salt bath annealing does not work

Skookum

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They're not "nuts". They're super Bench-Rest dickheads that believe shit no matter what the evidence is. FUDs are usually just ignorant, but most of them don't think they know everything there is to know about shooting and firearms. I don't belong to "The Bench Rest Club" in St. Louis (which is one of the premier BR clubs in the world) because it's full of fucktard old men who believe all sorts of horse shit about shooting, terminal ballistics, and "gun safety" that isn't so. They hold qualifications for every hundred yards and make it a year long process to be able to shoot to 1000, because they are absolute fucking idiots who think they're "experts". Sorry if some of you belong there, and I have good friends who do, but there are too many fucking morons for me.

While I like and am surrounded by extremely negative assholes all the time, I my tolerance for fools who think they're wise is below ZERO NFG. BR gurus embody ignorance masquerading as wisdom, refuse to learn anything new, and have a groupthink that should piss off any well adjusted person. They do bench-rest because they can't shoot, so they buy tiny groups for tens of thousands dollars. It's really a machining/hand loading contest and not a shooting contest.

I said that bullets "going to sleep" was bullshit on AS.com, based on basic Newtonian physics, and showed them the Litz testing that confirmed it was bullshit, and a bunch of the old guard bit my head off, said I was an idiot, and not to question "long time members" who have forgotten more about shooting than I will ever know. Really, that did if for me and I haven't been back to their forum.

SH is real world, real competition, (real direct action in a few cases) and no bullshit. Many or most guys on here fire more rounds in a season than a FUD will fire in his whole life, and more than a BR faggot will fire in ten years. We actually move and shoot the rifles in real conditions like real marksmen. We actually read the wind, read the mirage, and go when we hear "Engage!". We don't get to sit and wait for better conditions. We burn barrels out like FUDs buy a box of ammo.

There's tons of great info on Accurate shooter. The top BR guys wrote the books on hand-loading from which we've greatly benefited. Their advancements in gunsmithing and machining are partially why we have so many great rifles today. Their rifles can shoot. They can't. They're the snowflakes of the shooting community who can't hear an idea that's different from their dogma. They're useful as a reference, but I'd rather talk to the DMV or the IRS than deal with their ignorance parading as wisdom.
You just read my mind! You saved me the trouble.

I was, at one time, very close to the 1000 yard benchrest community (though not a participant). The club I was a member of was extremely active in that discipline. And....I lurk over on AS just about every day. It is exactly as you describe. They honestly believe they are marksmen and that all of their esoteric bullshit means much more than the "fuck all" it actually come to.

I do occasionally pick up a nugget so I keep lurking.

Those fuckers can print tiny groups at 1000 yards from a mechanical benchrest, and miss a deer at 300 yards on the same day.

By contrast, there are guys here that you can hand a zero'd rifle to that they had never seen before, tell them the bullet and speed, and they will get a hit on a 3/4 IPSC at 500 yards.

For the opposite...."Fudd Central" you gotta go over to longrangehunting.
 

clcustom1911

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Yes... but to some degree I've started coming back here for some reloading stuff. Some stuff that is a little outside the 'mainstream' norm over there is more easily accepted here, and it's easier to find persons willing to discuss those sorts of things.
Correct. I hit at least 3-4 different forums for reloading goodness on top of my own experience of about 10 years now.
 
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Milo 2.5

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I'm sure you've noticed... but most of the 'better' competitors, even in BR (and F-class) don't post there all that much... for much the same reasons you mentioned. Way too many internet 'High Masters'.

Then again, you have to have the B.S. filter turned up pretty high in some parts of the 'Hide as well ;)



Yes... but to some degree I've started coming back here for some reloading stuff. Some stuff that is a little outside the 'mainstream' norm over there is more easily accepted here, and it's easier to find persons willing to discuss those sorts of things.
No doubt the diversity is here for certain. But the degree of measuring success is where things part rather quickly.
On either site, when lesser experienced people start calling out those that understand, it never ends well.
I actually laughed out loud at figs post, and agreed with a lot of it because I see it weekly, and the "I'm mad and taking my knowledge elsewhere" cracks me up. Bye
But he minimized the significance a little too much.
 

Lynn Jr

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They're not "nuts". They're super Bench-Rest dickheads that believe shit no matter what the evidence is. FUDs are usually just ignorant, but most of them don't think they know everything there is to know about shooting and firearms. I don't belong to "The Bench Rest Club" in St. Louis (which is one of the premier BR clubs in the world) because it's full of fucktard old men who believe all sorts of horse shit about shooting, terminal ballistics, and "gun safety" that isn't so. They hold qualifications for every hundred yards and make it a year long process to be able to shoot to 1000, because they are absolute fucking idiots who think they're "experts". Sorry if some of you belong there, and I have good friends who do, but there are too many fucking morons for me.

While I like and am surrounded by extremely negative assholes all the time, I my tolerance for fools who think they're wise is below ZERO NFG. BR gurus embody ignorance masquerading as wisdom, refuse to learn anything new, and have a groupthink that should piss off any well adjusted person. They do bench-rest because they can't shoot, so they buy tiny groups for tens of thousands dollars. It's really a machining/hand loading contest and not a shooting contest.

I said that bullets "going to sleep" was bullshit on AS.com, based on basic Newtonian physics, and showed them the Litz testing that confirmed it was bullshit, and a bunch of the old guard bit my head off, said I was an idiot, and not to question "long time members" who have forgotten more about shooting than I will ever know. Really, that did if for me and I haven't been back to their forum.

SH is real world, real competition, (real direct action in a few cases) and no bullshit. Many or most guys on here fire more rounds in a season than a FUD will fire in his whole life, and more than a BR faggot will fire in ten years. We actually move and shoot the rifles in real conditions like real marksmen. We actually read the wind, read the mirage, and go when we hear "Engage!". We don't get to sit and wait for better conditions. We burn barrels out like FUDs buy a box of ammo.

There's tons of great info on Accurate shooter. The top BR guys wrote the books on hand-loading from which we've greatly benefited. Their advancements in gunsmithing and machining are partially why we have so many great rifles today. Their rifles can shoot. They can't. They're the snowflakes of the shooting community who can't hear an idea that's different from their dogma. They're useful as a reference, but I'd rather talk to the DMV or the IRS than deal with their ignorance parading as wisdom.
Wow!!!
You should have taken your 6.5 Creedmoor out there and showed all those old fools how to lay down 5 groups of 5 then flipped them all the bird as you walked away with your trophies.
 

Milo 2.5

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Wow!!!
You should have taken your 6.5 Creedmoor out there and showed all those old fools how to lay down 5 groups of 5 then flipped them all the bird as you walked away with your trophies.
Do you mind if I start a thread with a poll as to how long you will last this time? 25 bucks per vote, winner take all. Not sure if money will work, the button pushing will get heavy.
 
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Fig

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Does NOTHING for me, and you can brag about your groups all you want. Doesn’t means you can shoot AT ALL.
No doubt the diversity is here for certain. But the degree of measuring success is where things part rather quickly.
On either site, when lesser experienced people start calling out those that understand, it never ends well.
I actually laughed out loud at figs post, and agreed with a lot of it because I see it weekly, and the "I'm mad and taking my knowledge elsewhere" cracks me up. Bye
But he minimized the significance a little too much.
I’ve taught hundreds of students in the narrow areas where I actually am an expert. I’ve taken remedial classes in areas where I have extensive knowledge. In the former case you can’t teach someone who knows everything (even if it’s wrong), and in the latter case one word responses usually work best.

In short, humility ought to go hand in hand with knowledge. I thought I was quite a marksman till my first PRS match. Thank God I approached it hat in hand. Arrogant fucks are fine, but you had better get your facts straight first and be able to dance. I didn’t leave because I wanted to deprive them of my vast knowledge and intellect. I left because, “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” Mark Twain
 

Milo 2.5

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Does NOTHING for me, and you can brag about your groups all you want. Doesn’t means you can shoot AT ALL.

I’ve taught hundreds of students in the narrow areas where I actually am an expert. I’ve taken remedial classes in areas where I have extensive knowledge. In the former case you can’t teach someone who knows everything (even if it’s wrong), and in the latter case one word responses usually work best.

In short, humility ought to go hand in hand with knowledge. I thought I was quite a marksman till my first PRS match. Thank God I approached it hat in hand. Arrogant fucks are fine, but you had better get your facts straight first and be able to dance. I didn’t leave because I wanted to deprive them of my vast knowledge and intellect. I left because, “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” Mark Twain
I have never bragged about my shooting, nor did I question yours or your skills. I'm no BR guy.
I made a simple comment about minimizing the significances of the BR world is all. I also said I see the same shit but I seem to be more tolerant of it. I take 99% of gun forum shit with a grain of salt, I'm still going to do it my way.
 
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Fig

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I shoot 6X47l BTW. ;)

I think my comp gun in their game would do better than their comp gun in ours.

More appropriately, leave the guns and the game and switch trigger pullers...!
 

Steel head

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Does NOTHING for me, and you can brag about your groups all you want. Doesn’t means you can shoot AT ALL.

I’ve taught hundreds of students in the narrow areas where I actually am an expert. I’ve taken remedial classes in areas where I have extensive knowledge. In the former case you can’t teach someone who knows everything (even if it’s wrong), and in the latter case one word responses usually work best.

In short, humility ought to go hand in hand with knowledge. I thought I was quite a marksman till my first PRS match. Thank God I approached it hat in hand. Arrogant fucks are fine, but you had better get your facts straight first and be able to dance. I didn’t leave because I wanted to deprive them of my vast knowledge and intellect. I left because, “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” Mark Twain
Holy Christ!

Is that what BR looks like the hose days?
 
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Milo 2.5

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I shoot 6X47l BTW. ;)

I think my comp gun in their game would do better than their comp gun in ours.

More appropriately, leave the guns and the game and switch trigger pullers...!
Lol, I just bought my 4th Impact action yesterday morning, got a Bart 6mm tube on the way, I am going to revisit the 6x47 myself, for I had kept the dies which I rarely do, I load for 4 dashers and one 7 saum. End of June is the ETA for a Borden super short 6mm in 6BRA, which I am pumped about trying.
Today I do shoot at distance with a dasher and a 110 sierra that I could not with a 6 comp match, 6slr, 6 creed, or 6x47 shooting hybrids. Nothing has changed on my end, loading skills, shooting skills, etc... Just doing more with less< again, I don't brag, lol
 
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wapiti16b

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I've started annealing using heat from a homemade very small reactor core that also provides electricity for the house with enough left over to sell to the light company, which in turn pays for all my shooting needs. I'm thinking on bringing to market and call it Chernobyl I. It is very safe and I guess annealing 1000 cases is the equivalent radiation exposure as a single x-ray. I can easily handle lifetime warranty.
You no doubt came by the reactor core at the Roswell Crash Site!, when the core fails you could always harvest Bovine produced methane gasses thus PISSING OFF AOC!
 

lash

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Smart farmers have been harvesting porcine methane to generate energy for at least a couple generations now.
 

ken4570tc in WY

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I was less than satisfied with my first results with my SBA neck turned fire-formed .243 brass. When I reloaded the first hundred I could feel that bullet seating pressure was not consistent. I know the answer will be to buy an AMP but I'm genetically predisposed to experiment with the SBA method to try and find a solution before declaring AMP the hands down winner. My wife calls me stubborn!
 

Sutherlandsd

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Hmmn I've used socket and torch for about 30 years now. I would certainly but an amp or similar machine but honestly after screwing up a couple of cases in the 80s it's pretty damn idiot proof to socket and torch and doesn't cost $1k and as far as how many firings I have some 260 and 6br brass I threw away just because I had it what seemed like decades.
 
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lash

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Hmmn I've used socket and torch for about 30 years now. I would certainly but an amp or similar machine but honestly after screwing up a couple of cases in the 80s it's pretty damn idiot proof to socket and torch and doesn't cost $1k and as far as how many firings I have some 260 and 6br brass I threw away just because I had it what seemed like decades.
Meh! You and I are anachronisms that will fade away with our useful and affordable methods. Its true that induction annealing is a more consistent and accurate method, but as I mentioned before, my use of torch and socket hasn’t failed me so far and my chrono tells me that it does well enough to give me low SD.

There are applications for the AMP that are very valid. These include very high volume shooters, ELR/ultra LR competitors and Bullseye/bench-rest competitors.

Don’t know nuttin’ ‘bout no SBA, lessin you mean the Small Business Association.
 
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918v

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I was less than satisfied with my first results with my SBA neck turned fire-formed .243 brass. When I reloaded the first hundred I could feel that bullet seating pressure was not consistent. I know the answer will be to buy an AMP but I'm genetically predisposed to experiment with the SBA method to try and find a solution before declaring AMP the hands down winner. My wife calls me stubborn!
Hard seating is caused by the oxide on the neck surface. Get some graphite neck lube and the bullets will seat nice and smooth.
 

Clearlight

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That rail gun pictured several posts above would be a great test rig to confirm on deny the pros and cons
of both forms of annealing . What I’m getting from the US Army tests and the AMP guys tests, is that if you
get enough heat into the case with SBA to soften the neck , you are overheating the rest of the case .

For the SBA fans I have a couple of questions.
1. How many times can you SBA before primer pockets get loose ?
2. What calibers are you “annealing” ?
3. Can SBA bring old hard cases back from the dead to the point where ES is greatly reduced ?

Same as everyone here, my results are just a sample of one but I’ll go ahead anyhow. What I’ve found during
wearing out a dozen 6.5 x 47 barrels, is that group size got bigger after about 3 firings of unturned Lapua
brass. For the 4th and subsequent firings, I needed to reduce the size of the neck bushing in a Forster
bushing bump neck die, to get adequate neck tension back. ES started to climb with every subsequent
firing, confirmed with an Oehler 35 and LabRadar. I realised that to stay at the sharp end of the field I
needed to buy new brass frequently to win comps.

This was costing me a shitload in buying new brass, shooting over 150 rounds in competition every two
weeks adds up to a lot of brass quickly. Here in Aus, x 47 brass is about $240 per hundred from my local
retailer. I gave some brass to a friend with an SBA unit, the results were better slightly better than non SBA
brass, but ES was still not as good as fresh brass.

Unsatisfied with this, I bought an AMP annealer. ES is now always less than 10, even on cases that have
been fired over 25 times ! Primer pockets are still tight too : I’m very curious to hear if SBA users are getting
this kind of life from their cases, particularly Lapua x47 cases so it’s apples to apples ?

In my circumstance, the cost of the AMP annealer easily pays for itself over a year or so, dramatically
reducing my expenditure on new brass. Interestingly, the guy who I got to SBA some brass for me has
never beaten me in competiton, yet is still derisive of my expenditure on an AMP unit....
 
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Clearlight

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I don’t think you beating him has anything to do with annealing. Do you?
Actually yes . Regarding your comments about “ superbenchrest dickheads “ , PRS and BR are closer
than you think . Why is everyone in PRS going to 6BR case variants ? Lots of talk about shooting “ free
recoil “ too , off shooting bags that are getting more and more specific to,purpose just like BR.
McMillan stocks was started by Gale McMillan who held a world BR record for 30ish years. Everything I
learnt in reloading which I use in comps and ELR came from BR, with the one exception of barrel cleaning
routines . YMMV .
 
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Cerwinski

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They're not "nuts". They're super Bench-Rest dickheads that believe shit no matter what the evidence is. FUDs are usually just ignorant, but most of them don't think they know everything there is to know about shooting and firearms. I don't belong to "The Bench Rest Club" in St. Louis (which is one of the premier BR clubs in the world) because it's full of fucktard old men who believe all sorts of horse shit about shooting, terminal ballistics, and "gun safety" that isn't so. They hold qualifications for every hundred yards and make it a year long process to be able to shoot to 1000, because they are absolute fucking idiots who think they're "experts". Sorry if some of you belong there, and I have good friends who do, but there are too many fucking morons for me.

While I like and am surrounded by extremely negative assholes all the time, I my tolerance for fools who think they're wise is below ZERO NFG. BR gurus embody ignorance masquerading as wisdom, refuse to learn anything new, and have a groupthink that should piss off any well adjusted person. They do bench-rest because they can't shoot, so they buy tiny groups for tens of thousands dollars. It's really a machining/hand loading contest and not a shooting contest.

I said that bullets "going to sleep" was bullshit on AS.com, based on basic Newtonian physics, and showed them the Litz testing that confirmed it was bullshit, and a bunch of the old guard bit my head off, said I was an idiot, and not to question "long time members" who have forgotten more about shooting than I will ever know. Really, that did if for me and I haven't been back to their forum.

SH is real world, real competition, (real direct action in a few cases) and no bullshit. Many or most guys on here fire more rounds in a season than a FUD will fire in his whole life, and more than a BR faggot will fire in ten years. We actually move and shoot the rifles in real conditions like real marksmen. We actually read the wind, read the mirage, and go when we hear "Engage!". We don't get to sit and wait for better conditions. We burn barrels out like FUDs buy a box of ammo.

There's tons of great info on Accurate shooter. The top BR guys wrote the books on hand-loading from which we've greatly benefited. Their advancements in gunsmithing and machining are partially why we have so many great rifles today. Their rifles can shoot. They can't. They're the snowflakes of the shooting community who can't hear an idea that's different from their dogma. They're useful as a reference, but I'd rather talk to the DMV or the IRS than deal with their ignorance parading as wisdom.
Holy shit lol.
 

Bradu

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They're not "nuts". They're super Bench-Rest dickheads that believe shit no matter what the evidence is. FUDs are usually just ignorant, but most of them don't think they know everything there is to know about shooting and firearms. I don't belong to "The Bench Rest Club" in St. Louis (which is one of the premier BR clubs in the world) because it's full of fucktard old men who believe all sorts of horse shit about shooting, terminal ballistics, and "gun safety" that isn't so. They hold qualifications for every hundred yards and make it a year long process to be able to shoot to 1000, because they are absolute fucking idiots who think they're "experts". Sorry if some of you belong there, and I have good friends who do, but there are too many fucking morons for me.

While I like and am surrounded by extremely negative assholes all the time, I my tolerance for fools who think they're wise is below ZERO NFG. BR gurus embody ignorance masquerading as wisdom, refuse to learn anything new, and have a groupthink that should piss off any well adjusted person. They do bench-rest because they can't shoot, so they buy tiny groups for tens of thousands dollars. It's really a machining/hand loading contest and not a shooting contest.

I said that bullets "going to sleep" was bullshit on AS.com, based on basic Newtonian physics, and showed them the Litz testing that confirmed it was bullshit, and a bunch of the old guard bit my head off, said I was an idiot, and not to question "long time members" who have forgotten more about shooting than I will ever know. Really, that did if for me and I haven't been back to their forum.

SH is real world, real competition, (real direct action in a few cases) and no bullshit. Many or most guys on here fire more rounds in a season than a FUD will fire in his whole life, and more than a BR faggot will fire in ten years. We actually move and shoot the rifles in real conditions like real marksmen. We actually read the wind, read the mirage, and go when we hear "Engage!". We don't get to sit and wait for better conditions. We burn barrels out like FUDs buy a box of ammo.

There's tons of great info on Accurate shooter. The top BR guys wrote the books on hand-loading from which we've greatly benefited. Their advancements in gunsmithing and machining are partially why we have so many great rifles today. Their rifles can shoot. They can't. They're the snowflakes of the shooting community who can't hear an idea that's different from their dogma. They're useful as a reference, but I'd rather talk to the DMV or the IRS than deal with their ignorance parading as wisdom.
So what you are saying is I'm not missing anything by not signing up at st Louis benchrest club? I went there once and it's a nice facility but the one time fee of the 1000+ range is more than I want to spend when it's a 2 hour drive.
 

Fig

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It’s a very nice facility, but it IS a bench rest club. There are too many geniuses there who know everything there is to know. There are also a lot of very good guys, but they don’t seem to be in charge. It’s a square range for punching paper. They’d clutch their pearls if they saw you shooting off a barricade. You’d probably get kicked out for all sorts of safety violations.

@Clearlight, I put disclaimers in my rant that appearently you didn’t read, because you keep harping on those very things. Sorry if you’re offended, but it’s more likely your bullets “go to sleep” than your annealing methods are winning you any matches UNLESS it’s a BR match.

My library has a ton of BR books and I’ve read them all (especially Ziediker and Boyer).

Our crotchety old guys are funny, mostly military, and don’t take themselves so seriously. Over there they’re mostly just ignorant dickheads regurgitating. Sorry, but that’s my assessment.
 

ken4570tc in WY

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Hard seating is caused by the oxide on the neck surface. Get some graphite neck lube and the bullets will seat nice and smooth.
I used the NECO dry graphite both before and after opening the neck with the Sinclair expander mandrel. I'm going to try to leave some sacrificial rounds in the salt a little longer but keep the depth just below the case-shoulder junction.
 

Sutherlandsd

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I would never knock anyone for buying an amp... And heat is not heat when it comes to annealing... Consistent heat though.... A little practice and annealing can be done just as effective imo but maybe not as convenient.
 

Lynn Jr

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Actually yes . Regarding your comments about “ superbenchrest dickheads “ , PRS and BR are closer
than you think . Why is everyone in PRS going to 6BR case variants ? Lots of talk about shooting “ free
recoil “ too , off shooting bags that are getting more and more specific to,purpose just like BR.
McMillan stocks was started by Gale McMillan who held a world BR record for 30ish years. Everything I
learnt in reloading which I use in comps and ELR came from BR, with the one exception of barrel cleaning
routines . YMMV .
Tiny minds are easily insulted you have to remember that when posting. Facts don't matter. Myth Busters could spend months here.
 

Lynn Jr

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Do you mind if I start a thread with a poll as to how long you will last this time? 25 bucks per vote, winner take all. Not sure if money will work, the button pushing will get heavy.
I don't mind at all.
Can we do the same with the dolly Lama?
 

308pirate

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How did I know that Lynn Jr would turn this into a shitshow.

I'm also one of those with professional knowledge on the subject who is sitting back and enjoying the popcorn.

Sooooo many people without a clue but acting like they own this. LOL
 

Clearlight

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It’s a very nice facility, but it IS a bench rest club. There are too many geniuses there who know everything there is to know. There are also a lot of very good guys, but they don’t seem to be in charge. It’s a square range for punching paper. They’d clutch their pearls if they saw you shooting off a barricade. You’d probably get kicked out for all sorts of safety violations.

@Clearlight, I put disclaimers in my rant that appearently you didn’t read, because you keep harping on those very things. Sorry if you’re offended, but it’s more likely your bullets “go to sleep” than your annealing methods are winning you any matches UNLESS it’s a BR match.

My library has a ton of BR books and I’ve read them all (especially Ziediker and Boyer).

Our crotchety old guys are funny, mostly military, and don’t take themselves so seriously. Over there they’re mostly just ignorant dickheads regurgitating. Sorry, but that’s my assessment.
:) no offence taken cuz . Most ranges open to the public have an ‘ interesting ‘ array of personalities, with
a lot of misinformation being regurgitated. Today’s session at my local range was no exception....
 
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AHC222

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There are a couple interesting factors.

First, why aren’t they showing a comparison with their own annealing? They show one version of annealing doesn’t work... ok. But they’re not showing that expensive induction annealing is any better either.

So I found their previous tests with their own annealing. The testing methods and measurements are so incredibly different.

The best part, in their previous tests they didn’t polish the neck and shoulder because they found it increases surface hardness by about 15. So they measured inside the cross section.

This time, they polish the neck and brass of the salt annealed brass.

I haven’t invested in salt yet either. I use a torch when I have time to kill, and I’ve been playing with the idea of making my own annealing machine. But if I was mulling salt bath vs annealing this test tells me nothing.
Was there any more info addressing these variances that I missed? My eyes started to gloss over once Fudds, benchrest shooting, and Accurate Shooter came up.

Some good points here though. Although I'm more than willing to acknowledge the results by AMP, a little clarification would be nice.
 

Sean the Nailer

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Regarding this SBA annealing and it 'not working', has ANYONE incorporated any kind of agitation to their process?

And no, I don't mean you standing there and yelling at things. I'm talking about swirling around/moving around the liquid medium for a more (?) consistent heat transfer.
 
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thaflash_la

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Was there any more info addressing these variances that I missed? My eyes started to gloss over once Fudds, benchrest shooting, and Accurate Shooter came up.

Some good points here though. Although I'm more than willing to acknowledge the results by AMP, a little clarification would be nice.
Not that I’ve seen. I don’t think people are very concerned that they didn’t compare the results.

I wouldn't debate that an AMP machine works, and even that it works better than most options.

Someone else also mentioned if what they are measuring is actually important to us. That’s a good question too. What do we now about that value as it relates to the results that we’re looking for?
 
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Lynn Jr

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How did I know that Lynn Jr would turn this into a shitshow.

I'm also one of those with professional knowledge on the subject who is sitting back and enjoying the popcorn.

Sooooo many people without a clue but acting like they own this. LOL
Tom Tom Tom you sound bitter after all your problems at Thunder Valley.
And with the FCSA or are those issues already posted here?
 

ken4570tc in WY

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I can tell you all that annealing works - from my experience, after doing everything else right with my factory Savage .308Win, I wasn't able to achieve single digit SD's until I started annealing. However, that was using the torch and rotating case holder method. I've only tried the Salt Bath method once and didn't get the desired results but am not willing to abandon it until I've tried all my options of time, temperature and depth of immersion.
 

Rocster

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I got pulled into this debate running another FB group[ about Annealing... [Frank don't ban me again please] I make and share info to help folks...not to make money. I have nothing against that either. AMP is doing a full court attack on salt bath annealing and many of us have challenged much of their article, their perceived salt bath method process and unbiased testing procedures.
General Fact: Brass can be annealed with Salt Bath Method....so if that is accepted by the leading source of all industry professionals in the world. "Engineering360 is the world's largest online destination for engineers, delivering the single source for critical engineering content, information, insight, tools and community for engineers and technical professionals across multiple industries and disciplines" ............see link below..
Then it really comes down to as many of us have said on their publications it is about the PROCESS and the TESTING of using Salt Bath for annealing rifle brass. Until they get a guy that done it for 10 years and seen it working in his shooting and use an independent testing lab and test for what is needed... real outcomes of lower SD/ES and longer lasting brass in a controlled repeatable testing environment I will believe they have an agenda to sell the AMP machines and not to the truth of what can be done/used to "properly" anneal brass for shooting. Don't get me wrong, Induction heating[radiation] works and they make a great machine that does it well, but not every shooter can afford to spend $1300 plus on an annealing solution.
.......................................................................................................https://www.globalspec.com/.../indus.../heat_treatment_salts
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Heat Treatment Salts Selection Guide | Engineering360

GLOBALSPEC.COM
Heat Treatment Salts Selection Guide | Engineering360
https://www.globalspec.com/learnmore/materials_chemicals_adhesives/industrial_oils_fluids/heat_treatment_salts
 

Rocster

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I’m curious why all these supposed engineers can’t replicate the test themselves and refute amps findings. Surely someone out there has the capabilities.
maybe you should ask... or be curious to ask.......... WHY is the super best annealing product in the world so SCARED of a simple REDNECK process of salt bath annealing..... think on it..