Scored a K11...

Sooter76

Private
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Sep 14, 2012
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Savannah, GA
#1
Finally took possession of a Swiss K11 I ordered from Empire Arms in December... Really nice condition overall with strong rifling and a 'match grade' trigger. The bluing has faded quite a bit but looks to be more the byproduct of overzealous cleaning than anything else. The stock is in very good condition with a few expected dings and scratches. I've now reached my goal of having one example of all 3 Swiss major Swiss straight pull rifles. Once the weather breaks I'm looking forward to seeing how she shoots.
A couple side questions tho...

1) Of all my Swiss rifles my K31 has the worst trigger. It's not bad, but it is significantly heavier than my G1911 or K11 which hover around 2.5lbs. I haven't had a lot of experience behind different K31's or G1911/K11 rifles besides my own. For those that have, have you found this to be normal?

2) I'm not entirely sure I want to but if I was to try and reblue my K11 how would I go about it for the most accurate refinish?
 
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eicas

Sergeant
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Feb 1, 2012
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#3
I just picked up a G11 from Simpsons last week. Had the luxury of going in and lookiking at what they had to offer. The choice ended up being a nice 1916-era that has honest 90% metal and 85%+ wood. The bore is unbelievable for a 100yr old gun that has a refirb stamp of 1933. Even had the tag under the stock.

My oh-pin-yun would be to leave it be. Regardless of bluing, I’m sure it’s got a lot of character. Pick up where the last gent left off and treat it like it never missed a beat. I find it amazing the condition of these guns. Automatenfett may not be a miracle gun preservative, but how they used it, and how the guns were stored certainly were. I have Mausers and Enfields that are younger and and in half the honest condition. My plan is a good heavy clean with a detail strip, an alchahol scrub to remove the shellac (it’s shellac over walnut) and some coats of linseed oil and turpentine.

After seemingly bumping into 7.5x55 everywhere (before I had the rifle) the stark reality of $35/box PPU sank in fast. I bought a few boxes to run thru it this weekend, and already ordered dies and brass, and R17. Luckily, a supply of 175smk and 165gr Remingtion PSPCLs are already on the shelf from loading .308.

Toss a pic up, and I’ll do the same after I smack some steel with mine this afternoon.
 
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AIAW

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Aug 16, 2001
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#6
Awesome. Amazing pieces of history. The "fluttering" brass ejection from these rifles alone is worth in investment. Got to walk a bit to pick up your brass!
 

eicas

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#9
Meh. Groups were nothing spectacular. As per the Diopter thread, about 2 3/4” at 100yds using the v-notch rear, a sitting rest, 56yr old eyes and Herter’s ammo. I’m sure It could do better with some handloads, but using that rear sight is a young man’s game. Diopters or peeps are in order. Lederhosen shall be optional.
 

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zfk55sr

Private
Minuteman
#13
Meh. Groups were nothing spectacular. As per the Diopter thread, about 2 3/4” at 100yds using the v-notch rear, a sitting rest, 56yr old eyes and Herter’s ammo. I’m sure It could do better with some handloads, but using that rear sight is a young man’s game. Diopters or peeps are in order. Lederhosen shall be optional.
The Swiss Rifles are, in order of proven accuracy........
The 96/11 #1
The G11 #1a
The k31 #2
The K11 #3
 
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eicas

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#14
Yea...day job getting in the way of fun for the next week or so...

Detail stripped, cleaned, stock has several coats of the linseed/turp/vinegar/beeswax mix on it now. Final coats and reassembly when I return. Brass, dies, and other loading goodies enroute. Rifle was surprisingly clean throughout. Still need to call you folks to discuss the diopter. That’s all new stuff to me...
 

zfk55sr

Private
Minuteman
#17
Got it, and...... D'oH! I wasn't paying attention. There were no Beech 1911's ever made, but...........
For those who want to refurbish: Note that I didn't say "Refinish"

Beech Stocks.





The original is Shellac. Use alcohol to remove the old Shellac
Do not immerse the stock or get the interior wood overly wet.
Rub Scrub stock hard and quickly with warm soapy water and a scrub brush.
Rub dry immediately with a Terry towel and let stand overnight.
Use the directional steamer to raise the dents..



Apply new coats of clear Shellac. Some Shellacs have a yellow or red tinge. That's ok.

Walnut Stocks





Do not immerse the stock or get the interior wood overly wet.
Rub Scrub stock hard and quickly with warm soapy and a scrub brush.
Rub dry with a Terry towel and let stand overnight.
Use the directional steamer to raise the dents.

A) Use 000 Copper Wool to smooth the surfaces.
Hand rub with raw linseed oil until you have a warm smooth finish.
This may take a number of coats.

B) Sanding is less preferable unless you're going for a new rifle appearance.
Sand smooth but use a wood block taking care not to round any of the
edges or the finger grooves. Do not overly sand the Cartouche.
Rub vigorously with a rough Terry towel.
Apply a coat of Tung Oil with a soft cloth and let dry. Lightly rub down
with 000 Copper Wool. Repeat this process 6 to 10 times until you have
a deep, warm glow to the wood. If you want a glossier finish, don't Copper
Wool the last coat. I prefer the satin look, so I do use it on the final coat.

__________________
Latigo and P
An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'.
 

sandwarrior

Gunny Sergeant
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Apr 21, 2007
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#18
Got it, and...... D'oH! I wasn't paying attention. There were no Beech 1911's ever made, but...........
For those who want to refurbish: Note that I didn't say "Refinish"

Beech Stocks.





The original is Shellac. Use alcohol to remove the old Shellac
Do not immerse the stock or get the interior wood overly wet.
Rub Scrub stock hard and quickly with warm soapy water and a scrub brush.
Rub dry immediately with a Terry towel and let stand overnight.
Use the directional steamer to raise the dents..



Apply new coats of clear Shellac. Some Shellacs have a yellow or red tinge. That's ok.

Walnut Stocks





Do not immerse the stock or get the interior wood overly wet.
Rub Scrub stock hard and quickly with warm soapy and a scrub brush.
Rub dry with a Terry towel and let stand overnight.
Use the directional steamer to raise the dents.

A) Use 000 Copper Wool to smooth the surfaces.
Hand rub with raw linseed oil until you have a warm smooth finish.
This may take a number of coats.

B) Sanding is less preferable unless you're going for a new rifle appearance.
Sand smooth but use a wood block taking care not to round any of the
edges or the finger grooves. Do not overly sand the Cartouche.
Rub vigorously with a rough Terry towel.
Apply a coat of Tung Oil with a soft cloth and let dry. Lightly rub down
with 000 Copper Wool. Repeat this process 6 to 10 times until you have
a deep, warm glow to the wood. If you want a glossier finish, don't Copper
Wool the last coat. I prefer the satin look, so I do use it on the final coat.

__________________
Latigo and P
An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'.
I love the way those are all saddled up and ready to roll.
 
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zfk55sr

Private
Minuteman
#19
Refinish, Refurbish, Swiss or American?
Here's some logical reality. Refurbishing has gone on in CH long after the armory in Bern stopped doing it. It's gents like the Swiss professional in this photo that keeps that train rolling.​






So, what makes this Swiss gent more qualified to do a refurbish or restoration than a American Stock Making professional? Simple geography? No. If the Ami stock maker is well versed in Swiss stocks.........Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

It took me 7 very long years with multiple submissions to get the Swiss to accept the fact that an Ami machine shop could produce Swiss rifle accessories of a quality equal to any Swiss shop. The SSV agreed. Our sales in CH have long since proven this since 1998 when I started SP. We have a great distributor there, and our acceptance by Swiss rifle shooters has proven itself over and over by sales volume, so............. Why does it have to be a refurbish by a Swiss gunsmith? It doesn't.

A refurbish is probably more acceptable than a refinish, however...... Swiss gunsmiths also do complete refinishing more often than refurbishing. You'll not find an Ami more loyal to the Swiss rifles than I am, but the reality is that Swiss or Ami, the quality can be achieved by either. The true dyed in the wool collector won't do anything whatsoever to these rifles, but those are not that common here in the US. Great to have one of each in original condition for a collector. Do you fit into that category? Either way, untouched or complete refinish............ they shoot the same and are held in reverence for exactly that. Shooting great despite the age.

P
 

eicas

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Feb 1, 2012
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#20
No sanding fo me. The dents got there for a reason. Mine did have a shellac overcoat on it as it came off with denatured alcohol. The surface was smooth enough for my tastes and immediately got the linseed treatment after drying.
 
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eicas

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#23
Lol. Gethardt liked to live on the edge!

Not sure on the finish. There was definately a layer of shellac on it as it dissolved with the alcohol. It was on there for a while too, not a recent application by the looks of how it came off. I’d send pics, but it’s on my bench about 2100nm from where I sit right now... Maybe Rosvita was the local shellac supplier...???

From the looks during disassembly, it had been quite a while since the action was seperated from the stock. No matter. I shall treat it with respect!
 
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sandwarrior

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Apr 21, 2007
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#24
I happen to know that rifle. It was owned by Gerhardt Beutelspacher and he dinged it up himself dragging it hurriedly through the first floor window
of his girlfriend, Rosvita Geisel when her husband unexpectedly showed up.
You have a rifle at your girlfriends...and she has a husband????? Geez, and I thought I struggled through second grade? This is a DUMB one.