riflekuhl cooling systems.

mosin46

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anybody using this? works? safe for bore? read some stuff. some said fixes a non problem. BS. try shooting in fl in aug. yes i think barrel heating is an issue for accuracy and for sure re-barrel life.
 

BurnOut

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Yep, and it works great (vs. letting the gun just sit or other chamber/barrel cooling solutions I've tried).

The only hitch I've discovered so far is that the body of the thing is too long to fit into the ejection port of a Howa mini-action.
 

davsco

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is this thing a fan? did a prs match a few weekends ago some guy had a 'chamber chiller' or something like that. wreaked havok with my electronic ears. not a fan, pun intended.
 
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mosin46

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in the past saw something like a chilled rod to place in bore for cooling. as i recall that system looked a bit tedious. this thing looks simple enough. shouldn't be loud? batt operated.
 

Ranger188

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I bought this when it was on sale.
Put a piece of tube onto the opening, to go down to the chamber.
Works a little, can feel air coming out the end of barrel.
Better than nothing.
Your only putting outside temp. air down the barrel, so if it's
80 degs. out then your pumping 80 deg. air down the barrel,
but it's cooler than what's in it.
Otherwise, bring a cooler with a small towel soaked in water and
place in freezer a little before hand, then place as close to chamber or wrap around barrel.
it will suck out the heat from the barrel in-between strings of fire.

 

mcfred

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I guess I'm weird. I just built another rifle so that one sits and cools while the other is shot. If 2 rifles isn't enough to keep things cool, then I'll go for 3... Besides I seem to have a constant issues with batteries being dead when least convenient and I just want to shoot instead of waste time with barrel cooling gadgets.

 
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Old_Longhair

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A beautiful day! Temperature about 65°F, sunny, and no wind. Perfect for my test of the new Magnetospeed RifleKuhl.

I took the Howa APC 6.5CM out with a box of S&B 140gr (no point in burning more expensive ammo), and since I had previously noted accuracy taking a dive after about 10 rounds, I decided that 10 rounds would be the string length before taking pics and firing up the RifleKuhl. Unfortunately, because it was sunny the Hi/Lo temp indicators found other things warmer than the barrel to spot on, so you have to judge these pics solely on color, but it's fairly obvious even so.

First pic is with everything stone cold. This is the benchmark.
Cold.jpg

This still on the horizontal after 10 rounds fired.
After 10 Rounds.jpg

Next is standing vertical, hot with the bolt open.
Standing Hot Bolt Open.jpg

Then, after 5min with the RifleKuhl running.
After 5min On RifleKuhl.jpg

And finally, after 8min with the RifleKuhl on.
After 8min On RifleKuhl.jpg

One thing that I'd like to note is that with the gun standing vertically and the unit turned on, the vibration of the running motor prevented the magnet in the RifleKuhl from holding the unit as deep in the chamber as I would like, and it may have allowed some air to escape around the little flexible seal on the stem. If left horizontal it works just fine (I tried it after the second 10 rounds).


All-in-all, I'd have to say that it works pretty well.

I don't know if it's worth $60, but I'm sure that I'll get a lot of use out of it, especially after the stamp comes for my can that's in jail.
 
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SonicBurlap

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Works well for me, does what it says. By far better than all the other contraptions that have been on the market for the same purpose so far. Price wasn't $60 though (thank goodness) since I bought it on MidwayUSA.
 

Floglock

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Got one on Midway also. Works for me in FL, pushes alot of air. It’s not the quietest fan I’ve ever heard.
 
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ThePretzel

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Why not just funnel a bottle of water down the bore and dry patch it?
As mentioned that can change the point of impact because it's still cleaning the barrel somewhat. Not removing much copper, but you'll take some with you and you'll definitely clear out some powder fouling.

More importantly, fans like the Riflekuhl don't require you to have a cleaning rod, bore guide, extra water, and patches when you go to a match. It fits pretty easily in any pack, and t

The only kind of cleaning rods that can be easily put into a pack - multi-piece rods - are the same kinds of cleaning rods you generally don't want to be using since they'll deflect more as they travel down the bore than a 1-piece rod. A rod with increased deflection is more likely to scratch or otherwise damage your barrel's bore, especially if used without a bore guide (another extra thing to carry)

As far as water goes, I don't know about you but on days where it's hot enough to need additional barrel cooling I can hardly carry enough water for myself. I bring three 1-liter water bottles to every day of every match, and even on cool days I go through at least 2 of them by the time 2-3 o'clock rolls around. On days where the temperature gets above 80 degrees I'm usually finished with all 3 of them by noon unless I carefully ration it to last the full day.
 

SonicBurlap

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Got one on Midway also. Works for me in FL, pushes alot of air. It’s not the quietest fan I’ve ever heard.
You're right about the fan but a non-issue I'm wearing hearing protection at the range and so does everyone else, or they won't be at the range very long because it's mandated, and there is no need to run it at home. If anyone else at the range has a problem with it I'd rather hear the whine of the fan than theirs.
 

jd5521

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You're right about the fan but a non-issue I'm wearing hearing protection at the range and so does everyone else, or they won't be at the range very long because it's mandated, and there is no need to run it at home. If anyone else at the range has a problem with it I'd rather hear the whine of the fan than theirs.
This ^^^^
 

Floglock

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Anybody wearing electronic ear pro that it has reacted with? Not implying there are any just curious...
 

katana1911

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All interesting stuff, but it brings up a point that as a novice I've not seen addressed elsewhere: granted, too much heat will ruin a fine barrel and it's wise to let the barrel cool at intervals, but how much heat is too much heat. I have a Ruger Precision Rifle (that I have not shot yet) in 6.5CM and I'm getting ready to break in the barrel and start sighting in and shooting at various ranges. Is there a way, without lots of heavy expensive test equipment, that I can tell when the barrel needs to be allowed to cool down? Is there a "touch test" like what I use to tell if my backyard grill is ready? Something more esoteric? Something simpler?
 

BurnOut

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Why not just funnel a bottle of water down the bore and dry patch it?
Honestly, I'd be a bit concerned about effecting the temper on the barrel by quenching it too quickly. I also have to wonder if you might induce stress in the barrel through differential cooling (rapidly pulling all of the heat out of the bore without similarly cooling the exterior of the barrel).

That being said, I am not a metallurgist, I don't play one on TV, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I retain the right to be wrong.
 

Hollywood 6mm

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All interesting stuff, but it brings up a point that as a novice I've not seen addressed elsewhere: granted, too much heat will ruin a fine barrel and it's wise to let the barrel cool at intervals, but how much heat is too much heat. I have a Ruger Precision Rifle (that I have not shot yet) in 6.5CM and I'm getting ready to break in the barrel and start sighting in and shooting at various ranges. Is there a way, without lots of heavy expensive test equipment, that I can tell when the barrel needs to be allowed to cool down? Is there a "touch test" like what I use to tell if my backyard grill is ready? Something more esoteric? Something simpler?
If you can't hold your barrel in a bare hand for at least 5-10 seconds, it's too hot.
 
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BWB

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I guess I'm weird. I just built another rifle so that one sits and cools while the other is shot. If 2 rifles isn't enough to keep things cool, then I'll go for 3...
The cost of the gadget is much less than another rifle and these are geared toward competative shooters (although fits a niche for all shooters) where I CANNOT have another rifle to shoot.

Yes, they are loud but they work. I've heard that around the 6-8 minute mark, of them running they've done everything they are going to. I have not and do not have the equipment to prove or disprove this statement but seems about right in my experiences.
 

mcfred

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What competitions are you shooting that will not allow your singular rifle time to cool? In my local steel matches, I shoot up to 15 rounds within 120 seconds after which I stand around for 20 minutes for 6-8 other people to shoot before moving on to the next stage. Other than a shiny stainless rifle sitting in the Summer sun in the desert, my barrel cools off to ambient within that time period.

You're free to buy stuff as you like. Personally, I'd put the $60+ toward a replacement barrel (or another rifle) and use a damp handkerchief if I need to cool my barrel that badly.
 
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Ledzep

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Honestly, I'd be a bit concerned about effecting the temper on the barrel by quenching it too quickly. I also have to wonder if you might induce stress in the barrel through differential cooling (rapidly pulling all of the heat out of the bore without similarly cooling the exterior of the barrel).

That being said, I am not a metallurgist, I don't play one on TV, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I retain the right to be wrong.
Gotta get over 1500 degrees to quench and get a phase change to martensite (brittle phase you get after quenching). Temper is a function of heat and time. You'd do more to temper the barrel (make it softer) by leaving it to air cool than by rapidly cooling it. Dipping a 400-800 degree steel part in water does nothing other than stop the temper from progressing. The only thing I'd worry about would be thermal shock and cracking, but you have to try HARD to get the barrel over 200-250 F, and you're not going to cause thermal shock by watering a 250 degree part.

Basically, you need a machinegun and a long belt of ammo before you'd run the risk of what you're talking about.
 
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ThePretzel

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All interesting stuff, but it brings up a point that as a novice I've not seen addressed elsewhere: granted, too much heat will ruin a fine barrel and it's wise to let the barrel cool at intervals, but how much heat is too much heat. I have a Ruger Precision Rifle (that I have not shot yet) in 6.5CM and I'm getting ready to break in the barrel and start sighting in and shooting at various ranges. Is there a way, without lots of heavy expensive test equipment, that I can tell when the barrel needs to be allowed to cool down? Is there a "touch test" like what I use to tell if my backyard grill is ready? Something more esoteric? Something simpler?
There's a couple companies that make nice stickers that indicate the temperature of the metal they're stuck to. I try to always keep my barrel below 150 degrees, and ideally below 120 degrees, when measured by one of these indicators. These numbers are good rules of thumb to maximize barrel life, but not absolute limits by any means. Your barrel can get hotter without problems, it just will start to degrade barrel life the hotter it is when you shoot it.

They're just generally accepted values from what I've read in various locations (including other threads here) and from talking with other shooters. Unfortunately I can't say that I've been able to find any studies or create my own empirical evidence to prove the numbers true or false, it's just what I go with.

For my 27" heavy varmint contour barrel it takes 15-20 shots in fairly rapid succession to reach the 150 degree mark near the chamber of the rifle (where the sticker is placed). This is starting out at about 70* and shooting at a climate controlled indoor range, so obviously that will vary when you shoot outside or in different conditions.
 

Srgt. Hulka

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Honestly, I'd be a bit concerned about effecting the temper on the barrel by quenching it too quickly. I also have to wonder if you might induce stress in the barrel through differential cooling (rapidly pulling all of the heat out of the bore without similarly cooling the exterior of the barrel).

That being said, I am not a metallurgist, I don't play one on TV, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I retain the right to be wrong.
Gotta get over 1500 degrees to quench and get a phase change to martensite (brittle phase you get after quenching). Temper is a function of heat and time. You'd do more to temper the barrel (make it softer) by leaving it to air cool than by rapidly cooling it. Dipping a 400-800 degree steel part in water does nothing other than stop the temper from progressing. The only thing I'd worry about would be thermal shock and cracking, but you have to try HARD to get the barrel over 200-250 F, and you're not going to cause thermal shock by watering a 250 degree part.

Basically, you need a machinegun and a long belt of ammo before you'd run the risk of what you're talking about.
I agree with Ledzep. I'm pretty sure the water would not do anything to the temper of the barrel. I do think, however, that pouting water over, or into, a hot barrel could cool it unevenly, and possibly change the shape of it, warping it, for lack of better term, ever so slightly. I'm not a metallurgist, and I may be WAY off base here, and may not know WTF I'm talking about, but there is no way I'd poor water down a hot barrel and risk cooling it unevenly. A cheap 10/22 barrel, maybe, but not a $600-$800 precision barrel.
 

SonicBurlap

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Personally I prefer to clip that little device on my range bag and use it when needed rather than lug umpteen quarts or gallons of water. Especially since a chamber flag is mandated where I shoot anyway and because I try to keep water from my rifles as much as possible but then again different strokes for different folks. I find it peculiar that some folks willing to shell out several thousand bucks for a custom precision rifle have a hard time parting with $50.00 for a barrel cooler/chamber flag with a decent fan and a micron filter; but then again it works for me and this is America where we have choice on what we do with our rifles and how we spend our bucks at least for now.
 

superde

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I find it peculiar that some folks willing to shell out several thousand bucks for a custom precision rifle have a hard time parting with $50.00 for a barrel cooler/chamber flag with a decent fan and a micron filter; but then again it works for me and this is America where we have choice on what we do with our rifles and how we spend our bucks at least for now.
Preach on brother. Over 15 years of shooting PRS "style" comps, and i've met a ton of people with 5-10k setups that are offended by spending money on the accessories, unless it's at Walmart prices.
 

Ledzep

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I've just run compressed air through a hot barrel at 100 psi for 10+ minutes and still had hot air come out the muzzle. Air is a poor heat evacuator. I got no problem removing heat, I'm just thinking you might as well do it effectively as you can. Not like you can't catch the water coming out of the muzzle if you're worried about weight.
 

SonicBurlap

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I've just run compressed air through a hot barrel at 100 psi for 10+ minutes and still had hot air come out the muzzle. Air is a poor heat evacuator. I got no problem removing heat, I'm just thinking you might as well do it effectively as you can. Not like you can't catch the water coming out of the muzzle if you're worried about weight.
The weight I'd be worried about is quarts or gallons of water to be lugged to the range, I used to carry big heavy rucks and am now that I don't do that anymore a fan of traveling light. However, even more than that I would dread the inevitable immediate drying, clean and lube fest that would have to follow to prevent the nemesis of all steel whether Chromoly, or stainless to occur. I am not a fan of water for anything in regards to precision rifles, or any rifle, or even good knife for that matter. You can call me old fashioned but on that one I'll go with what everyone from the gentleman with the big round hat to every armorer, or marksmanship instructor basic and advanced in the service drilled into my head: "Leave steel and water mixes to the Navy they can make it float."
 
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brianf

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There's a couple companies that make nice stickers that indicate the temperature of the metal they're stuck to. I try to always keep my barrel below 150 degrees, and ideally below 120 degrees, when measured by one of these indicators. These numbers are good rules of thumb to maximize barrel life, but not absolute limits by any means. Your barrel can get hotter without problems, it just will start to degrade barrel life the hotter it is when you shoot it.

They're just generally accepted values from what I've read in various locations (including other threads here) and from talking with other shooters. Unfortunately I can't say that I've been able to find any studies or create my own empirical evidence to prove the numbers true or false, it's just what I go with.

For my 27" heavy varmint contour barrel it takes 15-20 shots in fairly rapid succession to reach the 150 degree mark near the chamber of the rifle (where the sticker is placed). This is starting out at about 70* and shooting at a climate controlled indoor range, so obviously that will vary when you shoot outside or in different conditions.
what made you choose 150 degrees?

feels hot to the touch..so it must be too hot etc
 

SonicBurlap

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what made you choose 150 degrees?

feels hot to the touch..so it must be too hot etc
Here's someting from Brazos Custom Gunworks I found, it's primarily aimed at pistol shooters and the perimeters of his experiment are not quite up to strictly scientific standards but it gives sort of an illustration as to temperatures and also the effect it can have on Blue Loctite which many use to give rail and scope screws that extra hold. Heat doesn't stay isolated to the barrel but since your action is attached to it it will also heat the rail screws attached with additional Loctite which are not just subject to recoil but heat as well. But hey you can always run your rig like a Browning M1917 water cooled machine gun I guess; after all it works for my computer but as an added thought it also has several industrial strength fans that create quite a whine when run at full speed LOL.

 
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BurnOut

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Gotta get over 1500 degrees to quench and get a phase change to martensite (brittle phase you get after quenching). Temper is a function of heat and time. You'd do more to temper the barrel (make it softer) by leaving it to air cool than by rapidly cooling it. Dipping a 400-800 degree steel part in water does nothing other than stop the temper from progressing. The only thing I'd worry about would be thermal shock and cracking, but you have to try HARD to get the barrel over 200-250 F, and you're not going to cause thermal shock by watering a 250 degree part.

Basically, you need a machinegun and a long belt of ammo before you'd run the risk of what you're talking about.
I agree with Ledzep. I'm pretty sure the water would not do anything to the temper of the barrel. I do think, however, that pouting water over, or into, a hot barrel could cool it unevenly, and possibly change the shape of it, warping it, for lack of better term, ever so slightly. I'm not a metallurgist, and I may be WAY off base here, and may not know WTF I'm talking about, but there is no way I'd poor water down a hot barrel and risk cooling it unevenly. A cheap 10/22 barrel, maybe, but not a $600-$800 precision barrel.
Fair enough... these are the reasons that I am so up front about my amateur status on these sorts of issues. :)

I appreciate the knowledge, gentlemen!
 

D_TROS

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Absolutely necessary if using a suppressor. Still effective without. Suppressors are heat traps...Even if I forget the fan (waiting on my new magneto speed one now) just blowing down the barrel to clear some hot air also helps noticeably. Not the safest thing suck starting a rifle barrel but helps a ton.

Did the Coors light challenge in Alabama couple summers ago at a match when these started coming out. After a stage (before start of next stage), my barrel was still too hot to touch, and buddy same cal and everything (both Thunderbeast suppressors) his barrel was fine to touch. I was shocked. And sold.


GL
DT
 

ThePretzel

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what made you choose 150 degrees?

feels hot to the touch..so it must be too hot etc
Like I said in the first post, I chose 150 degrees because it's one of the widely discussed numbers among shooters I've talked to and among online communities like this one. It also happens to be within the range of most of these indicator stickers.

Nobody has come out with empirical data supporting any specific number over another yet, so this is the best information available to work with so far.
 
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