Tangent Theta 5-25 v Minox 5-25 v Nightforce 7-35 v Schmidt & Bender 5-25 v Vortex 4.5-27

Mar 20, 2010
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Just got my 525p in yesterday to go on a Tactical Operations XRay that will be here one day in about a year and a half. Glass is beautiful compared to my Schmidt 5-25, Zeiss Diavari and ATACR. Far more light collection and eye box is very forgiving. Thanks for the great write up, it definitely influenced my purchase. Controls are indeed precise and tactile.
 

gconnoyer

Online Training Member
Dec 19, 2017
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St Louis, MO
Great writeup.

Glad you dove into the "nitpicking" because to some, that stuff really matters.

Not that money isnt an object in this sport, but at the price level we're at with out gear...if I buy a $2500 scope and am not completely happy with it because of nitpicking I would have much rather spend an extra $1000 to get everything that I wanted and not feel that I wasted any money.
 
Likes: Acer76

scudzuki

Gunny Sergeant
Jul 1, 2012
2,068
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Philadelphia suburbs
I have not read through all the responses, so I apologize if this has been brought up already, but the Minox lifetime warranty issued to whomever registers the scope (which may or may not be extended to subsequent owners, that is a question some retailers were probing) is supposed to also cover accidental damage (like the Vortex VIP warranty).

Being as I'm the registered owner of 2 Minox ZP5s this is significant to me, so I thought I'd bring it up.

HK Dave, I've been using the fine diopter tuning strategy you described in the OP for years. When I first came up with it, several Hiders told me it wouldn't work for this and that reason but I've used it when required on many scopes. Seems like I can get the diopter adjustment right on Japanese scopes (I think every one I've owned is a LOW product, maybe it's a design family thing) via the traditional method, but German scopes like the S&B PMII, Steiner M5 (which were the scopes that caused me to come up with this method), and Minox ZP5 have such a large range of diopter adjustment within which my eye can focus immediately on the reticle that fine tuning the diopter using a distant target after the initial setting was required.

I'll add that if I'm shooting a comp, I dial the side focus to bring the target into focus then fire. Only when there's time (and the precision is required, like sighting in a scope/rifle) do I bother to dial out parallax entirely. The parallax error available once the target is in focus on a properly adjusted diopter is minimal, practically a non issue, in my experience, unless I'm trying to shoot little itty bitty groups.
 
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wjm308

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Nov 30, 2012
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Black Forest, CO
I have not read through all the responses, so I apologize if this has been brought up already, but the Minox lifetime warranty issued to whomever registers the scope (which may or may not be extended to subsequent owners, that is a question some retailers were probing) is supposed to also cover accidental damage (like the Vortex VIP warranty).

Being as I'm the registered owner of 2 Minox ZP5s this is significant to me, so I thought I'd bring it up.

HK Dave, I've been using the fine diopter tuning strategy you described in the OP for years. When I first came up with it, several Hiders told me it wouldn't work for this and that reason but I've used it when required on many scopes. Seems like I can get the diopter adjustment right on Japanese scopes (I think every one I've owned is a LOW product, maybe it's a design family thing) via the traditional method, but German scopes like the S&B PMII, Steiner M5 (which were the scopes that caused me to come up with this method), and Minox ZP5 have such a large range of diopter adjustment within which my eye can focus immediately on the reticle that fine tuning the diopter using a distant target after the initial setting was required.

I'll add that if I'm shooting a comp, I dial the side focus to bring the target into focus then fire. Only when there's time (and the precision is required, like sighting in a scope/rifle) do I bother to dial out parallax entirely. The parallax error available once the target is in focus on a properly adjusted diopter is minimal, practically a non issue, in my experience, unless I'm trying to shoot little itty bitty groups.
My experience mimics yours Joe, except that I have found Japanese scopes need the fine tuning as well. Like you there seems to be such a broad range of "that looks right" when adjusting only to find distant objects seem a bit off, micro fine tuning the diopter has helped in most of these situations. I think too often other shooters using the clear sky/wall method start adjusting until they think the reticle looks good, but in fact the scope could be adjusted "better" for their eyes. The reason we have diopter adjustment is because not all eyes are created equal and we must adjust to our eye. What's interesting is that with binoculars the instructions are to focus on an object and then use the diopter to fine tune, but because of the reticle in a scope, the instructions are different, the preference is toward the reticle - I wonder if there ought not to be better instructions provided by mfr's regarding diopter adjustment.
 
Apr 13, 2006
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Texas Hills
Well I am not sure if this thread cost me $3K for a Minox or saved me $1500 not getting a TT. Anyway thanks for such a great writeup. I have a couple of these scopes and agree with everything you said, so tend to think I will agree with the ones I dont have time behind (Minox and TT). Was set on the TT but the reticle kept me back as for that price it better be perfect. The MR4 looks perfect to me. Hadnt even considered the Minox till I saw this, but just got the call from CSTactical about it last night. Really- thanks again for doing this.
 

wjm308

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Nov 30, 2012
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Well I am not sure if this thread cost me $3K for a Minox or saved me $1500 not getting a TT. Anyway thanks for such a great writeup. I have a couple of these scopes and agree with everything you said, so tend to think I will agree with the ones I dont have time behind (Minox and TT). Was set on the TT but the reticle kept me back as for that price it better be perfect. The MR4 looks perfect to me. Hadnt even considered the Minox till I saw this, but just got the call from CSTactical about it last night. Really- thanks again for doing this.
You will not be disappointed in the Minox ZP5, the MR4 reticle is even better when looking through the scope and the optics are sublime, the turrets allow me to dial a number quickly and accurately. I will be curious to see what new reticle TT has up their sleeve but it's been a while now and still no word, I am very interested in the new ZCO scopes, they have claims that have me thinking they can go toe to toe with TT, but that remains to be seen as there is still no word on their release. Let us know what you think when you get your Minox.
 
Likes: Crang

koshkin

Dark Lord Of Optics
Feb 22, 2006
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Los Angeles
www.opticsthoughts.com
You will not be disappointed in the Minox ZP5, the MR4 reticle is even better when looking through the scope and the optics are sublime, the turrets allow me to dial a number quickly and accurately. I will be curious to see what new reticle TT has up their sleeve but it's been a while now and still no word, I am very interested in the new ZCO scopes, they have claims that have me thinking they can go toe to toe with TT, but that remains to be seen as there is still no word on their release. Let us know what you think when you get your Minox.
I've seen drawings of the new TT reticle and I think it is a thoroughly modern design that will do well.

That having been said, I still really like Gen 2XR and it's comparative simplicity.

A lot of this is personal choice. Some people will go with the new reticle and others will stay with Gen 2XR. I will probably end up using both for different things.

ILya
 

wjm308

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Nov 30, 2012
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I've seen drawings of the new TT reticle and I think it is a thoroughly modern design that will do well.

That having been said, I still really like Gen 2XR and it's comparative simplicity.

A lot of this is personal choice. Some people will go with the new reticle and others will stay with Gen 2XR. I will probably end up using both for different things.

ILya
My guess is once the Gen III XR of whatever they'll call this new "modern" design is out, we might see some existing Gen II XR's fall into the PX at some decent prices, those who don't "need" the latest and greatest often reap the rewards of getting some really good deals on "older" designs, I put older in quotes because it seems we get new designs about every 3-5 years now. I wish my S&B Ultra Short had the Gen II XR reticle, I really liked that reticle in my Premier LT's but admit it could have been a bit thicker in that setup, sounds like it is "just right" in the 5-25 setup.
 
Feb 18, 2017
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Albuquerque, nm
I'm really wondering why the price on minox jumped so high. I bought mine from optics planet December of last year for 2461$ shipped with a 7% discount code. Seems they're selling for 3000 now. As for the warranty, apparently it is now transferable to a second owner, but not a third.
 

wjm308

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Nov 30, 2012
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I'm really wondering why the price on minox jumped so high. I bought mine from optics planet December of last year for 2461$ shipped with a 7% discount code. Seems they're selling for 3000 now. As for the warranty, apparently it is now transferable to a second owner, but not a third.
A lot depends on who and when. Was the Minox you bought the MR4 version? I ask because I've seen better deals on their other reticles. Optics Planet is always hit and miss with the deals, but call up one of the Hide dealers and they'll take care of you.
 

Covertnoob5

Sergeant of the Hide
Feb 12, 2017
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I'm really wondering why the price on minox jumped so high. I bought mine from optics planet December of last year for 2461$ shipped with a 7% discount code. Seems they're selling for 3000 now. As for the warranty, apparently it is now transferable to a second owner, but not a third.
Someone had mentioned that Minox got a military contract of some sort. Not sure if it’s true or not, but that might have something to do with it.
 
Feb 18, 2017
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Albuquerque, nm
I got the mr4 reticle. First one I bought used on here about a year and a half ago for 2550. Came in the black box. The new one I got in December came in a white box. I heard about the mil contract from Blasier Usa. They said it was the cause of the slowdown in shipments to the USA but not sure why the price would drive up other than demand maybe.
 

strk3

New Hide Member
May 27, 2018
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Great conclusion-sad to leave out the SIG tango- 6, i am not a pro but i do shoot at 1000yds r so on a regular basis and also i have NOT spent alot of time behind the other glasses but SOME time/ do yourself a favor - include the tango 6-5x30x56 i bet with my set up i can shoot the end of a bottle at 1000yds-no problem!!-having fun behind the barrel
 

scudzuki

Gunny Sergeant
Jul 1, 2012
2,068
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Philadelphia suburbs
I bought both of my ZP5s from CS Tactical.
I got a better discount on the first (MR2 reticle) than the 2nd (MR4 reticle) but the savings on the 2nd was still pretty substantial.
Give a Hide vendor a call before you buy online.
CS Tactical and CameraLand are 2 of my go to vendors.
 
Apr 13, 2006
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Texas Hills
You will not be disappointed in the Minox ZP5, the MR4 reticle is even better when looking through the scope and the optics are sublime, the turrets allow me to dial a number quickly and accurately. I will be curious to see what new reticle TT has up their sleeve but it's been a while now and still no word, I am very interested in the new ZCO scopes, they have claims that have me thinking they can go toe to toe with TT, but that remains to be seen as there is still no word on their release. Let us know what you think when you get your Minox.
Yeah if TT comes out with a christmas tree center dot type reticle I imagine my Vortex Razor will go up for sale quickly. I love the Razor but like my rifles on the lighter side and its a heavy pig. The TT is still heavy but a half pound lighter. Minox is a full pound lighter so I can go to a heavier barrel and not change the weight. First world problems-
 
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koshkin

Dark Lord Of Optics
Feb 22, 2006
1,457
709
113
Los Angeles
www.opticsthoughts.com
My guess is once the Gen III XR of whatever they'll call this new "modern" design is out, we might see some existing Gen II XR's fall into the PX at some decent prices, those who don't "need" the latest and greatest often reap the rewards of getting some really good deals on "older" designs, I put older in quotes because it seems we get new designs about every 3-5 years now. I wish my S&B Ultra Short had the Gen II XR reticle, I really liked that reticle in my Premier LT's but admit it could have been a bit thicker in that setup, sounds like it is "just right" in the 5-25 setup.
I have Gen II XR in TT315M and it is a little thin on low mag. It basically looks like a thin duplex and my only real complaint with that reticle is that I wish the thick bars were a little thicker. In low light, I just flip the illumination on and it works fine.

I think having a few more of the used TTs in the classifieds will be great for people who have been eyeing them, but couldn't bring themselves to spend the money. How many will actually sell their older TTs is hard to say, of course. I sure as hell will not be selling mine.

ILya
 
Apr 13, 2006
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Texas Hills
Would someone with the 5-25x56 Minox mind measuring the OD of the objective lens for me? Want to get the lowest Spuhr I can on order for it while I wait. There arent as many specs online for this scope it seems.
 
Feb 18, 2017
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Albuquerque, nm
I was shooting a 6x47 Lapua at 3050fps. I never went in to the second Rev with a 200 yard zero. I was dialing 6.5mils for 1000 yards. I guess it depends how far you're shooting and what round you're shooting. Try plugging in your data in to a ballistic app and see what you need if the above isn't helpful
 
Apr 14, 2017
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I have 21- 21.5mil avail on my Minox with 20moa rail and 130-140gr projectiles in the 2800-2900fps range. 1.49" BO mount. 6.5x47. Hope this helps
 
Likes: Crang
May 31, 2017
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I haven’t shot with my Minox Zp5 with mr4 reticle but it is mounted and I have been doing a lot of dryfiring with it. So far I couldn’t be happier. The turrets are very crisp and the stiffness going to the second rev wasn’t nearly as bad as I had thought. That starts at 13.5 mils which for me is about 1350 yards. I’ve only ever shot that far 1 time so I’m not that concerned about it anyway. The reticle is the best I’ve seen so far. It has everything you need and more importantly nothing you don’t. The glass is so good even my wife could tell the difference right away as soon as she looked through it. The parallax is smooth and seems to only need small adjustments, will confirm that when I actually get to the range to shoot it. I haven’t heard of anyone having any issues with tracking so for me this is the perfect scope for my rifle.
I got mine from cstactical and could not have asked for a better experience dealing with them.
 
Apr 14, 2017
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I haven’t shot with my Minox Zp5 with mr4 reticle but it is mounted and I have been doing a lot of dryfiring with it. So far I couldn’t be happier. The turrets are very crisp and the stiffness going to the second rev wasn’t nearly as bad as I had thought. That starts at 13.5 mils which for me is about 1350 yards. I’ve only ever shot that far 1 time so I’m not that concerned about it anyway. The reticle is the best I’ve seen so far. It has everything you need and more importantly nothing you don’t. The glass is so good even my wife could tell the difference right away as soon as she looked through it. The parallax is smooth and seems to only need small adjustments, will confirm that when I actually get to the range to shoot it. I haven’t heard of anyone having any issues with tracking so for me this is the perfect scope for my rifle.
I got mine from cstactical and could not have asked for a better experience dealing with them.
How does the windage turret feel compared to the elevation turret?
 

cuz

Private
Jul 6, 2017
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Great info here, thanks a lot. I am just starting to research a scope to let my wife buy me for Christmas. Going to put it on a Ruger PR that I will get myself for Xmas. Gotta read they this again slower and take some notes.
 

Lo Zio

New Hide Member
Aug 21, 2018
1
0
1
This is exactly what i mean for a professional review! I'm looking for a new optic and this kind of review are very appreciated. congrats.
 
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