So, what about Leupold Mark 5 ?

beetroot

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I'm considering the Razor because I like the ebr2-c and it would give me commonality between my RPR with the 4.5-27 and my LMT. In the other 2 I'm looking at the Tremor3. Looks interesting and has me intrigued. Not that I need it or use illum a ton but the fact the Razor has it and the other 2 don't (with the Tremor) is another point.
If you like the reticle and are happy with the weight probably be best to stick with the Razor.
Whilst it's not particularly hard to learn a new reticle, if you are happy with what you've got you may as well stick with it.

The main reasons I'd go for a MK5 would be the lower weight and I think it looks better (physically better proportioned IMO), but I don't love any of the reticle options.
 

LAW-DOG

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If you like the reticle and are happy with the weight probably be best to stick with the Razor.
Whilst it's not particularly hard to learn a new reticle, if you are happy with what you've got you may as well stick with it.

The main reasons I'd go for a MK5 would be the lower weight and I think it looks better (physically better proportioned IMO), but I don't love any of the reticle options.
Leupold needs to check out kahles & vortex reticles, those are my favorite, Ebr-2c & skmr3
 

LAW-DOG

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I also use my uncles h59 on a us optics 25x & pst2 ebr-2c, & leupold cch reminds me of h59 but less busy. It’s not hard to switch reticles but yeah having 1 reticle could be an advantage in making things easier
 

long range sponge

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Just a quick search and I'm not sure about what I read. The article made it seem like its essentially a BDC type reticle with a 250fps velocity range. It also said the scopes come with different calibrated elevation turrets for different 308 loads/projectiles.
 

mpl2353

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Yes
Just a quick search and I'm not sure about what I read. The article made it seem like its essentially a BDC type reticle with a 250fps velocity range. It also said the scopes come with different calibrated elevation turrets for different 308 loads/projectiles.
It uses distance in yards and wind in mph instead of conventional MIL and MOA. There are various versions all based on BC and velocity of various projectiles and calibers. Not only 308. They are surprisingly accurate and the wind dots take into account the gyroscopic characteristics of the bullet as it’s effected by the wind. Very fast in practice. Also several videos on YouTube of it in practice.

http://www.davidtubb.com/index.php?route=account/download/free&download_id=30

 

jbell

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The windage turret is an abomination. The mark for what setting it's on is at some kind of 45 or 60 degree rotation up the curvature of the dial, making it impossible (for me at least) to have any idea what setting its on. I zero it by leveling out the logo on the side, then I just hold for wind using the reticle. Utter junk IMHO.

as would a proper windage turret marking system. .
The windage turret is set up the way it is so when behind the gun you can see the setting by simply looking over the top of the scope, for a right handed shooter that is...
 

mpl2353

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I wonder how accurate it is between sea level & higher elevations
In the first link in my previous post it goes into the correction. It’s a very easy and quick formula to give you the corrected added or subtracted effective distance. It’s all in there.
 

jinxx4ever

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You might want to call both numbers because it shows in stock on my ipad
it list the mk5, but no pics and no prices. shows prices on other brand scopes. Says prices good thru midnite, but no prices listed. i'll call mile high tomorrow and see what they got
 

LAW-DOG

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it list the mk5, but no pics and no prices. shows prices on other brand scopes. Says prices good thru midnite, but no prices listed. i'll call mile high tomorrow and see what they got
Call 406-827-6543 store number or 406-544-3829 cell number. He said he’s answering for 2 more hours
 

ashington

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I haven't read this entire thread, but I thought I share my thoughts on my 5-25 in case it helps anyone.

I bought the 5-25 non-illuminated with the Tremor3 reticle. This was a leap of faith for me, as I didn't know if I'd like the reticle and I've always thrown shade on Leupold for overpriced products with mismatched turret/reticle offerings, but two seconds after looking through it at Mile High and comparing it to some others I decided it was worth a shot.

The scope feels light for its size. It's quite long with the sunshade. The flip-up caps are very cheap and thin but seem to be working just fine.

The elevation turret is amazing. Some hate the 10.5 mils/rev but I don't mind as I've got it on a 6mm Creedmoor and would rarely need a 2nd revolution let alone a third. Compared to my Steiner T5xi, Burris XTR II, Vortex PST II or Razor HD gen II, the zeroing process is stupid simple. Love it. Clicks are solid without being stiff and tracking has been spot on.

The windage turret is an abomination. The mark for what setting it's on is at some kind of 45 or 60 degree rotation up the curvature of the dial, making it impossible (for me at least) to have any idea what setting its on. I zero it by leveling out the logo on the side, then I just hold for wind using the reticle. Utter junk IMHO.

Being a 35mm tube, it's got tons of elevation adjustment. I have something like 29 mils of usable adjustment with my zero. Nice! Way more than I need for a 6mm.

The glass in my copy is fantastic. It easily matches my K525i, S&B PMII. Almost unnoticeable CA and it's bright and sharp all the way to 25. This is stellar glass for the price.

The Tremor3 reticle ... I guess I have mixed feelings. I love the floating dot, and after learning the wind holds I've found them to be worthwhile in competition settings. But, it's all a bit busy. I have to really concentrate to keep track of which mark is my aiming point and tune out the rest of the reticle noise. I tend to dial elevation more than using the full reticle functionality, but I'm confident in the reticle if and when I choose to hold for both elevation and windage.

Overall, I'd give this model a 75% rating and I'd recommend it for anyone who holds for wind. A simpler reticle would improve the score, as would a proper windage turret marking system. The glass, elevation travel, and elevation turret make this a really solid scope for the money, as long as you can rationalize away the flaws.

For anyone wanting an illuminated reticle, I think they charge an obscene amount and I'd probably not recommend this scope if that's a major criteria for you.
This is the most accurate summary of the experience I've had thus far with mine. I understand the idea behind the weird windage hash marks but the execution could have been much better and I find myself second guessing my adjustments. I think I'm going to pop the windage cap gasket off and find a way to extend the reference line all the way to the marks on the dial.
 

dgheriani

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This is the most accurate summary of the experience I've had thus far with mine. I understand the idea behind the weird windage hash marks but the execution could have been much better and I find myself second guessing my adjustments. I think I'm going to pop the windage cap gasket off and find a way to extend the reference line all the way to the marks on the dial.
I just used a silver sharpie and made a reference line on the threads that the cap screws onto.
 

LAW-DOG

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Yes the windage is strange but I never dial wind, the 35mm tube is odd but spuhr makes a mount for it & I mainly use spuhr, they should have more reticle options, for the $$ this will be a tough scope to beat & if the glass is as good as a kahles 525 or pmII & I got mine at half the price of those 2 almost so it’s hard for me to rate this scope lower than 9/10
 

LAW-DOG

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I haven’t had the mk5 side by side with my pmII yet but my first impression was the eye box is a little tighter & image quality was close but not quite to my pmII 5-25x but I need to have them together & spend a lot more time in different conditions to see how they really compare
 
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opeagle

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While I agree the windage reference point is different, just from looking at I cannot say it’s trash.

When you pick you head up to look at your elevation turrent, you can see the windage without rolling your head over quite as far. Different no doubt, but to each their own.
 
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jbell

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I haven’t had the mk5 side by side with my pmII yet but my first impression was the eye box is a little tighter & image quality was close but not quite to my pmII 5-25x but I need to have them together & spend a lot more time in different conditions to see how they really compare
I am interested to hear your thoughts after you have a bit more time behind both, IMO the MK5 5-25 has a great eye box . I think it is very easy to get behind.
 
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LAW-DOG

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I am interested to hear your thoughts after you have a bit more time behind both, IMO the MK5 5-25 has a great eye box . I think it is very easy to get behind.
I didn’t mean it’s not a good good eye box just vs my pmII which has a great eye box, the most comfortable I’ve been behind so far, but that was just my first impression, after I have them to compare more closely that could change
 
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Slevin182

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Very happy with my MK5 5-25 with a Tremor 3. Only other high end scope I've used is a Mark 6 3-18 w/ an illuminated TMR. Haven't used the Tremor 3 windage holdovers a lot yet but just elevation holdovers are easier than the TMR. Have it mounted in ARC rings and am pleased thus far.
 

LAW-DOG

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Got my scope today but still no mount, fedex smartpost is the worst. I ordered the mount 3 days before the scope & it says it won’t get here for 5 more days. Yesterday it was about 2.5 hours south of me & today it is 2 hours north & the funny thing is it made it half way across the country in 2 days, no more smartpost for me. These are the best leupold turrets yet by far, only wish the elevation felt like the windage, which is firmer & more precise feeling. It would be nice if the turret lock didn’t stick out so far too. This is going to be a good scope for the money
 

LAW-DOG

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I’ve been comparing mk5 to my pmii & I’m have been very impressed. It’s close but not quite as good but the price difference makes up for that. The pmii just does everything thing a little bit better but not a big difference. The pmii color is really good slightly more saturated & a little warm in tone where the mk5 seems very neutral. They are both bright & clear edge to edge. Ca is handled very well but I’ve only had it 3 weeks now & will take more time & different conditions to check that. So far it tracks accurately after 300 rounds of 308, I want to see how it does after 1000+. The mk5 eye box is good but pmii has a very good eye box & is a little easier to get behind. This mk5 25x is impressive it’s bright, good color, turrets, tracks, easy to get behind, & parallax is easy to work. The things I don’t like are the reticle options, these grid reticles are busy & distracting, the 35mm tube when most are 34 or 30, I don’t like the zero lock button, & the price for illumination bumps the price too high imo when you can get a lot of other scopes like razor amg/hd, pmii is p4f is $2600 & 15% off sale price at optics planet brings it down to $2200 which is hard to beat. I got my mk5 on sale with no illumination well under $2000 so I am very impressed so far
 

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LAW-DOG

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I hope they add the msr2 to mk5 line up then I could have leupold & pmii with a good reticle for dialing. I dial elevation & hold wind. My uncle has the h59 25x us Optics & I have the cch & I like them both the same but prefer less busy msr & the new vortex Christmas tree with floating dot
 

5RWill

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I don't think Leupold realizes how much a decent reticle would increase the sales of that optic. The price point they've already achieved for the quality. It's probably the best glass per dollar you can get if we're being frank. I know the Cronus and DMR II pro come to mind but the MK5 is legitimately Gen II razor quality for a chunk less if not better because it doesn't lose any at the high end. I mean the moment they field a TMR reticle with a tree and center dot that optic is going to vastly outnumber it's competitors in my safe. Least regarding the 5-25 it is almost impossible to beat for the price.
 
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LAW-DOG

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I don't think Leupold realizes how much a decent reticle would increase the sales of that optic. The price point they've already achieved for the quality. It's probably the best glass per dollar you can get if we're being frank. I know the Cronus and DMR II pro come to mind but the MK5 is legitimately Gen II razor quality for a chunk less if not better because it doesn't lose any at the high end. I mean the moment they field a TMR reticle with a tree and center dot that optic is going to vastly outnumber it's competitors in my safe. Least regarding the 5-25 it is almost impossible to beat for the price.
I was thinking the same thing a tmr with a clean tree, like the new vortex
 

slick19

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I dont know, I have both the 3.6-18 and the 5-25 now. In both I have an H59 reticle. If I didnt already have the H59 in my 3.6-18, or if I could trade it out too, I would have gone with a CCH for both. That said I am a huge fan of Christmas Tree reticles. I learned how to shoot tactically with an H59, and have been a fan ever since. I have found though, that there are a few issues- which is why i actually prefer the CCH. That said, I think the TMR is another fantastic reticle. My personal opinion is that if you want a christmas tree- get something like the H59, Tremor, CCH or EBR-2C. If you want less clutter, get something TMR-ish. To me, the EBR-7 and similar reticles are confused. Theyre not great with hold-overs thanks to so much open space, but theyre also more cluttered than non-tree reticles. I know that when I started, I did not dial anything. I always used hold-overs. Maybe that is why I feel so strongly about this. I have only recently begun dialing for many shots, and even now I usually dial for about .5mils less than what my DOPE calls for. I've had too many issues where I'll range a target, dial, then the round will go over the target, leaving me no way to hold under bc of the lack of stadia lines over the crosshair (which is why I prefer the CCH, along with a couple other things). BUT basically, I know that for me, it is faster to use a combo of dialing and holding, and for that, an H59 -esque reticle will always be best ( I think).

NOW ALL OF THAT SAID
another reason I like the CCH is that there is more open space and less clutter (1/4 stadia lines vs 1/5) And do have a soft spot for the TMR. But I would not like a TMR on my match rifle (PRS/Sniper)
 

stello1001

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I dont know, I have both the 3.6-18 and the 5-25 now. In both I have an H59 reticle. If I didnt already have the H59 in my 3.6-18, or if I could trade it out too, I would have gone with a CCH for both. That said I am a huge fan of Christmas Tree reticles. I learned how to shoot tactically with an H59, and have been a fan ever since. I have found though, that there are a few issues- which is why i actually prefer the CCH. That said, I think the TMR is another fantastic reticle. My personal opinion is that if you want a christmas tree- get something like the H59, Tremor, CCH or EBR-2C. If you want less clutter, get something TMR-ish. To me, the EBR-7 and similar reticles are confused. Theyre not great with hold-overs thanks to so much open space, but theyre also more cluttered than non-tree reticles. I know that when I started, I did not dial anything. I always used hold-overs. Maybe that is why I feel so strongly about this. I have only recently begun dialing for many shots, and even now I usually dial for about .5mils less than what my DOPE calls for. I've had too many issues where I'll range a target, dial, then the round will go over the target, leaving me no way to hold under bc of the lack of stadia lines over the crosshair (which is why I prefer the CCH, along with a couple other things). BUT basically, I know that for me, it is faster to use a combo of dialing and holding, and for that, an H59 -esque reticle will always be best ( I think).

NOW ALL OF THAT SAID
another reason I like the CCH is that there is more open space and less clutter (1/4 stadia lines vs 1/5) And do have a soft spot for the TMR. But I would not like a TMR on my match rifle (PRS/Sniper)
With you having both models, can you say the glass is better on over the other? I know when these scopes first came out, people were favoring the 5-25 model because it didn't show as much CA and I'm not sure but they're may have been a few other things people noticed on the 3.6-18 to be worse on. What's your view?
 

beetroot

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I have been shooting and learning the CCH the last few months, honestly it is pretty friggin good. Just have an open mind and give it a chance, it is not as bad as I was expecting.
What's it like on the lowest magnification?
I'd like a CCH Mark 5 for my long range hunting rifle, but the lack of illumination makes me worry the reticle would be a bit hopeless at either 3.6x or 5x magnification.
 

jbell

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What's it like on the lowest magnification?
I'd like a CCH Mark 5 for my long range hunting rifle, but the lack of illumination makes me worry the reticle would be a bit hopeless at either 3.6x or 5x magnification.
It really depends on how far you will be taking the shot, the lighting conditions and the animal / back ground. If your only using it close like 100 yards and in then yes, maybe. But IMO there are better options out there than the FFP CCH when under around 8X.
 

jbell

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With you having both models, can you say the glass is better on over the other? I know when these scopes first came out, people were favoring the 5-25 model because it didn't show as much CA and I'm not sure but they're may have been a few other things people noticed on the 3.6-18 to be worse on. What's your view?
I have both as well, the 3-18 is an excellent scope! However it isn't as good as the 5-25 optically, it shows a very little CA at times. But not as bad as some scopes I have owned. That is my only real complaint about the 3-18 & to me it is so minor I don't care.
 

slick19

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With you having both models, can you say the glass is better on over the other? I know when these scopes first came out, people were favoring the 5-25 model because it didn't show as much CA and I'm not sure but they're may have been a few other things people noticed on the 3.6-18 to be worse on. What's your view?

I agree with the post above this, the 3-18 is a fantastic scope, but the 5-25 is still much much better. The glass, brightness, and clarity of the 5-25 are fantastic to me, and I see very little CA on the 5-25 (although to be fair I also see very little on the 3-18, albeit a little more). I belive much of this is due to the more acute angles in the "Ultra-short" design of the 3-18 compared to the 5-25 as well as the larger objective. Beside that, the elevation turret on the 5-25 has much nicer clicks than the 3-18, although neither one is bad by any means. I would say that the 3-18 is a great scope, but the 5-25 is a better scope.