Recoil changing after 1-2 shots of perfect recoil management

TheGerman

Oberleutnant
Jan 25, 2010
3,892
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#1
Has been driving me nuts as to what I'm doing to cause this.

Get in position behind rifle, everything lined up, good passive (dead weight) tension loading the gun/bipod, NPA, adjusting the hips and upper body to get on target, everything is where it needs to be.

Fire first round, recoils back onto almost exactly where my 1 inch paster is on the target.

Follow through, work the bolt.

Fire second round. Almost the exact same recoil as shot #1 and the reticle is almost exactly on the same spot of the 1 inch paster again.

Follow through, work bolt.

Third round. Groups tightly with shots 1 and 2, but now the reticle is 3-4 inches directly to the 3 o clock right.

Follow through, adjust gun, NPA, work bolt.

Fourth round. Groups with shots 1-3, still recoiling to the 3 o clock right.

Nothing is changing on me, at least as far as what I can notice, between any of these shots other than working the bolt. usually after 2-4 shots, SOMETHING starts making the recoil management take a shit, albeit consistently to the 2 to 3 o clock each time. I'm not moving, I'm not lifting my head, I'm not moving my head/face, I'm not adjusting my body, nothing.

What causes 1-3 rounds to be basically perfect shots and then the recoil starts going to shit after?
 
Likes: m1match
Feb 13, 2017
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#2
You should tape yourself. I’m willing to bet through the recoil either yoir relaxing more or slight fatigue in the shoulder.

You are definitely changing something up and my guess it’s shoulder or pressure on the firing hand.
 

TheGerman

Oberleutnant
Jan 25, 2010
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#3
You should tape yourself. I’m willing to bet through the recoil either yoir relaxing more or slight fatigue in the shoulder.

You are definitely changing something up and my guess it’s shoulder or pressure on the firing hand.
I don't think there should be fatigue as its all passive forward pressure, not muscle use, if that makes sense.

Only thing I can think of, is what you mentioned, in that after cycling the bolt I'm not pulling back as much on the lower 3 fingers on the grip.

Something has to be moving. If it were just grip, it would fix itself once the grip was 'fixed' Instead, its kind of a thing where its fine until it goes to shit, and once it goes to shit there's no fixing it until you break the position.
 
Feb 13, 2017
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#4
Yea fatigue maybe wasn’t the right work more like relaxing more maybe or not putting the exact amount of pressure into the gun.

I find that unless I dig my bipod in the ground or have straps that it’s constanly slightly moving forward and I have to move to load it back up.
 
Likes: Apnea

Apnea

learning
Sep 17, 2017
232
68
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CA
#5
What kind of surface? Bipod?

I'm thinking wandering feet (as opposed to the usual hopping discussion). I've noticed instances where my rubber feet tend to wander a bit and the legs are no longer square to target, but it takes more than 2 shots in my case. I'm not surehot much harm it does but going to tryHawk Hill feet and see if it helps me.
 
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TheGerman

Oberleutnant
Jan 25, 2010
3,892
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#6
What kind of surface? Bipod?
Uneven as fuck desert, laying in the hard sand/rocks.

I think an issue may be that the bipod never stays the same as the packed sand its in gives way. There's times where even with 100% correct form, the bipod won't grab anything and will just slide forward causing slack in the system.
 
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FatBoy

Chris Hayes, Nashville TN
Jul 29, 2001
806
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Nashville, Tennessee
#7
I have the same issue when I load the bipod in sand. the barrel torque moves the POA to the right once the "holes" the bipod feet are in start to open up or collapse. I don't shoot for groups anymore, so I just adjust NPA and drive on.
 
Likes: MarinePMI

Stpilot12

Killed a guy with a Trident...
Jul 18, 2012
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Northern Crappyfornia
#8
Uneven as fuck desert, laying in the hard sand/rocks.

I think an issue may be that the bipod never stays the same as the packed sand its in gives way. There's times where even with 100% correct form, the bipod won't grab anything and will just slide forward causing slack in the system.
Good possibility this is it.. Bipod dancing a little more each shot on shitty ground. Do an experiment, load the bipod against something that cant move.
 
Likes: FatBoy

TheGerman

Oberleutnant
Jan 25, 2010
3,892
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#9
I have the same issue when I load the bipod in sand. the barrel torque moves the POA to the right once the "holes" the bipod feet are in start to open up or collapse. I don't shoot for groups anymore, so I just adjust NPA and drive on.
I have the same issue when I load the bipod in sand. the barrel torque moves the POA to the right once the "holes" the bipod feet are in start to open up or collapse. I don't shoot for groups anymore, so I just adjust NPA and drive on.
Yep, thats basically it. Almost to the exact same spot to the 3 o clock once it gets going.
 

FatBoy

Chris Hayes, Nashville TN
Jul 29, 2001
806
239
43
44
Nashville, Tennessee
#10
Yep, thats basically it. Almost to the exact same spot to the 3 o clock once it gets going.
I have considered trying a left hand twist barrel to see if that will help, but honesty I just move out to further steel and fix NPA. Out to 1k, on IPSC sized steel (even half sized IPSC with the 300wm) I can get away with a lot of form issues with the bipod. Once I go past 1k, I need all my shit in one sock every shot. I'm sure there are feet, or pads, etc we can use to negate the legs digging in but I won't field carry that shit so I don't train with it.
 
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j-huskey

Jafo / Instigator !
Jul 27, 2001
1,140
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#11
To prove the theory..... there must be constants (of consistency.... ).
A bipod digging into sand under recoil, and then affecting the shooters "movements, ie, bipod wont hold - his words), is a clear case of inconsistency of the required constant to both prove the theory and identify the problem.
Eliminate the inconsistency in a practice session with a piece of 2x12 spiked to the sand, then follow Chris' advice of adjusting npa for each shots changing condition.
Every shot should be a "first shot", properly adjusted for.
This phenomenon described by Deutscheman is not new.
 
Mar 7, 2018
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Arizona
#12
If it is a Harris bipod, loading is more mental than anything. Atlas and similar have slack.

I have the same problem in the desert. I throw a piece of canvas, rifle bag, etc under bipods to avoid the digging bipod excess. But, even that can cause issues. Sometimes I shoot off my pack.

It is different than bipod, but at least it is more consistent than a gravel sand and rock river bottom.
 

gunsnjeeps

Retired Swab Jockey
Dec 15, 2009
682
12
18
Norfolk, Va
#13
I'll take a swag and say it is the result of recoil. After a couple of shoots everything is just a little different, a hair here and a hair there, and it shows up in the group.
 
Feb 20, 2017
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SE Florida
#14
Just another wild ass guess but, could your clothing be an issue? Tee shirt is ideal or at least just a single layer with no padding. The more layers can bunch up and pack during recoil and effect your NPA. They can do this without you feeling it. I had trouble with a shooting vest doing that to me when I shot a bunch of trap. 25 rounds of 12 gauge in <5 minutes will pack padding down and change the fit of the gun. It is subtle but there.
 
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