Switch Barrel Set Up Pros and Cons

BLOODHOUND BRO

New Hide Member
Apr 12, 2018
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#1
With a $600 stock, $1000 action and a $1500 scope, I can only afford 1 custom rifle, which is why I think many people, like me, are considering switch barrel rigs. The following threads seem to have some great info, but I wanted to start a thread to discuss the pros and cons of the various set ups in one place.

http://forum.snipershide.com/threads/switch-barrel-setup.6885121/
http://forum.snipershide.com/threads/switch-barrel-technology.6529522/
http://forum.snipershide.com/thread...-prefit-switch-barrel-testing-review.6582532/
http://forum.snipershide.com/threads/what-is-the-best-action-for-a-switch-barrel-build.6473249/

I plan on purchasing a Bighorn SR3 (I am mainly interested in WSM/SAUM hunting cartridges for a lightweight LRH rig) with interchangeable bolt heads (.223, Standard and magnum). Since this is the action if have decided on, I have left out the switch barrel options of AI, Curtis Custom, surgeon, etc. My main goal is to be able to switch barrels without removing the scope, while maintaining consistent head space through barrel swaps. I have outlined my own interpretations through my research below. Please feel free to add to and/or correct my assumptions as I have not used any of these systems and it is my goal to understand each of them better.

WTO Switch Lug
Pros -
No scope removal
Hand tighten (no vise, action wrench)
Constant head space
Very little/no special inlet for stock
No contour limitations
Con-
Lack of thread engagement, potential pin shear
will need custom barrel fitting (no prefit)

ARC Barloc
Pros -
No scope removal
Hand tighten (no vise, action wrench)
Constant head space
Very little/no special inlet for stock
No contour limitations
Full thread engagement with cone tension
Some prefits available (ie. PVA)
Con-
Some Pre-fits may not have long enough threads on shank for Barlok

Bugnut
Pro -
Full thread engagement
very little/no special inlet for stock
Constant headspace (w/Loctite?)
No contour limitations
Pre-fits available
Con-
Must remove scope?
Need barrel vise/action wrench/bugnut wrench

Shouldered Barrel w/witness or index marks
Pros-
Full thread engagement
Constant Headspace
No scope removal
Pre-Fits available
No contour limitations
no special inlet
Cons-
Need barrel vise/action wrench

Savage/Remage Barrel Nut w/Loctite
Pros-
Full thread engagement
Constant Headspace (w/Loctite)
Pre-fits available
Cons-
Need barrel vise/action wrench/barrel nut wrench
Must remove Scope
Barrel contour limitations
May be need additional stock inlet

I think I am in between the Barloc and shouldered barrels with index marks for the time being. Would love to have some insight from people who are actually using these switch barrel set ups. Thanks in advance.
 
Last edited:
Feb 21, 2013
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TEXAS
#2
The ARC Barloc or the shouldered barrel would be my only choice. The Barloc is going on my rifle as soon as I get time. I'm swapping shouldered barrels from the 22x47L, 6x47L, 7SAUM. The shouldered barrels and Barloc is the only way to get tension on the threads and shoulders for consistency. Changing scope windage and elevation is the only issue, but in my case it's repeatable. With the Vortex scope and the LTEC it's easy to move it.
 

B-P-UU

Full Member
Feb 13, 2017
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#3
Your zero will change with barrel swaps so not sure why not removing scope is a requirement? I still think shouldered barrels are your best bet.
 
Mar 27, 2012
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#4
Bar lock is nifty but not aesthetically pleasing to some. Best option is shouldered. You don’t always have to crank a shoulder barrel down. Some times a snap of your wrist will get you in the game with zero tools needed. Maybe a combo of both would be best in this case.
 

BLOODHOUND BRO

New Hide Member
Apr 12, 2018
8
1
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#5
Your zero will change with barrel swaps so not sure why not removing scope is a requirement? I still think shouldered barrels are your best bet.
From what I've read, there is a zero shift, but in a lot of cases, it can be logged and repeatable. With scope removal/re-installation, this will not be the case.
 
Likes: Covertnoob5

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
462
155
43
#6
I'm going to use a Barloc on a Nucleus with Savage pre-fit barrels. This combo seems to be the most compatible with off the shelf parts (due to the bolt face to action face measurement).

No barrel chambering and threading required because a pre-fit already has it.

I plan to use witness marks to try to time the barrel exactly before and after a swap but I might go a little further, loktite the barrel nut and create some sort of jig to hold the barrel nut and receiver in alignment while the Barloc is being tightened.

If timing is maintained, the curve of the barrel will be in the same plane so your dope shouldn't change much after you re-zero.
 

Potss

Full Member
Feb 16, 2017
525
45
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#7
From what I've read, there is a zero shift, but in a lot of cases, it can be logged and repeatable. With scope removal/re-installation, this will not be the case.

....I mean, that is what QD mounts are for. Spend on a Bobro QD mount, and your scope mounting return to zero issue is 99.99% solved. Testing showed <.1moa repeatable zero shift, and if you want even less SPHUR makes a QD mount too.

My vote is shouldered on an action where you don't need a smith to spin it up every time to your individual spec (like the Bighorn). If it is on a savage or Tikka or similar action, get a prefit with a barrel nut instead.
 

Ledzep

Chancellor
Jun 9, 2009
1,307
140
63
Black Hills
#8
Barloc user here. On my shouldered barrel, return to zero is within probably 1/2 MOA from one install to the next. I shot 5x, 3 shot groups at 100 with a barrel removal/install in between each and it printed a 1.6"ish 15 shot total group.

Barloc with a savage-style nut seems to be much more picky. Where the nut clocks pushes POI around and in my case I can move windage around 4-5 MOA based on where the nut clocks.

To be very clear, in either case, once the Barloc is tightened, zero does not move around. This is only from one install to the next that I'm talking about shifts. And this is only 1 or 2 outings worth of data. Going to be a busy couple weeks ahead, but by mid June I should have some more testing done. My SPR Bartlein .260 prefit shot a couple .58-.63" 10-shot groups at 100yd the other day with 7fps SD (random load, virgin brass, bullets I have never used before in this barrel), and I won a local 200-1200yd PRS style match this weekend so the accuracy and zero-holding is there for sure with the Barloc.

ETA: I got the Barloc not so much to switch barrels out "often", but more to save me the headache of having to send the action off and wait for rebarreling. With that in mind, and understanding a quick zero-check is in order each time to fine-tune things, I'm pretty happy with the Barloc.
 
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Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,376
247
63
Pacific Northwest
#9
I vote shouldered as well. You don't need witness or index marks, just a torque wrench. It's going to be the most solid, most fail safe and reliable system available. Anything that requires the user to set headspace with a go-gauge and some sort of locking device has greater potential for user error or at least less consistent headspace.

Since you've decided on Bighorn SR3 for the action, a key question is whether the gunsmiths who do TL3 shouldered barrels w/o needing the action can do a barrel for the SR3. In other words, do the TL3 and SR3 headspace and index the same? I would call Bighorn/Zermatt and ask because that affects your options for getting a barrel. There are some low cost options for a full shouldered TL3 barrel, and my guess is that those may work on the SR3 as well. Not sure though...

There are two main reasons you would want to start to mess with all the other devices that use some sort of locking barrel nut or add-on. The first and main reason is cost - buying a cheap prefit blank like a criterion. The second is convenience, since some of those devices allow for barrel swaps without pulling the action out of the stock, which saves maybe 5 minutes.

The cost side of things can be matched or beat by the TL3 shouldered prefit options (if they fit the SR3). The convenience side of things can be matched or beat by an approach like outlined in this thread...

http://forum.snipershide.com/thread...ystem-tl3-xlr-evo-6-dasher-223-wylde.6667070/

And if you don't need to swap barrels on the fly at the range then it's no big deal if you spend 5-10 minutes taking the action out of the stock and change barrels at home in the traditional fashion before you go shoot.

Side note, I think a lot of zero shift repeatability can come from taking the action out of the stock and putting it back in the exact same way. A bedded stock will have a bit of an advantage there, but that's another thing you need to be consistent on for how you torque the stock back in the action.
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
462
155
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#10
A switch barrel using a device like a Barloc has a lot more convenience than just being able to rebarrel without removing the action from the stock/chassis.

If you can install and remove a barrel without an action wrench or barrel vise, that is very convenient no matter where you swap the barrel.

I'll probably remove my action from its chassis any time I switch barrels so that I can use a witness mark underneath the barrel that the chassis will hide.

Taking five minutes to do that is far less inconvenient than bringing a barrel vise and action wrench out in the field or or even rebarreling in a shop if you have to use a barrel vise and action wrench.
 

BLOODHOUND BRO

New Hide Member
Apr 12, 2018
8
1
3
#11
The cost side of things can be matched or beat by the TL3 shouldered prefit options (if they fit the SR3). The convenience side of things can be matched or beat by an approach like outlined in this thread...

http://forum.snipershide.com/thread...ystem-tl3-xlr-evo-6-dasher-223-wylde.6667070/
That setup is extremely interesting. Seems like the best of all worlds. Only thing I can see being an issue is placing 50-100 ft lbs of torque on the end of the barrel with smaller contours. Obviously is hasn't been an issue for him with that repeatability.
 

BLOODHOUND BRO

New Hide Member
Apr 12, 2018
8
1
3
#12
Since you've decided on Bighorn SR3 for the action, a key question is whether the gunsmiths who do TL3 shouldered barrels w/o needing the action can do a barrel for the SR3. In other words, do the TL3 and SR3 headspace and index the same? I would call Bighorn/Zermatt and ask because that affects your options for getting a barrel. There are some low cost options for a full shouldered TL3 barrel, and my guess is that those may work on the SR3 as well. Not sure though...
Great point, I just got off the phone with Bighorn - the SR3 and TL3 do headspace and index the same, so pre-fits are good to go. The only reason I went with SR3 is that I am looking to run BDL.

Thanks for the comment.
 

BigHorn / ZAI Team

Aaron, Eric, Ray
Jul 24, 2017
42
47
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Bennet, NE
www.bighornarms.com
#14
Since you've decided on Bighorn SR3 for the action, a key question is whether the gunsmiths who do TL3 shouldered barrels w/o needing the action can do a barrel for the SR3. In other words, do the TL3 and SR3 headspace and index the same? I would call Bighorn/Zermatt and ask because that affects your options for getting a barrel. There are some low cost options for a full shouldered TL3 barrel, and my guess is that those may work on the SR3 as well. Not sure though...
TL3 and SR3 SHORT Actions have the same head space dimensions and indexing. The same is true with the TL3 and SR3 LONG Actions. The SA's and LA's, however, are NOT the same.

A little behind the scenes look here...action blanks are made with all features needed prior to becoming "a real action" in large lots controlling the dimensional tolerance and indexing. Once that is done, we have the ability to make any one of our 120 different short action or 84 different long action configurations in to the "real action" you all receive.

Thanks - Ray
 
Feb 13, 2017
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Orlando
#15
Glad this popped up. Been looking at these ideas over the last year. I really like the flats idea. What about carbon fiber barrels? Obviously you can do it the old fashioned way, was wondering if anybody has tried something different with them.
 
Nov 24, 2013
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Dallas
#16
ETA: I got the Barloc not so much to switch barrels out "often", but more to save me the headache of having to send the action off and wait for rebarreling. With that in mind, and understanding a quick zero-check is in order each time to fine-tune things, I'm pretty happy with the Barloc.
That is exactly the functionality I am looking for out of the Barloc... my experience with other, "designed-in" quick-change barrel setups (DTA, AIAT) is very similar. When going from barrel to barrel on a DTA or AIAT, my experience is that you'll be on paper at 100 yards, but will need to set the final zero via the optic.

Overall, it's something I can live with, given the other advantages of the system(s).
 

Dthomas3523

Blind Squirrel
Jan 31, 2018
1,154
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South Texas
#17
FYI, you can have flats milled just behind the muzzle threads (or muzzle if not threaded) into your shouldered barrels. This allows you to use a crows foot and torque wrench. No vice/scope removal/chassis removal required.

This also allows you to purchase used barrels already shouldered for your Bighorn that aren’t spaced for the barloc. Just have a smith mill the flats in.
 

lash

Swamp Rat
Sep 28, 2012
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#18
The whole idea of flats milled into the end of the barrel has intrigued me for a while. But I have always wondered if it would affect accuracy or repeatibility (precision).
 
Oct 31, 2017
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#19
Bartlien will manufacture a barrel for you with a shank diameter larger than 1.25", at no additional cost. Call them up and ask them if they will keep the breech shank "as large as possible". Large as possible means the diameter that the breech first cleans up to run true in their lathes. When I ordered my barrel, they told me to expect a breech shank diameter around 1.290" to 1.300".

The blanks they use to manufacture their barrels with evidently come with diameters a little larger than 1.300". When the exterior is turned down to running true to center in their lathe, they typically measure 1.290" to 1.300" in diameter.

Oh..., this was for a stainless steel barrel. I can't speak to their CM barrel blanks. Best to talk with them to confirm what is possible.

My .338 SS Bartlein barrel has a breech shank diameter of ~1.303". I wanted a little larger than 1.25", which is the minimum recommended by BAT. Some gunsmiths feel the additional breech shank diameter is helpful to stable accuracy...
 
Jan 19, 2011
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#20
I'm considering barloc myself. It is my understanding that you still need to use a headspace gauge / GO-NO GO gauges to set your headspace everytime. It is not as simple as an AI AXMC / AX barrel swap. You need to be precise as to set your headspace the same everytime so you are not jumping around on your headspace which there chances your jump to lands which could throw off the accuracy of your ammo.

I have a friend that has a Defiance Deviant switch barrel setup and loves it. He uses a standard action wrench to change barrels. He has:

.223AI
6mm Creedmoor
.260 rem
.308
6.5 SAUM

he runs shouldered barrels and just screws them back in and since they are shouldered the headspace is not an issue to return to easily


On another note, even though the TL3 actions are INSANELY consistent action to action Josh at PVA I believe measures your specific action (if bought through him) and saves info so you can just literally call him and order a barrel that screws in with perfect headspacing

I think machined flats are they way to go. It would be nice to see a long term test on a shouldered barrel taken off and torqued down an excessive amount of times to see if it has any detrimental effects to the barrel.
 
Likes: bjay

Dthomas3523

Blind Squirrel
Jan 31, 2018
1,154
327
83
South Texas
#21
I'm considering barloc myself. It is my understanding that you still need to use a headspace gauge / GO-NO GO gauges to set your headspace everytime. It is not as simple as an AI AXMC / AX barrel swap. You need to be precise as to set your headspace the same everytime so you are not jumping around on your headspace which there chances your jump to lands which could throw off the accuracy of your ammo.

I have a friend that has a Defiance Deviant switch barrel setup and loves it. He uses a standard action wrench to change barrels. He has:

.223AI
6mm Creedmoor
.260 rem
.308
6.5 SAUM

he runs shouldered barrels and just screws them back in and since they are shouldered the headspace is not an issue to return to easily


On another note, even though the TL3 actions are INSANELY consistent action to action Josh at PVA I believe measures your specific action (if bought through him) and saves info so you can just literally call him and order a barrel that screws in with perfect headspacing

I think machined flats are they way to go. It would be nice to see a long term test on a shouldered barrel taken off and torqued down an excessive amount of times to see if it has any detrimental effects to the barrel.
They will measure at PVA and keep on file if you want them to(as will any Smith). They will also make you a barrel to the standard TL3 spec sight unseen.

Barloc with a shouldered barrel instructions say to measure headspace each time. Though I’d assume this is just to make sure the dimensions of the barloc haven’t changed from repeated mounting. I’m theory and perfect world, I’d think it should work without headspace gauge. Of course for a savage or remade style prefit, you will always need headspace gauge no matter what.
 

Bradu

Full Member
Aug 24, 2011
1,582
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#22
I recently quit pulling the barreled action to swap barrels. I pull the scope just because I think the action could possibly twist a little and it's only two nuts.
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
462
155
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#23
Savage small shank barrel threads are 20 tpi which means you have about a 30° window for headspace (assuming 0.004" between GO and NO-GO).

It's pretty easy to eyeball 5° or less and probably impossible to thread a turn too far or tighten up a turn too soon so if you loktite your Barloc barrel nut and pay attention, you probably don't need headspace gauges after you headspace it the first time.

Of course you should understand that you are trying to make it impossible to time up at +360°, +180°, -180° or -360°, confirm your work and check headspace whenever possible when you switch barrels.

It's not quite as simple as tightening a shoulder against an action face but it's a lot less likely to loosen while shooting.
 

reubenski

First Sergeant
Jun 8, 2008
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Colorado Springs, CO
#24
I'm 5 barrels deep in my shouldered, machined-barrel flat, crowsfoot version. I have found no issues so far. RTZ (return to zero) has been on point through the duration. Fear of twisting an action or barrel at 40 ft/lbs is unfounded. Witness marks arent necessary; once the shoulder hits the action the barrel doesn't thread more. You're just loading the threads more; not stretching them.

Its too simple but folks seem to think some complex solution is required. I can't imagine that the Barloc will have as consistent rtz as a shouldered barrel to torque.
 
Likes: Sheldon N

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
462
155
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#25
So five times you've paid a gunsmith to custom chamber, thread, shoulder and flat a barrel for you?

That's some complexity and a bunch of cost too.

The Barloc is essentially a miniaturized and somewhat improved version of a jack screw. It's old technology that is used a lot but just on things mostly too big for hand tools. Everything a multi-bolt jack screw is good at a Barloc is good at too but the toroidal geometry automatically compensated for misalignment in the action face, barrel nut or shoulder and it tightens without rotation so you don't have to worry about clocking (if you have accurate witness marks), frictional thread wear or variation in applied torque (within reason).

That complexity is a fixed cost and it's pretty robust. I'm not worried about breaking a Barloc.

It's a trade-off, I'm going for Barloc because it is going to be cheaper right away, cheaper to add barrels, gives me the benefits mentioned above and will let me do barrel changes with hand tools.
 

Bradu

Full Member
Aug 24, 2011
1,582
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IL
#26
So five times you've paid a gunsmith to custom chamber, thread, shoulder and flat a barrel for you?

That's some complexity and a bunch of cost too.

The Barloc is essentially a miniaturized and somewhat improved version of a jack screw. It's old technology that is used a lot but just on things mostly too big for hand tools. Everything a multi-bolt jack screw is good at a Barloc is good at too but the toroidal geometry automatically compensated for misalignment in the action face, barrel nut or shoulder and it tightens without rotation so you don't have to worry about clocking (if you have accurate witness marks), frictional thread wear or variation in applied torque (within reason).

That complexity is a fixed cost and it's pretty robust. I'm not worried about breaking a Barloc.

It's a trade-off, I'm going for Barloc because it is going to be cheaper right away, cheaper to add barrels, gives me the benefits mentioned above and will let me do barrel changes with hand tools.
You are still paying for chambering and threading regardless of the setup. You have to have go/no go on savage style prefits even if you only use them once as you're saying. In his case that's 5 sets unless he's running 308, 260 and 243 barrels that all use the same gauge. It's a wash regardless of how you look at it unless you have to send your action off every time. I like the KISS method personally, action wrench and barrel vise are a one time purchase and it's not difficult to do. It's not time consuming either lol.
 

reubenski

First Sergeant
Jun 8, 2008
737
114
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Colorado Springs, CO
#27
"So five times you've paid a gunsmith to custom chamber, thread, shoulder and flat a barrel for you?"

Yep, that's how barrels work. Its not complex for me; a gunsmith does it. If you're implying that using savage prefits is more simplerer, I've got one of those too with loctite and a set screw thru the nut to convert it to a shouldered barrel. That was actually more involved and only a little cheaper. I use shouldered barrels bc I want specific freebores and cut rifles barrels. Comparing shouldered vs nut'd prefit in a Barloc vs ...non-barloc (?] Is apples and oranges.

.....but the toroidal geometry automatically compensated for misalignment in the action face, barrel nut or shoulder and it tightens without rotation so you don't have to worry about clocking (if you have accurate witness marks), frictional thread wear or variation in applied torque...
Everything you brought up are made up problems. None of those are real concerns using this method.
 

reubenski

First Sergeant
Jun 8, 2008
737
114
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Colorado Springs, CO
#29
You might not be concerned, I would rather have non-issues and install barrels on my schedule for $0.
On your schefule? Have you found a place that has prefit barrels offering custom length, contour, and muzzle threads on the shelf? Ready to ship? Every one I've ordered has had a longer turn around time than ordering a blank from bugholes and having my Smith who's shop is 5 minutes from my work chamber it. But you might have a special hookup since you're paying 0$ for barrels.

BTW, do you have a Barloc equipped switch barrel rifle that you've tested?
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
462
155
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#31
Maybe I'm not terribly picky about the barrel profile but I seem to find close enough to what I'm looking for pretty much off the shelf or a regular catalog item.

If I'm in a real hurry to get an oddball, I guess I could find a barrel blank in the right profile (or as close as I can get) and then find a gunsmith that can chamber it and thread the ends.

I am waiting on my action so no, I don't have it yet. I wish I could have it on my schedule but I'm just waiting with my parts.

Have you got your hands on a Barloc? If not ARC has a nice video on their Facebook page showing how it works.

I have screwed shouldered barrels on to actions so I know how that works and the pain in the ass it can be when everything isn't perfect.
 

Ledzep

Chancellor
Jun 9, 2009
1,307
140
63
Black Hills
#34
No closer to which way to go. I wonder which will have the staying power. Somebody with 20k to burn rig up a test between the flats, switchlug, and barloc.
Probably nobody can shoot the difference. Plus and minus all around, the only one I'm not too keen on is the switch lug for having to drill holes in the action face.

Between flats and the Barloc, I'd expect the shouldered barrel with flats to be a little more repeatable for POA/POI, but will be less forgiving in terms of headspace. Smith has a .004" window (ideally .002"), where the Barloc can be stretched open a little by torquing the barrel on before tightening the screw, or it can grow lengthwise by ~0.010" or a little more to accomodate a much wider window of shoulder positions while maintaining proper headspace.
 

reubenski

First Sergeant
Jun 8, 2008
737
114
43
38
Colorado Springs, CO
#35
Headspace is no more an issue with a shouldered barrel in a switch barrel set up than in a conventional non-switching rifle. No forgiveness required; it is set. Just use a Smith who can chamber a barrel properly (common denominator in all setups) and you're gtg. You don't have to worry about installing the barrel to proper headspace every time you swap a barrel like you will with a nut'd prefit or non-shouldered barloc.

I think it should be noted by the proponents of the varying systems voicing their opinions what their intended use is and if they have actually used said system. If your a barrel replacement guy who intends to pull a barrel once every 7 months then that should be taken into consideration when voicing your opinion of why a barrel nut is cheaper and therefore better. Or if your championing the barloc as the superior mechanical system it would be good context for other shooters to know that you haven't switched barrels with it yet bc you ordered 3 with your nucleus pre-order and are still waiting to receive the rifle.
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
462
155
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#36
If context is what you want, a barrel is essentially a threaded fastener and I've been studying, designing and specifying high performance threaded fasteners on and off for about 26 years.

The funny thing about decades of experience is that you can use examples from the past to accurately predict the behavior of things that you have only seen.

I have installed shouldered barrels so we're even except for maybe that 26 years of high performance fastener work.

And yes, I have three Barlocs on order. I'm confident that it will do exactly what I think it will and what it's advertised to do so I put money on it.
 

reubenski

First Sergeant
Jun 8, 2008
737
114
43
38
Colorado Springs, CO
#37
If context is what you want, a barrel is essentially a threaded fastener and I've been studying, designing and specifying high performance threaded fasteners on and off for about 26 years.

The funny thing about decades of experience is that you can use examples from the past to accurately predict the behavior of things that you have only seen.

I have installed shouldered barrels so we're even except for maybe that 26 years of high performance fastener work.

And yes, I have three Barlocs on order. I'm confident that it will do exactly what I think it will and what it's advertised to do so I put money on it.
So you haven't actually swapped barrels on either of these systems looking for RTZ, consistency of headspace, or ease of use?

How about this, are you (or are you going to be) a barrel replacement guy or a true barrel swapping switch-barrel user?
 
Likes: Bradu

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
462
155
43
#38
I've fixed a few FALs with barrel timing issues. That's kind of hard seeing as how the timing effects both the POI and POA (barrel mounted front sight).

In the process I had to take the barrel off and put it back on a few times, each time noting the POI. Usually it's a combination of poor timing and out of square shoulders.

Of course headspace in a FAL is set a different way but after timing it up, the headspace change was so small that the original locking shoulder was fine.

I've screwed other barrels on to other rifles but never specifically for a switch barrel. Years ago I had a little Browning .22 takedown, it seemed to return to zero pretty good, I think it had a type of threaded adjusting nut, I didn't own it very long.

I've had relevant experience if you only count guns as relevant. I've had plenty more in non gun stuff that uses fasteners in a similar way.

I'm sorry to have to turn this around on you but did you go to your gunsmith and tell him how to do a switch barrel setup or did you ask for a switch barrel and this is what you got?
 

Bradu

Full Member
Aug 24, 2011
1,582
83
48
IL
#42
I've fixed a few FALs with barrel timing issues. That's kind of hard seeing as how the timing effects both the POI and POA (barrel mounted front sight).

In the process I had to take the barrel off and put it back on a few times, each time noting the POI. Usually it's a combination of poor timing and out of square shoulders.

Of course headspace in a FAL is set a different way but after timing it up, the headspace change was so small that the original locking shoulder was fine.

I've screwed other barrels on to other rifles but never specifically for a switch barrel. Years ago I had a little Browning .22 takedown, it seemed to return to zero pretty good, I think it had a type of threaded adjusting nut, I didn't own it very long.

I've had relevant experience if you only count guns as relevant. I've had plenty more in non gun stuff that uses fasteners in a similar way.

I'm sorry to have to turn this around on you but did you go to your gunsmith and tell him how to do a switch barrel setup or did you ask for a switch barrel and this is what you got?
Lol about the browning takedown rifle. The front and rear sight are mounted on the barrel so I would hope it has repeatability
 
Likes: lash

lash

Swamp Rat
Sep 28, 2012
2,892
562
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Central Florida
#43
Lol about the browning takedown rifle. The front and rear sight are mounted on the barrel so I would hope it has repeatability
I have one of those too. They are a fun little rifle to shoot and are great for casual shooting of shooting trees against a friend.

As to a switch barrel set up, I had discussed this with my smith and he recommends a shouldered barrel set up. Reading through this thread, ruebinski's thread and elsewhere, I'm going for the flats and torque wrench with crow's foot method. Different strokes and all.
 

Bradu

Full Member
Aug 24, 2011
1,582
83
48
IL
#44
I have one of those too. They are a fun little rifle to shoot and are great for casual shooting of shooting trees against a friend.
My brother is the one that owns it but I shot it quite a bit growing up. They are an accurate and fun shooting gun.
 

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,376
247
63
Pacific Northwest
#45
Just ordered a pair of Bighorn TL3 223 trainer barrels from Keystone Accuracy, one for me and one for a friend. Full shouldered barrels, don't need to send him my action. Sounds like leads times will be very short as well, since he does the barrel contouring in house and doesn't need to wait for a certain blank to come in.

Went back and forth deciding between a button rifled blank $379 all-in chambered and threaded muzzle or a Krieger at $599 all-in. Decided on the Krieger since both were such a reasonable cost. I penciled out the math and it's only about a 2.5 cents per shot difference or $180/year if I'm shooting 7500 rounds/year.

Have heard good things about Keystone's work, excited to see how they shoot.
 
Likes: echo6tango
Apr 24, 2017
844
122
43
Hoover, Alabama
#46
Just ordered a pair of Bighorn TL3 223 trainer barrels from Keystone Accuracy, one for me and one for a friend. Full shouldered barrels, don't need to send him my action. Sounds like leads times will be very short as well, since he does the barrel contouring in house and doesn't need to wait for a certain blank to come in.

Went back and forth deciding between a button rifled blank $379 all-in chambered and threaded muzzle or a Krieger at $599 all-in. Decided on the Krieger since both were such a reasonable cost. I penciled out the math and it's only about a 2.5 cents per shot difference or $180/year if I'm shooting 7500 rounds/year.

Have heard good things about Keystone's work, excited to see how they shoot.
I had never heard of them before. I went and looked them up and they support Sky High for Saint Jude. The wife and I have volunteered at some of their skeet shoots and it is an excellent cause. Keystone Accuracy will certainly have my business.
 
Feb 13, 2017
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Orange Park,FL
#47
I've got two keystone barrels now. John does great work. His turn around time is incredible. I ordered a button rifled trainer barrel at 2pm one afternoon and had a shipping notification the next morning when I woke up. Mind you the barrels are not pre manufactured.

I will only buy shouldered as it is just too simple to install one. I have one kreiger and just got the button. Really looking forward to trying it out!
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
462
155
43
#48
Lol about the browning takedown rifle. The front and rear sight are mounted on the barrel so I would hope it has repeatability
I forgot about that part, like I said, I didn't have it long.

I guess I'll be in the minority with my Barloc until I can get it together and document it's return to zero performance.

I think I'll cook up some good tests to determine how much curve my barrels have and how much barrel timing will effect POI at range although I will probably only have 100 yards available to me for testing initially.
 

reubenski

First Sergeant
Jun 8, 2008
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Colorado Springs, CO
#49
Through my first week of testing the ARC BarLoc has about 0.5mil adjustment to RTZ on a 6.5CM and 0.2mil adjustment to RTZ on a .223.
Ya, I was reading your review. Interesting. Looks like it can be a bit touchy depending on how much you torque the set screw in the Barloc. I seem to recall from watching the YouTube video a couple of months ago that there is a compounding effect from tighteninv the Barloc with a hex key; results in big torque numbers on the barrel shoulder and action face as the Barloc spreads the collars. Kind of a pro and con. Big grip but sensitive to zero shift maybe?
 
Apr 24, 2017
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Hoover, Alabama
#50
Yeah the rings of the BarLoc have a flat face that shoulder up against the barrel and action. The opposing side, that faces the BarLoc, is conical, so as you apply torque they expand putting the system in tension. It is a compounding effect as only 90in-lbs on the BarLoc will require greater than 90in-lbs with an action wrench to get the action off.

I gusss I could try lower torque settings and see if the repeatability improves.

I really like the ease of the system. It literally takes longer to change the bolt face or load up a .223 mag than to change the barrel.

Like I said previously those results were only over three range trips in which quanlifying the BarLoc was not really the objective of the day. I’ll update the review when I have more data.
 
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