Savage rifles...worth it?

LJT88

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Jul 16, 2019
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I am looking to get into the precision long range shooting arena and looking for a rifle. I would be trying to be budget minded in this initial set up. I think my limit would be $1500 for a rifle.

Generally what Ive been reading and seeing is people recommending Tikkas, Howa 1500, Bergara HMR. Seems like Remington is going down the toilet and it seems people mosly recommend staying away due to bad QC unless your willing to get some work down to it. Does that seem about right?

Im leaning towards a Tikka T3x as my top choice but open to other options for the right deal. I found a Savage 12 LRP barreled action for sale locally for a good price and I could drop that into say a KRG chassis and it would seem like you would have a solid rig. However Ive tried looking around on here for opinions and information on savage rifles and can not really find anything. Are they good shooters?
 
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HumpHammrr

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I picked up a 110 Tactical in 6.5 CM, dropped it into the MDT Oryx stock, set an Anthon 6X24 on top and don't regret any part. There's also a Model 10PC in .223 and a Model 10 in .308 in the locker that are boreingly accurate.
 
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Poorboyr

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The Remington mil spec 5r aren’t bad rifles. They are not too expensive either.
 

fvalmostthere

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I went the savage route and while my setup has worked fine so far, after reading more I would probably go a different direction. It was recommended to me to go savage by an f class guy and if that is what you want to do Savage’s are great. I have read that people have had feeding issues when it comes to more prs style shooting, I haven’t had any problems yet though. I bought a savage 12fv and put it in a mpa chassis. Took me a while to find a savage inlet chassis everything aftermarket is for Remington. You could probably get cheaper used stuff on here if you went Remington or clone. Another great value that I would look into are the howa barreled actions at brownells for like 450 and then a krg bravo for 450. Not a bad startup for 900.
 

jpcowboy

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i started last year with a savage 12 lrp 6.5 creedmoor and now have a curtis axiom, but still practice with the savage and i hate to admit it but the savage is still the more accurate rifle. they are fine to start with
 

Spblademaker

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Try getting inlets for lefty savages. 😂. Thankfully MDT has a nice chassis. Been happy with it so far. All other bolt guns are Rem 700s. Shoots pretty good for lower cost stock barrel. Can’t wait to burn it out and slap on a Proof. For the total cost, i could have just got the APO SH Rifle. But I already had the barreled action.
 

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TxWelder35

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I really like my Savage 12 LRP. No complaints, plenty accurate. Sub 1/2 moa @100
 

AznTactical

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I have a Savage FCP-SR 6.5 creedmoor in a MDT HS3 chassis with Magpul AR10 PRS stock (Approx $1200) that is currently outshooting my Tikka T3X TAC A1 6.5 creedmoor which costed me $1800.

Savage with hand loaded Hornady ELD-M's I am seeing .5 moa groupings or better (.75 moa with the oem Accustock).
Tikka with hand loaded Hornady ELD-M's my best grouping is .75" moa only. The Tikka's velocity is also 100fps or slower too.
 

azred33

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I have a savage 14 with a Choate stock and re-barrel to 6.5 cm. Low cost setup but it will shoot long range as well as any of my other setups. Nice thing with a Savage is easy barrel swaps. Good low cost, accurate rifle. You did not say if you were going to compete or just shoot steel. If you are going to just shoot steel, take a look at the Ruger Precision line, they shoot great and are a bargain for the results you get, just add a magpul prs stock for stability.
 

LJT88

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You did not say if you were going to compete or just shoot steel.
I wont be competing, at least not any time shoot. This rifle would be used to shooting steel mostly and would also double as a possibly hunting rifle.

What is the difference between all the savage actions? 10, 110, 12, Axis. My father in law gave me an axis 243 that my wife learned to hunt with. A pretty cheap set up but honestly shoots ok. What if I tore that thing down and put a good barrel on it and trigger then found a stock/chassis to put it in. Would it be a waist to spend a bunch of money on an Axis?
 

goosed

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All of the options your considering are fine starting points. It's more about finding what fits your desires than one is always the best.

Not to muddy the water too much... another option not mentioned so far right around your budget is to go full on custom.

Big Horn origin - 825
Criterion barrel - 300
KRG Bravo chassis - 350
Triggertech primary - 150
 

goosed

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I wont be competing, at least not any time shoot. This rifle would be used to shooting steel mostly and would also double as a possibly hunting rifle.

What is the difference between all the savage actions? 10, 110, 12, Axis. My father in law gave me an axis 243 that my wife learned to hunt with. A pretty cheap set up but honestly shoots ok. What if I tore that thing down and put a good barrel on it and trigger then found a stock/chassis to put it in. Would it be a waist to spend a bunch of money on an Axis?
10 - short action / small shank barrel (easiest/cheapest aftermarket support)
110 - long action / small shank barrel
12 - short action / large shank (with some exceptions/models that are small shank)
Axis - not much aftermarket support
 

LJT88

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All of the options your considering are fine starting points. It's more about finding what fits your desires than one is always the best.

Not to muddy the water too much... another option not mentioned so far right around your budget is to go full on custom.

Big Horn origin - 825
Criterion barrel - 300
KRG Bravo chassis - 350
Triggertech primary - 150

Ive been looking into that more and more he last few days and really like that idea. The only thing is finding someone to do that work.....
 

goosed

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Ive been looking into that more and more he last few days and really like that idea. The only thing is finding someone to do that work.....
If you're at all mechanically inclined you can do it all yourself. Not nearly as scary as it first appears.

If not interested in doing it yourself. Long Rifles Inc. (LRI) turns things around very quickly for reasonable prices.
 
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Jackomason

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Ive been looking into that more and more he last few days and really like that idea. The only thing is finding someone to do that work.....
It's super easy, if you go all out on tools you can spend a bit extra but there's a cheap solution for most of it. I went with an origin and used a savage barrel I had laying around. I was really disappointed with the savage barrel but I cant say I expected a whole lot. I'll be ordering a barrel in the next week or so.
 

Long Range 338

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Savage is not the best choice for a prs comp Rifle. If you are just shooting without time restrictions/for fun they shoot fine

ETA: lots of great choices and none of them are wrong either
 

HogsLife

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Ive been looking into that more and more he last few days and really like that idea. The only thing is finding someone to do that work.....
The Bighorn Origin does Pre-Fit barrels. I went through Altus to get mine. All you need is an action wrench and the headspace gauges for your caliber. Super easy. Plus with the floating bolt head you can run everything from .223 up to a short mag. Pretty hard to beat

Edit: back to the OP, I would do a Rem 700 Milspec 5R or PSS before I would do a Savage.
 
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spife7980

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10 - short action / small shank barrel (easiest/cheapest aftermarket support)
110 - long action / small shank barrel
12 - short action / large shank (with some exceptions/models that are small shank)
Axis - not much aftermarket support
That’s how it used to be for a period of time. They have since done away with that, they have 110 223s now.
 

goosed

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That’s how it used to be for a period of time. They have since done away with that, they have 110 223s now.
Valid point. Though it's not only recently, but going way back through the present day Savage has played fast and loose with their own naming conventions. There are actually quite a few goofy models if you look hard enough.

Though I maintain it's generally still easiest for new shooters to give them the general rules.
 
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Greg Langelius *

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I can say unequivocally that they have been worth it for me.

Starting with my first 10FP .260 (which became the Snipers' Hide Ghost Dancer .260, one of four), which I shot in National F Open Class beginning in 2002, and for several more years in NRA affiliated Club 1000yd F Open with a 2003 upgrade to an L-W 28" barrel, it still shoots remarkably well to this day. Scope is a Mueller 8-32x44 Target Dot with side focus/parallax.

I have had several others, and still retain the original Ghost Dancer, as well as a pair of significantly upgraded 11FV's, one a .308 F T/R, and another, a .223 F T/R, both identical except for chamberings and chambering appropriate Bushnell AR Drop Zone BDC scopes. This last one (the 223) is the rifle I shot in my last formal Competition, the 600yd MR F T/R stages in the 2017 Berger SW LR Nationals, at Ben Avery Range near Tucson, AZ.

I also own, and treasure, a relatively uncommon 10FCM Scout chambered in 7.62x39. Its .308 bore allows handloads with decent bullets, and it thrives on HDY 110gr V-Max handloads. The Scout mount is gone, and the rifle bears a Tasco 2.5-10x42 Varmint/Target Scope, conventionally mounted.

Add a MKII .22lr bolt action repeating sporter rifle, and that's the current extent of my Savage holdings.

Savage has a reputation for above average O/O box accuracy. We get the occasional report of a lemon, but for the most part I'll take a Savage over a Remmy most times. Not as refined as many customs; but that's not what they are designed to be. They are designed as an affordable, reliable, accurate rifle, and for me, that's exactly what mine have been. YMMV.

Savage Arms has been sold within the past couple of weeks, as part of a broad divestiture of firearms holdings by (and with the help of) its parent group, Vista Outdoors, to a syndicate made up of its own management figures. IMHO, this is a positive turn in Savage's lifeline.

Savage is in the late stages of a complete product line revamp and the changes, by their look, are also quite positive.

The 12LRP is what I would choose as the basis for a good shooting LR Rifle. Before plunking down the moolah for a chassis; try the rifle out with the existing stock and some decent commercial match ammo. It may be quite good enough without the extra expenditure for the chassis. My experience tells me that that Savage rifle stocks may or may not have ideal ergonomics, but that the rifles also still shoot better than my own meager skills can fault.

The original stocks work quite well enough for a limited number of shots; it's the replacement stocks and mods that make the long strings of fire associated with competition less stressful and more easily completed.

Stocks can be modified both effectively and economically. Effective stocks can be upgrades for a decent cost. And they can have additional tweaks. My pair of 11VF's each have these stocks and the listed mods, including three 3/4" Spacers each. The whole concept can also be had as a package, but I like my own approach better; it accommodates my own 6 1/2' frame very well. The cost savings inherent in the Savage rifle and my chosen mods have allowed me to have a pair of these rifles.

Savage's new line of stocks can make a lot of these adaptations unnecessary. No matter what the origin, I think the best ones provide a shoulder position where the bore axis passes through, and not above, the shoulder. They still won't accommodate my significantly outside of the envelope 16 1/2" LOP; but for the most part, they work well with much of the targeted market.

Greg
 
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Vodoun daVinci

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I started with Savage after having shot a bunch of guns belonging to friends and family. I became interested in taking up precision shooting knowing I'd never enter competition and not likely worry about resale. I located a Savage 10 FCP SR in 6.5 CM and ordered it, got a cheap Vortex Crossfire II 6-24X50 scope scope and started shooting. As soon as I got my scope zeroe'd I could count on .75 MOA accuracy with factory ammo. I ungraded to an MDT chassis and XLR Extreme butt stock and closed it up to consistent .6 MOA groups.

Added a brake and shot a few hundred rounds.....started hand loading this season and I'm now getting .5 MOA performance but have not settled on a "standard" loading/round. I really like my Savage and with it all tricked and slicked all my shooting buddies shoot as well (better) with my setup than they do with their high dollar rigs. My nephew is a Marine trained sharpshooter and he despises my cheapie scope (upgraded this season to an Athlon Argos BTR 10-40X56) but still shoots my gun better than he does his own.

Athlon2.jpg

The answer is what one wants or where they are going - Savages generally are despised in the precision rifle game and I have heard all sorts of reasons why from extractor failure to wonky cycling but mine is silky smooth with about 800 rounds down range and has never missed a lick. Others hate the trigger but mine is a clear clean break like glass and I love it. If one is gonna compete and move up and buy and sell then he'll want to avoid Savage as they have little resale in the precision community.

If one wants an entry level gun that kicks ass and is sub MOA accurate right-out-da-box that can be tricked and slicked to uber accuracy and is not gonna play the precision rifle masturbation game of "you have to spend thousands to get performance" then get a Savage and get to the range. I'm happy with mine and when it's barrel is shot out I'll re-barrel it and go again.

I'm a Savage Whore but I'm not a competitor nor classically trained. I love tools that work and this is one.

VooDoo
 
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Jabot

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Get a Howa or tikka or a Remy don't get a savage I got a model12fv it shot good but aftermarket parts suck to find not as bad as they used to be and no resale value nobody wants one and I set mine up to run in a mag and had all kinds of feeding problems
 

Steel head

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I started with a model 11 in 260.
I learned a lot shooting that rifle.
Wore out a barrel and got halfway through another with it.

I’m tempted to put it together with a 223 or 224 Valkyrie barrel.
 

BadAccountant

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I am looking to get into the precision long range shooting arena and looking for a rifle. I would be trying to be budget minded in this initial set up. I think my limit would be $1500 for a rifle.

Generally what Ive been reading and seeing is people recommending Tikkas, Howa 1500, Bergara HMR. Seems like Remington is going down the toilet and it seems people mosly recommend staying away due to bad QC unless your willing to get some work down to it. Does that seem about right?

Im leaning towards a Tikka T3x as my top choice but open to other options for the right deal. I found a Savage 12 LRP barreled action for sale locally for a good price and I could drop that into say a KRG chassis and it would seem like you would have a solid rig. However Ive tried looking around on here for opinions and information on savage rifles and can not really find anything. Are they good shooters?
I get asked this question a lot, and here are my thoughts:

Savage makes a good gun for around the $600 mark. You get modularity, the ability to change barrels, and the floating bolt head is a great engineering workaround for the inconsistencies in factory rifle production.

Savage has done a good job of innovating their products to fill the demand for good long range guns. Their new accufit stock is pretty good, I bought a .223 trainer rifle with a 26" heavy bbl that came with the accufit stock. It's got good LOP and cheek riser adjust-ability in addition to a full bedding block and a nice flat foreend.

They have other models that come with a full aluminum bedding block, accept AICS mags, include an EGW scope rail, threaded barrel, have an oversized bolt knob, and come in good calibers like 6.5 CM and .308. You get that for around the $600 mark, and that is a damn good deal.

Case in point.

Savage is a solid gun for the money, and you don't have to spend much to get a good shooter. They also have good target actions for a custom build if you want to go that route.

That said, $1500 is a very tricky price range for a rifle, and here's why:

You're at the very high end for a factory rifle. You can get a RPR, a Bergara, or a Tikka for around $1000, with some models obviously costing more. $1500 is a lot for a factory rifle.

It's also the low end of a custom build. A simple DIY build could be something like a BH Origin ($825), a prefit barrel ($300 from NSS), a KRG Bravo, ($350), and a trigger ($150). For a little more, you end up with the caliber, twist rate, trigger, and barrel contour that you want.
In other words, it's the difference between shopping around for the factory gun you want and possibly spending more than you want to customize it, or building your own, and ending up with the rifle of a lifetime.
 
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Lowholer

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I purchased all the deferent calibers of this rifle at cabelas on sale.They were a cabelas exclusive for $450.00 with a $100.00 rebate.I sold the stocks, bottom metals, magazines and purchased new chassis for all of them.I call them my budget rifles.I have done load work up on all but the 300 win mag as its new GRS Beserk Warg chassis will arrive this week.I put Vortex Viper 6.5x20x44 30mm with ballistic reticle on all of the short action calibers on sale at midway for $299.00 each free shipping I chose inexpensive vortex tactical rings on sale $20.00 each.I have opted for high end Ziest scope for the 300 win mag.
Any way They are an awesome shooter for the money.S0052010.JPGS0142026.JPG
 
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Spblademaker

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I purchased all the deferent calibers of this rifle at cabelas on sale.They were a cabelas exclusive for $450.00 with a $100.00 rebate.I sold the stocks, bottom metals, magazines and purchased new chassis for all of them.I call them my budget rifles.I have done load work up on all but the 300 win mag as its new GRS Beserk Warg chassis will arrive this week.I put Vortex Viper 6.5x20x44 30mm with ballistic reticle on all of the short action calibers on sale at midway for $299.00 each free shipping I chose inexpensive vortex tactical rings on sale $20.00 each.I have opted for high end Ziest scope for the 300 win mag.
Any way They are an awesome shooter for the money.View attachment 7115515View attachment 7115517
Don’t forget to get more ketchup when you go out.
 

BadAccountant

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I started with a model 11 in 260.
I learned a lot shooting that rifle.
Wore out a barrel and got halfway through another with it.

I’m tempted to put it together with a 223 or 224 Valkyrie barrel.
I got this in .223 as a trainer rifle for under $600.

This is a 15 shot group with 69 gr. SMKs over 24.5 gr. of RE15.

7115525
 

408w

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I have a model 12 lrp savage 6.5 Creedmoor. It’s a great gun shoots sub moa, but I started to shoot local prs matches and you can only get 10 rd mags from dark eagle custom. Really nice mag but not usable in my experience in a prs setting with 10 rds loaded (feed lips on a stock savage mag were not designed for 10 spring pressure). Anyway, gun shoots awesome, so I put cid bottom metal on it and get AICS mags. $300 or so later. Now at that cost point I would get a Bergara brm chassis rifle. The Bergara hrm stock feels cheep and the Tikka ctr needs a stock upgrade also.
 

PAYDIRT

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My "down the toilet Remington" sps 223 @ 430 yards. Rem 700 is THE budget rifle because of all the cheap aftermarket stuff that the px is full of. The Savage's do shoot but..IMG_7072.PNG
 

NewsShooter

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Savage LRP's are good rifles, I've had a couple, you can't run the bolt as fast as the others but mine have been as accurate as my customs. 6.5 CM still shoots sub moa after 2k rounds through it. I ran my trigger at just over 1lb and didn't have any issues at that weight. That being said I'd get the Tikka, I have a couple and the actions are much nicer.
 

Rekkr870

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I'm sure that Savage makes an OK rifle. I have had a Savage 10FP and it was a decent rifle. However....

With the Tikka and Howa rifles that you can get for right at 1K....Man there is no way that I would consider a Savage in 2019. The Howa and Tikka are better rifles. It is not particularly close.
 
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rlsmith1

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^ it won't be as smooth or fast but it will be plenty accurate. Savage rifles shoot great
 

hafejd30

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Couple of my Savages below.

To be completely honest the 300 WM brown/black gun shoots just as well as my GAP 300 WM. The Savage Accutrigger is better/lighter/crisper than the GAP with a tuned 700 trigger as well. I bought the GAP on here a while back and had the intentions of parting with the savage. But it’s to consistent and perfectly set up for me to part with.

The black/stainless is a 260 with a CBI 26” barrel. The group shown is that 260 at 600 yards. This gun was previously in a Mcree chassis. Which while not the prettiest gun on the line it did smoke 75% of the other rifles (most customs) on the line at a 1,000 yard F-Class match.

That said my I’ve had my share of ejection and extrication issues in the past with savage. These have larger detent balls in the actions which I put in every savage I have. Zero issues since doing that. The 300 is the smoothest savage action I’ve handled to date. I also swap springs in the triggers out as well. Mine are around 1 lbs 5 oz

I’m a fan of Tikka as well. Buddy has one and it’s very nice and shoots excellent. If money isn’t a problem there are better options than a savage. But don’t be surprised if the savage still manages to shoot as good or better. Even with there barrels full of chatter marks and more resembling drain pipes they still hold there own.

I did have a 338 LM savage that would throw the first one or two rounds low. Buddy had a 308 that threw the first rounds about 3/4” right. Rebarreled my 338 to a Shilen and it grouped 1/2 MOA cold/clean or hot barrel

7EC82379-AEE3-4F16-B49A-E2B48FF65C76.png564A8766-3AC4-44FF-9022-FA812E79E501.jpeg9DF934F9-ABC7-45D3-88F8-35EB9EE900FD.png
 
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Kevins750

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I have quite a few savage rifles most of them in stock form some with custom barrels.
They all shot very accurate out of the box. I like the accutrigger, I don't do comps so
Bolt speed doesn't come into play with me....

I will say this my savages may not be as sexy as my Remington 700's or as smooth as my
Howa 1500's or my Winchester 70's but the will outshoot them all.

If you buy a savage with a heavy barrel, throw it in an oryx chassis and shoot
The shit out of it.
 

Cambiste1

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Did the Savage 110BA .338LM depart from the long standing image, and reputation of Savage? I ask because I recently saw a new Savage 110BA .338LM sell for $2,890.00 on-line.
 

wade2big

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Cabelas puts their savage rifles on sale for less than $400. These will be varmint barrel rifles. They will not have the accustock. When Savage offers a $100 rebate, get on ebay and buy $100 cabela gift cards for $86 then go to Cabelas, purchase the rifle with cheap gift cards, then send in the savage rebate. Now you are less than $300 in on the rifle. Free float the plastic stock, add some weight in the hollow rear and now you have a cheap rifle that shoots as good as any custom rifle made. You will eventually have ejection and action problems but for a fun gun the value cant be beat.

This would be the only way I would consider a Savage. My shooting buddy does just this and he is happy. His only complaint is the occasional extraction and ejection and lack of aftermarket. If you want to doll up a rifle don’t spend the money to doll up a Savage. It will still only be worth $300. If you dont mind working with what you have then it is a cheap way in.
 

Vodoun daVinci

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I dolled up my Savage 10 FCP SR and added an MDT chassis and and XLR buttstock and other goodies and have a standing offer(s) from other shooters that would give most of my investment back if I wanted to sell which I do not. Savages have their following - mostly among other shooters who are not influenced by stuff like resale value (they don't intend to sell the gun) and are more focused on results like group size an accuracy instead of prestige, resale value, or other stuff.

It's not a "given" that Savages will all develop feeding/extraction and action issues. Mine is flawless coming up on 1K rounds. If I were a competitor in PRS and other rough and tumble games I'd start with something other than a Savage as it will be a better expenditure of $ but there is nothing wrong with the current line of Savage rifles as shooters or as a first precision rifle build.

VooDoo
 
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Gunfighter14e2

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The one center fire salvage I own is now flawless, but there was 3-4 months of repairing what they shipped for sale. Depending one your target they may or may not work for you out of the box. I will not own something that is not 100%, I either correct it or sell it. Bought the LR hunter in 338LM for one kind of target an it now fully fills the slot,.... but the road was very, very, long getting there.
 

ed308

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I have Savage 10 series rifles in .308 and 6.5 CM. Upgraded both to MDT chassis since not a fan of the Accustock. Both are 1/2 MOA out of the box. Changing the barrel is a breeze too. Wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.
 
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wade2big

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El Campo, TX
@Vodoun daVinci
I was being sarcastic when I said a dolled up savage’s value doesn’t go up. There are a few upgrades for them like the ones you used. They are also more expensive than the same items for the Remington’s and now even Tikkas. This was one of the reasons I recommended a Savage for guys that don’t plan on doing much to them as the money saved up front creeps back up on you on the backside.

It is good to know that the ejection/feeding issues aren’t across the board. They may be overblown just like what is posted about Remington.
 
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ed308

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Aug 4, 2019
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Neither of my Savages have had any serious ejection/feeding issues. The 6.5 CM did require some minor work on the mag to get it to seat easily. I usually buy the 10 series rifle with a threaded heavy barrel and Accutrigger. I then fit it with a MDT chassis that I picked on sale. Last year I picked up a blemish MDT LSS XL (Gen 1) for $100 plus a TAC21 for $300. Agree their value doesn't go up. But they are good value for the money. And easily being able to switch out a barrel and set the headspace is a big plus to me.
 
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Tx_Aggie

Gig 'em
Hessian
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Sep 3, 2017
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VA
The Savages I've seen with extraction or ejection issues have mostly been guns that had high round counts on them. They are accurate and a good value for the money, assuming you can't afford anything more expensive and don't intend to subject them to the sort of use/abuse that many competition guns see.

Try shooting 500-1000 rds per month through a Savage and you will likely start to see the issues many here warn about rather quickly.

The other side of that is, if you can afford to shoot that much spending a little more to buy a more reliable rifle isn't generally an issue.
 
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Greg Langelius *

Resident Elder Fart
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Aug 10, 2001
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Arizona, good place for me...
I did have a 338 LM savage that would throw the first one or two rounds low. Buddy had a 308 that threw the first rounds about 3/4” right. Rebarreled my 338 to a Shilen and it grouped 1/2 MOA cold/clean or hot barrel
I've been looking into manual bore lapping, and a few things have become apparent. The first is that I'm far from being ready to try it myself.

But other things have come to light.

This business of throwing first round(s) could well be related to bore diameter variations along the bore length. Factory barrels are not lapped and if those exist, they can be a source of cold bore flyers. Lapping with a rigid lap brings the tighter sections into better compliance with the diameter of rest of the length of the barrel, and appears to bring some resolution to the initial flyer issue.

So, what to do.

If there is no flyer problem, there is nothing to fix, so doing nothing is the best thing.

Unfortunately, this is not often the case with factory barrels, and is the best justification for rebarreling with a custom aftermarket hand lapped barrel. That's what I did, and the Lothar-Walther barrel I had installed was a terrific solution to just about any and all accuracy issues I had or might have had.

Now, what to do with the takeoff.

You can sell it, gift it, use it for a tomato stake, put it to use on a firearms whose application can tolerate flyers, or do something else.

Hmmm...; how about using one as a guinea pig to learn how to lap a bore? Unfortunately, I have no such barrels onhand; and if I did, I'm seriously unprepared to pour a lead lap.

This is where I am at present. I have some thoughts about how to do this (specifically relating to the 6.5mm bore diameter), but I'd rather hear from some who have actual experience about such matters before I go rabbiting off into the dark and do irreversible damage.

Greg
 
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hafejd30

Sergeant of the Hide
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Feb 27, 2019
354
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Wilson, MI
I've been looking into manual bore lapping, and a few things have become apparent. The first is that I'm far from being ready to try it myself.

But other things have come to light.

This business of throwing first round(s) could well be related to bore diameter variations along the bore length. Factory barrels are not lapped and if those exist, they can be a source of cold bore flyers. Lapping with a rigid lap brings the tighter sections into better compliance with the diameter of rest of the length of the barrel, and appears to bring some resolution to the initial flyer issue.

So, what to do.

If there is no flyer problem, there is nothing to fix, so doing nothing is the best thing.

Unfortunately, this is not often the case with factory barrels, and is the best justification for rebarreling with a custom aftermarket hand lapped barrel. That's what I did, and the Lothar-Walther barrel I had installed was a terrific solution to just about any and all accuracy issues I had or might have had.

Now, what to do with the takeoff.

You can sell it, gift it, use it for a tomato stake, put it to use on a firearms whose application can tolerate flyers, or do something else.

Hmmm...; how about using one as a guinea pig to learn how to lap a bore? Unfortunately, I have no such barrels onhand; and if I did, I'm seriously unprepared to pour a lead lap.

This is where I am at present. I have some thoughts about how to do this (specifically relating to the 6.5mm bore diameter), but I'd rather hear from some who have actual experience about such matters before I go rabbiting off into the dark and do irreversible damage.

Greg
I gave the old barrel to my smith. He wanted to lap it and test it etc. Ended up with same results. He talked to savage and they suggested sending it in to have it cryo treated.

He really doesn’t use factory barrels for anything and in fact has a bucket full of them in the machine shop from other factory rifles he’s rebarreled.

His plan I believe was to use it as a test barrel for suppressors just to meter them etc. He also talked of cutting it down and rechambering/recrowning etc. I think it still sits in the corner to this day
 

Greg Langelius *

Resident Elder Fart
Belligerents
Aug 10, 2001
6,585
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219
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Arizona, good place for me...
Another view I hold is that we often do our load development with faulty goals.

Loads that are intended for sustained fire COF's need (I suspect) to be load development tested under conditions similar to the COF (barrel temp, firing cadence, etc.); otherwise the barrel they are shot in isn't the same barrel (temp, especially) that determined the final load configuration.

It could be that the loads one shoots in hunting (cold bore) are really developed under sustained fire conditions. Hence they are not really honed down to precision accuracy under cold bore conditions.

The opposite can be equally true.

...And, Savage may be correct, with internal barrel stresses that alter POI/accuracy sweet spots as barrels heat up. The talk is that cryo treatment resolves this. The talk may be right.

Combine temperature expectations/actual practice, and internal stresses; and we see how factory barrels can have split personalities.

...Other barrels, as well...

Carlos Hathcock used to take his rifle out and shoot one round a day. Because he was firing one shot ("...one kill...") in actual service, the zero he developed with the single daily shot was as accurate as could be derived for his specific purpose. Smart man, Carlos...

I consider the accurate shooting process as being the development of a system. That system encompasses environment, shooting practices, rifle, ammunition, shooter, basic mechanical physics, and the laws of probability (especially as they apply to the constant changes inherent in the shooting environment).

Change one, and you change the entire system. It soon becomes apparent how every shot is influenced differently, and why bullets nearly never go through the same hole.

Learn how variations in each one (one at a time) influence outcomes, and you become the better shooter. Ignore the interrelationships, and you end up chasing your tail incessantly.

The interrelationships can be reasoned out in advance, allowing expectations to predict alternate outcomes. Doing this enough times can instill insight, allowing one to sometimes intuitively bypass the intermediate steps. This is the benefit that experience imparts.

This is also the scientific method, altering one variable at a time; and it is the essential path to improvement.

Greg
 
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spife7980

Luchador
Belligerents
Feb 10, 2017
6,001
3,205
119
Central TX
I've been looking into manual bore lapping, and a few things have become apparent. The first is that I'm far from being ready to try it myself.

But other things have come to light.

This business of throwing first round(s) could well be related to bore diameter variations along the bore length. Factory barrels are not lapped and if those exist, they can be a source of cold bore flyers. Lapping with a rigid lap brings the tighter sections into better compliance with the diameter of rest of the length of the barrel, and appears to bring some resolution to the initial flyer issue.

So, what to do.

If there is no flyer problem, there is nothing to fix, so doing nothing is the best thing.

Unfortunately, this is not often the case with factory barrels, and is the best justification for rebarreling with a custom aftermarket hand lapped barrel. That's what I did, and the Lothar-Walther barrel I had installed was a terrific solution to just about any and all accuracy issues I had or might have had.

Now, what to do with the takeoff.

You can sell it, gift it, use it for a tomato stake, put it to use on a firearms whose application can tolerate flyers, or do something else.

Hmmm...; how about using one as a guinea pig to learn how to lap a bore? Unfortunately, I have no such barrels onhand; and if I did, I'm seriously unprepared to pour a lead lap.

This is where I am at present. I have some thoughts about how to do this (specifically relating to the 6.5mm bore diameter), but I'd rather hear from some who have actual experience about such matters before I go rabbiting off into the dark and do irreversible damage.

Greg
This is just screaming for tubbs final finish fire lapping bullets. Let the consistent diameter bullets push and sand it themselves. A version to polish and a version to sand