What’s the latest on Steiner P4XI 4-16?

awpk03s

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I have read that these had some issues when released.... now they are out there for a darn competitive price ~$800.

What’s the consensus on these? Are they good to go these days?

Compared to say Athlon Midas Tac, Burris XTR II, Vortex Viper PST, how do these stack up?
 

TXBO

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I bought one a couple months ago from Doug at Cameraland. Mounted it on an AR. I'd say it's a heck of a value. I've also got a Midas and a XTR II. I like the Steiner better than both. Nice turrets. I tested them up to 10 MILS. Tracked true and returns to zero.
 

longshot2000

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the scope had some issues last year, and from what i understand from Steiner, the issue is fixed. It is a good scope, and a very nice price. We sell a few. The Steiner P series is a great value. You get Steiner quality at a popular price. I think they are very close to Leupold Mark 5, for comparison.

What I love about Steiner and Leupold is that you will never get a bad scope. Some other brands deteriorate quickly if you are not buying top of their line.
 
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awpk03s

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Thanks all. I searched some more and found even more feedback also.

I’ve got one coming to me, looking forward to working with it.
 

Primus

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Let's be clear.. these are not "Steiner" quality. They are subpar burris/Steiner joint quasi made into the USA optics with a piss poor track record of using their customers as beta testers.

Now whether or not they are worth $800.. who knows. I know for the same money one can pick up a lrhs/lrts that has better glass, reticle, tracking and has a proven track record. It's not even a choice for me.
 
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WheatTrader

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I haven’t mounted them yet, but I received two today that I snagged from Cameraland this week. Initial impressions looking out the window.

Great glass
Feels quality
Windage knob feel is perfect for my taste
Elevation knob is good but it is stiff, those with a weak handshake need not apply
Reticle is nice
Illumination needs to be on highest setting and its still not 100% daylight visible to me, not a big deal as I don’t use that

For $800 bucks per I am happy as can be. If they had a higher mag version would probably order it today.

Anybody know what height seekins rings I need to mount to a Tikka CTR and a flattop AR?
 

supercorndogs

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It compares quite well with the LRTS or LRHS. If you want .2 wind holds, i would suggest it over the Bushnell. Pretty much which reticle works better for your application. I like the Steiner with the SCR on my 223 because I shoot a lot of small targets. The non illum G3 is pretty good for small targets too, its gets very thin in the center, but generally you will spend more on the LRTS than the LRHS.


LOL. I love it when some said. "Lets be clear." Like they have some inside knowledge. Then goes off on a brand hate based tirade. Never even looked at it. Like anyone was expecting a 3k Steiner M for 800 bucks. GTFO. :LOL::ROFLMAO:😂
 

Sako man

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LOL. I love it when some said. "Lets be clear." Like they have some inside knowledge. Then goes off on a brand hate based tirade. Never even looked at it. Like anyone was expecting a 3k Steiner M for 800 bucks. GTFO. :LOL::ROFLMAO:😂
Hey, remember that guy has special insider knowledge that none of us mortals are privy too, LOL! Man, his shit get's old really quick. :p

That aside, these optics look interesting to me, as well it has it's place in the market. Frankly I'm glad to see more competition in that space, it's good for the sport, let alone the end users.
 

Primus

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Stop following me around and posting in every thread. You have zero experience yet want to try and talk shit. I don't know what your deal is but don't forget to take your meds.
 

spife7980

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Where can you get a new LRHS/LRTS for $800 now a days? (Genuine question)
No where really. There was a run of the lrhs for 750 but everything else has been in the 1-1.1k range that Ive seen. Occasionally there is a rebate offered that can drop it but its not an every day thing. Used they can be found for 800-1k.
 
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The King

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What amazes me is how much a CNC machine doesn’t care where the parts were made - and this how the USA made Steiners shouldn’t really be that much worse than the German ones.

That said, they never do seem to get them right the first time. Like the T5s and this one now.

The one I handled at the store had the kind of elevation knob that made you want to get a tool of some sort.
 

Primus

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Because craftsmanship and pride is important to some while squeezing every last penny in the profit margin is important to others.

A CNC is only as good as the programmer and machinist. A scope is only as good as the designer, manufacter and quality inspector. Short change any of these and Steiner USA is what you get.

It's kind of crazy how the rest of the Beretta group makes fantastic products around the world. I have about $20k in Beretta shotguns plus all manners of tikka, stiener, uberti and Sako. They all scream quality for the price point. German Steiners are the same way.

Beretta should have never bought the shitheel that is Burris. Other than stoeger which is an obvious budget brand... One of these does not look like the rest.

So the common denominator is Burris/Steiner usa. Buy accordingly.
 
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koshkin

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What amazes me is how much a CNC machine doesn’t care where the parts were made - and this how the USA made Steiners shouldn’t really be that much worse than the German ones.

That said, they never do seem to get them right the first time. Like the T5s and this one now.

The one I handled at the store had the kind of elevation knob that made you want to get a tool of some sort.

Some changes have been made. I have great hopes for Burris/Steiner going forward, but time will tell, of course.

ILya
 

flyer

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This is why I think Chinese scopes will be catching up to the Japanese rapidly.

Once they figure out the proper design and QC, they'll be able to make the mechanics of a scope just as well as anyone (as long as they don't use mystery metal).

Everyone is getting better on the optical design but I still give the Europeans a slight edge.

After that it's glass, grind and coatings and I think Schott opened a glass plant in China. A lot of that technology is going to get stolen except for the good stuff Schott keeps in Germany. That will be enough for the Chinese to make some nice optics if they get the grinds and coatings right too.
 

Primus

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This is why I think Chinese scopes will be catching up to the Japanese rapidly.

Once they figure out the proper design and QC, they'll be able to make the mechanics of a scope just as well as anyone (as long as they don't use mystery metal).

Everyone is getting better on the optical design but I still give the Europeans a slight edge.

After that it's glass, grind and coatings and I think Schott opened a glass plant in China. A lot of that technology is going to get stolen except for the good stuff Schott keeps in Germany. That will be enough for the Chinese to make some nice optics if they get the grinds and coatings right too.
Some of it is cultural too. Chicoms have a shit culture...thank God. It's a society based on stealing and emulating others. Which works great when you are trying to catch up technology wise but they are incappable of innovation. We should be thanking God that even with stealing every piece of advanced Western tech, they still can't build things like a jet engine or other advanced military tech at a competent level.

Anything worth a shit coming out of China is most likely Western tech with Western management on the ground. As been seen millions of times... Take away the white boot out of their ass, and they revert back to their ways. Let's pray they never learn to think for themselves.
 
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koshkin

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This is why I think Chinese scopes will be catching up to the Japanese rapidly.

Once they figure out the proper design and QC, they'll be able to make the mechanics of a scope just as well as anyone (as long as they don't use mystery metal).

Everyone is getting better on the optical design but I still give the Europeans a slight edge.

After that it's glass, grind and coatings and I think Schott opened a glass plant in China. A lot of that technology is going to get stolen except for the good stuff Schott keeps in Germany. That will be enough for the Chinese to make some nice optics if they get the grinds and coatings right too.

Chinese are perfectly capable of good QC at this stage and of very respectable design. It is a matter of cost and intent more than anything else.

They can probably reverse engineer a Tangent Theta and make a replica that is pretty damn close. However, it will still cost a lot of money. Not as much as the Canadian made scope, but still more than people are currently willing to pay for a Chinese product.

Can they make it as consistently as TT can? Not yet, but they are getting better every year.

I was astounded at the quality of Athlon Ares ETR when I first saw it and it seems to be holding up fairly well. If this scope was introduced 5-6 years ago with the same quality, noone would have bought it because of perception.

Now, it seems to be doing pretty well and competing quite decently with scopes in its price range and a little higher.

Perhaps, in a couple of years we will see a $2000 Chinese scope that will compete well with the Euro stuff. In the meantime, China is no longer a cheap place to make optics in, so I wonder what will be coming out of less expensive places like Vietnam that is beginning to see some optics factories pop up.

ILya
 

Primus

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Maybe they will. With Isreal continuing to sell top secret US mil tech to China maybe more Americans will one day die as a result. With friends like these who needs enemies?
 

flyer

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China's culture is changing too. The old bosses of their copycat factories are dying off and the business brought in with foreign investment in design centers and factories is rubbing off on the newer generations.

They will probably always have the government subsidizing production until they build a huge market position by pricing their competition out of the market. They will always be able to pluck farmers out of the countryside and train them up to assemble scopes so most of the labor that is left is cheap...
 

Primus

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Ilya is correct about cost. It's getting much more expensive to manufacture in China. It's really a few different countries. The seaboard regions are very modern with high cost and quality of living (for China). These people want American jeans and iPhone and social media and good wages and all that shit. Cost is not what it was and is getting more expensive.

The western part of China is mostly rural and agriculture rules these areas. Mostly poor people treated like shit by the gov, including the 1+ million Muslims in concentration camps. There is a massive divide in China where there is about 100 years of technological difference. Without slave labor many things just aren't worth making in China.

Their monetary policies suck and they are on the brink of collapse if we stop buying their shit . Everything from their real estate market to stock market to construction industry is a giant bubble. Like the US dollar that requires constant expansion so does this market. The western world is already saturated with cheap Chinese shit so they are trying to expand to Africa and south America to keep the game going. Problem is they are as poorer and can barley buy their shit.

China is in a bad way and as long as Trump can keep turning the screws (and dumb fucking American companies and us gov stop giving the boat away) they are fucked.

So stop buying garbage from China, where every dollar spent strengthens Chinese military and weakens us industry. It would be like buying kugerands from the Nazis who used the money to make more v2 rockets and tanks.
 

flyer

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Another thing I didn't mention is that if you want to run a factory for the government, they will build the building for you and probably help you with the machines. It doesn't cost them much because they are building new cities every month. You just have to agree to employ a certain number of people pretty much permanently.
 

supercorndogs

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No one was even talking to you clown shoes... Glad your here to defend your girlfriend. Your not even in the right thread but next time, educate yourself. Stop being petty, it's pathetic.
Let be clear. You are talking to the internet. You are talking to everyone. This is not a private conversation.

You are talking about manufacturing costs and QC, of chinese scopes in a thread about an American scope, where someone queried how it compared to a Japanese scope.....but I am not in the wrong thread. :LOL:🤣😂
 

supercorndogs

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What amazes me is how much a CNC machine doesn’t care where the parts were made - and this how the USA made Steiners shouldn’t really be that much worse than the German ones.

That said, they never do seem to get them right the first time. Like the T5s and this one now.

The one I handled at the store had the kind of elevation knob that made you want to get a tool of some sort.
Mine has loosened up some with use. Maybe the stiffness is what some people like about them. I don't know. They sure aren't getting turned by accident on mine.
 

TXBO

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Mine has loosened up some with use. Maybe the stiffness is what some people like about them. I don't know. They sure aren't getting turned by accident on mine.
I do like my turrets a little on the stiff side. These are and they're also quite audible and tactile. If they're to tight for ya, get your husband to turn 'em for ya. :cool:
 

flyer

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Sorry, when I hear about scopes designed in one place and built in another, I always think about Asian manufacturing because of the global economy.

I figure if it becomes hard to look down on a Chinese scope, a well made American scope will be better because we usually don't try to compete on the low end.
 

supercorndogs

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I do like my turrets a little on the stiff side. These are and they're also quite audible and tactile. If they're to tight for ya, get your husband to turn 'em for ya. :cool:
If you felt the turrets on mine out of the box. It was way stiffer than the stiffest SWFA 5-20 parallax knob ever released. I was afraid I was going to break something. I finally loosened the turret cover. Gripped the turret cover with one hand and the scope body with the other. Then I finally broke it loose and got it moving. You still aren't turing it with your finger tips. We shall see what happens in cold weather. It may turn into a hold over scope without a set of these.

7066364

They would have thrown mine back if they opened it for a demo model, that's for sure. :ROFLMAO:
 
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TXBO

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If you felt the turrets on mine out of the box. It was way stiffer than the stiffest SWFA 5-20 parallax knob ever released. I was afraid I was going to break something. I finally loosened the turret cover. Gripped the turret cover with one hand and the scope body with the other. Then I finally broke it loose and got it moving. You still aren't turing it with your finger tips. We shall see what happens in cold weather. It may turn into a hold over scope without a set of these.

View attachment 7066364
LMAO! Mine's nothing like that. You should consider sending it back. Mine may be a little stiffer than my Razor Gen II but not by much.
 

supercorndogs

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LMAO! Mine's nothing like that. You should consider sending it back. Mine may be a little stiffer than my Razor Gen II but not by much.
I did, received it back with paper work indicating tracking and parallax were, ok. (y):ROFLMAO: Its useable, maybe in the winter I can get Hulk Hogan to gay marry me and perform sight adjustments.

Its also possible it will feel the same in the cold, or will be loosened up by then. They loosened up considerably just turning them back and forth several dozen times. I should have sent it in before I messed with it. I feel like they didn't take it seriously because I had gotten them to loosen up some on my own, and they didn't get a full feel for the problem.
 
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The King

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i need my turret to be perfect, and not something that needs a rubber jar opener to use.

The one I handled in the store almost couldn’t be turned by hand. And I’m a serious guitarist - it’s amazing how strong that makes your left hand over time.

There is no call for a “is this a locking turret that I just fucked up” knob turn.
 

Sako man

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Ilya is correct about cost. It's getting much more expensive to manufacture in China. It's really a few different countries. The seaboard regions are very modern with high cost and quality of living (for China). These people want American jeans and iPhone and social media and good wages and all that shit. Cost is not what it was and is getting more expensive.
Primus, surprisingly I agree with you on a few of your assertions. Why purposely purchase Chinese products, especially when it's at the detriment of our national interests? I can say this is I have a good deal of experience with product design and manufacturing overseas. As it stands culturally mainland Chinese can't think for themselves, with a few exceptions. One reason for this is because many of the creative individuals either escaped to Taiwan or were killed off during the cultural revolution.

China can build amazing stuff but they usually need westerners overseeing QC. All this said, Athlon is an American company and I have less of an issue with it doing some of it's manufacturing overseas.
 

awpk03s

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Back on topic...
I got my P4XI 4-16x56 today from Camera Land. Well packaged, and factory box was sealed with the Steiner tape/stickers. The glass was beautiful, also it really gathered the light well at dusk when I was looking through it.
All of the knobs turned and worked fine.
Turrets are indeed stiff, I feel like will just take some finesse to get used to, work in, or something. They sure as shit won’t get turnt by accident, so that’s a good thing.

I’m definitely happy with it for an initial unboxing/hands on. It will be awhile before I mount it on a rifle (all I have is an action, waiting on barrel and stock) and get to actually shoot with it.
 
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Primus

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Love how someone buys an optic and same day already is an expert on it. There is a reason lowlight would actually use something for a few months before reviewing it. Not to mention what's your reference? How many alpha scopes do you own? Someone who the nicest scope they ever used was a Leupold rifleman would think a $800 is the great shit they ever see , because it is. People who make reviews within hours of getting something are usually these types. They don't even know ow what good turrets or glass actually is. Ignorance is bliss.
 

supercorndogs

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Love how someone is an expert on it with out touching it. Bra BLA fuckin BLA I hate Steiner/burris. :rolleyes: BLa Bla I am a fucking expert bullshitter.

Thanks Cheech. We appreciate it, and are taking notes. (y):ROFLMAO::LOL::ROFLMAO:
 
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LloydBraun

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Picked one up P4Xi as a backup for my backup PRS rifle. Built a fixture to check tracking and up and down from zero to 5, to 10, to 15 MILS up it was right on. Reticle lines up perfect. Did it multiple times. My main scope Gen 1 Razor was right on through 5, and 10 mils up but is .2 low at 15 mils. As a side note my SWFA 20x42 fixed tracked perfectly but the reticle was off by almost a mil. The SWFA 5-20 HD tracked perfectly through 0 to 15 MIlS up and the reticle was right on.
 

Sako man

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Picked one up P4Xi as a backup for my backup PRS rifle. Built a fixture to check tracking and up and down from zero to 5, to 10, to 15 MILS up it was right on. Reticle lines up perfect. Did it multiple times. My main scope Gen 1 Razor was right on through 5, and 10 mils up but is .2 low at 15 mils. As a side note my SWFA 20x42 fixed tracked perfectly but the reticle was off by almost a mil. The SWFA 5-20 HD tracked perfectly through 0 to 15 MIlS up and the reticle was right on.
Nice, I am debating between a P4Xi and a SHV, going on a big gas gun. Thanks for the hands on note.
 

LloydBraun

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The elevation turret is stiff very stiff. But feel solid and audible. I’ve run it in 2 PRS matches so far and last one in heavy rain and had no trouble making adjustments. But if you had weak hands or a medical issue with finger strength it might be a issue for some.
 

Americancheese

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I am just bummed I didn’t just use crappy Chinese glass before purchasing the P4x...i would have enjoyed it more. Be that as it may, I am currently running a NF atacr and MK5 HD so I will be able to provide a good review once I receive the scope. Based on the reviews and feedback, throwing $799 on a Steiner was worth the risk to me, and I hope it works out on my .308 Tikka Tac A1