11 foot dry fire practice thing for over your scope and allow you to target images at 11 feet away and they have 4x6 images that are firing ranges with targets. I practice with this in my yard, with obstacle transitions and timers and 3+ different targets in the image requiring elevation changes.
lol, look at the paper stage as well
or the Alice stage

all prone, but people still dropped points
 
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