Swiss K31: Stunning

Davo308

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Recently picked up a walnut stocked K31. The grain in the stock called to me, although I'm having some difficulty capturing the striping in all it's glory with pictures.
Thats a stunner. Love the figure in that walnut.

What year? Any tags?
 
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Davo308

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If you do reload, you'll need either a .311 or .3105 bullet.

That GP11 ammo is absolutely top notch though. 174gr rebated boat tail.
GP11 is also getting expensive.

Which swiss rifles need a .311 or .315 bullet?
 

Calfed

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Nice one Calfed!
Thanks, Hetzer

I got to the range earlier this week and shot the K31 with some GP11 Swiss surplus. This thing shoots as good as it looks.

I started out shooting at the target "pumpkin on a post" because my experience has been that military rifles frequently shoot high at 100 yards. In this case, it was pretty close to being right on. The "pumpkin on a post shots" proved that the rifle was close on elevation, so I tried shooting at the red bullseye. The group was much smaller, which, I guess, proves the adage "aim small, miss small".

The very first shot is the one at about 8 o'clock in the 8 ring. The 5 at the bottom were the "pumpkin on a post" shots, The small group above the red dot in the center were aimed at the red dot, so the rifle is shooting a bit high...maybe correctly for a target that is at 100 yards rather than 100 meters.

Target is a 12" reactive

 
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Halfnutz

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I don't own one but drool over them especially from the emails I recieve from https://edelweissarms.com/.
I haven't dealt with the company so I can't comment on thier products other than they have some pretty unique items from time to time... at a price. A co-worker ordered some GP11 from them and seemed prretty content with his purchase. Not sure if they still have any in stock.

I've read somewhere that alot of the nicks in the butstock are from the hobnail boots they wore and thier manual of arms.
Great piece of history, design and craftsmanship.
 
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Halfnutz

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1/2Nutz........... I know the General Manager and I can tell you the mother company is HUGE. It's in Switzerland and they have 3 satellite facilities in the US. In the US their name is Edelweiss, but this is who they really are.............. https://kriss-usa.com/

Their word is their bond, second only to Bob Simpson's operation.
Are you refering to Simpson's Collectable Firearms in Galesburg Il?
 

eicas

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I just ordered some GP11 from them and their customer service and order followup has been nothing but spectacular. (I should know...I order a BUNCH of stuff...just ask the wife!!). Simpsons is great as well. Well worth the drive to visit.
 

ptosis

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1/2Nutz........... I know the General Manager and I can tell you the mother company is HUGE. It's in Switzerland and they have 3 satellite facilities in the US. In the US their name is Edelweiss, but this is who they really are.............. https://kriss-usa.com/

Their word is their bond, second only to Bob Simpson's operation.
+100.
I know them from the Swiss side of things. These are very serious and dependable people.
 

zfk55sr

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I've always heard people rant and rave that K31's were the "swiss watch" of the milsurp world, how they would easily cost $1000-2000 or more to make to the same level of quality today, yadda yadda... I've handle a few briefly and thought they were cool enough, but never got too serious about them because I was only really interested in rifles from combative parties in WWI and WWII.

Last week I bought one, a 1935 Walnut-stock all matching example with a no-d&t scope mount and Weaver K4-W scope. Over the last several days I've been looking it over very closely and have been just blown away at the craftsmanship and execution of manufacture. Most of the parts in the bolt have small peens from being hardness tested for QC. Surface finish is smooth but not polished over; sharp. The striker appears to have been machined, heat treated, then ground to final dimensions. The bolt as a whole is pretty brilliant and I can't fathom how such a piece was made in 1935 on manual machinery with such great final fit/finish. The bolt/extractor doesn't change orientation-- the sleeve rotates around it to lock into place and it appears there are corresponding helical surfaces on the breech face of the barrel that interact with the front of the locking lugs.

Taking the handguard off showed an evenly spaced free floating barrel channel up until the last inch or so of stock, which was a perfect contoured match to the barrel. The damn rear band retainer leaf spring is held into the stock with an escutcheon! Not just a peg in a hole as seen with Mausers, Mosins etc... The handguard and stock fit together and line up extremely well and it's surprisingly beefy and comfortable.

The trigger is awesome. A long, butter smooth first stage followed by the crispest, cleanest breaking "heavy" (over 3lb) trigger I think I've ever felt. I got the package for $500 and now that I've seen what all is going on here I'm kicking myself for not buying a few of them @ $179-250 a piece. Just incredible stuff-- hard to wrap my mind around all of this for a military service rifle. The gentleman I bought it from said he's got some GP11 and commercial ammo somewhere he's going to try to find it and let me know. I can't wait to shoot this thing.

I'm not sure if I'll keep the scope on there or not. I guess I'll have to shoot it with and without and see how big a difference it makes. As far as notch and blade sights go, these are pretty good. Anyway, just a really cool rifle I felt compelled to share. My knowledge/experience with them is still pretty novice so if anyone has some helpful hints/tricks I'm all ears. One thing I've thought about maybe doing is steaming out a few dings in the stock. The grain, especially towards the back is really nice and would look a lot better without all the small dents. Enough blabbering, pictures! :)

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welcome to my world
Welcome to my world ledzep. It appears that you have one of our mounts and I'm assuming you already know corrects zeroing for an offset mount. On the K 31 is the same as the M1 D Garand, just on the opposite side. You can zero it at 50 or hundred yards as in the diagram and it will stay the same out to a thousand yards and beyond, and that rifle is fully capable of thousand yards shooting. That rear site isn't stepped out to 1500 m just for fun. I think you probably already know that the Guinness world record for long distance shooting with an open sight is held by K 31 rifle. As for GP 11 ammunition, it still is available and will be for a while to come. You have to watch for it on the different forms but I can tell you that Edelweiss always has it in stock.

Edelweiss is one of the three satellite facilities belonging to Kriss in Switzerland, the largest of its kind in Europe for Swiss firearm manufacture and parts. The GP 11 began a new run three years ago and is currently available only in Canada and Europe. Until all of the GP 11 ammunition in Switzerland is gone, the new run will not show up in the US.

Kriss has the market cornered for both firearms and ammunition since they are in Switzerland and have very strong ties to the armories any munitions plants. They recently had a black Friday sale with G11 rifles selling at less than $300, and and they can easily do that since they buy their rifles directly from armories and private parties in Switzerland at very low prices and can set the US prices at whatever they want.

You probably already know this, but I'm going to give you our diagram from our website for zeroing in any offset right or offset left scope mount.
 

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Ledzep

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I very recently ordered a 1911, K11 and 06/24 Luger from Edelweiss. Very excited to pick them up from the local FFL.

I think a ZFK 31/43 is up next for the Swiss corner. Probably a 55 to follow... In due time :)
 
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zfk55sr

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It's good to see a man with big Big BIG Vana White bucks and good taste to boot! LOL
When you do get your K 31/43, check the scope for clouding. If it is, we are the only repair station in the continental United States authorized to service those scopes.

Whatever you do, please don't attempt to open the scope yourself. It requires highly specialized armory tools to do it and once taken apart, the chances of your getting it back together are very slim indeed.
 
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Ledzep

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While we're here, where's a good place to get a set of diopter/globe sights for these guns?

Either K31 or 1911. I've just got dies for 7.5x55 and was looking for a way to get into some more positional iron sights shooting and I think these Swiss rifles are a perfect fit.
 

sandwarrior

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While we're here, where's a good place to get a set of diopter/globe sights for these guns?

Either K31 or 1911. I've just got dies for 7.5x55 and was looking for a way to get into some more positional iron sights shooting and I think these Swiss rifles are a perfect fit.
zfk55sr..... Swiss products....and yeah, I'm waiting for the turkey to cool down so I can carve it.:rolleyes:
 
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Ledzep

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Got the K11 and 1911 in today!

Getting ready to move soon but I'm excited to get the press set back up and start loading for these. Now to decide which to set up for diopter sights.... The 1911's sight radius would be impressive, probably the best trigger of the bunch, too. That said, the k31 is a definite upgrade in how the action works/feels.

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acudaowner

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can hardly wait till I have one of my own they are sweet looking guns .
 

zfk55sr

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Ledzep, I bought my first rifle in 1959 in a hardware store for $12.50 for the rifle and one box of GP11 ammunition. I rotated out of the service in 1964 and began in earnest to work with Swiss rifles and collecting load data. That same G11 from 1959 is my go to rifle for long-distance load data testing. In order of inherent accuracy you have the G11, the K31 and the K11 being the least accurate. Whoever was talking about K 31 bolt operating smoother is incorrect.

You have a great collection rifles there and if they are zeroed for 6 to 8 inches above your bull's-eye, that means you have the original issue 300 m front site blade. You will find the replacement blades for 100 yard shooting at swissproductsusa.com note that the K 11 and the K 31 site blades are identical in that they are slanted for easy windage adjustment. The G 11 however, is a different site blade and base. That particular one installs from the side whereas the K31 and the K11 install from the front or rear.

On that same website in the FAQ section you will find a reloading tutorial that's meant specifically for the 7.5 x 55 and no other. If your load data is good, following that exact seizure is going to give you minute of angle with this rifle. In the FAQ section the "powders and project goals" section will give you a good spread of projectile profiles and powders and the results. The only one that's not in there yet is the one we've been using for some time for a couple of good reasons that I'll post later, but that involves the 175 BergerVLD and the 175 SMK Reloder 17 powder behind it. The Reloder 17 powder is the exact powder used in the GP 11 cartridge since 1889 all the way up to and including use in the ZFK55 sniper rifle to the Swiss Army MG51 machine gun which is currently the only firearm in the Swiss Army that still uses that cartridge.
 
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Davo308

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An information bulletin:
Graf & Sons has the 174 gr. PPU that is very close to the Ruag 174 gr. bullet, back in stock.


Search in .30 cal bullets. It will probably be the last one for PPU
How does that PPU group compared to GP11?

I got a case of GP11 recently and the local ranges don't like cupro nickel jackets.
 

sandwarrior

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How does that PPU group compared to GP11?


I got a case of GP11 recently and the local ranges don't like cupro nickel jackets.
I can't say from this rifle as I have not been able to garner any GP11 in my price range, at the time I have money in my pocket. I have more than one hole burned in each pocket. 😁

However, this rifle has shot the PPU bullets very well and printed 4" 5-shot groups @ 400 yds. Now that I've talked the talk, I hope I can walk the walk again.:rolleyes:
 
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mcfred

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So, I've looked at these K31s for a long while. I hear a lot about "Swiss quality" and accuracy etc. So, anyone got one of those Teslong Bore Cams they could run own the barrel to have a look of the finish/throat for giggles?
 

Huskydriver

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So, I've looked at these K31s for a long while. I hear a lot about "Swiss quality" and accuracy etc. So, anyone got one of those Teslong Bore Cams they could run own the barrel to have a look of the finish/throat for giggles?
If I remember right these were of my k31

IPC_2019-08-03.15.28.23.1130.jpg
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Still doing this at 600 yards with a sling and diopters...



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mcfred

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@Huskydriver, Good Shooting! What's the round count, looks pretty high given it's a moderate pressure, medium sized cartridge and you've got that fire cracking. Does the chamber/throat appear to be concentric?
 

Huskydriver

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@Huskydriver, Good Shooting! What's the round count, looks pretty high given it's a moderate pressure, medium sized cartridge and you've got that fire cracking. Does the chamber/throat appear to be concentric?
No freaking clue the rifle is older than my grandma and imported I dunno how anyone would really know unless they rebarreled it.....it's a late model production would have to look up the year again but think it was a 1952. Yes on the chamber and the throat. Fired brass shows less than .001 run out when I measured it in the past.
 

zfk55sr

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This is a bit long-winded, but it does tell the story. This is one from my archives, if you've ever wondered why all of the Swiss rifles coming to us 35 to 100 years old all come in with sharp lands and grooves. This is why:............................ and if you think you will easily change a Swiss barrel, you have another thing coming.
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When a new (old) rifle comes to us, we inspect the bore with a Hawkeye Pro Borescope. We eventually do a slurry seal of the bore with hBN, but this is not about that. This is about barrel maintenance (for us) of Swiss rifles. Replacing the barrel on a k31 is difficult and the cost factor of a new barrel can end up near $1,000 by the time it gets to you. Removal of the original barrel is extremely difficult, and I know of one place in the US that does it. I heard recently that Larry passed away, so I'm out of the loop on whomever may be doing it now. The zfk55 barrel? Forget it. I'd be amazed if anyone could find one, and even if you could, the cost factor would earn you a Darning Egg tap to the base of your skull from Ma. (Or your own significant other)

We begin by stripping the chamber, throat and bore with Wipe Out. Its an ammonia free, water based bore cleaner that removes literally everything. Carbon, copper, any kind of fouling including Moly. We leave the Foam Type Wipe Out in the bore and throat for about two hours then dry swab everything. We do a follow-up inspection for any copper residue with a Hawekeye Borescope. A complete, 100% copper free bore is essential. For a very heavily coppered bore we place the rifle in a horizontal rest, plug the breech and flow the Wipeout foam into the muzzle. We place an absorbent rag on the floor (or bench) beneath the muzzle for the excess cleaner tht backs out of the bore. The foam expands quickly and a lot more in volume than you'd expect. We leave it overnight.
Very heavily carboned? Montana Extreme handles it quite handily.

Back and forth "scrubbing" is accomplished with the .30 caliber swabs attached to the cleaning rods, and always from the breech end. Follow up cleaning is done with cloth patches.

Placing the rifle butt down for the process is not a great idea. The foam will settle overnight and just work the breech end.... so........ What's the big deal about not using brushes? ANY brush will wear on the bore lands unnecessarily. Even nylon and of course the rod itelf will wear on the crown if it's not used correctly. "Nylon?? Wear on the bore?? Ha!" Yes, with excessive cleaning, any brush will wear on the lands. Every one of our barrels in the armoury, rifles, pistols and revievers receive the same, brushless barrel care.

Take a .30 caliber brass cleaning brush, attach it to the rod. Close your finger and thumb lightly around it and pull the brush through your fingers. Now, do the same with that "Snake". Feel the difference? The brass brush is very stiff, but do flex a bit. The brush part of the Snake? Those bristles are insanely stiff! Now, a dose of reality that may contradict everything I've just explained.

Some 18 or 20 years ago before we introduced our own version of the Clamp On Scope Mount, some of you might remember our very first mount. It was a Drill & Tap mount. We made them as a replacement mount for the old Santa Fe and Golden State Arms imports of the 1911 series they converted to .308 caliber sometime in the late 60's and early 70's. We made them with 5 holes to cover three different D&T patterns used by those companies. That got me to thinking about the K31, so we redesigned the double taper of the 1911 mount and made it to fit the k31........... Then...... we tried drilling the receiver. Ha! We nearly gave up, but with a carbide bit we were eventually successful, but that then posed a question. Exactly how hard are those receivers and barrels used in the Swiss rifles?

For that information, I went to an old friend. Frank Van Binnendijk. He knew a gent at the (now) RUAG facility and found that the steel used in that rifle was an incredible Rockwell hardness factor of RH48!!! That was the reason for the difficulty in drilling that k31 receiver. Ever wonder how an 85 year old rifle came to your with nearly pristine and very sharp lands even after all those years of service firing the GP11? There is your reason. No issue military rifle ever came close to that hardness, and even commercial rifle barrels were nowhere near that hardness factor. There are new (relatively) barell makers who produce barrels that hard today, but theyd're also specialty barrels that carry a "specialty" price tag, so............... why do we, here at SP, care for our barrels as we do?

Because we can, and so will my Great Grandchildren, caring for those same barrels we've had for all of these past years.
I thank you... Leslie thanks you. Leslie Salt Co. @1787
 

Ledzep

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W+F 06 came in :)

More recoil than I anticipated, it's about on par with the 9mm which makes sense. I had it in my mind that it'd be a really cute little thing. The trigger on this one is much lighter than my 1936 S/42 German luger. The sight radius and deeper V notch on the rear sight vs. the German luger also make it a bit easier to shoot. I think the Germans did a slightly better finish job, though (surface finish before bluing). Curious to see a DWM example for each military now, too.

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And in typical Swiss firearms fashion, a perfect bore. I bore scoped it and it looks more like a Bartlein than any other factory barrel I've ever scoped. Maybe zfk55 has some insight into their barrel making/rifling processes?
KIMG1524.JPG
 

zfk55sr

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LedZep, this is one of mine. Original issue with serialized holster, cleaning kit, spare magazines serialized, original manual in Swiss German and the original issue book showing the date it was issued to the officer and when he returned it back in. There are no import marks and this pistol is mint inside and out. The Hawkeye Pro borescope shows no wear whatsoever in the throat or the bore. Absolute mirror finish.
The caliber is 7.65x21, bottle nosed case.
Typically, the finish on a Swiss Luger is far superior to the German Luger all things being equal.
Beautiful pistol you have there, LedZep
 

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