Subsonics - All Calibers

Jan 21, 2009
175
2
18
North Texas
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Insert Name Here</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300-221 (300 Whisper clone) Savage action, 16" Mcgowen 1:8 twist

8.0 gr Lil' Gun
208 A-Max
221 Fireball - or - Virgin LC 09 brass

1025 fps average
8 fps SD for 10 shots



.31" group at 100

Now I need to work up a load for 240 SMKs



</div></div>
That is awesome. wish I could spin a 208.
 
Jul 30, 2010
14
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0
60
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

tag for updates and a Q: how does bullet seating depth influence your accuracy ~ better to be a couple thousandths off the lands or seated deeper better, or any difference at all?
 
Jul 30, 2010
14
0
0
60
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

some success trying loading to OAL...

180gr Speer Soft Points/flat based bb's. 10.3 gr Trail Boss. one hold groups at 30 yards and will try at 100 yards this weekend and will report back. Also trying some 125 Speer TNT's and 135SMK's as well. using 7.5gr TB to push them at 1025fps testing them in the side yard today.

168 SMKs keyhole and tried loading them backwards and still keyholed.

Rem 700
Schneider 16-inch 1x10 twist
Amer Mfg Triple-X
Lapua brass
Fed mag primers
 
Aug 22, 2009
756
28
28
Ft.Worth, TX
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

308Win, 700 action, 1:10 Kreiger finished at 19"

Lapua Brass
CCI BR2 Primer
10.7gr Trail Boss
180gr Hornady Round Nose
2.650" OAL

I chronoed the load twice before I got my suppressor. It was right at 1055 over my chrono and 1075 over a buddies on a different day. I need to shoot it again and check with the can on now that I have it.

I got right at 1 3/4" 5 shot group at 100 yards and 3/4" 5 shot group at 50 yards with this combo. Good enough for what I am trying to do.
 

Grump

Gunny Sergeant
Oct 23, 2008
1,213
0
36
58
So. Utah
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

.308
Lake City Match brass
WLR primers
unknown 180-gr RNSP with cannelure
Seated about 2.7 OAL
22-inch barrel
9.0 grains Unique

1040.8 and 1014.6 fps. Chrono was not registering every shot. SD for 4 shots was 30.2 and ES was 71.2. No effort to position powder for every shot.

Shot a lot of rocks searching for the come-up, should have read those entries in this thread first. Have to re-shoot to see about accuracy.

At 55°F, they sound like .22s, pretty sure they were subsonic. No can.
 
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Sako TRG-22 .308 1-10TW 20" barrel.
190grn SMK with 10 grn of TB and 10.4 TB faired pretty good out of the tube. It was too windy to run the chrono (we had concerns that the wind would blow it over during shooting and possibly cause damage).
I didn't notice any keyholing with these loads and it sounded extremely quiet with my TBAC 30P-1 after we ran the test rounds first.

Saw some slight oblong impacts with 168grn SMK's so I avoided firing those with the suppressor on.
 
Apr 30, 2011
41
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Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

I shoot two bullets almost exclusively the 150gr Berrys 30-30 bullet because it is cheap and flies decent with 8.2gr TB, AND THE 200GR LAPUA B416 SUBSONIC with 9.8gr TB...

I have to say the 150gr 30-30 is cheap and fun.

The B416 was designed for one reason and I know it will perform when it comes down to it.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rookie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I missed it here, I apologize. I'm looking for a COAL for a 308 loaded with an inverted 175smk. </div></div>

2.300-2.435 depending charge weight*, an where your lands are.

* If your using Trail Boss,... I've found I can over pressure the case w/o breaking the SOS, by how far I seat a inverted bullet into the case. Using a 208 A-max when it first happened.

With a 175 seated normal at 2.800 and pushed via 10.8 grs of TB from a 12 twist, she was stacking them into a single 3/8" hole. Farther out they were a sight to be hold, tumbling to the target at 245yds, but even then it was a 5-6" group.
 

kombayotch

Gunny Sergeant
Sep 20, 2007
1,760
1
38
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

6mm Crusader
27" Bartlein 1-8" Twist
Sierra 100 gr. Spitzer flat base (touching the lands)
10.2 gr. Trailboss
Formed cases or virgin 6mm Rem. brass
210M Primer

Works nicely for blowing out the shoulder of the cases! Just stable in 80F weather at my altitude. Used the oil rub trick described on the previous page to get stable velocities.
 
Nov 14, 2010
33
0
0
52
Illinois, USA
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Very interesting topic I must say.
Loaded up some test loads using N2010 (Clays speed), IMR PB, Red Dot and W748. All seamed to be subsonic. Fired from my M1 7.62mm Tanker Garand's 18" 1:10" tube
The two most accurate were sub 2 MOA@ 100yds.

174gr. Moly LC M118 FMJ-BT
9gr. IMR PB
RP once fired 1.625" HS @ 2.010"
Wolf LP primers
2.80" OAL

174gr. Moly LC M118 FMJ-BT
8.3gr. Red Dot
FC once fired 1.625" HS @ 2.010"
Wolf LP primers
2.80" OAL


 
Sep 19, 2011
3
0
0
53
Michigan
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">204 Ruger</span></span>
1-12 twist I think
T/C Encore 26"barrel
26 grain Barnes Varmint Grenade
Win brass
7½ Rem primer
12.9 <span style="color: #3366FF">BLUEDOT</span>
3500 fps
shoots great killed yotes with this load
 
Sep 19, 2011
3
0
0
53
Michigan
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

<span style="font-size: 14pt">30-06 </span>
1903 springfield
22" 1-10 twist
170 lead flat nose
mix brass
Win large standard primer
12.0 <span style="color: #3366FF">Bluedot</span>
sorry do not remrmber velocity

Makes a nice slow soft shooter plinker my 10
year old shot lots of these and had a blast.
 
Sep 19, 2011
3
0
0
53
Michigan
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

<span style="font-size: 14pt">30-30</span>
TC encore
1-10 26" barrel
170 lead flat nose
Win standard large rifle primer
mix brass
9.0 <span style="color: #3366FF">Bluedot</span>
makes 30-30 into 30 carbine or slower.
great plinnker for kids
 

XM110

Sergeant
May 12, 2005
130
2
18
Hesperus, CO
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Alright, looking for loads for the 300blkout. ss and supers. I have a David Wells .30 cal can on a 16" 1:8 twist upper. I have lots of BT, lilgun. And 168 A max, 208 bthp, 200SMK's to prefect these bad boys. Main use is going to be coyote calling. In the mean time I'm going to try a few subs and check if they key hole and what kinda groups. Will post findings later tonight.

XM110

I prefer the TB for my 223(AR), 221fb(remy700), and 308(M1A) subs, so I'm gonna stick with that for today.

Any added advice so others including myself aren't reinventing the wheel would be great!

20111203 @ 13:00 Scratch the TB in 300blkout.....9gr seems to bulky for the lil short case. Resorting to lilgun for now.

20111203 @ 22:00 168gr SMK, 200gr SMK, 208 SMK, all loaded over 8.3gr of lilgun all(5rd) stabilized nicely and shot sub MOA. 168gr were one ragged hole. But none were SS(1150ish).

20111210 @ 14:00 230gr SMK over 8.3gr of lilgun stabilized and shot sub MOA but was SS.

20111210 @ 15:00 230gr SMK over 7.4gr of lilgun stabilized and shot 1 MOA and was SubSonic.
 

RangerWalker71

Suppressor Peddler
Jan 3, 2011
7,737
0
0
Arlington, TN.
gmail.com
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Originally posted by Denz:

Well after pulling a few searches of subsonic loads I found most had good results with TrailBoss. I took DavefromGA’s load of 9.3 and adjusted for it my rifle. A Gap SP .308 20”rock 1-11 with shadow can. Here’s what I loaded
Case: LC90
Powder: TrailBoss 9.6
Bullet: 180 RN Hornady
Primer: CCI 250
Loaded with Lee Deluxe Dies, Powder dropped using a lee perfect powder measure only weighed 1st and last round (50 total).
Here’s a pic of the target at 200yrds. I think it works…


Orginally posted by Rijndael:

I'm running a 20" Schneider 5P 1:11.

9.6 was definitely a sweet spot for me as well.

9.6 Trailboss
FGMM Brass
Sierra 180
210M Primer

A 4 shot group was sub minute.

Originally posted by MtMisfit:

FGMM Brass
180gr Speer RN
CCI 200
COAL 2.810

11.5gr Trail Boss is giving me 1056fps avg from my 20" 700VS.

9.6gr gives me 1140 with 150gr RN.

The 170gr FP are somewhere in between.

I tried 9.5gr as a starting load with the 180's and was in the low 800fps range.

glad I have a chrono.

Orginally posted by KS:

Denz, those are some damn fine groups at 200yds! I would be happy with those at 100yds. I must be doing something wrong.

This was my first attempt to loading subs for my AAC Cyclone. It was WAY quiet. I wanted to load to about 1050fps. I played w/ the charge to get there. I was encouraged w/ the 50yds groups but dissapointed at 100yds. I did NOT adjust the OAL trying to tighten the groups up. I checked the targets for keyholing at 5yds, 25yds, and 100yds. All were nice and round. After that I screwed the can on and went for it.

Sierra 170gr (30-30 rond nose, flat based bullet)
10.0gr TrailBoss
210M's
IMI brass
OAL 2.70"

10.0grs averaged 1069fps
11.0grs averaged 1106fps

It shot 1/2" at 50yds. Average 1069fps for 10rds.
100yd opened up to about 2".

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I have some Sierra 200mk's. Do you think they would be worth a try (with TrailBoss) or should I stick to the roundnose bullets?

BTW, TrailBoss is some STRANGE lookin' powder!

thanks,
Keith

Here is what I am shooting them in.

KMW built:
308 Win.
Surgeon action
Krieger barrel, 24", 1-10" twist
Badger Ordnance bottom metal
Shilen trigger
McMillan A5, adj cheek Piece, 33% each of OD green, black, and tan, flush cups
Badger Ordnance rings
US Optics SN-3, T-Pal, EREK, green illuminated Type 1 reticle
AAC Cyclone can
Ops Inc. brake

Originally posted by Mike Reynolds:

This is my first post here, I have spent some time just reading. I do not have any experience with trail boss, I have been using Unique for a few years now. I have never had any signs of pressure problems and my loads have been very accurate out to 200 yds. It is very important to weigh each charge, I have tried just using a thrown charge but velocity was all over the place. Load specs below:

LC brass
Magnum primers
190 gr SMK
9 gr Unique

I do not do any thing special for case prep and I was getting around 1060 fps out of my 26 inch, 1-10 twist barrel. I just started using the Lapua 200 gr subsonic bullets with good accuracy results.

Originally posted by REM700MAN:

this is second hand info, so try at your own risk

.308
10.5 gr of trailboss
180 gr sierra

i was looking for the same thing and i think that is what someone posted that they use

good luck

Originally posted by JasonK:

Here's some info from another site, this guy is very into the low power loads.

HERE'S THE BLUE DOT POST.....READ ON

Now to address this topic...on 223 gopher loads...with Blue Dot..
This info ought to keep you busy, but you need to load one at a time if you are loading the slower velocity loads, so that you do not double charge your load...all of these loads have proven safe in my 223s,

Blue Dot Range Report: 223 Caliber ( Full )

Bullet Weights Tested:
1. 35 grain Hornady V Max
2. 40 grain Hornady Vmax
3. 45 grain Sierra SP
4. 50 grain Sierra SMP
5. 52 grain Sierra Boat Tail Match
6. 55 grain Winchester FMJ

Rifle Used: Ruger 77 Mk 2, VT 26 inch Barrel, Stainless Steel First yr Model

Case: Lake City Surplus, previously fired

Primer: Remington 6 ½

Powder: Blue Dot

Charge Weight Tested: 4 grains to 14 grains.


Weather: Sunny, NO clouds, 80 degrees, NO wind,

Altitude: 2000 ft

Humidity: Very Low


Field Results:


35 grain Hornady V Max:

4 grs: 1284 fps
5 grs: 1488 fps
6 grs: 1862 fps
7 grs: 2163 fps
8 grs: 2392 fps

9 grs: 2636 fps
10 grs: 2722 fps
11 grs: 3076 fps
12 grs: 3205 fps
13 grs: NO Reading
14 grs: 3518 fps

15 grs: NO Reading, Too hot, Extractor Marks, Scrapped Case
16 grs: NO Reading, Too Hot Blew Primer


Hornady 40 grain Vmax:

4 grs: 1161 fps
5 grs: 1538 fps
6 grs: 1798 fps
7 grs: 2148 fps

8 grs: 2243 fps
9 grs: 2539 fps
10 grs: 2771 fps
11 grs: 2956 fps

12 grs: 3013 fps
13 grs: 3218 fps
14 grs: 3375 fps


Sierra 45 grain SP

4 grs: 1239 fps
5 grs: 1447 fps
6 grs: 1688 fps
7 grs: 1880 fps

8 grs: 2118 fps
9 grs: 2363 fps
10 grs: 2553 fps
11 grs: 2811 fps

12 grs: 2875 fps
13 grs: 3008 fps
14 grs: 3164 fps


Sierra 50 grains SMP

4 grs: 1064 fps
5 grs: 1345 fps
6 grs: 1624 fps
7 grs: 1788 fps

8 grs: 2033 fps
9 grs: 2257 fps
10 grs: 2466 fps
11 grs: 2655 fps
12 grs: 2779 fps

13 grs: 2882 fps
14 grs: 3038 fps


Sierra 52 grain Boattail Hollow Point Match

4 grs: 1061 fps
5grs: 1460 fps
6 grs: 1632 fps
7 grs: 1916 fps

8 grs: 2142 fps
9 grs: 2225 fps
10 gr: NO Reading
11 grs: 2673 fps

12 grs: 2782 fps
13 grs: 2879 fps
14 grs: 3012 fps


Winchester 55 grain FMJ

4 grs: 896 fps
5 grs: 1264 fps
6 grs: 1568 fps
7 grs: 1825 fps
8 grs: 1994 fps

9 grs: 2201 fps
10 grs: 2328 fps
11 grs: 2453 fps

12 grs: 2677 fps
13 grs: 2821 fps
14 grs: 2915 fps





Notes:

1. IN the evaluation of the 223, I came further to the conclusion of the versatility of the 223 in the use of training new shooters, and for a very versatile varmint caliber.
2. Essentially the 223 can be loaded to the specs of a 22 Long rifle, a 218 Bee, a 221 Fireball, a 222 Remington, a 22 Hornet, and a 22 Win Mag., while allowing the shooter to be able to pick the type of bullet that he prefers.
3. Bullets were limited to use of 35 grains to 55 grains. Heavier bullets will not serve any purpose unless a 223 is to be used for deer hunting. I do not believe that their would be a significant difference in the use of a 55 grain bullet vs a 60 grain bullet.
4. The recoil on the lighter loads using 4 to 6 grains of powder had minimal recoil if any at all. These would be ideal for young shooters being trained.
5. Noise level on the lighter loads ( 4 to 6 grains) were on par with a rim fire. An increase in noise level was very noticeable above 7 grains, but still very acceptable. ( No sounding like a rim fire any more)

Noted Observations:

1. It was noted but not considered part of the testing, with a tree used as a back stop for some of the testing, that all bullets ( 45 to 55 grains)penetrated thru the tree at a distance of 20 yds.
2. The diameter of the tree was measured at 5 inches.
3. The 40 grain Vmax loads failed to penetrate the tree at loads above 10 grs, above 2771 fps. However at 10 grains and less, the bullets penetrated thru the tree and did a large amount of damage ( like turning the wood into tooth picks) on the exit side of the tree. The penetration stopped at the 5 grain load.


Some of the Author’s Conclusions:

1. I learned some significant items beyond the versatility of the 223 with the bullets tested, but focusing on its use in the field, got some ideas.
2. A light rifle such as a Winchester Featherweight or Rugers Compact model with a 16.5 inch barrel or the Ultra Light with a 20 inch barrel would make a good combo with the use of Blue Dot.
3. Since the powder is burned cleanly in the first 10 to 12 inches of barrel, the shorter barrels are not handicappiing velocity in the lighter shorter rifles.
4. The penetration of the 40 grain Vmax into the tree did make me ponder the use of those plastic tip varmint rounds as potential loads for small deer for youth shooters. Just like my observations in the larger calibers, the plastic tipped bullet seem to do a lot more damage, at velocities under 2700 fps. The Vmax surprised me. This is a decision any shooter will have to test on his own and make their own decisions. I am just passing on that I saw potential merit in the application.
5. Although one has to weigh out the potential of Plastic Tipped Varmint bullets on bigger game like deer and antelope, some of these loads in real life use, utilizing Barnes’s X bullets in 22 caliber I can recommend. They make a 45 grain, 50 grain and 53 grain bullet. The way I saw much better penetration and more damage in wood, at the lower range velocities, 2200 to 2700 fps, this would make a good deer load in many parts of the USA, and recoil is minimal.


I did not test any bigger bullets as I feel that those tested would be represent the best potential with the powder. 60, 63, 64, 65 grain bullets and then the larger match bullets did not give what I considered useful velocity when I have shot them before with Blue Dot, in respect to their field design uses.


My personal most often used Blue Dot/223 loads are...

14.5 grains with a 40, to 46 grain bullet

14 grains with a 50 grain bullet ( Speer TNT highly recommended)

13.5 grains with a 55 grain bullet.. ( don't use SPSX Hornady's in a rifle with a one in 9 twist as this may vaporize it coming out the barrel, the SPSX is too fragile for one in 9 twists, except at pretty low velocities..

It takes a lot to overheat your barrel, it reduces recoil substantially ( it won't cycle ARs!).. it will also greatly reduce vibration down synthetic stocks, which medical studies are indictating a cause of hearing loss in high volume shooters....


Tag for later
 
May 5, 2006
102
0
0
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kombayotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">Update:</span> While this load performed well in the summer, the bullets are now tumbling in the air with the arrival of colder weather ( <= freezing)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RUM Lover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">308 Loads
10" Shillen 1/8 --pistol
240 SMK
15.7 IMR SR 4759
Win cases and WLRM primers
1" group at 100
1060 fps
very consistent, not temp or position sensitive
</div></div>

I experimented with this powder in my 22" 1-10" twist Broughton. It worked extremely well with bullets 208 gr. or heavier. No first round drop, good case fill and groups were an inch or less even though the holes were oval. With a faster twist barrel, this would be a great combination. </div></div>

The load above was developed during the winter in Ohio and and commonly shot well below freezing with no tumbling issues out of that little barrel. It is still performing well in all temps, commonly printing groups in the 1.25-1.75" range at 100y. In fact, when the temps drop to near 0, I use a slightly lighter load at 15.4 grains to keep it below the sound barrier in the more dense air. 4 deer have fallen from that round in temps ranging from -4 to 60 degrees and distances from 30 to 136 yards.

Your results may vary but don't assume your results are universally correct.
 
May 5, 2006
102
0
0
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

300 Blackout 16" Noveske factory upper

AA1680 @ 10.4 grains gets you to 1020fps with a Sierra 240. When matched with a factory RRA carbine lower using a H buffer, it cycles fine. OAL 2.010"

AA1680 @ 10.0 grains gets you 1020 fps with a Hornady 225 Match. I had to change out the RRA spring to a DPMS spring and use a standard buffer to get it to cycle reliably. In talking to Noveskes' smiths, they are noticing that RRA springs are stiffer than DPMS and Colt and can cause cycling issues. OAL 2.10"

I've tried N110, Lil Gun, H110, SR4759, and Blue Dot with various charges and none have cycled. N110 came close, but when I finally got enough powder in it to cycle, it was coming across the chrony at 1180-1200 fps--defeating the purpose.

The top load took a nice 8 point this year at 117 yards. He ran a whole 15 yards
 

RangerWalker71

Suppressor Peddler
Jan 3, 2011
7,737
0
0
Arlington, TN.
gmail.com
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RUM Lover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300 Blackout 16" Noveske factory upper

AA1680 @ 10.4 grains gets you to 1020fps with a Sierra 240. When matched with a factory RRA carbine lower using a H buffer, it cycles fine. OAL 2.010"

AA1680 @ 10.0 grains gets you 1020 fps with a Hornady 225 Match. I had to change out the RRA spring to a DPMS spring and use a standard buffer to get it to cycle reliably. In talking to Noveskes' smiths, they are noticing that RRA springs are stiffer than DPMS and Colt and can cause cycling issues. OAL 2.10"

I've tried N110, Lil Gun, H110, SR4759, and Blue Dot with various charges and none have cycled. N110 came close, but when I finally got enough powder in it to cycle, it was coming across the chrony at 1180-1200 fps--defeating the purpose.

The top load took a nice 8 point this year at 117 yards. He ran a whole 15 yards
</div></div>


TAG for data
 

Rover31

Jedi Master
Oct 27, 2007
401
38
28
Mos Eisley
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have long believed that the 7.62x39 was the ideal case to build a subsonic upon.

Now, the current issue (March, 2008) of G&A has an article on Extreme Shock brand ammo, and on P52 there is a photo of their 7.62x39 200gr SW RN load specifically crafted for suppressed rifles. The caption describes it as both accurate and hard hitting.

Greg </div></div>

yep built one a while back on a savage platform. Took a 308 barrel rechambered to 7.62x39. Loaded 180g RN vey impressive very accurate very fun!
T
 
Mar 6, 2012
7
0
0
52
Norman, OK
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Here is something I have been working with...

Have now shot over 300 rds to find this!

300 Blackout

16" Novesky Carbine length gas system with YH 7.62 Phantom.
Shooting...
Hornady #30732 208g A-max
A5744 powder
CCI 450 magnum primers
cut & sized hornady .223 brass
C.O.L. 2.230
medium crimp

Using 9.4g WILL CYCLE CLEANLY, LOCK BC back with empty mag, & SUBSONIC!


Not sure the velocity or pressure but the primers are staying seated and are not flattening.
On inspection after 50 rds I found only 5-10 unburnt powder specks in the lower.
 
Aug 16, 2007
185
0
0
47
Pennsylvania
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Rem. 700 AAC 20" 1/10 TW.
Hornady 150 gr. Interlock RN #3035
9.8 gr trailboss
lapua brass
CCI BR2 primers

Hornady 220 gr. Interlock RN #3090
14.2 gr. Trailboss
Lapua brass
CCI BR2 primers

Both loads grouping at 1" at 100yd.
No chrono.
 

karb

Private
Apr 6, 2009
87
0
0
47
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kombayotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.308 Win. 26" bbl 1/11 twist, GAP Palma chamber.

Hornady 180 RN
Lapua brass
CCI BR2
10.2gr. Trailboss
2.650" COAL
1030fps @ 80*F

Hornady 180 RN
Lapua brass
CCI BR2
8.0gr. Titegroup
2.650" COAL
1040fps @ 80*F

Accuracy and velocity ES/SD numbers were about the same for both loads. However, I didn't do any position sensitivity testing.

Update: I have found that if you rub a generous amount of oil on each bullet, in addition to running the patch of oil before the first shot, you don't get the first round velocity drop AND the velocity stays extremely constant. However, average velocity does increase about 20fps or so. </div></div>



This is an old post, but in my realm of trials. I have some tight group on hand and wondered if you've had any bad experiences since 2008 with it? Trailboss certainly
Has loose groups for me. Seems like I keyhole when grains are added 10.5+, but nice holes with tons of drop when 10.4- ... That's got to be a burn rate issue.
 

BK7saum

Sergeant
Oct 17, 2010
314
1
16
Southern OK
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

I've been using American select with 110 grain hollow points. 4.4 grains gives me velocities in the upper 900s. Since green dot is slightly slower that load plus a couple of tenths more should be in the ballpark.

My rifle is a custom 700 16 inch whisper.
 
Feb 21, 2006
139
3
0
76
Dallas, Georgia
Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

I just got off the phone with a Sierra Bullets Technician, and the subject of reduced velocity loads of Blue Dot came up I told him, and sent him a link, about this thread.
He told me that the new Blue Dot formulation is different, and reduced loads can result in detonation and excessive pressures.

Be careful.....
 

tmpohuski7

Gunny Sergeant
Feb 8, 2008
1,483
0
36
41
MD & WV
I have a bunch of 200 gr SMK' s and want to load subs for 26" 1:11.25 Rock 308. Is this bullet to heavy for this twist? I have 210M's and FGMM once fired but no powder yet. Any suggestions? Should I just sell the bullets and get lighter ones?
 
Dec 27, 2010
0
0
0
35
TrailBoss Powder & Lee Dipper size Question ???
It seems the general concensus is 180gr.RN,210mag. , FGMM Brass & between 9.6 & 11.4 gr. Trailboss for .308 subs. taking the average >10gr.+ < ? anyone know what size dipper would equate to approx 10gr.to 10.8 ??? The Lee Dipper crossreference dosen't have TrailBoss Powder listed.
Thanks !
I would be very cautious trusting the lee dipper cross reference. I measured and weighed with some of the dippers and the weighed values were far off from the published values. This was about two or three years ago, so I can't remember how far off they were, otherwise I would say. Just take the smaller dippers and try them out. Take about ten readings or so, and that way you will get an average.
 

ZombieMonkey

Can I get a liter of cola
May 2, 2013
1,125
1
38
Gilbert, AZ
My experiment into the subsonic loads for .308 yielded a really consistent round that is just plain fun to shoot.

-200gr SMK
-10.5gr IMR Trail Boss
-Federal primer
-Seated to 2.815
-Avg velocity ~1042, groups less than MOA, often right around 3/4 and has been stable out to 200 from a Remington 700 AAC-SD (1/10" -twist).

I don't bother opening the flash hole up as I know some swear you need for consistency. That has yet to be my experience with them, though YMMV.
 
Last edited:
Oct 14, 2009
588
0
16
49
Tennessee
300BLK:

converted WIN NT brass
11.5gr AA1680
208AMAX or 220SMK (pretty much interchangeable)
Fed 205M
COAL 2.255-2.26
Lee factory crimp
1100-ish fps in AAC brand 16" AR15 barrel - subsonic
AAC 762SDN-6 suppressor attached
Accuracy ~1MOA at 100 yards, ~2MOA @ 200 yards (with Nikon 300BLK 2x-7x scope)

You can see almost the entire bullet flight to 200 yards through the scope. They really drop in at the end - you can REALLY see the vertical.
 
Oct 14, 2009
588
0
16
49
Tennessee
300BLK:

converted WIN NT brass
11.5gr AA1680
208AMAX or 220SMK (pretty much interchangeable)
Fed 205M
COAL 2.255-2.26
Lee factory crimp
1100-ish fps in AAC brand 16" AR15 barrel - subsonic
AAC 762SDN-6 suppressor attached
Accuracy ~1MOA at 100 yards, ~2MOA @ 200 yards (with Nikon 300BLK 2x-7x scope)

You can see almost the entire bullet flight to 200 yards through the scope. They really drop in at the end - you can REALLY see the vertical.
I've refined this load somewhat. 11.5gr AA1680 with 208 AMAX is a little too hot and some go supersonic.

For 220SMK and Hornady 208 HPBT it's 11.5gr AA1680. For 208 AMAX it's 11.2gr AA1680. Apparently the bearing surface on the AMAX is a little shorter - or something - because they fly faster. Everything else is the same. Velocities for all loads with my 16" AAC AR-15 barrel and 762SDN-6 are 1000-1050fps. Accuracy is excellent with all <1MOA at 100 yards and maybe a little more than 1MOA at 200 yards but I'm only using a 2-7x scope so I might be able to shoot tighter groups at 200 with a higher power scope.
 

mijp5

Gunny Sergeant
May 7, 2009
3,905
964
113
I see guys posting 150 RN over 9+ grains of trail boss going subsonic. I just loaded 7.9 grains and I am still supersonic. This is out of a 20" barrel, 1:12. Frustrated as all hell
 

mijp5

Gunny Sergeant
May 7, 2009
3,905
964
113
Just pulled all the rounds and poured out 0.8 grains. 7.1 grains of trailboss under hornady 150 rn gets me subsonic at 27 degrees F.
 
Feb 14, 2014
8
0
0
Annapolis
Just tested my 300AAC pistol build with Sierra 220gr SMK subs over A1680. 10.5" 1:8 twist, ST-T3 buffer, unsuppressed.

[TABLE="class: MsoNormalTable, width: 240"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"]
dnm
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
12.0
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 128, colspan: 2"] Locked Bolt[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"]
1077
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
12.0
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
1073
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"]
1069
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
12.0
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
8
[/TD]
[TD="width: 128, colspan: 2"] Locked Bolt[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"]
998
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
11.5
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
1017
[/TD]
[TD="width: 128, colspan: 2"] Locked Bolt[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"]
1032
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
11.5
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
34
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"]
1023
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
11.5
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 128, colspan: 2"] Locked Bolt[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"]
970
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
11.3
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
985
[/TD]
[TD="width: 128, colspan: 2"] Locked Bolt[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"]
976
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
11.3
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
40
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"]
1010
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
11.3
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 128, colspan: 2"] Locked Bolt[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"]
918
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
11.0
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
943
[/TD]
[TD="width: 128, colspan: 2"] Locked Bolt[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"]
938
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
11.0
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
55
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"]
973
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]
11.0
[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"][/TD]
[TD="width: 128, colspan: 2"] Locked Bolt[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I basically ran a string of 3 of each load, first a single load, tested for bolt lockback, then loaded two rounds, ensured proper feeding and again, bolt lockback on the 3rd round. All loads functioned flawlessly, even cut one loose without ears, didn't seem supersonic that way either. 55F outside air temp.

Did not measure the first round of the first string (12.0), so the velocities are only the second two round average. Did not allow much time between shots on each string, couple min break between strings to reset everything...
 

softcock

novice judgmental prick
Mar 24, 2006
807
94
28
Oregon
300BLK:

converted WIN NT brass
11.5gr AA1680
208AMAX or 220SMK (pretty much interchangeable)
Fed 205M
COAL 2.255-2.26
this ---> Lee factory crimp
1100-ish fps in AAC brand 16" AR15 barrel - subsonic
AAC 762SDN-6 suppressor attached
Accuracy ~1MOA at 100 yards, ~2MOA @ 200 yards (with Nikon 300BLK 2x-7x scope)

You can see almost the entire bullet flight to 200 yards through the scope. They really drop in at the end - you can REALLY see the vertical.
-
Crimp is important for making the group average size shrink on the subsonic vel .
I like Really Like the Lee Factory 'Collet' Crimp . for the .30 BLK/whisper
.
 
Apr 29, 2008
25
0
1
Tried Trail Boss with 338lm (ar-30) shooting Hornady 250gr HPBT with WLRM. Started with 20.0 grains (1225 fps) and stopped at 15.7 grains (890 fps). 20.0 to 18.0 were supersonic but still quiet (sonic crack). 17.5 to 15.7 were subsonic. None key-holed, and groups ranged from .3 to 3 inches at 100 yards. These were only 3 shot groups just to ball park. I will try 5 shot groups around 16.0 and 19.0 which gave the best results (.5 to .3).
 
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