Question on prone shooting position

May 18, 2009
1,437
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Joliet, IL
Re: Question on prone shooting position

go to a appleseed, it is not bipod shooting but 90% of it applies, besides you should also learn positions, mag change, rapid aimed fire etc, best deal is a whole week for 200$ I have never shot as well as I was by the end of that week
 
Jun 10, 2004
2,842
1
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Louisville, Kentucky
Re: Question on prone shooting position

I have an impression about Appleseed Project training, it seems to be similar to NRA First Steps, and the Boy Scout Rifle Shooting Merit Badge course. The effectiveness of these is not particularly dependent on trainer experience. In fact, I know of folks who took the Appleseed course and upon completion, began teaching it. As long as these trainers stick to the script I think these programs serve the market for basic marksmanship training; however, unless the trainer knows enough about good shooting to provide good shooter/target analysis, showing students how to properly trouble-shoot their errors, graduates may not have the knowledge to reach higher plateaus from independent practice. I'm not doggin' these volunteers. I commend them for their selfless involvement. But, it does appear all of these curriculums could be improved with the addition of a session on shooter/target analysis, designed so as not to rely on what the trainer may already know about the matter.
 
Nov 20, 2010
193
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16
53
Madison,Mississippi
www.tacmt.com
Re: Question on prone shooting position

Is there a tolerance of <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">any</span></span> side to side ajustment with your non firing hand when pinching the rear bag? Say if you have your natural point of aim with in say 1 moa?

Thanks
 
Jun 10, 2004
2,842
1
0
Louisville, Kentucky
Re: Question on prone shooting position

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Strip Poker 388</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a tolerance of <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">any</span></span> side to side ajustment with your non firing hand when pinching the rear bag? Say if you have your natural point of aim with in say 1 moa?

Thanks
</div></div>

Alignment is established without consideration for hold; thereafter, the NPA is adjusted to get the desired hold. The non-firing hand should not be used to steer sight to target.
 

9H_Cracka

Gunny Sergeant
Mar 15, 2005
2,806
0
0
WAY off base (COS CO)
Re: Question on prone shooting position

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The non-firing hand should not be used to steer sight to target. </div></div>

The non-firing hand is most certainly used to steer the sight to the target in a bipod and bag scenario.

Just make sure the body is re-aligned and positioned to go with the new butt placement and you'll be good.
 
Jun 10, 2004
2,842
1
0
Louisville, Kentucky
Re: Question on prone shooting position

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The non-firing hand should not be used to steer sight to target. </div></div>

The non-firing hand is most certainly used to steer the sight to the target in a bipod and bag scenario.

Just make sure the body is re-aligned and positioned to go with the new butt placement and you'll be good.</div></div>

I'm using the word steer to describe a target/reticle relationship produced and maintained by muscular tension as opposed to one maintained by bone. This is not desirable for a multitude of reasons. What is desirable is to exert no more tension over the rifle than necessary to control it until recoil has subsided.
 
Sep 5, 2010
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West Harrison, Indiana
Re: Question on prone shooting position

I was able to get out to the range yesterday and it was one of the first days this year that I was able to shoot in just a T-shirt. I noticed that when I got my NPA and then concentrated on putting the exact same pressure on the rifle each time, I got much more consistent results. When I tried to repeat my cheek, shoulder and firing hand pressure, I started shooting at or just below a 1/2 MOA. I've been shooting just over a 1/2 MOA so that's a good improvement. It's a lot easier to feel when you're not so bundled up.

I'm surprised that I hadn't noticed this before. I guess that it only takes a slight bit of pressure difference to cause the recoil to bounce be rifle off target before the bullet exits the barrel. I can't wait to go try it again.
 

KJMOC

Private
May 6, 2011
0
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34
TN
Re: Question on prone shooting position

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This business of develping a hold is part of why a shooter should limit the number of firearms they try to master. Familiarity with that firearm, in all its aspects, is what leads to precision with that firearm.

Greg </div></div>

Quoted for truth. This applies to many things beyond firearms as well.

I've recently taken a General Sherman approach to clutter in my life spanning from crap in my gun safe to crap in my kitchen. I decided on 1 platform per caliber I shoot and limited total calibers to 4, including pistol and shotgun. I've sold quite a few things in this process and feel great about it as it's allowed me to focus on getting things dialed in. I recently decided to get out of the bolt action game and streamline even further by going with an AR pattern 308 as I shoot 223 from an AR.

May not work for some and a few of my buddies think I'm crazy for selling any weapon but it's been great for me.
 

Sterling Shooter

Gunny Sergeant
Jun 10, 2004
2,842
1
0
Louisville, Kentucky
Re: Question on prone shooting position

I have no way of knowing if you're crazy; but, I do wonder why folks impose rules upon themselves, like limiting their indulgence. Perhaps, it's a conflict between order and chaos.
 

KJMOC

Private
May 6, 2011
0
0
0
34
TN
Re: Question on prone shooting position

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have no way of knowing if you're crazy; but, I do wonder why folks impose rules upon themselves, like limiting their indulgence. Perhaps, it's a conflict between order and chaos. </div></div>

Having 20 of an item no one could possibly ever need more than 1 or 2 of starts getting in the way of the enjoyment of said item, in my experience at least.

I like order and used to envy people who had it. I then realized, it's easy to have order when you don't have 30 flat head screw drivers of the same size stashed all around the house. You could say, just put them in one big tool box but thats a game that never ends. The behavior is what I needed adjusted.

My father was a pack-rat and even in his advanced age, he's never used 95% of the crap he has stored. Just don't want to end up that way. Furthermore, I have 2 children I don't want to pass that habit/tendency down too.

Most importantly, as Greg said, I want to be the master of my weapons. Easy to do with a reasonable number, for me at least.
 
Mar 3, 2011
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Alaska
Re: Question on prone shooting position

I'd like to make a few comments on prone shooting. I shoot NRA across-the-course, mostly with a space gun these days because I have a hard time seeing the front sight on a Service Rifle, Mid-Range Prone and Long Range, both using a coat and sling. I learned to shoot in 1959 at Ft Benning, GA, and we had something like 50 hours of marksmanship training before we went to the range and fired the M1's. We were taught the prone position fireing from an angle, with the right leg cocked (the lefty's were made to fire right handed). The reason we used that position was because we normally were fireing from behind something, and if you got behind your rifle straight, part of you was sticking out. We were taught to always use your sling, from all positions, getting into the sling if you could and using the hasty sling if you couldn't. Our slings were normally kept adjusted to the hasty lenght. I shoot Mid-Range and Long Distance using a 6.5X20 power scope and always use it at the higher power, only adjusting down for mirage, because I aim for the smallest point that I can see, usually the X in the X-ring. I have some trouble with pulse, these days, because I have a mechanical heart valve, but you just learn to adjust for things. I took second, out of 12, at a Mid-Range match, on Sunday, but had the highest X count, so I seem to be doing OK.
 
Jun 10, 2004
2,842
1
0
Louisville, Kentucky
Re: Question on prone shooting position

I don't know how old you are but I salute you for your continued pursuit in spite of obstacles. For me, glaucoma has meant learning how to shoot from the non-dominate eye, as well as my other shoulder. Although I'm still shooting good prone scores with Service Rifle, my groups are not yet the bug hole groups I had come to expect from my now defunct left eye, left shoulder.
 
Nov 20, 2010
193
0
16
53
Madison,Mississippi
www.tacmt.com
Re: Question on prone shooting position

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The non-firing hand should not be used to steer sight to target. </div></div>

The non-firing hand is most certainly used to steer the sight to the target in a bipod and bag scenario.

Just make sure the body is re-aligned and positioned to go with the new butt placement and you'll be good.</div></div>

I'm using the word steer to describe a target/reticle relationship produced and maintained by muscular tension as opposed to one maintained by bone. This is not desirable for a multitude of reasons. What is desirable is to exert no more tension over the rifle than necessary to control it until recoil has subsided. </div></div>

So if I have my crosshair/Dot with in a 1 1/2 inchs of the center of target that has a 1 inch round circle I should be moving the front of the rifle on the bipod and then realigning with my body? not the rear bag?

Ive been just squeezing the rear v bag making it align the last 1inch from side to side then the up and down.Using my thumb and fore finger on the stock and palm and 3 other fingers squezzing the bag.Also my hand has tension/pressure from squeezing the bag to hold it on the center of the paper target.Thanks for the sugestions,just trying to learn being Im new.
Rob

here a pick of my bag http://www.snipershide.com/forum/gallery/27/full/8409.jpg
 
Nov 26, 2011
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68
Florence, Alabama
Re: Question on prone shooting position

I am tryng to learn the prone postion but have trouble with the neck tension (neck problems). Is there any photos available that show ways to eliminate neck tension? Also would using a chest support be any help and allowed in F-open class prone shooting. I read here on this thread of one guy using a small sand bag beneath his chest.
 
Jan 9, 2011
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43
Idaho
Re: Question on prone shooting position

When I have neck tension it is usually because I am craning my neck to get a good sight picture. I have found I can reduce pretty much all neck tension when I get the proper cheek weld, for me this is about 1/2" under my cheek. You may also have your bipod too low.
 

Graham

Generalissimo
Oct 30, 2007
49,821
8
0
Michigan
Re: Question on prone shooting position

There should not be any neck tension. You should be relaxed behind the rifle. Fit the stock properly. Placing a bag under your chest won't help.
 
Jan 3, 2012
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0
0
29
CenTex
Re: Question on prone shooting position

You can easily find a comfortable position and modify it to what best suits you. keep in mind, everyone is different and there is no "Right" for everyone. Take some time in getting to know a position, and think about how to turn it into a more stable one; ie bone support, how comfortable it is, ankles flat - toes out, directly behind the rifle, If firing from pack or bipod (use non firing hand to support buttstock to shoulder), if firing in prone unsupported (no rifle rest or bipod) bring elbows in to form an equilateral triangle from the gun to the ground or look up a hawkins firing position, always maintain a positive control of the weapon by having a good follow-thru (hold the trigger to the rear after firing). hopefully that helps a little bit, if you want - research these Army FM's on google or PM me an Email addy and what you want.

Army Field Manuals applicable:
FM 3-22.9 (Basic Rifle Marksmanship)
FM 23-10 (Sniper Training)
 
Jan 3, 2012
103
0
0
29
CenTex
Re: Question on prone shooting position

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrgator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am tryng to learn the prone postion but have trouble with the neck tension (neck problems). Is there any photos available that show ways to eliminate neck tension? Also would using a chest support be any help and allowed in F-open class prone shooting. I read here on this thread of one guy using a small sand bag beneath his chest. </div></div>

using a sandbag is a horrible idea. you want your body to be as low to the ground as possible for the most comfortable position to maintain accuracy.

if you have neck problems, try this out...

your cheek bone should rest on your buttstock, all of your head's weight should rest on it. if not, you want to do everything you can to reduce using any muscle in your body unless you absolutely have to (including your neck). If it hurts your cheek tape a foam pad to it. if your rifle is too high, you'll know by the unnatural feel of arching up to the rifle. if its too low, you'll feel your head hanging to the rifle. attempt to use anything other than a bipod to help determine what the right height is for you.

Hope that works too
 

Sterling Shooter

Gunny Sergeant
Jun 10, 2004
2,842
1
0
Louisville, Kentucky
Re: Question on prone shooting position

Try building your position without sandbag or bipod support; and, bring the stock to the head rather than head to stock. From this bone supported position you'll have an idea for what the position should be like when accomodated by sandbag or bipod.
 
Sep 13, 2011
158
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16
32
NC
Re: Question on prone shooting position

I haven't read through the whole thread so I apologize if I'm repeating anything. If your POA is off to the left/right or whereever after the shot is fired your body position behind the rifle could be just fine. Sounds to me like a sound of muscling the gun onto tgt. Try getting behind the gun in the best (tightest) position possible and Close your eyes and relax. Look back through the scope to see where the reticle is. If its not on tgt then your "Natural" point of aim is off. Adjust the rifle and your body do everything again until you can let go of the rifle close your eyes and then look back and see the reticle on the tgt. It's all about Natual point of aim and muscle relaxation.
 
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