Tremor3 a waste?

PA Tony

New Hide Member
Apr 15, 2018
4
4
3
#1
Getting ready to buy my first top-tier scope. It will be going on a custom-built rifle that would be top level in PRS. I was planning on putting the Nightforce 7-35 scope on it with the Tremor 3 reticle. I'm just trying to figure out if I'm wasting money on that reticle. It looks very cluttered to me and I just don't know if it would make sense to get it. I understand the concept but I'm really not sure that it will be worth looking at it all the time. I also don't know if it will increase the accuracy of hold off due to wind . The truth is I'm building this gun for recreational use and most likely won't even compete due to time constraints. But if the reticle is actually useful I'd like to get it. Saving the extra $400 would be nice too but the last thing I want to do is regret it. would appreciate
 
Likes: Bender

Bender

Something witty here
Feb 12, 2014
2,679
2,284
113
Cheyenne WY.
#2
If you are not competing, and you already think it looks too cluttered, I think you’ve answered your own question. I think the Bushnell G2/G3 is as busy as a Reticle should ever get. Of course that is just my opinion. I don’t compete either, and just have a modified Mil dot in my Weaver 6-30x56. I would save the $400 and use it on ammunition.
 

PA Tony

New Hide Member
Apr 15, 2018
4
4
3
#3
One thing I've learned over the years is that my first impression is not always right. I do think it looks cluttered but after using it I'm wondering if I would really like it. I've never really shot with a Christmas tree type reticle and I've always wondered if there was a benefit. Over the last few years my financial position has allowed me to spend more money than I previously would have on equipment and I'm learning that there's a reason why some things are more expensive. 25 years ago I thought people were crazy for spending money on a scope when I was using the best Tasco had to offer.
 

waveslayer

Full Member
Mar 6, 2012
979
90
28
37
CA
#4
I used to think the H59 was super busy.. now that I've had it for some time, I love it and love the Tromer 3. I hardly dial these days. Everyone has me spotting as well, works wonders
 
Likes: demolitionman
Feb 12, 2017
692
196
43
Michigan
#5
I'm in the same boat right now. I never thought I would like the H59 reticle until I bought my Hensoldt. I actually really liked it. I'm getting ready to order a couple new ultra shorts this week and am contemplating the tremor 3. Decisions..... decisions!
 

Fig

Janitor of the Hide
Mar 15, 2018
1,718
2,523
113
The Most Dangerous City in the USA
#6
There are "less busy" Christmas trees.

I think this:


is a lot less busy than this:



If it's for PRS, personal opinion here, I think it's an advantage to have a reticle that allows for hold over and to hold wind where you're not trying to index back up to a horizontal declension. I find it useful, and faster.

There are other guys who dial everything and hold nothing. I'm just not fast enough to dial everything all the time. There are lots of stages I couldn't finish if I was dialing and not holding, so I use the Christmas tree all the time. There are sometimes stages where you're not allowed to change your turret once you've engaged and you have to hold. I think a Christmas tree also helps me to correct when I can spot my misses (which isn't all the time).

Really, the best thing is to go to a match, talk to the marksmen, and look through their scopes. That's how I ended up with a Kahles. It was at least 50% because I liked the SKMR3 reticle so much. I was also looking for the least busy one that was still useful for primarily shooting known range targets.
 
Apr 22, 2017
330
34
28
#7
I kinda been on the fence with my TReMoR3 up until recently.

I was limiting my use us the system to 3 mills and dialing elevation and holding wind past 3 mils. Lately I been working on holding smaller targets and longer distances and using the wind dot's. I would say my hit percentage is ever bit as good as when i was dialing and holding wind. Speed between targets are not comparable plus I feel like i got a little more time between targets. Another thing, I'm 49 years old and eyes aren't as reliable and I have started having trouble with dialing the correct elevation. Holding with the TReMoR eliminates possible dialing errors.

I never thought I would want the TReMoR3 on a hunting rifle but my opinion is changing fast. Reason is with the wind dot's, I dont have to worry about wind holds from my spotter or hunting myself. As a animal moves in or out, all I got to worry about is the range to get my elevation and hold appropriate wind dot. I think using the wind dot's will save me a lot of time getting getting correct DOPE on a animal like a antelope that might be moving a lot.

My opinion to you would be give the TReMoR3 a try and if want to save a little, drop to a 5-25x56 ATACR.
 
Likes: Fig

wjm308

Send it!
Nov 30, 2012
1,903
691
113
Black Forest, CO
#8
I kinda been on the fence with my TReMoR3 up until recently.

I was limiting my use us the system to 3 mills and dialing elevation and holding wind past 3 mils. Lately I been working on holding smaller targets and longer distances and using the wind dot's. I would say my hit percentage is ever bit as good as when i was dialing and holding wind. Speed between targets are not comparable plus I feel like i got a little more time between targets. Another thing, I'm 49 years old and eyes aren't as reliable and I have started having trouble with dialing the correct elevation. Holding with the TReMoR eliminates possible dialing errors.

I never thought I would want the TReMoR3 on a hunting rifle but my opinion is changing fast. Reason is with the wind dot's, I dont have to worry about wind holds from my spotter or hunting myself. As a animal moves in or out, all I got to worry about is the range to get my elevation and hold appropriate wind dot. I think using the wind dot's will save me a lot of time getting getting correct DOPE on a animal like a antelope that might be moving a lot.

My opinion to you would be give the TReMoR3 a try and if want to save a little, drop to a 5-25x56 ATACR.
stw, similar boat here. I turn 49 next month, when I lift my eye to see the elevation dial I can't read it, I have to pull my head pretty far back to see it so I've considered using the Christmas tree more and dialing less. I've found Hodnett's videos to be very helpful in understanding the busyness of the Tremor3


 
Likes: stwcattle

Dthomas3523

Blind Squirrel
Jan 31, 2018
1,583
515
113
South Texas
#10
If you have a chance to get behind them before you buy, obviously that's the best choice.

If not, and you find a "used" ATACR with a Tremor 3, I promise you won't lose much (if any) money on it.

I have an AMG with the EBR-7 and that's the perfect reticle for me.
 

Horns8491

Full Member
Apr 24, 2017
227
4
18
#11
I'm a big fan of the Tremor 3 and I'll try to explain why. Basically, it gets me attuned to wind speed on every shot. I other words, on every shot, i'm thinking " 4 mph cross wind" or whatever. Using a kestrel, it was all a mystery. You do a bunch of inputs, the computer says "1.7 mils left" and you go with that. But I dont have any way of FEELING a 1.7 mil wind. I do other things that are very dependent on wind (e.g. kiteboarding) and so I'm always seeing wind readings, feeling the wind outside, and thinking about cross wind components in terms of MPH, not mils.

I like the tremor 3 because it allows me to think and feel in MPH, and to be mindful of this MPH on EVERY SHOT. It also allows me to bracket the wind gusts in terms of lateral movement of the bullet.
 
Likes: PBWalsh
Apr 22, 2017
330
34
28
#12
I agree with Horns8491. I'm getting away from capturing the wind and target with the Kestrel and just taking wind readings, determining where wind is coming from and using the dots.
 

Bender

Something witty here
Feb 12, 2014
2,679
2,284
113
Cheyenne WY.
#14
stw, similar boat here. I turn 49 next month, when I lift my eye to see the elevation dial I can't read it, I have to pull my head pretty far back to see it so I've considered using the Christmas tree more and dialing less. I've found Hodnett's videos to be very helpful in understanding the busyness of the Tremor3


I just hate how they market it and then sue/threaten anyone with a holdover reticle that is remotely similar.....

The Bushnell G2-G3 is a contributing hide member..... just sayin...
 

koshkin

Dark Lord Of Optics
Feb 22, 2006
1,457
706
113
Los Angeles
www.opticsthoughts.com
#15
The way Horus patent was written is pretty lousy and I do not thin it is enforceable. The way that patent goes, any CHristmas Tree style reticle infringes. Interestingly, I think that if you want to license a Horus reticle, you must sign an agreement stating that you are not going to use any similar reticles in the future that are not from Horus. Or something along those lines. It was just a matter of time until somebody big enough to fight in court was going to take this up. Unless, I am mistaken there is a litigation of some sort between Horus and Leupold right now, which should work all this out. The way it stands, many smaller companies who do not want to go broke with lawyer fees avoid all of this stuff.

ILya
 
Likes: Bender

Bender

Something witty here
Feb 12, 2014
2,679
2,284
113
Cheyenne WY.
#16
The way Horus patent was written is pretty lousy and I do not thin it is enforceable. The way that patent goes, any CHristmas Tree style reticle infringes. Interestingly, I think that if you want to license a Horus reticle, you must sign an agreement stating that you are not going to use any similar reticles in the future that are not from Horus. Or something along those lines. It was just a matter of time until somebody big enough to fight in court was going to take this up. Unless, I am mistaken there is a litigation of some sort between Horus and Leupold right now, which should work all this out. The way it stands, many smaller companies who do not want to go broke with lawyer fees avoid all of this stuff.

ILya
Yeah they tried to strong arm Strelok Ballistic App because he used their reticle in his solver.... I was not impressed with the tactics. Hodnett acts like he invented the holdover. Lmao.
 
Likes: Safety_3rd
Feb 18, 2017
819
145
43
Albuquerque, nm
#17
I was in the same boat. H59 reticle just looked to busy for me and I have it several tries but just didn't like it. I ended up going with a minox mr4 reticle, Ebr7b reticle, and the skmr3 and they are all very useful and not nearly as cluttered. Depending where you live and the year round weather conditions, you might not ever be able to use 35x. If mirage is a constant issue like it is where I have lived, I rarely shoot at max magnification (25x). Usually stop around 20x which is plenty and keeps mirage from making the target too hard to see.
 

Fig

Janitor of the Hide
Mar 15, 2018
1,718
2,523
113
The Most Dangerous City in the USA
#18
I find myself only going past 14X on the 1,000+ targets, and then only when they're clustered together. If I have to swing the rifle, it takes too long to mess with the zoom. You can burn half your time zooming out and in to find targets when you could be using that time to aim.
 

Lowlight

HMFIC of this Shit
Staff member
Apr 12, 2001
27,025
2,550
113
Base of the Rockies
www.snipershide.com
#19
I believe they are finally gonna go to court over the Horus vague patent and the fact there is a ton of prior art in this space.

They got away with a lot because no one was paying attention or just did not understand it.

Companies have had enough of the patenting of stuff that was not really invented by the holder. The Patent Office is just too limited in their knowledge of these things
 

Fig

Janitor of the Hide
Mar 15, 2018
1,718
2,523
113
The Most Dangerous City in the USA
#20
I don't know how vague they are, but Horus LLC owns 41 patents relating to "APPARATUS AND METHOD FOR CALCULATING AIMING POINT INFORMATION FOR RIFLE SCOPES"

You're probably exactly right about the attorneys in the patent office not understanding what they're looking at. That said, if there's one that's overly broad and vague the thing to do would be to make whatever reticle you want and then make Horus be the one that files suit. As long as you haven't sold a million scopes the damages will be relatively light, and it would clear it up. The alternative is throwing "maybe money" at a lawsuit.
 

Bender

Something witty here
Feb 12, 2014
2,679
2,284
113
Cheyenne WY.
#21
I believe they are finally gonna go to court over the Horus vague patent and the fact there is a ton of prior art in this space.

They got away with a lot because no one was paying attention or just did not understand it.

Companies have had enough of the patenting of stuff that was not really invented by the holder. The Patent Office is just too limited in their knowledge of these things
I sure hope so, it has gotten pretty ridiculous over meaningless shit. Even if their reticle was not so busy, I wouldn’t give them a dime. Just from their business practices. They are pushed like it is the only way to accomplish the task. Then they act like they are the one that thought it up LOL.
 
Apr 22, 2017
330
34
28
#22
Sorry for my ignorance on the subject but could someone provide a short version or article on the dispute between the two parties.
 

djarecke

Full Member
Mar 9, 2013
520
76
28
#24
I've tried the reticles and just couldn't put them to good use. The 4mph wind dots are gigantic, and if your position is anything less stable than prone, there's a large number of reference points your eye is trying to capture while getting the target referenced at the same time.

It might be good for certain things, but PRS is not one of them.
 

koshkin

Dark Lord Of Optics
Feb 22, 2006
1,457
706
113
Los Angeles
www.opticsthoughts.com
#25
I believe they are finally gonna go to court over the Horus vague patent and the fact there is a ton of prior art in this space.

They got away with a lot because no one was paying attention or just did not understand it.

Companies have had enough of the patenting of stuff that was not really invented by the holder. The Patent Office is just too limited in their knowledge of these things
All it takes is for someone big enough to go through the process once. Then there is a precedent. Horus can bully smaller companies, but Leupold is a different ballgame altogether.

ILya
 

wjm308

Send it!
Nov 30, 2012
1,903
691
113
Black Forest, CO
#26
All it takes is for someone big enough to go through the process once. Then there is a precedent. Horus can bully smaller companies, but Leupold is a different ballgame altogether.

ILya
I've thought that Leupold's CCH was awfully similar to Horus, it will be interesting to watch and see where the courts side on this one. Seems like with Horus folks either love it or hate it, I just bought my first scope with a Tremor 3 as I've been on the fence so we'll see where I fall off once I get some time with it.
 

Conrad

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 28, 2006
1,342
63
48
TX
#27
Curious if DTubb will benefit from Leupold's suit given 1) Leupold has wind dot reticles now 2) Leupold puts his reticle in their scopes. Might have been some mutual benefits to that partnership. The DTR had wind dots long before the Tremor3.
 

PA Tony

New Hide Member
Apr 15, 2018
4
4
3
#37
Well this thread went in an unexpected direction.....I ordered it yesterday with the horus so I hope I like it. Thank you all again for the help.
I do have another question about mount height....I have a defiance deviant action with a 20moa integrated rail and a m24 contour barrel. I want to get a spuhr mount for the nightforce 7-35x56 scope. Does anyone know what height mount would work without being crazy high? I was thinking the 34mm center line would work with the 65mm outer diameter of the scope. I just don't know how the 20moa rail plays into it. The parts are all on order but I don't have them so I can't physically measure them.
 
Likes: alfmoonspace

wjm308

Send it!
Nov 30, 2012
1,903
691
113
Black Forest, CO
#38
Well this thread went in an unexpected direction.....I ordered it yesterday with the horus so I hope I like it. Thank you all again for the help.
I do have another question about mount height....I have a defiance deviant action with a 20moa integrated rail and a m24 contour barrel. I want to get a spuhr mount for the nightforce 7-35x56 scope. Does anyone know what height mount would work without being crazy high? I was thinking the 34mm center line would work with the 65mm outer diameter of the scope. I just don't know how the 20moa rail plays into it. The parts are all on order but I don't have them so I can't physically measure them.
You should be okay, I think what you're concerned about is the front bell hitting the picatinny rail on your deviant action but again, the NF 7-35 is long enough this should not be an issue, also the Deviant action's rail is cut at the face of the action instead of extending beyond like some rails do, this will work in your favor. The measurement for the mount is from the top of picatinny rail to centerline of mount and with the NF 7-35 having a 65mm outer bell then you'll be just fine with 34x2 = 68mm plus the extra distance from top of barrel to top of rail giving another .4" or so of clearance for caps and such.
 
Feb 19, 2017
69
17
8
#39
Outside of the legal bs... The Tremor3 is well accepted by military snipers who would rather hold than dial, and the wind dots simplify training and help soldiers/marines calculate their wind calls faster. There are some changes that could be made, ie clean up the milling chevron bc people always use the .2 line to begin milling instead of the .0
 
Aug 31, 2017
135
24
18
Austin Texas
#40
Keep in mind that most of the pictures of the T3 are a 5 or 7x magnification. Once you get into the usable magnification 12x and higher the first focal plane "zoomes in" on the reticle so it looks bigger and less cluttered.
 

Clearlight

Full Member
Jul 23, 2014
722
251
63
Brisbane Australia
#42
Thanks TorF , had a quick google and couldn’t find it . If you have an image of the Hertel & Reuss
reticle you mentioned , we’d love to see it . Seems a few folks rated them better than Zeiss optics
of the day .
 
Top Bottom