Welcome to the Camps.... Don't buy a PRS membership

corey4

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Absolutely. If I want to shoot as a non PRS member, charge me $10 more, or $20. Let first time guys shoot for free, squad them up with mentors. This isn't rocket science. Put a stop to the drama and prima donnas.
The main reason I stopped uspsa and steel challenge (all local club matched that didn't mean squat) was because of the drama, egos and prima donnas. God forbide if a new guy got squaded with one of the cool guys.
 
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Hollywood 6mm

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The main reason I stopped uspsa and steel challenge (all local club matched that didn't mean squat) was because of the drama, egos and prima donnas. God forbide if a new guy got squaded with one of the cool guys.
I haven't spent much time around the USPSA community outside of our local matches in decades (my dad was big into it back then), but I will say the local matches at Core/Altus have been the exact opposite - extremely welcoming of new shooters. I've seen experienced, national-level B/A/M/GM shooters pull range bags out of their car and hand them over to newbies that were running sub-par gear and tell them to grab whatever they needed (pistol and mags included) on several occasions. I've seen the same behavior at our local PR matches, as well. It definitely depends on your local community.
 

LH_Gina

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I would like to see a maximum cost put on matches. I know people have complained about the lower costing matches being a negative for the spread of the sport, but it seems like $30 is good for the growth as opposed to $90 in the NorthEast. I understand some are private ranges and some are people shooting on others, but 3 times the price seems a bit extreme hearing about some of the others that are under $60. What is everyone else paying for match fees for a 1 day regional (club) match? Do you guys have prize tables or anything?
Our club matches cost $40. Our matches are 6-8 stages with 60-80 rounds. Half goes to the range, the other half goes to the club. We spend the extra money on scoring tablets, paint, steel, t-posts, material for props that we build ourselves, timers, click counters, batteries, and in 2019 - trophies. We run 12 matches a year plus a clinic, so we don't have a prize table at any of them unless a company or one of our shooters donates something and those items are always raffled off.
 

Frontlinedefenseusa

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I think it’s great that I make $9,000 dollars in a one day match and ride the PRS name to fill my matches and they get nothing in return. Website runs for free. I make a killing. Y’all keep on and there will be nothing. Some of us don’t have to hold Matches. We make money from training and memberships. This is really making the sport not enjoyable anymore.
 

Rob01

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I think it’s great that I make $9,000 dollars in a one day match and ride the PRS name to fill my matches and they get nothing in return. Website runs for free. I make a killing. Y’all keep on and there will be nothing. Some of us don’t have to hold Matches. We make money from training and memberships. This is really making the sport not enjoyable anymore.
Paul you were filling the matches without the name due to having a great facility and fun stages of fire. Look forward to making the one day matches again this year.
 

Triple D

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I think it’s great that I make $9,000 dollars in a one day match and ride the PRS name to fill my matches and they get nothing in return. Website runs for free. I make a killing. Y’all keep on and there will be nothing. Some of us don’t have to hold Matches. We make money from training and memberships. This is really making the sport not enjoyable anymore.
So many questions after this post.

You couldn’t run a match without using the PRS name?

If you’re making a killing, and using the PRS name to do it (your words), perhaps a royalty or licensing fee should be paid.

I’m not torn one way or the other, but matches were run well before the PRS. They’ll run long after as well. The PRS is a well known name, but they don’t control all tactical field matches.
 

kindabitey

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So many questions after this post.

You couldn’t run a match without using the PRS name?

If you’re making a killing, and using the PRS name to do it (your words), perhaps a royalty or licensing fee should be paid.

I’m not torn one way or the other, but matches were run well before the PRS. They’ll run long after as well. The PRS is a well known name, but they don’t control all tactical field matches.
You may have missed the sarcastic tone :cool:
 

RoterJager

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^^^^
I think he was poking fun of people thinking the MDs get rich and the PRS does nothing for the MDs. I don't think he's pulling in $9k per 1 day match. Though I could be mistaken. Hard to discern sarcasm online
 
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Jefe's Dope

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See now if I was MD and wanted to make some real money.... Food and beverage service on site fully staffed and delicious will get literally all of Bubba's money
Went to the RV show yesterday. Tickets were free since my wife's employer has a booth. $20 for two cocktails, $16.20 + tip, then $30.50 for two cheese steaks and two bottled Cokes. No chips, no fries, no pickle on the side. And why most facilities either reserve vending of food and beverages for themselves or lease them out to the event holder for a guaranteed profit.
 

THEIS

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Hi,

So we have the following examples of product cost, yet nobody bats on eye:

$400 Bipods
$1500 Tripod Setups
$400 Scope Mounts
$3000 Scopes
$4500 Rifles
$250 Bags/Pillows/Ice Chest
$300 Arca Plates/Etc
$100 Jerseys

But being TOLD they have to spend $40 per year for membership and brain to eye nerve endings start to fry.....

Sincerely,
Theis
 

CavScout85

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Hi,

So we have the following examples of product cost, yet nobody bats on eye:

$400 Bipods
$1500 Tripod Setups
$400 Scope Mounts
$3000 Scopes
$4500 Rifles
$250 Bags/Pillows/Ice Chest
$300 Arca Plates/Etc
$100 Jerseys

But being TOLD they have to spend $40 per year for membership and brain to eye nerve endings start to fry.....

Sincerely,
Theis
It's a little ridiculous, isn't it? Same guys that probably won't spend a dime on training, cause they know how to shoot.
 
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Dthomas3523

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Hi,

So we have the following examples of product cost, yet nobody bats on eye:

$400 Bipods
$1500 Tripod Setups
$400 Scope Mounts
$3000 Scopes
$4500 Rifles
$250 Bags/Pillows/Ice Chest
$300 Arca Plates/Etc
$100 Jerseys

But being TOLD they have to spend $40 per year for membership and brain to eye nerve endings start to fry.....

Sincerely,
Theis
As much as I don’t care about $40.00, if you TOLD someone they had to do any of those, regardless of price, they’d try to buck it. Even if they were about to spend the money anyway.

We humans are weird with that whole free will thing.
 

KZP

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Hi,

So we have the following examples of product cost, yet nobody bats on eye:

$400 Bipods
$1500 Tripod Setups
$400 Scope Mounts
$3000 Scopes
$4500 Rifles
$250 Bags/Pillows/Ice Chest
$300 Arca Plates/Etc
$100 Jerseys

But being TOLD they have to spend $40 per year for membership and brain to eye nerve endings start to fry.....

Sincerely,
Theis
So the lesson here is that the yearly membership fee should be $575 instead of $40 and more people will be willing to pay it.
 
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Cjwise5

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Hi,

What in the world does him being a "new member" here or not have anything to do with him being allowed to post his thoughts?
That mindset lends itself EXACTLY to his thread title don't you think??

Sincerely,
Theis
Him being a new member...I mentioned that because he most likely came over here only after being shut down for his opinions on the Facebook group page.
 

Cjwise5

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Gonna pose the same question I posed on the FB thread when it was mentioned that the MDs votes on it.......

Do you agree with everything Congress does? They take years and 500+ people who vote on it.

(And this isn’t a political question, it’s pointing out the arguement of “but it was voted on by this group” is an invalid arguement if whether it’s the right thing)
Point taken, but is it “wrong” to expect people to support the organization that makes their shooting lives better? I don’t think so. I personally think it’s money well spent and a small price to pay for being a part of the manufacturer discount program among other things the PRS does obviously.
 
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Dthomas3523

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Point taken, but is it “wrong” to expect people to support the organization that makes their shooting lives better? I don’t think so. I personally think it’s money well spent and a small price to pay for being a part of the manufacturer discount program among other things the PRS does obviously.
I agree. And I’m all for them making more than $40 per person per season if they can. I’d personally pay it if I was in SE or if it goes nationwide.

I believe everyone involved has good intentions, just needs to be a bit more creative to get around the psyche of most consumers.
 
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MountainHunter

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I agree. And I’m all for them making more than $40 per person per season if they can. I’d personally pay it if I was in SE or if it goes nationwide.

I believe everyone involved has good intentions, just needs to be a bit more creative to get around the psyche of most consumers.
Where are you located? My local range/club signed up all our matches for the Rocky Mountain club series this year. I plan on paying the $40 in hopes that it will help them address some of the issues they want to fix and hopefully help the sport get better.
 

Raptor005

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For what it's worth, Shannon is headed in the right direction, but I dont think it was implemented (maybe just communicated) properly. In order to foster growth in the sport, the governing body needs to have cash flow, in and out. Running on borrowed time is not scalable.

However, if a shooter is required to have a PRS membership to shoot a match, the match needs to be hosted by the PRS, not just a PRS sanctioned match.

Hosted: PRS supplies the upfront cash and people to run the match
Sanctioned: PRS gives official permission or approval for the match to count towards PRS points/rankings

If the PRS wants to host a match, then they certainly have every right to require a membership.

If a range runs a PRS Sanctioned match, then I agree that there should be an extra cost and/or priority registration for PRS members, but dont limit it to just members.

The problem this initially brought up wasn't the cost of a membership (we can all agree $40 is not much money for this sport), but the fact that this rule would limit matches for non-members. If matches are still going to be run independently by the ranges, but PRS tries to force the membership rule, either the range, shooters, or PRS will be negatively impacted.

Admittedly, this is an extremely simplified explanation of the dilemma here, but I think it touches on the main points.
 
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MountainHunter

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For what it's worth, Shannon is headed in the right direction, but I dont think it was implemented (maybe just communicated) properly. In order to foster growth in the sport, the governing body needs to have cash flow, in and out. Running on borrowed time is not scalable.

However, if a shooter is required to have a PRS membership to shoot a match, the match needs to be hosted by the PRS, not just a PRS sanctioned match.

Hosted: PRS supplies the upfront cash and people to run the match
Sanctioned: PRS gives official permission or approval for the match to count towards PRS points/rankings

If the PRS wants to host a match, then they certainly have every right to require a membership.

If a range runs a PRS Sanctioned match, then I agree that there should be an extra cost and/or priority registration for PRS members, but dont limit it to just members.

The problem this initially brought up wasn't the cost of a membership (we can all agree $40 is not much money for this sport), but the fact that this rule would limit matches for non-members. If matches are still going to be run independently by the ranges, but PRS tries to force the membership rule, either the range, shooters, or PRS will be negatively impacted.

Admittedly, this is an extremely simplified explanation of the dilemma here, but I think it touches on the main points.
Excellent breakdown of the situation!

I was not thinking about it in those terms.
 
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lash

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Since this first broke, I’ve come around to supporting the efforts of Shannon and Co. Never mind all of the (valid) concerns or reasons that might negate agreement. I’ve decided that despite not being in any position to compete in the series, the current status of the SE precision rifle community requires an additional draw to fill local one day matches and to draw new shooters with their eye on the prize.

In the past 5 years alone, I’ve seen the SE region explode with precision rifle shooting interest and therefore clubs offering the possibility to shoot matches. This means that in Florida alone, there has been a growth from merely two venues in the state to over eight places offering one day matches (that I know of).

Competition is not a bad thing, it forces change, usually for the better. Sometimes that change seems hard to swallow at first, but change will happen nonetheless. I say, let’s move forward and advance the sport.
 
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dcnyli

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aside from the completely classless and ignorant title to this thread as well as offensive references to the holocaust, if $40 is an issue then PRS or for that matter most firearms related series are not for you.

If you don't like it, don't play.
 

lash

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Watching one day matches filling up at Frontline I don't think anything was needed to draw more shooters. They were coming.
How many local matches (say within a 4-hour drive) are there in your locale? I’m talking that here in central Florida, there are no fewer than six different one day matches in any single given month competing for shooters. Some are at top notch venues similar to frontline. More spartan venues with little opportunity for physical improvement have to offer something that the shooters want. Today, that happens to be PRS points for many.
 

Rob01

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There are three or 4 in easy driving distance. They have had a series going on and had one last year which filled and I think there was close to 120 shooters in the series finale. No PRS points but plenty of shooters who like to shoot. Will be the same this year.

It's funny this discussion is a deja vu of 2012 when the PRS came to be. I have no problem with the PRS doing what they do but when that becomes forcing people to join to shoot matches they have been shooting for years without having to join for only a coozie, keeping track of scores, and the chance of shooting a finale they may or may not even care about then that's a problem. They were smart to rescind and make it voluntary.
 

regnar375

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The club in NH has a shoot Sat. it will no longer be affiliated with PRS. I am new, So my question is this, in the past when a club held a match that was associated with prs, did they, PRS, get any of the money from entry fees?
 

morganlamprecht

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The club in NH has a shoot Sat. it will no longer be affiliated with PRS. I am new, So my question is this, in the past when a club held a match that was associated with prs, did they, PRS, get any of the money from entry fees?
in the past, like 3 yrs ago, you had to pay a small fee/shooter to submit scores to the prs

i think 2 yrs ago, when brian took over he axed the club match submit fee...so regions were hosting "prs sanctioned events" and the prs got nothing from it

my timeline might not be correct, but basically, there was a fee, it was removed by a new owner, and now theres a new owner putting it back

like raptor mentioned above, the prs as a business is trying to grow... a while back when the prs suggested MDs paying a small fee taken from their match fees to submit scores, they all threw a fit

then it got pushed to the shooters, and then they all threw a fit...
 
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The Durk

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I'm still wrapping my mind around this, since this will be my first year in PRS.

First, is there a cutoff date for membership dues?

Second, as a Strongman competitor, I have to pay to be a competitor (Strongman Corporation $50/year membership), and I also have to pay per event ($50-100) I compete in. I'm having difficulty understanding why its a big issue? Especially considering all the money even a beginner has tied up in gear. An extra $120 something doesn't even cover ammo costs of one match.

Sorry if I seem dense but I'm just not understanding the issue.
 

Hollywood 6mm

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I'm still wrapping my mind around this, since this will be my first year in PRS.

First, is there a cutoff date for membership dues?

Second, as a Strongman competitor, I have to pay to be a competitor (Strongman Corporation $50/year membership), and I also have to pay per event ($50-100) I compete in. I'm having difficulty understanding why its a big issue? Especially considering all the money even a beginner has tied up in gear. An extra $120 something doesn't even cover ammo costs of one match.

Sorry if I seem dense but I'm just not understanding the issue.
Many of the complaints were focused around new shooters that sign up for a match to try the sport, and them being forced to pay an additional fee to join an organization they may never see again. Some of them were also focused around casual shooters that want to shoot one day matches for fun and don't give a single care about how they rank in their region, nationally, etc - they just want to shoot a couple matches a year for fun. Those shooters were effectively being told they would have to purchase a product (PRS membership) whether they wanted it or not, even if it didn't have any direct benefits for them. People tend to not react well to being compelled to buy something against their will (see Obamacare).
 

The Durk

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Well, like I said, I'm used to paying an entrance fee before even competing. It happens in a heck of a lot of other coordinated sports. Powerlifting is the same way.....but I'm also an all in or nothing kind of guy.
 

Hollywood 6mm

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Well, like I said, I'm used to paying an entrance fee before even competing. It happens in a heck of a lot of other coordinated sports. Powerlifting is the same way.....but I'm also an all in or nothing kind of guy.
Under the change the PRS announced (which got rescinded within 24h), you'd be paying an annual $40 fee (or $120 if you also want 2-day scores to count) to shoot matches on top of the $60-100 match fee per match. You're right that in the grand scheme of things, the extra $40 (or $20 if upgrading a 'Pro' membership) isn't that much, but it was a change that was announced without any real warning after match sign ups had already opened for many venues for winter/spring matches (I know Alabama Precision and Altus had already opened signups for their matches). So now people that had signed up for matches were being told "Oh, by the way, you can't shoot that match without a membership." I also found it interesting that this was only being enforced in the SE region, and only for 1-day matches - you could be a complete newbie and sign up for a 2-day PRS match with no membership at all. That seemed kinda backwards to me, but whatever...

It's also worth noting that the 2019 PRS rule book, as originally published, stated that you would have to be a paid PRS member to sign up for designated "qualifier" 2-day events, and that change was also rescinded shortly after the discussion was brought up in the FB group. That's actually a change I could understand and get behind, but its been kicked down the road (presumably to 2020).
 

The Durk

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Ok so the fact that it wasn’t communicated that this change was coming, I can understand. I get it now.
 

Hollywood 6mm

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Ok so the fact that it wasn’t communicated that this change was coming, I can understand. I get it now.
Yep. I understand that when new leadership takes over, there's going to be changes - it's expected, honestly. There's some changes that can be implemented right away with minimal impact, like the additional of qualifier matches. They now are requiring you to shoot a qualifier match to make the finale (and damn near half the schedule is made of qualifier matches) and making it where your 3 scores to qualify for the finale must contain a qualifier - not a big deal, minimal impact.

I wish I could give a standing ovation to the decision to announce before the first match of the year where the finale will be held, when it will be, and what the cutoff will be to get invited. Not knowing any of that until half way through the season has driven me NUTS in previous seasons, so knowing it in January is awesome. Seriously, that change was long overdue.

I think the announced (and rescinded) changes to require regional memberships for SE club matches and requiring PRS pro series memberships for the qualifiers should have been held over to the 2020 season and announced well in advance (IE: Before the 2019 finale) to give the members time to plan and/or provide feedback... but that's just my half cent.
 
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