Reloading 201: Other thoughts

Sep 9, 2011
119
0
16
34
South Dakota
#51
Re: Reloading 201: Other thoughts

First off THANK YOU for all of this.

I'm just starting to research what i need to get to start and i'm a little overwhelmed at the moment but i'll get through it.

What this really makes me want to do is buy everything you have recommended, put it in a big ol box and come to visit with gifts, cash, bribes of any kind to have u help a confused kid get started.

P.S. the book idea is great

Thanks again
 

datguy

Sergeant
Jan 21, 2012
259
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16
46
WA state
#52
Re: Reloading 201: Other thoughts

Thanks to this thread I have added the following:

Hornady Sure-Loc rings to my dies. These are great! They don't damage the die threads like set screws do!

Hornady Lock n Load Bushing Set. WOW! This makes my single stage press so much easier to use. I can leave dies setup in their bushing. Drop in the press and go. This is a must do!

Stoney Point (now Hornady) Comparator Set. I bought the Sinclair Intl version of this. I also suggest Sinclair's bump gauge inserts for measuring case length to the shoulder datum. Very happy with these. My ammo is headed in the direction of consistency and these really helped me.

Sinclair Chamber Length Gage. Bought this one too at the suggestion of this thread.

Now, I need to buy a nice set of .308 dies.

Thank you!
 

doc76251

Gunny Sergeant
Dec 5, 2003
1,748
6
0
Virginia Beach, VA
#53
Re: Reloading 201: Other thoughts

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dirtdigger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First off THANK YOU for all of this.

I'm just starting to research what i need to get to start and i'm a little overwhelmed at the moment but i'll get through it.

What this really makes me want to do is buy everything you have recommended, put it in a big ol box and come to visit with gifts, cash, bribes of any kind to have u help a confused kid get started.

P.S. the book idea is great

Thanks again </div></div>

Come on down
you wouldn't be the first and I dare say you won't be the last.

Cheers,

Doc
 
Sep 9, 2011
119
0
16
34
South Dakota
#54
Re: Reloading 201: Other thoughts

don't tempt me...

too bad i live half way across the damn country or i would...but i still might, beautiful area u live in. might be worth a drive.
 
Apr 11, 2012
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Jxn, MO
#56
Re: Reloading 201: Other thoughts

I'm convinced, from experience, that neck sizing is the way to go for bolt guns and a firm believer in the Lee collet neck sizing dies. Yes, one must FL size every now and then for chambering and extraction.
 

doc76251

Gunny Sergeant
Dec 5, 2003
1,748
6
0
Virginia Beach, VA
#57
Re: Reloading 201: Other thoughts

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltgunluvr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm convinced, from experience, that neck sizing is the way to go for bolt guns and a firm believer in the Lee collet neck sizing dies. Yes, one must FL size every now and then for chambering and extraction. </div></div>

I appreciate your experience, but........ this and Reloading 101 are geared to new reloaders and are based on what I do and the results that I have seen.

From Reloading 101:

<span style="font-weight: bold">First let me say that I Full Length (FL) resize ALL my brass EVERY time. I have never understood the concept of neck sizing brass. Nor do I agree with the idea that I am working the brass too much by full length sizing each time.

Here is why: If you only size the neck of the brass, the body will continue to grow as the brass springs back less and less after each firing. It makes sense to me that if the outside is growing, the inside (case volume) must be getting larger also. That means that the volume is increasing, which ultimately means you are getting less pressure each time you reload. Your velocities will get lower (or at least will be changing) after each reload. This does not lend itself to consistency in my eyes. Add to that is given that you will have to run your case through a FL die (or body die) after about 5 reloads anyway because it won’t fit into your chamber anymore. Full Length sizing it at that time means that you just squoze it back down to the minimum dimension all in one shot and have really worked the brass. More Consistent? Easier on brass? I can’t see it.
</span>

Consistency on the bench nets consistency on the target and I'd just as soon not add any more steps to the process. The net gains/losses I have seen with neck vs FL both properly set up are negligible down range. The knowledge that the round will go in and come out EVERY TIME is priceless.

There is some merit to the idea of using a Lee type collet die or a bushing die to allow the brass to expand to match the chamber AND THEN setting up your FL dies to minimize the squeeze and bump. That however does require an additional cost of those dies that you will only use 3 - 5 times for the life of the barrel.

As always YRMV, IMHO, etc....

Cheers,

Doc
 

alice

Private
May 3, 2012
16
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www.sencart.com
#59
Re: Reloading 201: Other thoughts

I agree with you on all accounts. I will say if you get too far out of spec it can affect your neck tensions but I have some questions as to how much really.
 
Feb 19, 2008
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Orem, Utah
#60
Re: Reloading 201: Other thoughts

Maybe a noob question -- but if brass from my .338 won't chamber back into the gun after a few firings, it that always due to the shoulder having moved forward, or can it be other things like case length, or thermal expansion of the body of the brass? My guess would be that it is probably the shoulder -- but reading all this has me thinking.

BTW -- huge thanks for these threads Doc!!!!!

I am starting to think my original thoughts on neck sizing only are a load of crap!

My reloading is my weakest link heretofore, I am hoping after reading all this and some thought that I can change that.

Dark
 
Nov 30, 2010
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San Antonio,TX
#61
Re: Reloading 201: Other thoughts

First off, GREAT guides!

Shot in the dark here...

I am getting back into reloading for my .308(7.62x51 Stamped) AR10 platform. Can the same steps in your guide be applied to this platform ie the headspacing(with a bolt you chamber the brass etc)? Also the mic dies?

A point to an AR-10 specific thread(if needed) would be helpful.
 

doc76251

Gunny Sergeant
Dec 5, 2003
1,748
6
0
Virginia Beach, VA
#62
Re: Reloading 201: Other thoughts

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedneckHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can the same steps in your guide be applied to this platform ie the headspacing(with a bolt you chamber the brass etc)? Also the mic dies?

A point to an AR-10 specific thread(if needed) would be helpful. </div></div>

The same rules apply for an AR10 as with a bolt gun. The difference obviously is in the ease of application. It is significantly more difficult to get good measurements from an AR platform that is still assembled than say just the barrel and bolt.

Strip the bolt from the carrier try and see if your fingers will allow you to manipulate the bolt inside the upper so that you can feel what "No tension" is. If you can then you can begin to play with brass until you find it starting to bind when turning the bolt. Measure it and that's your headspace, back it off a bit and set your dies. The same for the boolet length. I would hazard a guess that you will run out of mag length before you find the lead though.

For an AR type platform I generally do not go all the way down the road of finding head space unless I'm having issues. I may be leaving something on the table by neglecting it but so far I haven't noticed.

Cheers,

Doc
 

doc76251

Gunny Sergeant
Dec 5, 2003
1,748
6
0
Virginia Beach, VA
#63
Re: Reloading 201: Other thoughts

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darkphage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe a noob question -- but if brass from my .338 won't chamber back into the gun after a few firings, it that always due to the shoulder having moved forward, or can it be other things like case length, or thermal expansion of the body of the brass? My guess would be that it is probably the shoulder -- but reading all this has me thinking.

Dark </div></div>

If your neck sizing sooner or later you will have to F/L resize or body die the brass as it is expanded all around AND the shoulder needs to be pushed back.

I may have mentioned something similar in the part where I was ruminating about why I F/L resize only


Cheers,

Doc
 
Nov 30, 2010
69
0
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47
San Antonio,TX
#64
Re: Reloading 201: Other thoughts

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


Strip the bolt from the carrier try and see if your fingers will allow you to manipulate the bolt inside the upper so that you can feel what "No tension" is. If you can then you can begin to play with brass until you find it starting to bind when turning the bolt. Measure it and that's your headspace, back it off a bit and set your dies. The same for the boolet length. I would hazard a guess that you will run out of mag length before you find the lead though.

Cheers,

Doc </div></div>

Thanks for the info. I was also thinking that i could just seat the brass with my finger until it "held itself" while holding the upper vertical and giving it a light tap on the bench. Or pop it out with a cleaningrod with a swab tip on it.
 

doc76251

Gunny Sergeant
Dec 5, 2003
1,748
6
0
Virginia Beach, VA
#65
Re: Reloading 201: Other thoughts

You "could" do that but then you would never know if your bolt would lock up or if you were pushing too far. Head space is measured off the bolt face to the shoulder not the end of your finger.

Cheers,

Doc
 
Nov 30, 2010
69
0
0
47
San Antonio,TX
#66
Re: Reloading 201: Other thoughts

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You "could" do that but then you would never know if your bolt would lock up or if you were pushing too far. Head space is measured off the bolt face to the shoulder not the end of your finger.

Cheers,

Doc

</div></div>

Yeah, good point.

Bought my first Book today. The Lyman 49th Edition Reloading Handbook. The had the Nosler, Hornady and a few others but this seamed better to start with. There was a Hornady® Lock-N-Load® Ammo Plant 110 VT sitting on the display shelf at Bass Pro, looked like a Dalek on steroids, dang thing had more Gizmos than a TARDIS...
 
Nov 30, 2010
69
0
0
47
San Antonio,TX
#68
Re: Reloading 201: Other thoughts

The Layman book is some great reading. I have also watched bunch of YouTube videos and not one of them shows any type of "lubing "...

Has me a tad baffled.
 
#71
Doc,
First, thanks for the excellent advice.

I do, however, need to question one if your theories: that if the accuracy of chronographs. Did the accuracy rating say +/- 0.005 FPS, or +/- 0.005%??? This is a very important distinction, because if it said +/-0.005 FPS, then you would not multiply by your reading of say 2700 for your error margin. Only if it said +/-0.005%.

Could you clarify this, please?
Thanks for all the great information.
 
Feb 5, 2003
454
64
28
#72
Got one of the magnum collet dies on your recommendation. Sonofabitch - I've thrown out a lot of WM brass over the years that I probably didn't have to.
 
Apr 24, 2017
48
0
0
#74
I have a savage 10ba 6.5 creedmoor. From what I've read best results are coming from 140 grain bullet with 44 grains of powder. My lil booklet says 34 grains of powder for the max load. ( I just reloaded n shot my first 50 shells today) they done ok but wanting to follow what I'm reading is the preferred load. I'm NEW to all this. Wanting to stay safe. Thank you any info n help greatly appreciated
 

lash

Swamp Rat
Sep 28, 2012
3,522
1,227
113
59
Central Florida
#75
I have a savage 10ba 6.5 creedmoor. From what I've read best results are coming from 140 grain bullet with 44 grains of powder. My lil booklet says 34 grains of powder for the max load. ( I just reloaded n shot my first 50 shells today) they done ok but wanting to follow what I'm reading is the preferred load. I'm NEW to all this. Wanting to stay safe. Thank you any info n help greatly appreciated
What powder? Makes a big, big difference. FWIW 34g sounds low in most common 6.5 loads.
 

steve123

Lt. Colonel
Mar 16, 2008
7,737
477
83
Flagstaff, AZ
#76
I have a savage 10ba 6.5 creedmoor. From what I've read best results are coming from 140 grain bullet with 44 grains of powder. My lil booklet says 34 grains of powder for the max load. ( I just reloaded n shot my first 50 shells today) they done ok but wanting to follow what I'm reading is the preferred load. I'm NEW to all this. Wanting to stay safe. Thank you any info n help greatly appreciated
Google the term "ladder testing". You can find a load inside of 15 shots if you do it correctly.

BTW, I'd try H4831SC. It's readily available and provides full load density.