TB Ultra Mount Options

Feb 14, 2017
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Statesville, NC
#1
Currently in jail, so trying to figure out how to run Ultra 7 when I receive.
What's consensus on this, Area 419 system or TB brake? If I plan to use on gas 308 and bolt 6.5, do you go TB Flash Hider model for 308?
 
Dec 3, 2017
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#2
I’ve been wondering this as well. I’m likely to just to go with TB but haven’t had the opertunity to test options out.
 

southerngolfer

HACHIE CHACHIE DUNKIRINI
Feb 17, 2017
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SW, Missouri
#4
I sold all my CB and switched over to the area 419 adaptors and HF brake. I like the ease of switching from brake to suppressor. I did a 100 yard comparison, very minimal shift
 
Feb 9, 2017
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NE Texas
#8
I’m wondering if a TB fh would be the better option than their brake on my 16” barreled AR truck gun - I’m not gonna leave a can on it since it resides in the ranch truck but it’d be nice to spin an Ultra on there when one is handy. So my question - is the TB fh significantly quieter than the brake when unsupressed and needing to take a quick shot at a critter with no hearing pro?
 
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Lmatt

Private
May 16, 2017
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Idaho
#10
Curious why flash hider instead of brake? Seems the brake would act as kind of an extra blast baffle, if nothing else.
Any truth to this? I’ve heard people say that it is better to run a muzzle device than bare. If that is the case then maybe the Area 419 isn’t the best solution??
 

Strykervet

Resident Phoenix Eye and Dim Mak Instructor
Jun 5, 2011
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#11
I'll just parrot what Zak told me:

The use of the brake or flash hider mount is to provide a beveled surface the suppressor threads on to and rests against. Since threaded barrels and their shoulders can vary, the uniformity of the mounts make it so that the can mounts perfectly each time. It makes a lot of sense, especially if you make mounts that actually work.

Is the Area 419 a cosmetic choice? Are they cheaper? Because I don't get why you wouldn't just use the TBAC mounts. I have several, all brakes, and they work fine.

If I was gonna use another brake, I'd at least call TBAC and ensure that it won't void the warranty.
 
Likes: Max
Jul 10, 2010
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Southeast LA
#12
The Hellfire adapter that goes inside the suppressor has a “sacrificial baffle” similar in function to mounting the can over a brake. The Omega adapter does not. Look at their site for pics.
 

wjm308

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Nov 30, 2012
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Black Forest, CO
#13
Am I missing something here? The Area 419 TBAC adapter is a single port design; however, the TBAC design is a dual port design. Oh wait a second, now I understand, I'm going to keep my above sentence in case anyone is initially confused because I just realized the Hellfire TBAC adapter actually threads onto the Hellfire adaptor and torques into the TBAC so you can quickly swap between the full size Hellfire break or the TBAC suppressor - that is a great design, kudos to Jon once again for being innovative! The question the OP asked is which is better, good question, I would assume the Hellfire break would be better because it is a 3 port design whereas the TBAC break is only a 2 port design, but can you discern an actual difference between the two??? Now you have me curious to try both...

One other thing, the Hellfire system is "self timing" and I can tell you it is a pain to time the TBAC breaks correctly with spacers, so that right there is a definite advantage.
 

wjm308

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Nov 30, 2012
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#15
^^^ The self timing feature is the huge plus and the 419 brake works better than the TB brake. As for warranty voiding IDK...
That's a good point on the warranty, and also whether or not the Ultra suppressors are designed to work with the 2 port system of their CB break or if it doesn't matter for the flow of gasses.
 
Feb 14, 2017
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Statesville, NC
#16
I decided to just go TB route. First time in the suppression game and trying to maintain accuracy..so just going with what TB recommends. 419 sounds like it’ll be cheaper in the end but with only using on 2 rifles it doesn’t make that much difference.
 

BurnOut

DDOJSIOC
Nov 24, 2013
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Dallas
#18
This is a timely thread for me, as I placed an order for my first Area 419 setup just a few hours ago. The self-timing functionality holds a lot of appeal for me, as does the ease of removing the Hellfire brake for cleaning (this setup will be going on a .223 AI prairie dog gun).

I'm looking forward to playing with it, as it seems to be a very well thought-out design.
 
Likes: Jeffd
Jul 10, 2010
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#19
I’m only using the 419 system so I can swap around my 2 TBAC cans with my Omega. I don’t run brakes. It’s perfect for that. If not for the Omega, I’d run TBAC flash hiders on everything. Not having to time the FHs appeals to me and it’s quieter than a Brake
 
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Jeffd

Online Training Member
Feb 3, 2011
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#20
This is a timely thread for me, as I placed an order for my first Area 419 setup just a few hours ago. The self-timing functionality holds a lot of appeal for me, as does the ease of removing the Hellfire brake for cleaning (this setup will be going on a .223 AI prairie dog gun).

I'm looking forward to playing with it, as it seems to be a very well thought-out design.
Good choice - You will be happy!
 
#21
Curious why flash hider instead of brake? Seems the brake would act as kind of an extra blast baffle, if nothing else.
Easy to install (no timing), has flats in case I do something stupid and get the can stuck and I might still be bitter about the ‘94 AWB where the .gov said I couldn’t have flash hiders. I also don’t shoot any high recoiling cartridges. With current high strength metals, I’m not concerned about erosion. If I do happpen to wear out a silencer, I’m sure TBAC (or any reputable brand) would take care of me. However, I have yet to hear of someone wearing out a silencer.
 
Jun 24, 2009
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#22
Easy to install (no timing), has flats in case I do something stupid and get the can stuck and I might still be bitter about the ‘94 AWB where the .gov said I couldn’t have flash hiders. I also don’t shoot any high recoiling cartridges. With current high strength metals, I’m not concerned about erosion. If I do happpen to wear out a silencer, I’m sure TBAC (or any reputable brand) would take care of me. However, I have yet to hear of someone wearing out a silencer.
All decent points. I will definitely keep that in mind if I need more muzzle devices.
 
Feb 9, 2017
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NE Texas
#23
I think I will try one out for the truck gun - maybe also get a thread protector for the fh since it won't be wearing a can most the time. Does the TB fh add any additional length compared to the TB brake? It looks like it may add just a bit due to the flats but I'm basing that off photos.

ETA: The TB 5/8x24 .30 fh shows to be oos at Hanson Brothers and also TBAC. HB, any idea when you guys will get some in?
 
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#24
I think I will try one out for the truck gun - maybe also get a thread protector for the fh since it won't be wearing a can most the time. Does the TB fh add any additional length compared to the TB brake? It looks like it may add just a bit due to the flats but I'm basing that off photos.

ETA: The TB 5/8x24 .30 fh shows to be oos at Hanson Brothers and also TBAC. HB, any idea when you guys will get some in?
I’m waiting on TBAC to ship them, already ordered and paid.
 

Subwrx300

Sergeant of the Hide
Jan 15, 2014
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Cedar Springs, MI
#26
Just as point to OP: I have a TBAC Ultra 9 that swaps between 4 rifles. If you plan on removing brake frequently, make ABSOLUTELY sure that you mount your CB brake properly with Red loctite (271 300 deg stuff or 272 which is slightly higher temp at 450deg) before you start shooting and testing it out.

I tried spinning my can off a bit too early and mounted CB brake with blue loctite (wrong product) and it ended up spinning off brake while can still mounted.

I tried securing again with Rocksett but it still torqued off brake (takes forever to cure). Long story short, I had to remove can/brake, red loctite 271, wait overnight, then can spun off correctly with brake still on rifle. Then I had to retime the brake and remount correctly (which is a bit of a pain with red loctite).

So do it right the first time with all rifles that will have a CB Brake and you shouldn't have issues. If you cut corners (like I did) it will likely bite you when it is least convenient. The red stuff is TOUGH.

Should have followed instructions better (and had better self control over my enthusiasm to start shooting can).
 

wjm308

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Nov 30, 2012
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Black Forest, CO
#27
Just as point to OP: I have a TBAC Ultra 9 that swaps between 4 rifles. If you plan on removing brake frequently, make ABSOLUTELY sure that you mount your CB brake properly with Red loctite (271 300 deg stuff or 272 which is slightly higher temp at 450deg) before you start shooting and testing it out.

I tried spinning my can off a bit too early and mounted CB brake with blue loctite (wrong product) and it ended up spinning off brake while can still mounted.

I tried securing again with Rocksett but it still torqued off brake (takes forever to cure). Long story short, I had to remove can/brake, red loctite 271, wait overnight, then can spun off correctly with brake still on rifle. Then I had to retime the brake and remount correctly (which is a bit of a pain with red loctite).

So do it right the first time with all rifles that will have a CB Brake and you shouldn't have issues. If you cut corners (like I did) it will likely bite you when it is least convenient. The red stuff is TOUGH.

Should have followed instructions better (and had better self control over my enthusiasm to start shooting can).

I have used Loctite 242 blue and never had a problem with my breaks coming off with the suppressor? How hard are you torquing your suppressor when you twist it on? I'm just tightening hand tight, basically spin it until I meet resistance and give it a little extra oomph at the end but nothing major.
 
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Subwrx300

Sergeant of the Hide
Jan 15, 2014
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Cedar Springs, MI
#28
I have used Loctite 242 blue and never had a problem with my breaks coming off with the suppressor? How hard are you torquing your suppressor when you twist it on? I'm just tightening had tight, basically spin it until I meet resistance and give it a little extra oomph at the end but nothing major.
I do the same, hand tight plus a smidge. But I pulled a rookie mistake and tried pulling off can while it was warmish and holding power of blue gave way. It's a fairly new can (about a month or so) and has about 300 rounds through it.

My guess is that the threads of the brake and/or suppressor were a bit dirty with carbon from the 6.5 bolt gun, and, when mounting to the 224V semiauto, it locked up just a bit too tight. Couple that with a bit of heat (15-20 rounds over 5-10 minutes) and it came loose when I tried removing while it was warm to touch (maybe 90-100 deg?). Same thing happened early on with my 223 but I let cool again and it came off normally.

Also possible that I had undertorqued the CB brake when I remounted it a few weeks ago to add the blue loctite.

My other three guns have held well so far with blue BUT I've let them cool 100% before attempting to remove can. It's more a peace of mind issue than anything else. The can seems to cool much much faster than barrel and brake, so it's easy to get fooled that the system has cooled.
 

Subwrx300

Sergeant of the Hide
Jan 15, 2014
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Cedar Springs, MI
#29
I do the same, hand tight plus a smidge. But I pulled a rookie mistake and tried pulling off can while it was warmish and holding power of blue gave way. It's a fairly new can (about a month or so) and has about 300 rounds through it.

My guess is that the threads of the brake and/or suppressor were a bit dirty with carbon from the 6.5 bolt gun, and, when mounting to the 224V semiauto, it locked up just a bit too tight. Couple that with a bit of heat (15-20 rounds over 5-10 minutes) and it came loose when I tried removing while it was warm to touch (maybe 90-100 deg?). Same thing happened early on with my 223 but I let cool again and it came off normally.

Also possible that I had undertorqued the CB brake when I remounted it a few weeks ago to add the blue loctite.

My other three guns have held well so far with blue BUT I've let them cool 100% before attempting to remove can. It's more a peace of mind issue than anything else. The can seems to cool much much faster than barrel and brake, so it's easy to get fooled that the system has cooled.
And I just noticed my "blue loctite" isn't actually Loctite brand... It's Permatex. That could be why it failed. Or it was too old.

Now I just know to buy the name brand product and maybe it would have worked better but who knows.

Anyway, back to the OPs post. Don't want to detail the thread...pun intended.

20181010_152016.jpg
 

wjm308

Send it!
Nov 30, 2012
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Black Forest, CO
#30
Since the TBAC breaks require shims I use them to get the break to a place where I have to then torque with fairly considerable effort to get them in the proper position (timed) so maybe that is the difference?
 

Subwrx300

Sergeant of the Hide
Jan 15, 2014
726
339
63
Cedar Springs, MI
#31
Since the TBAC breaks require shims I use them to get the break to a place where I have to then torque with fairly considerable effort to get them in the proper position (timed) so maybe that is the difference?
I do also but I think it may have been too little on this barrel trying to keep it in time. I always find myself either just past or just before top dead flat with peel washers. But it's all good now and OP will have good success with TBAC in either case. Awesome products and amazing CS team!
 
Likes: wjm308
Feb 14, 2017
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Haubstadt, Indiana
#33
I have an Ultra 7 being form 3’d to my FFL now. Coincidentally, I already had purchased an Area 419 Hellfire for my new 6CM before I ever even thought about a suppressor. So I am going with that system just out of happenstance. I do think it will be the best system though, as I can get a second brake and quickly swap the Ultra 7 between my 6&6.5, while also being able to quickly swap to an effective 3 port brake if I so desire. The flexibility of the Hellfire to adapt to virtually any suppressor really seems to be second to none, but I won’t know how well it really works for likely 6-8 months...thanks ATF! Lol!
 
Likes: wjm308

021411

hot loads
Dec 14, 2011
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Houston, TX
#34
I’ve been using Loctite 246 on my Hellfire setups and have not have issues (yet). 246 is blue/medium strength but is high temp up to 450 degF. I also prep the threads by degreasing as well I can. If you wanna go all out you can also buy Loctite activator to use.
 
Nov 24, 2013
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Dallas
#35
FWIW, I've used Permatex high temp red (#27200) on nearly every muzzle device I have, and not a single one of them has ever come loose inadvertently. Nearly all of my muzzle devices are brakes, and I tend to shim them until the top flat is between 10:30 and 11:00 when fully hand tight. Pull everything apart to de-grease the muzzle and brake threads, generously apply the red threadlocker, and torque the brake in place, using a set of scope levels (one across the scope rail to indicate action level, and the other across the top flat of the brake to indicate brake level) to ensure alignment. I usually have the barrel clamped in a barrel vise. I'll wait a bare minimum of 24 hours before even thinking about shooting the gun after installing a brake in an effort to ensure that the threadlocker cures properly.

That said, I've had a few brakes that were barely more than hand-tight when I got done with the shimming process, but they're holding in place as well as the others so far.
 

stalwart300

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 14, 2018
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#36
To set my brakes I hit the threads on the barrel and muzzle brake with brake cleaner. Once it evaporates I put blue loctite on several threads and then screw on the device. I leave it so it can set... never head an issue with it breaking free.

I use the area 419 system and absolutely love it. I put on the muzzle device if I don't want to run a can or if I go out of state. It is also nice because it gives me access to the barrel crown so I can keep the carbon down.
 

NukeMMC

Damn Bubblehead
Mar 3, 2009
1,004
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Harrisburg, PA
#37
I have an Ultra 7 in jail since July. I also had Hellfire brakes on my 6.5 and 308 Maten's and went ahead and bought the Area 419 Ultra adapter. The self-timing of the Hellfire brakes is worth it for me.
As for threadlocker, I have used Loctite, Rocksett and Permatex with success. Clean the threads with a stainless toothbrush and wipedown with acetone and all of them work just fine.
 

Colt1776

New Hide Member
Feb 3, 2018
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9
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Muskogee, OK
#38
To set my brakes I hit the threads on the barrel and muzzle brake with brake cleaner. Once it evaporates I put blue loctite on several threads and then screw on the device. I leave it so it can set... never head an issue with it breaking free.

I use the area 419 system and absolutely love it. I put on the muzzle device if I don't want to run a can or if I go out of state. It is also nice because it gives me access to the barrel crown so I can keep the carbon down.
I also run the 419 Hellfire and love it too! I am getting an Impact action and am going to have a few different barrels and am looking at ideas of how to move brakes and cans to different barrels without costing a lot and it seems like buying a few 419 barrel adaptors and just leave them on the different barrels and then buy the Ultra 7 adaptor is the way to go because it is a pain in the ass to time Ultra 7 brakes.

Do you Loctite the 419 adaptor on to the barrel? What about the adaptor into the Ultra 7? Have you had an issues of the 419 adaptor for the Ultra 7 coming off or having a problem taking it out of the can?
 
Mar 6, 2017
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#39
I use the impact action and have a few different barrels and have the adapters on all of them. I used blue loctite and torqued the adapter down fairly hard with the little wrench and have never had one even think of coming loose. As far as the adapter in the ultra 7, I have 2 of them and didn't use any loctite on them. I just screwed them in about as hard as I reasonably could, probably have 4-5k rounds through each can with that setup and it has been flawless. I've never tried to take the adapter out of the can now that its in there but it could be a bit of a problem after so many rounds. I tried taking the adapter off my Omega can and it wouldn't budge.

So I'd just recommend a little blue loctite for the barrel adapters and nothing for the can adapter.
 
#41
To follow up on a few questions/comments:

We recommend red ("permanent") or high-temp red for installing our brakes on your barrels.

The 419 system does not "automatically" void the warranty, but since we don't make it, we don't vouch for it. If you have an alignment (or other) problem that was *caused by* the 419 adapter, it wouldn't be covered by the warranty. But if there's a problem with our can that's not related and you just happen to be using the 419 adapters, that won't cause a warranty problem. To date, we have not heard of any problems reported using the 419 adapters and our cans, but we also estimate the percentage of total BA/CB/Ultra users who use the 419 adapters to be small.

As for using a 1 or 2 port / chamber brake, it doesn't matter with respect to use inside the suppressor. The flash hider doesn't really have ports after all.
 
Feb 9, 2017
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NE Texas
#42
Looks like I’ll have them Friday evening.
Ordered and received the following Mon IIRC - appreciate the quick shipping.

Just now about to install- got a stupid question.....directions say fh may be installed untimed or timed so that flash pattern is minimized to shooter’s view. Is it much of an issue or do most just run it untimed since that seems to be one advantage of the fh?
Also I’m lefty but assuming that would have no bearing upon timing to minimize flash to shooters view (i.e. objective is to minimize flash at 12:00 position so indifferent to righty or lefty shooter)....?
 
#44
Ordered and received the following Mon IIRC - appreciate the quick shipping.

Just now about to install- got a stupid question.....directions say fh may be installed untimed or timed so that flash pattern is minimized to shooter’s view. Is it much of an issue or do most just run it untimed since that seems to be one advantage of the fh?
Also I’m lefty but assuming that would have no bearing upon timing to minimize flash to shooters view (i.e. objective is to minimize flash at 12:00 position so indifferent to righty or lefty shooter)....?
I just add a drop of thread locker and torque to 30lbs. It’s extremely rare that I shoot without a silencer attached so I’m not concerned about the flash pattern.
 
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tsu45

Private
May 15, 2011
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#45
Do the .223CB brakes work with the 6.5 Ultra 7? Ordering a 223ai barrel and would like to use the .223 bore brake in case I ever run it unsuppressed. Thinking the stand alone performance would be a little better than a .30cal. The .223CB only comes in 1/2x28 so I guess I need to decide before ordering the barrel.