Tested: ER Shaw Ruger Precision Rimfire Barrel

Subwrx300

Sergeant of the Hide
Jan 15, 2014
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Cedar Springs, MI
#51
Do I understand you correctly?

1 MOA @ 50 = 1/2"

1.3 MOA @ 100 ~ 1.3"

1.7 - 1.8 MOA @ 200 ~ 3.4"

2.5 MOA @ 400 ~ 10"
Yes approximately. By those numbers I mean very high (80-90%) hit probability (assuming centered on target). And this is my experience only with 22lr and groups at distance vs closer range.

It's not a hard/fast rule; doesn't mean all shots land inside some circle but rather a rough guide to the increasing group size you see as bullets go further down range. I've seen other variations on this also elsewhere.

I think one person (I can't recall whom exactly) called it the Half Third Rule - essentially as distance is cut in half, group size decreases by only 1/3. With rimfire it seems to grow more quickly but I think that's due more to the flight time than anything else.
 
Mar 1, 2013
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#52
Am curious . . .

How much pull have you got your trigger set at?

And, what glass are you using there?

Hope you don't mind me asking.
Not at all. Athlon Argos BTR 6-24x50 in vortex pmr 1.26 inch. Trigger does suck something bad even after a charcoal lighter fluid bath, re oil/grease, and the adjustment screw backed almost all the way out. I understand that could be a problem with the grouping. I do feel and know when I pull shots. Also had a mpa vertical grip. Everything torqued to spec
 
Dec 5, 2017
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#54
Yes approximately. By those numbers I mean very high (80-90%) hit probability (assuming centered on target). And this is my experience only with 22lr and groups at distance vs closer range.

It's not a hard/fast rule; doesn't mean all shots land inside some circle but rather a rough guide to the increasing group size you see as bullets go further down range. I've seen other variations on this also elsewhere.

I think one person (I can't recall whom exactly) called it the Half Third Rule - essentially as distance is cut in half, group size decreases by only 1/3. With rimfire it seems to grow more quickly but I think that's due more to the flight time than anything else.
Thanks for clarifying.

Yeah, I get it that this is more of a "rule of thumb" kind of thing. And of course, a lot depends on the particular ammo being used. I've hear more than one person say that ammo that shoots 1 MOA at 50 or 100 yds may not work well at the longer distances, while some other ammo that doesn't do so hot at the shorter distances and do quite well and the longer ones. One day, I'll have to do some testing to see if the data I get supports that (another reason to go out and shoot a lot ;) )
 
Dec 5, 2017
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#55
Not at all. Athlon Argos BTR 6-24x50 in vortex pmr 1.26 inch. Trigger does suck something bad even after a charcoal lighter fluid bath, re oil/grease, and the adjustment screw backed almost all the way out. I understand that could be a problem with the grouping. I do feel and know when I pull shots. Also had a mpa vertical grip. Everything torqued to spec
I'm pretty satisfied with the trigger on mine as I've got the pull down to 12-14 oz by simply pulling the spring out all together. I did the same thing a couple years ago when I first got my RPR .308 with the same result for pull. The two triggers feel much the same and the light pull really helped me tighten up my groups and focus more on other shooting mechanics.

The more I read about vertical grips, the more I think I might try one. Seems they might help me reduce the number of my errant trigger pulls???
 
Mar 1, 2013
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#56
I'm pretty satisfied with the trigger on mine as I've got the pull down to 12-14 oz by simply pulling the spring out all together. I did the same thing a couple years ago when I first got my RPR .308 with the same result for pull. The two triggers feel much the same and the light pull really helped me tighten up my groups and focus more on other shooting mechanics.

The more I read about vertical grips, the more I think I might try one. Seems they might help me reduce the number of my errant trigger pulls???
I have a timney 2 stage flat shoe in my 6.5 RPR and love it. Works flawless and the pull feels amazing. Waiting patiently for timney to make one for the rimfire. I hate the stock ruger trigger personally. I’m not a fan of single stage triggers on my long distance rigs or trainer. I know my techniques aren’t 100% but I can shoot 1 moa at 1000 yards with my factory barrel 6.5 using factory federal 130 bergers or prime 130’s. The vertical grip that mpa makes feels great in the hand. Placement is the same every time you run bolt and re grip. The ergonomics of the grip force me to pull the trigger back the same every time with the finger placement the same. I have one one my 6.5 also. With all that said I just feel this barrel should be giving me better results. I shoot off a atlas psr bipod and tab gear rear bag
 
Dec 5, 2017
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#57
I have a timney 2 stage flat shoe in my 6.5 RPR and love it. Works flawless and the pull feels amazing. Waiting patiently for timney to make one for the rimfire. I hate the stock ruger trigger personally. I’m not a fan of single stage triggers on my long distance rigs or trainer. I know my techniques aren’t 100% but I can shoot 1 moa at 1000 yards with my factory barrel 6.5 using factory federal 130 bergers or prime 130’s. The vertical grip that mpa makes feels great in the hand. Placement is the same every time you run bolt and re grip. The ergonomics of the grip force me to pull the trigger back the same every time with the finger placement the same. I have one one my 6.5 also. With all that said I just feel this barrel should be giving me better results. I shoot off a atlas psr bipod and tab gear rear bag
Ah ha . . . there's you're problem; your muscle memory is set for a great trigger like Timney. ;)

One day, I'd really like to try out a Timney 2 stage flat shoe to see how I might like it. I don't think they get much better than Timney's from they great many people that swear by them. And I hear Timney will be out with their trgiger for this RPRF soon.

Check this out:

https://rugerforum.net/ruger-bolt-a...gger-mod-install-ruger-precision-rimfire.html
 
Mar 1, 2013
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#58
Ah ha . . . there's you're problem; your muscle memory is set for a great trigger like Timney. ;)

One day, I'd really like to try out a Timney 2 stage flat shoe to see how I might like it. I don't think they get much better than Timney's from they great many people that swear by them. And I hear Timney will be out with their trgiger for this RPRF soon.

Check this out:

https://rugerforum.net/ruger-bolt-a...gger-mod-install-ruger-precision-rimfire.html
Thanks for the link but I’m against modding a critical part of any firearm like the trigger. Could cause accidental discharges or something worse. To be honest my muscle memory is focused on grip and finger pad placement of the trigger rather than pull. My 308 has a 2 stage timney also but it’s a curved shoe at 3 lbs total. Still.. I’ve compared factory barrel groups to Shaw barrel groups and the Shaw is losing in the comparison
 
Mar 1, 2013
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#60
Hardpan,

Note, I wasn't really all that serious about my muscle memory comment.

Maybe it's time to have Shaw take back and replace that barrel of yours???
Ya I emailed them and called today with no avail, althoug I am on the west coast. I do want to send it back to have it looked at... maybe the rifling is bad, or the crown isn’t right. If they exchange it I definitely would like a 20 inch barrel and would gladly pay the difference. No worries about the comments bro it’s all good, although muscle memory plays a big part in long distance precision. With proper techniques it allows for consistency and repeatability.
 
Dec 5, 2017
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#61
Thanks for the link but I’m against modding a critical part of any firearm like the trigger. Could cause accidental discharges or something worse.
BTW: Did you see his follow up post there regarding RPRF Timney trigger where he says " I got an email from them asking if I'd like to be a Beta tester for their RPRimfire trigger design " ?

If Timney is currently in the testing stage of this trigger, I assume it won't be long until it's out on the market.
 

Subwrx300

Sergeant of the Hide
Jan 15, 2014
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Cedar Springs, MI
#62
BTW: Did you see his follow up post there regarding RPRF Timney trigger where he says " I got an email from them asking if I'd like to be a Beta tester for their RPRimfire trigger design " ?

If Timney is currently in the testing stage of this trigger, I assume it won't be long until it's out on the market.
I can shed some light here. I have one of the beta triggers and it is very good.

I don't know what the ETA is to market but it is very smooth and it makes it super easy to tell difference between good shot break and bad shot break (tugging trigger up/down/left/right).

I think the fitment of the RPR would actually be pretty dam close. I wish I had a factory RPR to compare it to dimensionally to the RPRF trigger housing but it is REALLLY close from inspection of various photos other than some extra metal removed from top/forward section of trigger housing.

I'd imagine they are pretty close to production though because mine was pretty easy to drop in. I did have to shave a bit of metal but only a few thousandths to get it to slide in.
 
Mar 1, 2013
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#63
I understand the trigger could be a big part of my problem and can’t wait for timney to make a 2 stage. But comparing my groups from the Shaw to the factory with the same exact setup the Shaw barrel is slightly worse.
 

Subwrx300

Sergeant of the Hide
Jan 15, 2014
716
328
63
Cedar Springs, MI
#64
I understand the trigger could be a big part of my problem and can’t wait for timney to make a 2 stage. But comparing my groups from the Shaw to the factory with the same exact setup the Shaw barrel is slightly worse.
If you can shoot multple 5 shot groups averaging sub .5" at 50yds with your 22lr (say .3-.6), but it's opening way up at 100 (2" avg) then it may not be you. You said SD's are good right? Like 8-12 for over 15+ shots?

If those are true statements, I'd call Shaw and get a new one shipped out. This is coming from a guy who put over 450+ rounds down a bad 223 barrel trying to "figure it out", "must be something I'm doing wrong" etc. Life's too short... Have them fix it on their time, not yours..
 
Mar 1, 2013
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#65
If you can shoot multple 5 shot groups averaging sub .5" at 50yds with your 22lr (say .3-.6), but it's opening way up at 100 (2" avg) then it may not be you. You said SD's are good right? Like 8-12 for over 15+ shots?

If those are true statements, I'd call Shaw and get a new one shipped out. This is coming from a guy who put over 450+ rounds down a bad 223 barrel trying to "figure it out", "must be something I'm doing wrong" etc. Life's too short... Have them fix it on their time, not yours..
Totally agree. I’m going to take it off and have them deal with it. Sub .5 groups of 10 rounds at 50 with different ammo, 1.7 and greater, 5 and 10 round groups at 100 with the majority of the grouping over 2-3 inches. Sd’s are from 7-12,13’s. Eley Target being 7’s and federal automatch being 12-13’s.
 
Dec 5, 2017
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#66
SD's of 12-13's is really good for Federal Auto Match. In my database, there's a couple 10 round Auto Match SD's that were single digits and a couple in the low 20's where the median 10 round SD for a little over 200 rounds from different lots was at 17 (still, not bad for cheap bulk ammo). The median ES being 49 and have had as high as 74. Because it's really not "match" ammo, I wouldn't use my experience with Federal Auto Match as viable in trying to figure out accuracy issues as you've described. There's just too much variance, IMHO.

When having accuracy issues with all ammo, it seems appropriate to put the ball in Shaw's court and have them fix it or refund your money. Good luck, and keep up posted on any progress.
 
Mar 1, 2013
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#67
SD's of 12-13's is really good for Federal Auto Match. In my database, there's a couple 10 round Auto Match SD's that were single digits and a couple in the low 20's where the median 10 round SD for a little over 200 rounds from different lots was at 17 (still, not bad for cheap bulk ammo). The median ES being 49 and have had as high as 74. Because it's really not "match" ammo, I wouldn't use my experience with Federal Auto Match as viable in trying to figure out accuracy issues as you've described. There's just too much variance, IMHO.

When having accuracy issues with all ammo, it seems appropriate to put the ball in Shaw's court and have them fix it or refund your money. Good luck, and keep up posted on any progress.
I’ll let you know asap. I can’t get Eley Stuff to group either. Believe it or not federal auto match is usually grouping just the same as eley stuff. I definitely will try calling them Monday after I sent emails this past Thursday and Friday
 
Mar 1, 2013
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#68
Called customer service. They will replace the barrel. Wouldn’t let me pay the difference for a 20in as it is a warranty claim. Very nice customer service. I’m very satisfied. Will install after and report back when the new barrel arrives.
 
Feb 14, 2017
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#69
Good to hear great customer service. I've got the 20" and I've been working g on cleaning and breaking it in. Really taking my time with it. I'll start shooting groups with match ammo this weekend.
 
Mar 1, 2013
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#70
Good to hear great customer service. I've got the 20" and I've been working g on cleaning and breaking it in. Really taking my time with it. I'll start shooting groups with match ammo this weekend.
Do you have a chrono? I’m curious what the speeds will be out of the 20.
 

Snuby642

Sergeant of the Hide
Feb 11, 2017
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#72
Subrx300
You tested cci sv and had some decent results.
Have you tested any cci green tag?
Exact round as sv but better qc.
I run sv for fun and green tag for a better group.
Dont have to change scope just get tighter groups.

Wolf mt also works well in my shaw.
 
Dec 5, 2017
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#73
Subrx300
You tested cci sv and had some decent results.
Have you tested any cci green tag?
Exact round as sv but better qc.
I run sv for fun and green tag for a better group.
Dont have to change scope just get tighter groups.

Wolf mt also works well in my shaw.
Having put together a rather large data base of 22LR (most of which are from my own testing), I'm attaching some numbers I've recorded on the Green Tag and SV's that you might be interested in seeing.

In my experience, either with the Shaw barrel or the factory barrel on my RPRF, the lot of Green Tag I have doesn't shoot much better than the SV's I've had. So, considering the cost of Green Tag, they were quite a disappointment and would use any number of other high QC rounds that have proven to be consistently good. I find the SV's to be an excellent practice round and a very good value, especially when one can pick them up at 6 cents per round.

Eley Club I'm using are surprisingly good and do as well as many that are designated at match. And the best one's for me out of my Shaw barrel are Federal's Ultra Match, Lapua's Midas or CenterX and RWS R50.
 

Attachments

Mar 1, 2013
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#75
UPDATE

After having issues with the 18 in Shaw they replaced it with a 20 in. I shimmed it .0020 and torqued the barrel nut to 35 ft/lbs. here are 2 5 shot groups and 1 10 shot group at 50 yards using cci sv. 3-5 mph head wind, 48 degrees. I dressed a little too lite and was cold and a little shaky. This new barrel shot lights out in my opinion. I could have had a better 10 shot group but pulled a couple. Over all I’m really pleased with this new Shaw barrel. No regrets. Only had a hour to play today. Will try 100 soon
 

Attachments

Dec 5, 2017
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#76
UPDATE

After having issues with the 18 in Shaw they replaced it with a 20 in. I shimmed it .0020 and torqued the barrel nut to 35 ft/lbs. here are 2 5 shot groups and 1 10 shot group at 50 yards using cci sv. 3-5 mph head wind, 48 degrees. I dressed a little too lite and was cold and a little shaky. This new barrel shot lights out in my opinion. I could have had a better 10 shot group but pulled a couple. Over all I’m really pleased with this new Shaw barrel. No regrets. Only had a hour to play today. Will try 100 soon
Nice!!!

The temperature you were in with the CCI SV's was right at were I tested them for my little test for cold vs. hot. And one of the surprises for me was to find that the CCE SV's did a lot better in the cool temps than the hotter (the "hot" temp being 96°F). Not only were the SD's lower at the cool tems, but the ES's were substantially lower and when fired for accuracy they grouped much like what you've shown. They didn't group that well in the higher temp.

Like you, I'm really pleased with my Shaw barrel . . . even though my barrel is an 18 incher :cool:
 

Kisssofdeath

Sergeant of the Hide
May 9, 2018
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#77
Hardpan, great to see the Shaw barrel performing. I have thought about getting one for mine but have been hesitant to spend the money on it. I would still like to see a few people shoot something like ten 5-shot groups with a few different types of ammo. If not ten then at least five 5-shot groups. Looking forward to seeing more test.
 
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Mar 1, 2013
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#78
Hardpan, great to see the Shaw barrel performing. I have thought about getting one for mine but have been hesitant to spend the money on it. I would still like to see a few people shoot something like ten 5-shot groups with a few different types of ammo. If not ten then at least five 5-shot groups. Looking forward to seeing more test.
Next time I go out I’ll have more time. I may try that.
 

Stan628

New Hide Member
Oct 24, 2018
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#79
UPDATE

After having issues with the 18 in Shaw they replaced it with a 20 in. I shimmed it .0020 and torqued the barrel nut to 35 ft/lbs. here are 2 5 shot groups and 1 10 shot group at 50 yards using cci sv. 3-5 mph head wind, 48 degrees. I dressed a little too lite and was cold and a little shaky. This new barrel shot lights out in my opinion. I could have had a better 10 shot group but pulled a couple. Over all I’m really pleased with this new Shaw barrel. No regrets. Only had a hour to play today. Will try 100 soon
Okay, I have a newbie question or two. Where did you place the shim and why? How did you know it needed it and by how much?
 
Mar 1, 2013
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#80
Okay, I have a newbie question or two. Where did you place the shim and why? How did you know it needed it and by how much?
On my 18 inch Shaw I was getting metal shavings in the barrel. The bolt handle was rubbing the metal cutout on the chassis when putting the bolt into battery. Another member in here mentioned shimming his barrel with HD aluminum foil. I tried it and it worked. So when I got the 20 in Shaw I shimmed it .0020 and it’s been working flawless. No metal shavings anymore from the bolt handle and I can actually extract live rounds now. Win/win in my book
 
Mar 1, 2013
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#81
Okay, I have a newbie question or two. Where did you place the shim and why? How did you know it needed it and by how much?
So I cut 3 spacers from HD aluminum foil using 2 washers I found in the extra stash that matched the inner and outer diameter of the barrel that fits into the action. Before I put the barrel into the action I put the foil on the barrel. I then slid it into the action, tightened the barrel nut to 35 ft/lbs and called it a done deal. The bolt still closes a little tight but with a catalyst arms bolt handle it’s no big deal. When I get a full day at the range I will test at 50 again and at 100 with the different ammo I have in storage. Shooting 5 and 10 shot groups like I did above is a really good sign. It never shot that well with the factory or Shaw 18 in barrels
 

Stan628

New Hide Member
Oct 24, 2018
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4
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#82
So I cut 3 spacers from HD aluminum foil using 2 washers I found in the extra stash that matched the inner and outer diameter of the barrel that fits into the action. Before I put the barrel into the action I put the foil on the barrel. I then slid it into the action, tightened the barrel nut to 35 ft/lbs and called it a done deal. The bolt still closes a little tight but with a catalyst arms bolt handle it’s no big deal. When I get a full day at the range I will test at 50 again and at 100 with the different ammo I have in storage. Shooting 5 and 10 shot groups like I did above is a really good sign. It never shot that well with the factory or Shaw 18 in barrels
Thank you. Now I understand.
This is a great site to pick up small nuggets of information to make smaller groups and I truly appreciate everyone that takes the time to share their experiences both good and bad. We all get to learn from it.
 
Likes: Hardpan