Suicide up 38-58% in some states.

TripleBull

This one goes to 11
Feb 13, 2017
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#51
That is scary.

Iits taken into the plants, say cattle feed, it takes 10 pounds of feed to make 1 pound of beef so your getting the impact 10X.

A good reason to raise your own food and eat organically when possible.
As the science is catching up to the reality, it does paint a scary picture. The simple answers is to upgrade waste treatment but the infrastructure estimates globally sound like a global warming discussion. I'm planning to upgrade the drinking water purification (again) soon, but you are right about growing your own. I don't see an easy win lifestyle in current day America.
 
Feb 7, 2013
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The West
#54
Coming from someone who lost their wife six months ago to suicide, I can say with 100% confidence that some of you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
I am really sorry for your loss or anyone’s loss. Truely it is us left behind that often bare the weight.

The sad truth is often we focus our communal efforts on the wrong shit with our politicians chasing only the stuff they see a will get a rise of support from us and fill their narcissistic personality giving them more power and wealth.

Fucking shame on them that they are always chasing to disarm, rather that to empower and help promote the hard and need things.
Look at this statement from the article @Redmanss posted- it says a lot.

Nearly 45,000 suicides occurred in the United States in 2016 — more than twice the number of homicides — making it the 10th-leading cause of death. Among people ages 15 to 34, suicide is the second-leading cause of death.
 
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mijp5

Gunny Sergeant
May 7, 2009
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#55
Coming from someone who lost their wife six months ago to suicide, I can say with 100% confidence that some of you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
Oh my God that is just an awful thing to go through for you and her. I'm very sorry to hear that. I hope you are ok
 
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RNWRKNP

Sophisticated Redneck
Dec 13, 2017
1,342
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PHX, AZ
#56
Coming from someone who lost their wife six months ago to suicide, I can say with 100% confidence that some of you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
My heart felt condolences rogue. Won’t insult you by saying I understand because it would be a lie. Took me years to get past being angry and the only advice that I would share is to not push those who truly care about you away.
 
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snbyiggidy1

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 15, 2018
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Brownsville, Oregon
#58
Most likely only those like yourself Rogue who have lived through it will ever understand. It is a tragic event on families. I am sorry to hear you have had to live through this. One thing I have always observed in my work and my own family suicide, murder, or traumatic death all leave those that are left behind dealing with the trauma from he situation. Very difficult for all. I hope you find peace in your life.
 
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gregsjt

Sergeant
Oct 1, 2007
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Idaho
#61
The time line of that report 1999 - 2016, is also the same time period that has seen a huge increase in the amount of mass violence, school shootings, etc. Isn't it odd that the same time period also corresponds to the greatest rise in prescription drug use in the history of the world?

In the early 1980's parents started giving their 5 and 6 year old children Ritalin and Lithium. Low and behold, when those kids grow up mass violence and suicide rates start to rise? If you look at all the high profile suicides over the last few years (Chris Cornell, Robin Williams, Kate Spade, etc.) the person was usually on some sort of SSRI or similar drug, also true for almost all of the perpetrators of mass shootings in the last 20 years. Hell, it says right on the god damn bottle that the side affects could include suicidal or homicidal ideation. Yet no one ever talks about it.

The number one revenue source for most pharmaceutical companies are antidepressant / anti-anxiety medication, they also spend 2.5 billion a year on political contributions. The Pharmaceutical industry is the number 1 industry for political contributions in the US, they are also one of the biggest spenders on advertising, just watch a sporting event and count how many drug commercials are on. They have convinced us and our politicians that the magic pills they pedal are the keys to our happiness, even though in most studies they barely work better than a placebo.

By the way, look at studies about suicide from the past, suicide by firearm has almost always accounted for about half of the suicides. So even though the rate of suicide has increased over the last 20 years or so, the rate of suicide by firearm has remained relatively flat.
 
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snbyiggidy1

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 15, 2018
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Brownsville, Oregon
#63
Can’t help but mention the side effects of many of these medications. It amazes me when I listen to the drugs being pushed on tv that will fix your life but then hear all that they can cause. Very scary. Personally my wife and I are both very cautious when it comes to Meds. Take very few if any and choose to skip them if we can do without or fix stuff naturally. Just not a fan of the there is a pill for that generation.
 
Dec 20, 2017
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#64
I think we all, or at least I, seemed to forget the HUGE increase in returning vets' suicide rates. The timing is spot on for the report.
 
Aug 24, 2010
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#66
Which is a shame that we do not support our vets better.
Veterans have great support if they pursue it, it's just the wrong type most of the time. MDs and psychiatrists treat veteran mental conditions instead of counselors and psychologists. Throwing pills at symptoms with no psychotherapy does nothing for depression or PTSD, instead is just like giving pain meds for chronic back problems with no corrective surgery. Depression and other mental issues are something that can't be properly dealt with by your primary care doctor.

Part of the issue is veterans don't want to do the therapy, but they shouldn't be allowed to continue to get scripts without it. It's just a different form of pill shopping. Benzos can be every bit as bad as opioids.
 

Codiekfx400

Sergeant of the Hide
Jan 29, 2018
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#69
That is scary.

Iits taken into the plants, say cattle feed, it takes 10 pounds of feed to make 1 pound of beef so your getting the impact 10X.

A good reason to raise your own food and eat organically when possible.
American farmers produce the best and safest food in the world. No need to buy organic or worry about medicine getting 10x stronger after passing through a animal. There is not one documented case of genetically modified food making somebody sick or taking someone’s life.
 

mijp5

Gunny Sergeant
May 7, 2009
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#71
there is a fear of being labeled and having certain rights taken away.
I was on SSRis back in the late 90s and had my FAA 1st class medical certificate revoked. I had to get off the medication to get it back.

Btw, the whole conclusion of these types of drugs being the cause of lunacy is way too speculative. It is certainly a correlation, but a causation, I don't buy it. Occam's razor: People get prescribed these drugs, and they go bananas because of the SFX profile, or people with psych issues happen to be on these drugs, and mentally break down. I think if the drugs were indeed the cause, you would see a crazy amount of mass shootings
 

ArmyJerry

Staff Sergeant
Nov 22, 2012
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#72
It is complicated, bottom line I think depression is the underlying causation for 98% of the suicides, I think the ritalin pushers are responsible for 98% of school shootings.
 
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mijp5

Gunny Sergeant
May 7, 2009
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#74
We are seeing a crazy amount of mass shootings
We are seeing a crazy amount of HIGHLY PUBLICIZED mass shootings. And I would even challenge that. In a country of over 300M people, once every 3 months or so isn’t even close to a statistical significance. Compound that with the fact that the lifetime prevalence for a psychiatric diagnosis approaches 50% and most of these will be treated with a drug at some point. I don’t see a true causation
 
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Oct 1, 2007
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Idaho
#75
Try telling that to some poor parent that just buried there child because he / she went to school on the wrong day.

Pretending that it isn't a problem isn't doing any of us any favors and its not going to stop the people who blame it all on guns.
 

snbyiggidy1

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 15, 2018
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Brownsville, Oregon
#76
We are seeing a crazy amount of HIGHLY PUBLICIZED mass shootings. And I would even challenge that. In a country of over 300M people, once every 3 months or so isn’t even close to a statistical significance. Compound that with the fact that the lifetime prevalence for a psychiatric diagnosis approaches 50% and most of these will be treated with a drug at some point. I don’t see a true causation
I completely agree. Even with the numbers of shootings that are highly publicized the numbers of deaths still fall way behind other causes.

Try telling that to some poor parent that just buried there child because he / she went to school on the wrong day.

Pretending that it isn't a problem isn't doing any of us any favors and its not going to stop the people who blame it all on guns.
I am a parent as I am sure many others here are. However I laugh at the sending their kids to school on the wrong day statement. Sorry but the media is HIGHLY PUBLICIZING it and people are allowing their emotions to listen to the media. Every teen driver in this country takes more risk every day getting behind the wheel to drive to school. We as parents turn our kids loose to drive and don't give it a second thought while our child is more likely to die behind the wheel of that car than ever being shot at school. And parents or the media never say "that bad car killed a teen driver". The say what the truth is that the teen driver was at fault or the other driver for whatever the reason for their poor driving was. The bottom line is the liberal side of country wants to take guns away and they are using HIGHLY PUBLICIZED events to sway people in their direction. It is fear mongering at its best. No one said it was not a problem however I do say lets keep it in perspective.
 

Rthur

Philomath
Apr 16, 2010
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#77
Try telling that to some poor parent that just buried there child because he / she went to school on the wrong day.

Pretending that it isn't a problem isn't doing any of us any favors and its not going to stop the people who blame it all on guns.
You work for the media?....
The only thing we are pretending is other far more statistically relevant causes of death are being ignored in favor of "gun violence".
Some perspective:


R
 

mijp5

Gunny Sergeant
May 7, 2009
4,805
1,981
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#78
Try telling that to some poor parent that just buried there child because he / she went to school on the wrong day.

Pretending that it isn't a problem isn't doing any of us any favors and its not going to stop the people who blame it all on guns.
Like Ben Shapiro says, “facts don’t care about your feelings”, and it’s true. The truth can hurt. Someone who gets shot or is close to someone who gets shot does NOT automatically become an expert in epidemiology and firearms. This is a dirty tactic that’s been used by the scum progressives since at least the 80s with the Brady bill. Is passing sweeping legislation that destroys peoples’ rights and takes all their guns going to magically resurrect the dead? It’s nothing but a bullshit feeling of vindication that the media is selling to victims as something it’s not.
 
Likes: Yasherka
Aug 24, 2010
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Northeast Wyoming
#79
All too often, the mechanism of suicide is blamed instead of the condition itself. Guns get targeted and thrown in with the suicide stats over the number of shooting deaths to heighten the left's position on gun control, while ignoring all other means. It's a game to them, a game played in blood and misery of others, and they are all too happy to make the fallen their pawns.

The latest batches of laws being passed, most recently in New Jersey, seeks to enable law enforcement to remove firearms from someone who is believed to be suicidal or homicidal without following through with their due process and allowing them to speak in their defense before a judge, a blatant violation of all kinds of constitutional rights, all while doing absolutely NOTHING to protect the person or the community, whichever the case may be. Removing firearms from their household does extremely little, because as we all know if someone wants to commit evil or inflict harm upon themselves, they'll do it if given the slightest opportunity to do so.

What actually does something is getting the person into medical care where they are under watch and treatment. We have the mechanism to do this country wide, Florida's "Baker Act" style of removing a person from the community, placing them into the care of medical professionals to be evaluated and treated as may be necessary. As I've said before, my girlfriend is a counselor and she gets called out at least a few times a month to do exactly this type of evaluation. If they have suicidal or homicidal ideations at a level where they may act upon it, they're detained for the duration of their treatment until that state no longer exists. A lot of the time, that means they just need to sober up, get back on their meds, or get through their deep crisis with time to realize they were being irrational. Other times, it means a long stint in the state psychiatric hospital because they really need serious treatment. All of the time though, there's a process that is fair to both the person and the community, respecting both constitutional rights as these detentions require judicial review and ordering to be sustaining, but a temporary detention order (TDO) can happen on the spot after proper evaluation.

The bottom line here, is the whole "See something, say something" is still in full effect, but only goes so far. We will never remove suicide or homicide from our society, and most of us can probably cite at least once in our lives where someone killed themselves with zero indication they were going to do something like that, and no matter how many suicide awareness classes we attend there will be times where there really are no signs that were visible. When we do see something, we need to ask the hard questions of the person and ourselves, and make the right decision that more often than not it is better to throw up a red flag than it is to stay silent.
 

snbyiggidy1

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 15, 2018
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115
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Brownsville, Oregon
#80
You work for the media?....
The only thing we are pretending is other far more statistically relevant causes of death are being ignored in favor of "gun violence".
Some perspective:


R
Exactly the point I was making. It is bullshit tactics that the media uses. They only use interviews that are in alignment with their agenda. Funny how you don’t see tha non emotional parent who lost a child but can hold it together and blame the shooter and still be pro 2A.
 

mijp5

Gunny Sergeant
May 7, 2009
4,805
1,981
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#81
All too often, the mechanism of suicide is blamed instead of the condition itself. Guns get targeted and thrown in with the suicide stats over the number of shooting deaths to heighten the left's position on gun control, while ignoring all other means. It's a game to them, a game played in blood and misery of others, and they are all too happy to make the fallen their pawns.

The latest batches of laws being passed, most recently in New Jersey, seeks to enable law enforcement to remove firearms from someone who is believed to be suicidal or homicidal without following through with their due process and allowing them to speak in their defense before a judge, a blatant violation of all kinds of constitutional rights, all while doing absolutely NOTHING to protect the person or the community, whichever the case may be. Removing firearms from their household does extremely little, because as we all know if someone wants to commit evil or inflict harm upon themselves, they'll do it if given the slightest opportunity to do so.

What actually does something is getting the person into medical care where they are under watch and treatment. We have the mechanism to do this country wide, Florida's "Baker Act" style of removing a person from the community, placing them into the care of medical professionals to be evaluated and treated as may be necessary. As I've said before, my girlfriend is a counselor and she gets called out at least a few times a month to do exactly this type of evaluation. If they have suicidal or homicidal ideations at a level where they may act upon it, they're detained for the duration of their treatment until that state no longer exists. A lot of the time, that means they just need to sober up, get back on their meds, or get through their deep crisis with time to realize they were being irrational. Other times, it means a long stint in the state psychiatric hospital because they really need serious treatment. All of the time though, there's a process that is fair to both the person and the community, respecting both constitutional rights as these detentions require judicial review and ordering to be sustaining, but a temporary detention order (TDO) can happen on the spot after proper evaluation.

The bottom line here, is the whole "See something, say something" is still in full effect, but only goes so far. We will never remove suicide or homicide from our society, and most of us can probably cite at least once in our lives where someone killed themselves with zero indication they were going to do something like that, and no matter how many suicide awareness classes we attend there will be times where there really are no signs that were visible. When we do see something, we need to ask the hard questions of the person and ourselves, and make the right decision that more often than not it is better to throw up a red flag than it is to stay silent.
Honestly, if I were on the ledge and they took my shit, i’d much more likely to complete the act out of a feeling of hopelessness
 
Aug 24, 2010
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#82
Honestly, if I were on the ledge and they took my shit, i’d much more likely to complete the act out of a feeling of hopelessness
All the more reason to put the person into proper care versus a knee jerk yet half assed response to simply take their firearms.

Those laws are nothing more than an unconstitutional feel good measure that will have no effect on public safety. Fucking politics is all they are, and very bad politics at that. Every member of a legislature who votes for a blatantly unconstitutional law should be impeached and removed from public service for life. It's the dems v2.0 of their Jim Crow laws they passed in the first half of the 1900s, unconstitutional to their core, but SOP for the dem platform.
 
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snbyiggidy1

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 15, 2018
145
115
43
Brownsville, Oregon
#84
All too often, the mechanism of suicide is blamed instead of the condition itself. Guns get targeted and thrown in with the suicide stats over the number of shooting deaths to heighten the left's position on gun control, while ignoring all other means. It's a game to them, a game played in blood and misery of others, and they are all too happy to make the fallen their pawns.

The latest batches of laws being passed, most recently in New Jersey, seeks to enable law enforcement to remove firearms from someone who is believed to be suicidal or homicidal without following through with their due process and allowing them to speak in their defense before a judge, a blatant violation of all kinds of constitutional rights, all while doing absolutely NOTHING to protect the person or the community, whichever the case may be. Removing firearms from their household does extremely little, because as we all know if someone wants to commit evil or inflict harm upon themselves, they'll do it if given the slightest opportunity to do so.

What actually does something is getting the person into medical care where they are under watch and treatment. We have the mechanism to do this country wide, Florida's "Baker Act" style of removing a person from the community, placing them into the care of medical professionals to be evaluated and treated as may be necessary. As I've said before, my girlfriend is a counselor and she gets called out at least a few times a month to do exactly this type of evaluation. If they have suicidal or homicidal ideations at a level where they may act upon it, they're detained for the duration of their treatment until that state no longer exists. A lot of the time, that means they just need to sober up, get back on their meds, or get through their deep crisis with time to realize they were being irrational. Other times, it means a long stint in the state psychiatric hospital because they really need serious treatment. All of the time though, there's a process that is fair to both the person and the community, respecting both constitutional rights as these detentions require judicial review and ordering to be sustaining, but a temporary detention order (TDO) can happen on the spot after proper evaluation.

The bottom line here, is the whole "See something, say something" is still in full effect, but only goes so far. We will never remove suicide or homicide from our society, and most of us can probably cite at least once in our lives where someone killed themselves with zero indication they were going to do something like that, and no matter how many suicide awareness classes we attend there will be times where there really are no signs that were visible. When we do see something, we need to ask the hard questions of the person and ourselves, and make the right decision that more often than not it is better to throw up a red flag than it is to stay silent.
Well put and totally true. Working in EMS for almost twenty years I have seen plenty of all that you touched on. Won’t go into too much detail but I agree totally.
 
Oct 1, 2007
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#85
I don't work for the media, and I agree with everything above, my point is that its happening more often and every time it happens they have more ammo (bad pun) to use against guns. Blaming it on the media or saying it isn't that big of deal is the equivalent of sticking your head in the sand, the arguments need to be better.
 

Rthur

Philomath
Apr 16, 2010
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#86
I don't work for the media, and I agree with everything above, my point is that its happening more often and every time it happens they have more ammo (bad pun) to use against guns. Blaming it on the media or saying it isn't that big of deal is the equivalent of sticking your head in the sand, the arguments need to be better.
I don't agree with much of a increase of regularity.
I think the media covers It's favored topics with much more fervor than previously.
The PEW data contradict the narrative of increased "mass shootings" per 100k which are included in homicides.
This has to be taken into account as the population has increased by a huge amount by percentage.


50 million people in above time frame or about 25%.
I'd bet this doesn't include the Illegals in the census.

R
 
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supercorndogs

Ham Fisted Gorilla
Feb 17, 2014
2,869
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#87
American farmers produce the best and safest food in the world. No need to buy organic or worry about medicine getting 10x stronger after passing through a animal. There is not one documented case of genetically modified food making somebody sick or taking someone’s life.

Bullshit, bull shit bull shit bull shit bull shit. Ignorance is bliss though.
 
Oct 1, 2007
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#88
Dude, there are graphs and studies that say there have been 200 mass shootings since like 1990 and there were only 200 or so from 1900 to 1990. But that's not the point, the point is that this is a stupid fucking argument, it works fine in here because everyone is already pro gun, we know that the media blows these out of proportion but try telling that to someone that isn't pro gun, they'll say that one mass shooting is too many. There are other factors that are involved and we need to start talking about those or we're going to loose the fight.
 
Aug 24, 2010
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#89
Dude, there are graphs and studies that say there have been 200 mass shootings since like 1990 and there were only 200 or so from 1900 to 1990. But that's not the point, the point is that this is a stupid fucking argument, it works fine in here because everyone is already pro gun, we know that the media blows these out of proportion but try telling that to someone that isn't pro gun, they'll say that one mass shooting is too many. There are other factors that are involved and we need to start talking about those or we're going to loose the fight.
You turn it right back around and focus on the criminal(s), not the method. Nobody blames the car in a DUI death, they blame the drunk. Nobody blames the scalpel when a surgeon botches a surgery. I could go on all day.
 
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Oct 1, 2007
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Idaho
#90
Exactly, focus on the people and what causes them to do this, which is why I brought up the drug angle. In a DUI accident we talk about the alcohol, but nobody talks about psych drugs in suicides or mass shootings.
 

Rthur

Philomath
Apr 16, 2010
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#91
Dude, there are graphs and studies that say there have been 200 mass shootings since like 1990 and there were only 200 or so from 1900 to 1990. But that's not the point, the point is that this is a stupid fucking argument, it works fine in here because everyone is already pro gun, we know that the media blows these out of proportion but try telling that to someone that isn't pro gun, they'll say that one mass shooting is too many. There are other factors that are involved and we need to start talking about those or we're going to loose the fight.
From mother Jones I'm sure.
You are dancing around the fact that you can't reason with people that use emotion to decide what course of action we should deploy.
Might as well figure there are those you cannot reach.
Anyone that is open to facts and reason can be debated/persuaded.
While we are at it how many are talking about Chicago every fucking day and weekends are the highlights...
Dude....

R
 
Oct 1, 2007
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Idaho
#92
I'm not dancing around anything, I'm saying that we have to use better arguments. I'm an analyst, statistics can be manipulated to support any position you want. The people that we need to convince do use emotions to make decisions and telling them that "statistically speaking kids dying in a school doesn't mean anything" is stupid and doesn't do the pro gun side any favors.
 

Rthur

Philomath
Apr 16, 2010
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#93
I'm not dancing around anything, I'm saying that we have to use better arguments. I'm an analyst, statistics can be manipulated to support any position you want. The people that we need to convince do use emotions to make decisions and telling them that "statistically speaking kids dying in a school doesn't mean anything" is stupid and doesn't do the pro gun side any favors.
So far you've delivered strong rhetoric about whats wrong with "our arguments".
Give some tactics/reasoning you think will work on unreasonable people.

R
 
Oct 1, 2007
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#94
Read my first post in this thread, the common denominator between suicide and mass shootings is the massive rise in the use of prescription psych drugs but you'll never hear that brought up in the news or anywhere else for that matter. Name a mass shooter who wasn't using or coming off psych drugs? Tell me of a high profile suicide in the last 10 years that wasn't using psych meds?
 

Rthur

Philomath
Apr 16, 2010
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#95
Read my first post in this thread, the common denominator between suicide and mass shootings is the massive rise in the use of prescription psych drugs but you'll never hear that brought up in the news or anywhere else for that matter. Name a mass shooter who wasn't using or coming off psych drugs? Tell me of a high profile suicide in the last 10 years that wasn't using psych meds?
Big pharma is your target.
Good luck with that endeavor.

R
 
Aug 24, 2010
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#96
Exactly, focus on the people and what causes them to do this, which is why I brought up the drug angle. In a DUI accident we talk about the alcohol, but nobody talks about psych drugs in suicides or mass shootings.
Alcohol doesn't make you drink and drive, nor does psych drugs cause mass shootings. Pills can't pull a trigger, and bottles can't drive. The individual does it, and the make the decision to do it, and even if it's not a rational decision, it's still their decision and nobody else's. The rest are mitigating at times, but not primary, and we need to make sure we don't miss the forest for all the trees.

One of the biggest contributors to the increase of suicide is the internet and social media, the new culture of exclusion, shaming, one up man ship, keeping up with the Joneses, bullying, etc, have hit a whole new level never seen before, but nobody wants to take that seriously. But it's not the internet or Facebook that's doing the damage, it's the people on it.

We like to point fingers and assign blame, especially at inanimate objects or society at large, but it's still the individual that carries out the action.

People. It doesn't need to extend beyond that.
 
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supercorndogs

Ham Fisted Gorilla
Feb 17, 2014
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#98
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snbyiggidy1

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 15, 2018
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Brownsville, Oregon
#99
Alcohol doesn't make you drink and drive, nor does psych drugs cause mass shootings. Pills can't pull a trigger, and bottles can't drive. The individual does it, and the make the decision to do it, and even if it's not a rational decision, it's still their decision and nobody else's. The rest are mitigating at times, but not primary, and we need to make sure we don't miss the forest for all the trees.

One of the biggest contributors to the increase of suicide is the internet and social media, the new culture of exclusion, shaming, one up man ship, keeping up with the Joneses, bullying, etc, have hit a whole new level never seen before, but nobody wants to take that seriously. But it's not the internet or Facebook that's doing the damage, it's the people on it.

We like to point fingers and assign blame, especially at inanimate objects or society at large, but it's still the individual that carries out the action.

People. It doesn't need to extend beyond that.

Absolutely. PEOPLE, PEOPLE, PEOPLE. Blame the person not the object. Question is how do you get non rational people to understand a rational idea?
 

Rthur

Philomath
Apr 16, 2010
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https://worldnewsdailyreport.com/doctors-confirm-first-human-death-officially-caused-by-gmos/

Google is right at your finger tips. I wasn't calling you ignorant, there are just some things I have learned that I didn't want to know.
One incident in Spain doesn't a epidemic make.
Crossing fish with tomatoes seems like an unusual pairing.
The article states that it was allergens from the fish genetics.
So I would lean towards a shellfish style allergy more than GMO as culprit.

R